No Generator Power?

[homelesshartshorns]

When I start the Generator, it runs fine but there is no power to the rig! If I plug into shower power the power is charging the batteries, ok! And when engine is running also charging is happing on the batteries! Is this telling me I have a Transfer Switch not working?

[Kirk W]

5 minutes ago, homelesshartshorns said:

If I plug into shower power the power is charging the batteries,

If your generator is an Onan the fact that it keeps running tells us that it is generating 120V. If it has worked in the past but now does not that probably means the transfer device (ATS) is likely the problem but one needs to trace power with a volt/ohm meter to be sure. An Onan also has a circuit breaker on the generator so if you have not tried opening and closing that (with the generator not running) you should do so as that would cause the same problem. If your generator is not Onan you should still check for that circuit breaker as it is probably there. 

Edited December 10, 2022 by Kirk W

[Chad Heiser]

If the generator runs, but there is no power it has to be one of three things - Breaker, ATS or loose connection between the gen and the ATS.  I would start by checking the breaker(s) on the generator itself.  Turn them off and back on again to reset them.  If this doesn't solve the problem, check the AC wiring between the generator and the ATS.  There is typically a junction box between the two components and the connections inside that junction box can come loos.  Most manufacturers just use twist on wire connectors for the connections in the junction box and they can work loose over time.  If the wiring is all good, then it is time to check the ATS.  Open up the ATS and put a meter on the generator input.  If power is there, but doesn't cross the contacts to the ATS output, then the ATS has failed and needs to be replaced.

[homelesshartshorns]

Yes, and Owen and I did flip the two breakers on the unit. Is it a thing to trip those breakers when the genset is off?

[Kirk W]

3 hours ago, homelesshartshorns said:

Is it a thing to trip those breakers when the genset is off?

That shouldn't matter but it just prevents any arcing that might happen if it was running but the circuit breakers will reset either way.  Have you taken any readings with your meter?

 

[homelesshartshorns]

9 hours ago, Kirk W said:

That shouldn't matter but it just prevents any arcing that might happen if it was running but the circuit breakers will reset either way.  Have you taken any readings with your meter?

 

No readings with meter. I am thing the ATS is in the elect bay! It is raining today and will try to open this up and take a look for burnt wires or loose connections. Also will see if I can check the brakers on the genset. 

[oldjohnt]

Good morning, in fifty years of RV ownership and several different brands of gensets and ATS's, Ive encountered that problem and agree with the other fine gents.  Here are the five most common causes I encountered:

1) ATS isnt switching...........There can be a built in delay from the time  the genset starts until the actual switching takes place..........On some faulty AT switches if you shut them down and restart it may work the next time, try that. Check alllllllllll connections inside the ATS box

2) The onboard circuit breakers on the genset are tripped....

3) Theres a bad or loose or open connection somewhere between the gensets output and the panel. Look in junction boxes and check wire nuts and connections !!! 

4) If theres no ATS but instead the power cord plugs into a genny fed receptacle, insure theres genny power to the box receptacle and the plug is good and fully/firmly in place.

5) The Genset itself is bad it may be a control circuit board problem grrrrrrrrrrrr expensive 

 Take a volt meter and one at a time see where there is (if any) power and where it stops.

 Start at gennys output and to the ATS input (look for a junction box open it and check connections and wire nuts etc) ,,,,,,,,,Start genny and see if ATS actually switches  (wont until genny products voltage!!!) and if so theres power on its output,,,,,,,,,see if theres power to the panel and check all breakers there 

 If allllllllllll connections and spices, wiring and wire nuts and ATS and genny breakers are good, look into genset troubleshooting, it could be minor or need excited or the control board is bad. I had that happen on a few Onans grrrrrrrrrrrrrs  

 John T

 

 

[homelesshartshorns]

12 minutes ago, oldjohnt said:

Good morning, in fifty years of RV ownership and several different brands of gensets and ATS's, Ive encountered that problem and agree with the other fine gents.  Here are the five most common causes I encountered:

1) ATS isnt switching...........There can be a built in delay from the time  the genset starts until the actual switching takes place..........On some faulty AT switches if you shut them down and restart it may work the next time, try that. Check alllllllllll connections inside the ATS box

2) The onboard circuit breakers on the genset are tripped....

3) Theres a bad or loose or open connection somewhere between the gensets output and the panel. Look in junction boxes and check wire nuts and connections !!! 

4) If theres no ATS but instead the power cord plugs into a genny fed receptacle, insure theres genny power to the box receptacle and the plug is good and fully/firmly in place.

5) The Genset itself is bad it may be a control circuit board problem grrrrrrrrrrrr expensive 

 Take a volt meter and one at a time see where there is (if any) power and where it stops.

 Start at gennys output and to the ATS input (look for a junction box open it and check connections and wire nuts etc) ,,,,,,,,,Start genny and see if ATS actually switches  (wont until genny products voltage!!!) and if so theres power on its output,,,,,,,,,see if theres power to the panel and check all breakers there 

 If allllllllllll connections and spices, wiring and wire nuts and ATS and genny breakers are good, look into genset troubleshooting, it could be minor or need excited or the control board is bad. I had that happen on a few Onans grrrrrrrrrrrrrs  

 John T

 

 

Good information, thank you will dig into this more when weather is better....

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, homelesshartshorns said:

No readings with meter. I am thing the ATS is in the elect bay!

If you don't have a volt/ohm meter, I would suggest that you get one and spend a little time learning to use it. You can get some reasonably good ones for $30 or less from Amazon or at any Lowe's store or Home Depot. Even the cheapest ones are better than nothing but I'd plan to spend at least $15-20. Not only are they a very helpful tool but they are also a good safety device to avoid a nasty surprise.   🥴

The ATS is very likely located in the electric bay of the RV, especially if things like the 12V distribution panel, the converter, and such items are located there. It should have connections into it from both the generator and your shore power cord and the output side should go to the 120V distribution panel. Am I right that you have a 50A RV and probably about 5Kw generator?

[oldjohnt]

53 minutes ago, homelesshartshorns said:

Good information, thank you will dig into this more when weather is better....

You're welcome, Just hope (provided its not an ATS or bad connection) it's NOT a control circuit board problem (see owners manual troubleshooting tips) those are EXPENSIVE if you have to purchase from Onan and Dinosaur Electronics doesn't offer replacements grrrrrrrrrr The voltage check measurements at the locations I described are easy peasey even if all you have is a cheap Harbor Freight Volt Ohm Meter. 

Best wishes let us know what you find

John T  Live in the RV currently in High Springs Florida

[jbh]

Flip the breakers and check for voltage at the junction box. If no voltage, slip rings and brushes may be cruddy. If not that, perhaps control board.  Older Onans will happily run while producing no voltage.

https://www.flightsystems.com/shop-all.html

[Wrknrvr]

      If you can call Flight Systems. There number is on there website. You may be able to talk to a tech there that could help you determine what is wrong.

    U need a volt meter and be ready to do some testing before you call. They also repair printed circuit boards.

They are in south central Pa.  I was there years ago. About four years ago I had a odd inverter I was working on. They helped me understand what was wrong.

 

      At one time they made all Chrysler electronics for cars if I remember correctly.

hope this helps

[homelesshartshorns]

4 hours ago, Wrknrvr said:

      If you can call Flight Systems. There number is on there website. You may be able to talk to a tech there that could help you determine what is wrong.

    U need a volt meter and be ready to do some testing before you call. They also repair printed circuit boards.

They are in south central Pa.  I was there years ago. About four years ago I had a odd inverter I was working on. They helped me understand what was wrong.

 

      At one time they made all Chrysler electronics for cars if I remember correctly.

hope this helps

Thanks for the lead.

[homelesshartshorns]

Ok I checked the ATS with a tester. I seem to have elect between the house and the pedestal, no elect on the third wire. When I turn off the pedestal and start the generator, I have electric on the third wire but not on the house. So, I am guessing you guys are right my six-year-old ATS is not work!

Next problem my ATS doesn't look like the ones I see on Utube! My question now is this the right ATS for my 50amp house, it looks pretty light weight to me, and it has more wires than the Utube ones I have looked at. 

And before you ask I think I am seeing 120 between white to red and black. And 240 between red and black.

! 

[homelesshartshorns]

Parallax Power Supply (ATS501 120/240 Volt 50 Amp Transfer Switch | Generator Transfer Switches

 

So this is it right? 

 

PS: The meter reading I get from the generator is 140??  

Edited December 12, 2022 by homelesshartshorns
aside

[Kirk W]

3 hours ago, homelesshartshorns said:

And before you ask I think I am seeing 120 between white to red and black. And 240 between red and black.

That is what it should have!

3 hours ago, homelesshartshorns said:

So this is it right? 

That should work fine. There are several others on Amazon if you look there. Parallax has a good reputation but I'd probably go with Progressive Dynamics but that is partly personal preference. I'm sure that we all have our favorites so others may like one of the others but there are several that would do the job. 

[oldjohnt]

6 hours ago, homelesshartshorns said:

And before you ask I think I am seeing 120 between white to red and black. And 240 between red and black.

Thats correct for a 120/240 Volt Single Phase Three Wire Service configuration of which most (not all) 50 amp RV power pedestals are set up. Ive seen 208Y 120 service in some RV parks !!!

 With Red and Black being the UNgrounded AKA Hot/Line L1 & L2 phase conductors ,,,,,,,,,White the Grounded AKA Neutral Conductor,,,,,,,,,Green/Bare being the Equipmemnt GroundiNG Conductor:

 You would measure 120 VAC from EITHER Hot L1 or L2 to Neutral orrrrrrrrrr Ground and as you found 240 L1 (Red) to L2 (Black)  PROVIDED all is wired and configured correctly.

NOTE there can be ONLY one Neutral Ground Bond and when wired to a genset some ATS's I read about provide a method to create that Bond ONLY WHEN using Genset power but NOT otherwise. Unlike a homes panel remember an RV panel has separate insulated and isolated Neutral and Ground Busses as the single NG bond previously takes place at the Utility or a Genset when used.

NOTE so long as the ATS switches/selects EITHER the Genset or Utility to feed the panel with enough poles (its purpose DUH) and has sufficient ampacity and voltage ratings, any of among several different brands will, of course, work but I have no idea how your existing switch or a replacement might handle any Neutral Ground Bonding issues???? Absent your existing switches wiring diagram and the same for a proposed new switch, I hesitate to recommend a replacement. I suggest you talk to tech support to make sure if there are any ATS Neutral Ground Bonding issues that need addressed. There's likely nothing to worry about but I just can't say from here.

6 hours ago, homelesshartshorns said:

PS: The meter reading I get from the generator is 140?? 

Thats HIGH !!!!!!!!!!!  and over 10% above nominal 120 !!!!    

 Talk to TECHNCAL SUPPORT (instead of sales people lol) regarding your current switch (maybe they can help troubleshoot, maybe get yours going, maybe its a circuit control board problem ??? and before ordering any replacement is my best advice. Im just too long retired from power distribution engineering and rusty which is why I hesitate to give further advice or spend YOUR money lol  

   Best wishes God Bless and have a Merry CHRISTmas

   John T Live in the RV from the West Marion Moose Lodge near Ocala Florida where Im dry camped for the night

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by oldjohnt

[homelesshartshorns]

So is changing this box out the consensus of this group with the information I have provided?

[Kirk W]

Speaking only for myself, the ATS failure is my #1 suspect but if I were there I would remove the cover on your current ATS and inspect it visually, then take several more readings both with power and some without power because I am not completely sure as there are some other possibilities. 

[homelesshartshorns]

2 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

Speaking only for myself, the ATS failure is my #1 suspect but if I were there I would remove the cover on your current ATS and inspect it visually, then take several more readings both with power and some without power because I am not completely sure as there are some other possibilities. 

I need someone to blame here! If you were in Texas maybe I can get your help?

[Kirk W]

I am in TX so where are you? I am in an east Dallas suburb.

[homelesshartshorns]

Just now, Kirk W said:

I am in TX so where are you? I am in an east Dallas suburb.

 

Just now, Kirk W said:

I am in TX so where are you? I am in an east Dallas suburb.

O man Dallas is too cold for my old rig and my bones! But we are at Summerville Lake area for the Holidays. After January 4 we will be headed down around Victoria. 

[homelesshartshorns]

1 minute ago, homelesshartshorns said:

 

O man Dallas is too cold for my old rig and my bones! But we are at Summerville Lake area for the Holidays. After January 4 we will be headed down around Victoria. 

I have ordered the box so it will be a couple weeks before I get it. 

[Kirk W]

2 minutes ago, homelesshartshorns said:

O man Dallas is too cold for my old rig and my bones!

It can be but the past few days we have been in the mid 60's.

[oldjohnt]

12 hours ago, homelesshartshorns said:

So is changing this box out the consensus of this group with the information I have provided?

Not being there to do my own testing I can't say 100% for sure.  I can say however, (1) Iffffffffff the genny (assuming its a 50 Amp 120/240 Genset same as utility provides ?????) when running is producing 120 VAC L1 or L2 to Neutral (or Ground) and 240 L1 to L2 it sounds fine PROVIDED IT DOES THE SAME UNDER LOAD !!!!!!!!!!!!!! and (2) if the ATS isn't switching/transferring that same voltage to the panel (after delay time) when genny runs iffffffff all the wiring is good, correct and intact (could just have a loose/bad connection !!!!) ,,,,,,,,,,,IT NEEDS REPLACED. That 140 Volts you spoke of IS TOO HIGH which points to a genny problem !!!!!!!!! Again without my own testing I cant advise you to purchase a new ATS or troubleshoot the genny and still advise you contact tech support in addition to what any of us might speculate here in the dark...  

 I was in the Austin later east of there a while back and would have been glad to help, but Im in Florida now 

 Keep us posted how things proceed and feel free to ask any more questions

 John T  Moose Lodge near Ocala headed to Lecanto Florida Moose later today for dry camping good food good cold beer yayyyyyyyyyyyy