Towability/handling - If you had the choice - TT and retain truck bed use, or 5th & convert truck bed to use?

[FlyFishn]

3 hours ago, trailertraveler said:

Good friends rolled their truck and trailer due to uncontrollable sway. I bought the Hensley because we planned numerous cross country trips and I knew that if we experienced any sway it would likely be the end of DW's RVing.

Going backwards in posts a bit but I did want to hit on this - this is getting right to the heart of the thread. I've had some pretty squirrely experiences on the road. I'd say the worst was the infamous "death wobble" issue in my  F350 - worn out steering components. That was with no trailer, but still an experience. Some semi loads I've had were *very* top heavy (just in time steel loads where they load in reverse order of use - which meant the heaviest stuff sometimes used first was at the top, go figure), and other bad ones were empty curtain side trailers in cross winds - sails for trailers with no weight.

What I don't know is how common handling issues in TT's (and the like - bumper pulls) are. I know a light tongue on a bumper pull trailer can cause fish-tailing. To me, that is a no-brainer to deal with. I don't think that is what my concern is - it could be part of it, but a light tongue would be pretty easy to deal with. My concern getting to the handling issues is all the other stuff that can cause trailer sway. If the "box" of the trailer (wind surface area) is too strong for a "light" truck in a bumper pull configuration and there's not much that can be done to get away from it then it might be worth a consideration to get better handling with a 5th wheel if we're "up there" on max'ing out our possibilities, even if that does require more "work" to set up/tear down.

The ProPride hitch set up (current/new Hensley design) allows lateral "swing" of the trailer tongue so that it doesn't throw the tow vehicle side-to-side and self-dampens sway. It is a good design, but for the $3500 or so it would take I'd rather go 5th wheel with an air ride hitch like the TS3, though it is heavy. The Companion I want to say is around 150-200lbs, vs the 400lbs for the TS3 - a 200lb pin weight penalty for the TS3.

[D&J]

11 hours ago, FlyFishn said:

@D&J - Thanks for the box idea. That gives me some good food for thought.

 

Though the box idea gives me some options, what it doesn't do is satisfy the "enclosed bed" idea. The volume in the boxes might only be 1/4, if that even, of the total volume available with a cap - and being separate boxes they would not be able to contain bulky things - like building materials, miter saw, table saw, etc. They will, however, be able to hold chains and other rigging gear (and keep it better organized - big plus), smaller hand held power tools, maybe some shorter long tools like sledge hammer, axe, pry bars, but not shovels.

The obvious question is can't some of that stuff get wet in an open bed - like shovels? That doesn't solve the theft problem and we've had an issue with that - working in residential areas and going back to the trucks stuff has magically walked off.

Just thinking out loud here - the box idea does most certainly help with weight distribution. That would allow a significant amount of weight to ride in the truck that would otherwise have to ride in a 5th wheel.

You should really consider a Toy Hauler, lots of room to store your tools in a dry environment.

Denny

[FlyFishn]

3 minutes ago, mptjelgin said:

My current 2019 F-350 diesel has only 25,000 miles (with zero repairs) and I expect to be driving it for many more years. 

Thanks for the input.

2011 F350 with the 6.7. 177,000 miles (I'm the original owner). I'm on my 5th EGR core, needs shocks (next season), brakes (next season), I want to replace the springs to get ahead of them (no signs of issues, but freshen'ing them up is a good idea - the rear has been stressed a good bit with loads), and I just had the high pressure fuel pump grenade at 175,000. At least the whole fuel system is good for a good while now (new rails, injectors, pump, everything on the high pressure circuit). Around 150,000 miles I rebuilt the front end - initially everything down-stream of the pitman arm and I tightened up the gear box. Then the next year I replaced the gear box - it just was too worn out.

The key to issues on the road is preventative maintenance - replacing things that should be replaced before there is an issue (IE - springs, brakes). The death wobble could have been prevented had I got to replacing components that had slop in them before they got bad enough to cause the wobble, for example.

[FlyFishn]

8 minutes ago, D&J said:

You should really consider a Toy Hauler, lots of room to store your tools in a dry environment.

Yep. That is something we're looking at options with.

I will say, though, that we don't like what we've seen in person so far in that category where the "garage" for transport is the "living space and kitchen" in "camp use". It is a way to multi-purpose available space, but we don't care for those designs.

I would like to find a design like that which offers a form of collapsible dinette to contrast. So far none of the ones we've looked at have had that - they have opposing couches with no table.

One thing I keep an open mind to is not necessarily taking the layouts as-is at face-value - I look at possibilities in modifying things and in what ways to accommodate our uses better. For example - a floor plan/layout that has limited counter top space - make a stand-alone, collapsible island, or peninsula counter extension that can be set up when needed. Or, to satisfy the better half's desire to have a bigger oven - open up the space where the factory oven is and put in a bigger one - can the counter, drawers, cabinets be modified/remodeled to get a wider oven in? Of course, if we could get all our wants in a layout that works without modifying/remodeling that would be easier.

If we went "toy hauler" route then having a walled off dedicated garage would be ideal so we're not "loading/hauling stuff in her kitchen". That is only available on larger/longer models. The trailer's GVWR and axle ratings are more important - no matter what way we go.

[podwerkz]

When I typed out my recommendation for a 'smallish' trailer,  there had been nothing mentioned previously about keeping a wife, friends and family happy.  I double checked. Don't go back and edit because I made copies.

There were DOZENS or maybe hundreds of statements and sentences beginning with *I*...need this....*I* need that...

So...now it's 'WE' who need a rig that does it ALL. Keeps the wife happy, Uncle Bob and Cousin Sue will have a comfy place to sleep in the 45 foot long bunkhouse 5th wheel (with 4 slides!) and they will be watching the big screen while you drive 30 miles away stomping out fires or handing out bandaids and bottles of water.

The neighbor with 3 kids and a dog will enjoy your satellite TV on the big-screen televator and the kids and dogs will love the inflatable pool. They all might even leave you a cold biscuit when you come in at 3 am busted and bruised from helping a needy and worthy community of your choosing that's near a really large, flat, pull thru campsite with full hookups.

"Analysis paralysis" has set in and you will never get anywhere that way. You are trying to check ALL the boxes...instead of some of them. If this answer bothers you then you are not ready for this.

It sounds like you are going to need about $175,000 to fix this problem but the 2-legged and 4-legged tag-alongs will certainly be happy.

Good luck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by podwerkz

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, FlyFishn said:

Of course, if we could get all our wants in a layout that works without modifying/remodeling that would be easier.

Have you looked at New Horizons?

[Star Dreamer]

Consider looking at Dune Sport Toyhaulers. They custom build to what you want (or course you have to know what you want first). They will add a wall to separate the garage from the living area, add the drop down beds, do larger showers or bathtubs, and they can arrange the garage to handle a Jeep or other heavy vehicle. We put our full size van or SUV in ours. If you go with their larger ones they can get heavy and may need a larger truck to safely pull it. 

You need make a list of what are the must haves and what are the nice to haves and then work out what might be your options to achieve your mission profile.

[RangeMaggotBob]

On 1/31/2022 at 7:50 PM, D&J said:

Here's another option, the first box is a 50 gal aux tank but it can be a large tool box, the second one is a box designed for a short box so its tapered at the bottom for the hitch. The other two are 10" side boxes. The hitch has been replaced by a Pullright SuperLite so its really easily removed.

I would never go to a TT because of the lack of storage when compared to a 5th wheel.

Denny

Not to get off-topic, but wow Denny! That's a sharp looking rig! 

[D&J]

2 hours ago, RangeMaggotBob said:

Not to get off-topic, but wow Denny! That's a sharp looking rig! 

Thanks, I just can't stand to leave our homebase without my tools. 🍻

Denny

[FlyFishn]

6 minutes ago, D&J said:

Thanks, I just can't stand to leave our homebase without my tools. 🍻

Denny

Wheres the air compressor, Denny? Viair system behind the side panels? 😄

In all seriousness, we think alike on that point. Down the road I would like to have a portable air compressor with around 20-30gal tank capacity I can run on the road. I've looked at the Viair systems. As convenient as they would be for "on-board air" - a conventional compressor run off a generator would be more versatile for me because I can weld off the same generator. Yeah there are engine drive compressors and welders, but I don't think you can beat the versatility of a separate generator powering both - with commercial power available on-site (wherever that may be) theres no need to run the gen to get the compressor or welder going.

The compressor I started with at home was a 20gal. The tank is rusted beyond my comfort level of using it so I have a 10gal harbor freight tank plumbed in for interim use. However, its only a 135psi set up. I haven't used it in a year or so. I got a heavier 240/120v circuit in to run welders more comfortably. I was using a 30a dryer outlet on the inside of the garage wall. It actually will provide all the power I need for any welding I might do here (not real heavy), but I had to run a cord through the door to the garage to do it. So instead of just splitting it with another outlet and running the circuit hard at times I thought I'd just run a whole other heavier circuit. With that set up I can run pretty much what ever single phase motor I want - they top out around 7.5hp (beyond that is 3-phase). I'm thinking that is the way to go - air is one of those things you can never have too much of, and if you have too little its irritating.

Back more on topic - air tools on the road would be great. Yeah you can get capable cordless impacts these days, but there are things you can do with air a lot easier that cordless tools can't - fill (and mount) tires.

I have a giant ratchet - made by EZ Red - that extends to around 4 feet. They make a 3/4" drive and 1" drive version, mine is the 3/4" and I have an adapter to 1" if I need it. If I can't work bolts and nuts with normal size tools I use that ratchet. It beats a pipe and a smaller ratchet or wrench, or even a long breaker bar - it ratchets - and doesn't take a lot of air to run like a heavier impact wrench. Even if air and a heavy impact is available a giant ratchet is a fantastic back up. Its saved my bacon a few times.

Stiff lug nuts are a common one. I break with the EZ Red (off, spin with drill or by hand off & on and torque wrench to set proper torque - always).

[D&J]

1 hour ago, FlyFishn said:

Wheres the air compressor, Denny? Viair system behind the side panels? 😄

In all seriousness, we think alike on that point. Down the road I would like to have a portable air compressor with around 20-30gal tank capacity I can run on the road. I've looked at the Viair systems. As convenient as they would be for "on-board air" - a conventional compressor run off a generator would be more versatile for me because I can weld off the same generator. Yeah there are engine drive compressors and welders, but I don't think you can beat the versatility of a separate generator powering both - with commercial power available on-site (wherever that may be) theres no need to run the gen to get the compressor or welder going.

The compressor I started with at home was a 20gal. The tank is rusted beyond my comfort level of using it so I have a 10gal harbor freight tank plumbed in for interim use. However, its only a 135psi set up. I haven't used it in a year or so. I got a heavier 240/120v circuit in to run welders more comfortably. I was using a 30a dryer outlet on the inside of the garage wall. It actually will provide all the power I need for any welding I might do here (not real heavy), but I had to run a cord through the door to the garage to do it. So instead of just splitting it with another outlet and running the circuit hard at times I thought I'd just run a whole other heavier circuit. With that set up I can run pretty much what ever single phase motor I want - they top out around 7.5hp (beyond that is 3-phase). I'm thinking that is the way to go - air is one of those things you can never have too much of, and if you have too little its irritating.

Back more on topic - air tools on the road would be great. Yeah you can get capable cordless impacts these days, but there are things you can do with air a lot easier that cordless tools can't - fill (and mount) tires.

I have a giant ratchet - made by EZ Red - that extends to around 4 feet. They make a 3/4" drive and 1" drive version, mine is the 3/4" and I have an adapter to 1" if I need it. If I can't work bolts and nuts with normal size tools I use that ratchet. It beats a pipe and a smaller ratchet or wrench, or even a long breaker bar - it ratchets - and doesn't take a lot of air to run like a heavier impact wrench. Even if air and a heavy impact is available a giant ratchet is a fantastic back up. Its saved my bacon a few times.

Stiff lug nuts are a common one. I break with the EZ Red (off, spin with drill or by hand off & on and torque wrench to set proper torque - always).

We have two compressors one for the trucks air bags mounted to the frame and a 1.5 gal 150 psi 120 volt in the second tool box. I have a 20 volt cordless impact for lug nuts.

Denny