Back up cam and TPMS. Ideas please!

[jollyrogr]

1 hour ago, Jack Mayer said:

I'm in the middle of a similar project. So are you going to add an NVR?  Which cameras are you intending to use? I'm using a Samsung S2 8.0 for display in the truck. 

I've been running a 4TB NAS for a few years in my rig and it works well....no drive issues.

I think Synology (or some NAS models anyway) have built-in NVR capability. I wouldn't bother with a raid setup for NVR or use SSD either. 

[Jack Mayer]

1 hour ago, jollyrogr said:

I think Synology (or some NAS models anyway) have built-in NVR capability. I wouldn't bother with a raid setup for NVR or use SSD either. 

It depends...You can record to the NAS, but you have to have a way to manage the video streams coming in. You  can software manage from the NAS , but you have to support multi-channel data collection somehow. There are various ways, but a NVR is pretty easy and convenient, centralizes things, allows for POE injection inbuilt, etc. Most NVR  will accept the NAS as a storage device, though. It depends somewhat on what you want to do and stress in your network, though.

[jollyrogr]

https://www.qnap.com/solution/surveillance-station/en-us/

 

[Jack Mayer]

12 hours ago, jollyrogr said:

https://www.qnap.com/solution/surveillance-station/en-us/

 

Yes, very good software - I've used it. Not sure it is as well suited for truck/RV use because of licensing costs. But again, it depends on what you need/want. In some senses you do get what you pay for....it is just that most of the features/functions of SS5.1 are not really applicable to the truck/trailer scenario. 

While this seems like a simple problem to solve, getting the right combination of hardware/software that optimizes the cost/function for an RV application is not simple. There are many tradeoffs. Thus the prototyping efforts I'm doing now, with various combos of hw/sw.

[jollyrogr]

I thought the software came with the hardware? You have to pay a license on top of overpriced hardware? That stinks. 

I use open source for everything but I posted that link thinking it would be a simpler solution for most folks. 

[ALLOY]

22 hours ago, Jack Mayer said:

I'm in the middle of a similar project. So are you going to add an NVR?  Which cameras are you intending to use? I'm using a Samsung S2 8.0 for display in the truck. 

I've been running a 4TB NAS for a few years in my rig and it works well....no drive issues.

No NVR.  Only planning on recording 4 (front sides and back) cameras.

Cameras will use a POE switch/router.

Display(s) will be IPad or Samsung streaming to the box. With the limited amount of dash (also have VHF, CB, IPad for GPS mapping for travel on logging roads) in the pick up so we may spit the cameras up onto 2 smaller displays around the dash/visor.

For cameras it will be Vivotek, Hanwha, Panasonic, ACTi.  To start I may put up any network camera that has a RG45 connector to make things easy...... Vivotek is coming out with a mobile camera that has IR that I'm waiting to look at. If I works OK then IR LEDs can be added to increase night vision.

http://www.vivotek.com/md8565-n/#views:view=jplist-grid-view

Thanks for the info on the NAS.   I've been wondering about HDD vibration thus the SSD consideration.

[Refuzn-To-Grow-Up]

https://www.costco.com/Night-Owl-8-Channel-3MP-Extreme-HD-DVR-1TB%2c-4-3MP-Wired-Infrared-Camera-Security-System.product.100362562.html

I have a 16 channel (16 cameras) security system . . . . almost installed.  So, I cannot tell you how it works. 

I will be using a Gechic monitor.  I use this monitor for my GPS system and it is fantastic!  But, it is pricey.

https://www.gechic.com/

So many fun projects and so little time . . . . sigh!

[Jack Mayer]

21 hours ago, J-T said:

Thanks for the info on the NAS.   I've been wondering about HDD vibration thus the SSD consideration.

I've had no real issue with HDD in my trucks for the past 13 years. But I'm in an HDT.  SSD will always be better if you can afford it, though. 

Be aware that POE switches/routers using the af standard may or may not drive various cameras. You will just have to try it and see. My experience is that even cameras that state af are not always driven by af switches. Brand matching is a factor. But it is always easy to add a specific injector for a camera that does not work with your switch.

[lockmup68]

I'm running a Drobo5N2 (24 terabyte) nowadays. Seems to be more reliable and better price point than my old ReadyNAS and Synology units. Built in UPS allows it to shut down properly if you forget to power off properly, even without full UPS/inverter/battery system. Like Jack said, SSD is nice, but expensive and you don't have the storage capability. 

You can use pretty much any camera system and simply point storage to any NAS box that supports SMB/CIFS. If running a windows box, this is free and works well.

https://www.ispyconnect.com/  is easy to configure

[Refuzn-To-Grow-Up]

4 hours ago, lockmup68 said:

I'm running a Drobo5N2 (24 terabyte) nowadays. Seems to be more reliable and better price point than my old ReadyNAS and Synology units. Built in UPS allows it to shut down properly if you forget to power off properly, even without full UPS/inverter/battery system. Like Jack said, SSD is nice, but expensive and you don't have the storage capability. 

You can use pretty much any camera system and simply point storage to any NAS box that supports SMB/CIFS. If running a windows box, this is free and works well.

https://www.ispyconnect.com/  is easy to configure

Sounds impressive!  But not everyone is at your level of knowledge.  Would you restate in layman's language, for folks like me, who are simple minded?

[Jack Mayer]

16 hours ago, lockmup68 said:

I'm running a Drobo5N2 (24 terabyte) nowadays. Seems to be more reliable and better price point than my old ReadyNAS and Synology units. Built in UPS allows it to shut down properly if you forget to power off properly, even without full UPS/inverter/battery system. Like Jack said, SSD is nice, but expensive and you don't have the storage capability. 

You can use pretty much any camera system and simply point storage to any NAS box that supports SMB/CIFS. If running a windows box, this is free and works well.

https://www.ispyconnect.com/  is easy to configure

I'm not using ispy (yet) but will likely move to it soon. It does have a decent reputation. Putting together a system that can take a wide variety of cameras should be easy, but it is not (really). There are many differences in "standard" cameras that conflict with software-driven systems. 

[lockmup68]

11 hours ago, Jack Mayer said:

I'm not using ispy (yet) but will likely move to it soon. It does have a decent reputation. Putting together a system that can take a wide variety of cameras should be easy, but it is not (really). There are many differences in "standard" cameras that conflict with software-driven systems. 

Agree, not having a true standard in the security camera industry it is hard to figure out what does and does not work. However, SMB/CIFS is pretty much the standard for years for the communication aspect, so hopefully, the bulk of the popular camera systems nowadays should support those basic communication protocols. 

Looking forward to speaking with you further about your system at the rally. I had been ponderizing about implementing a similar setup for a while, glad brighter minds are taking on the challenge. I have a hard enough time turning the TV on.

 

[lockmup68]

23 hours ago, Refuzn-To-Grow-Up said:

Sounds impressive!  But not everyone is at your level of knowledge.  Would you restate in layman's language, for folks like me, who are simple minded?

Happy to help. Sorry, I get carried away with acronyms and lingo.

NAS=network attached storage; think of a NAS as one HUGE hard drive in your computer. The difference from a single hard drive in your computer to a NAS is that every device on your personal network can access this big hard drive (NAS):  phones, computers, tablets, TVs, security camera systems, etc. 

So for example, I have my NAS box (Drobo is the manufacturer name, 5N2 is the model number), setup for my entire media collection, backup for all computers, phones, cameras, etc. To simplify, I created directories like Media, Photos, Documents, Personal, Work, etc., whatever you want to create, and store like things in the same location. Under media, you can have TV Shows, Movies, Home Movies, etc. I subscribe to various services and download media for offline viewing. This all gets stored on my personal DVR which uses the NAS box as storage.

To break it down further, all of my laptops (mac and windows) backup to this HUGE harddrive (NAS). So when our phones get too full of pictures, I not only back them up to the cloud, but also back up to the NAS. If you have digital cameras, copy all the photos to the Photos directory on the NAS, all of your music library is backed up on the NAS, etc. 

The NAS is a fully redundant system, so if one or two hard drives fail, you do not lose any of your data like you would if the hard drive failed on your laptop for example and it was not backed up. If a drive fails in the NAS, you simply replace that drive and the NAS will reformat and copy all the data back to that drive automatically.

What we were discussing is using the NAS box as storage for the security camera system. IE, connecting the security camera system directly to this HUGE hard drive, versus having a separate, much smaller hard drive or special system typically included with the security camera system. Since the NAS is on the network, you only have to connect the cameras to your network and then they can all "see" the storage space. And like Jack mentioned, then your connection to the cameras are simple, cheap network cables (CAT5/6) versus expensive, proprietary cables like the voyager, and can cam use. The IP cameras are also much cheaper (Internet protocol=IP). By using network cabling and a software solution like ispy, you can use a windows box to run your security cameras versus buying a complete security camera system. It does mean having a windows or mac (not supported by ispy) machine running all the time to run the cameras, but you can get them cheap and very small form factor now, and they draw very little power. 

Before I heard that Jack was already working on this, I was thinking about trying to utilize a Raspberry PI or PC on a USB stick to run open source security camera software to IP cameras. (Raspberry PI is a $25 mini computer, and the USB stick PC is the same thing, but plugs into a USB port, think of it like the Roku USB stick or GooglePlay stick that you plug into the back of your TV. Just a tiny computer that connects to USB or HDMI ports for power and connects to the network via wire or over wifi.) 

So that is a super long winded answer to your short question of trying to spell it out in layman's terms. Did I thoroughly confuse everyone now? 

 

[Refuzn-To-Grow-Up]

To lockmup68:  No you did not confuse me.  You opened up a whole new world.  Thank you.  So many fun projects and so little time, sigh!

[Jack Mayer]

I've also thought of using Arduino or Raspberry Pi or other small form factor computer to host this system. But instead I decided that for starters I'd use an NVR (Network Video Recorder - a specialized device like a DVR that has computer logic and a hard drive to store camera images). This is a pre built device with hardware and software that can manage the camera images. It also powers the cameras with POE (Power over Ethernet). Some have inbuilt wifi as well. Mine does not but I use a $20 Access Point to provide wifi - the backhaul to the Internet being provided with an ATT Mobley. The wifi image(s) then are viewed on a Samsung 8" tablet embedded on the dash, as previously mentioned.

Everything is a tradeoff, and what I get by doing it this way is a very flexible data handling  solution for the truck that can be easily removed. But it does require the specialized NVR behind it. (actually, you could also do it with the NAS).

I also use a NAS as described above, but I'm not mixing these systems at this point since this is a prototyping effort. My NAS also contains system images of all my computers, so I can restore a complete drive image from the network.

BTW, the biggest issue I'm having is finding appropriate IP cameras - right form factor for truck mounting, and 1080p. 

[pethier]

Went cheap on the backup camera.  Peak brand, off the rack.  50 dollars on one-day sale at NAPA. 

1992 Damon pusher had inoperative (original?) wired backup camera system.  Tossed both monitor and camera.

Camera needs 12 volts.  Monitor needs 12 volts.  Image data is wireless.

Original monitor was mounted to bottom of the enclosure for the original TV set.  Found the 12-volt wire.  Live when ignition switch is on. 

Original camera was mounted high on back of coach. 

Found 4 conductors that appeared at both ends.  Two were the grounded sheath and data conductors.  Tied them together and used them from the ground at both camera and monitor.  Two were floating.  I tied them together and to power in for the camera, power in for the monitor, and the 12-volt power line I had identified at the monitor end.

Now my system goes on whenever the ignition is on. 

Deadheading, backing up is easy with combo of side mirrors and camera.  Hooking up trailer is easy.  Jacknife is easy when turning left; always can see daylight between coach and trailer.  Jacknife when turning right is trickier; more-difficult to tell when coach ladder is getting too close to trailer.

 

 

 

[Jack Mayer]

There are certainly inexpensive rear view systems out there. I've got a $10 camera and a $25 four inch monitor that are "usable". They are wired. I've used them in some experimental things on a skidloader. They work just fine, but only have in the 400 TV line resolution.....not very good. But good enough for certain things. Direct from China. Do not work well in cold. 

So you can go from that solution, to a Voyager solution in analog format (the Voyager pretty much tops out the analog world). And then step up to all digital with the IP cameras and pay about the same as a Voyager system.....but you have to put it together yourself (well, at least until I get done all this and package a "system").

There are literally hundreds of low cost analog systems out there. And for a simple one-purpose backup solution they can work quite well. 

[TheLongWayHome]

Jack,

Here is a very good outside (IP68) vehicle 2MP (1080P 30fps) with IR, metal side-mount camera, but it will cost you (search but it's up in the $400 range)!

http://overseas.hikvision.com//uploadfile/image/10421_CUserswuhui5@hikvision.comDesktopNewfolderDatasheetofDS2CD6520ETI(O).pdf

We should talk about your systems specs and target price point, as I have some thoughts on a NVR system for mobile usage.

 

[ALLOY]

Couldn't justify spending more on SSD than I did on 8,000lbs IS axles so the Synology NAS is getting 4 x 4TB WD RED drives.

Vivotek is sending a loaner camera for testing. The camera meets the EN standards for railway rolling stock. 

[lockmup68]

On 8/16/2017 at 0:15 PM, J-T said:

Couldn't justify spending more on SSD than I did on 8,000lbs IS axles so the Synology NAS is getting 4 x 4TB WD RED drives.

Vivotek is sending a loaner camera for testing. The camera meets the EN standards for railway rolling stock. 

good luck with the WD drives. I moved to Seagate Barracuda's after several WD failures.

[ALLOY]

10 hours ago, lockmup68 said:

good luck with the WD drives. I moved to Seagate Barracuda's after several WD failures.

What size drives / what application?

[lockmup68]

On 8/23/2017 at 10:20 AM, J-T said:

What size drives / what application?

WD Reds, 2TB and 4TB in a ReadyNAS 416. Amazon kept replacing them, but I was tired of the failures. Had 6 drives in 12 months.

[ALLOY]

23 hours ago, lockmup68 said:

WD Reds, 2TB and 4TB in a ReadyNAS 416. Amazon kept replacing them, but I was tired of the failures. Had 6 drives in 12 months.

Oh Oh!

[Sculptor]

On August 3, 2017 at 9:18 AM, Jack Mayer said:

BTW, the biggest issue I'm having is finding appropriate IP cameras - right form factor for truck mounting, and 1080p. 

I've been saving this research for a later time when I am ready for it.  But one question I have is about outdoor weatherproof cameras.  Can someone please share a link or 2 for researching HDT appropriate cameras?  I'm in no hurry just yet.  Thanks. 

[Mark and Dale Bruss]

After going thru some cameras, I found weatherproof is a useless rating.  Waterproof is what you want.  Even then, rain protection is recommended.