Other mail and domicile services

[Kirk W]

7 hours ago, sandsys said:

Our county service center offers lots of services and passport applications and renewals are among of those services.

I'm not sure exactly what a county service center is? We have county offices but none issue passports, since that is federal. Since the difficulties of covid19, even the US Passport office is recommending that people do all renewals by mail. 

[sandsys]

11 hours ago, Kirk W said:

I'm not sure exactly what a county service center is? We have county offices but none issue passports, since that is federal. Since the difficulties of covid19, even the US Passport office is recommending that people do all renewals by mail. 

Our country service center, in the case of passports, just provides the photos and paperwork and checks your documents so you don't have to mail those. The passports themselves still come in the mail. Having already lost one birth certificate I really didn't want to mail the replacement one.

Linda

[Blues]

On 9/17/2020 at 9:47 AM, goldenskyhook said:

They didn't say anything to me about proof of residence. The two pieces of mail I brought were fine for that. I had mislaid my birth certificate and it took a few days to order and receive a copy.

The email they sent you mentioned proof of residency if you wanted your renewal to be a REAL ID, and you took two pieces of mail.  What I don't understand is someone in Wisconsin needs proof of residency to get a REAL ID when renewing his driver's license, while a person in Texas doesn't.  It's a federal law, so I would think complying with it would be the same in all states.

[Barbaraok]

Texas also has a residency requirement, which is different from the requirement to prove US Citizenship or Lawful Presence.      

It appears that Wisconsin has the same requirements: https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/dmv/license-drvs/how-to-apply/documentation.aspx

 

[goldenskyhook]

1 hour ago, Blues said:

The email they sent you mentioned proof of residency if you wanted your renewal to be a REAL ID, and you took two pieces of mail.  What I don't understand is someone in Wisconsin needs proof of residency to get a REAL ID when renewing his driver's license, while a person in Texas doesn't.  It's a federal law, so I would think complying with it would be the same in all states.

Yeah, I dunno either. I just went in yesterday and the 2 pieces of mail worked just fine. Of course I also had my address on my old DL.

[Zulu]

On 9/14/2020 at 11:59 AM, Barbaraok said:

One of the big differences is that there was a law case in Texas and Escapees address was judged to be a legal physical address for voting, etc.

The legal decision applies to the state of TX. It's not a carte blanche for all things domicile.

[Barbaraok]

13 minutes ago, Zulu said:

The legal decision applies to the state of TX. It's not a carte blanche for all things domicile.

Yes, it applies in Texas.   Did I say otherwise?     I'm not sure I understand  your second sentence.  

[Blues]

On 9/18/2020 at 6:27 PM, Barbaraok said:

Texas also has a residency requirement, which is different from the requirement to prove US Citizenship or Lawful Presence.      

It appears that Wisconsin has the same requirements: https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/dmv/license-drvs/how-to-apply/documentation.aspx

I think there's some confusion in the difference between applying for a driver's license and renewing a driver's license.  I can certainly understand requiring proof of residency in order for someone to obtain a driver's license in a given state, because they're issued to residents.

But we're talking about renewals.  When goldenskyhook renewed his driver's license in Wisconsin, he needed to submit proof of residency documents to get a REAL ID.  But nobody reporting on renewals in Texas (you, me, Kirk) has mentioned having to submit proof of residency documents to get the REAL ID star on their renewed license.

Why the difference?

[goldenskyhook]

Yes, if I hadn't wanted the REAL ID, I could have renewed online. They did check my vision when I went in, probably because of my age.

[Barbaraok]

Yes, I had to submit proof of residency to Renew.   I bet you did too, just didn’t remember it?  Copy of coach registration, voter’s Registration card, insurance were good enough.  IIRC it took only passport to establish citizenship, but 2 pieces for residency.  

[Barbaraok]

3 minutes ago, goldenskyhook said:

Yes, if I hadn't wanted the REAL ID, I could have renewed online. They did check my vision when I went in, probably because of my age.

With the Class A that we have, can’t do online, so had to do by mail, plus upgrading to the Real ID.   Because of our driver’s license type we can’t renew online.   

[Blues]

On 9/20/2020 at 11:56 AM, Barbaraok said:

Yes, I had to submit proof of residency to Renew.   I bet you did too, just didn’t remember it?  Copy of coach registration, voter’s Registration card, insurance were good enough.  IIRC it took only passport to establish citizenship, but 2 pieces for residency.  

No, I'm sure the two renewals I know about didn't require any proof of residency.  The most recent one was a year ago, and the person getting the renewal didn't take anything other than the current license, and had to go back to the RV to get the birth certificate.  (The DPS clerk didn't give the option for a passport, but I think that might be because it was a small town where people probably aren't particularly likely to have passports.)

Also, the address on both the vehicle registration renewal form and the proof of insurance is a p.o. box, so neither of those would have sufficed for proof of residency.  So there would have to have been some serious digging for residency documents, and that didn't happen.  The birth certificate is in a special place, so it took only seconds to go right to it, and take it right back to the DPS office.

Perhaps it's an exception, but it's an exception that's happened twice--at two different DPS offices, once in 2017 and once in 2019. 

[Barbaraok]

Blues,   what state?    AND yes, you provided proof of residency - your current driver's license.  Most states (like Texas) require more than just the current DL you have.   

[Twotoes]

In SD you can renew your vehicle annual registration by mail, and no inspection needed. However to renew your drivers license, (every 5 years) if you have a PMB address and no physical address, you must show proof of one night stay in a campground or hotel. 

[Kirk W]

24 minutes ago, Twotoes said:

In SD you can renew your vehicle annual registration by mail, and no inspection needed. However to renew your drivers license, (every 5 years) if you have a PMB address and no physical address, you must show proof of one night stay in a campground or hotel. 

I just renewed my TX license and it is good for 8 years. 

[Blues]

22 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

Blues,   what state?    

Texas.

 

22 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

AND yes, you provided proof of residency - your current driver's license.  

As it turns out, the current driver's license had an old address, which was changed on the new license.  So not even that was current, which meant that a REAL ID was issued with nothing more than a current license with a stale address and a birth certificate.

 

22 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

Most states (like Texas) require more than just the current DL you have.   

I know of twice in Texas that nothing more was required, in order to prove residency.  I wish I knew why.

Kirk, what residency documents did you have to provide with your most recent renewal?  Did you do it in person?

[Kirk W]

2 hours ago, Blues said:

Kirk, what residency documents did you have to provide with your most recent renewal?  Did you do it in person?

I had done an address change about a year ago so that was current and nothing more was asked for as proof of address. For proof of ID I used my passport and also social security card. They took copies of both. We were required to do it in person because of the Real ID issue. Had it not been for that we could have renewed online, I think. Somewhere I did read that all renewals must be in person after some age, but it must be older than 78 and my expiration date was that birthday, even though I renewed about a month early. 

[Blues]

18 hours ago, Kirk W said:

I had done an address change about a year ago so that was current and nothing more was asked for as proof of address. For proof of ID I used my passport and also social security card. They took copies of both.

So you didn't have to present any extra proof of residency at this last renewal.  Do you remember if you had to present any proof of residency when you changed your address a year ago?  When I've given addresses in the past (whether a change or just changing it when I renewed), I never had to submit documentation supporting that address.  And I know because twice I used as my address the address of offices that I never receive mail at.  But that was before REAL ID.

But, as noted, I didn't have to submit any proof of residency in order to get a REAL ID, either.  For some reason.

[Kirk W]

50 minutes ago, Blues said:

So you didn't have to present any extra proof of residency at this last renewal.  Do you remember if you had to present any proof of residency when you changed your address a year ago? 

I did was not asked for anything with an address on it at all for my renewal. I believe that Real ID is intended to verify hour identity in the same manner as a passport, which has no address on it but only proves that you are who you claim to be and are a US citizen. As far as I know, the Real ID has no connection to or of indication of residency or domicile.  I have had a TX driver's license since I moved to the state in 1989, when I did have to show proof that we were residing in TX. I have since that moved from Tarrant Co. to Polk Co., to Smith Co. and then to Dallas Co. In every case we just did a change of address by mail, or the two most recent times online. Here is the information from the Dept. of Homeland Security:

Quote

The REAL ID Act establishes minimum security standards for license issuance and production and prohibits Federal agencies from accepting for certain purposes driver’s licenses and identification cards from states not meeting the Act’s minimum standards. The purposes covered by the Act are: accessing Federal facilities, entering nuclear power plants, and, boarding federally regulated commercial aircraft.

It is also possible to get a TX driver's license as a non-US citizen residing in TX. The following comes from the TX - DPS.

Quote

A temporary visitor is anyone who is not a U.S. citizen, U.S. national, lawful permanent resident, refugee or asylee.

A temporary visitor who wants to apply for a limited term driver license or ID card must provide one of the following documents for verification through DHS. (Documents may be expired unless otherwise noted.)

A document (or combination of documents) issued by the U.S. Department of Justice, U.S. Department of State, U.S. Department of Homeland Security or U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services that shows lawful temporary admission to the U.S.

Limited term licenses and ID cards issued to temporary visitors expire when the person’s period of lawful presence expires.

 

[Barbaraok]

I guess there is a difference between doing it in person and doing it by mail in Texas.   Will see in 2024 when I turn 79 and have to renew again and that has to be in person.  Of course it would be in person anyway, just a couple of years later.

[Blues]

On 9/24/2020 at 3:06 PM, Barbaraok said:

I guess there is a difference between doing it in person and doing it by mail in Texas.   Will see in 2024 when I turn 79 and have to renew again and that has to be in person. 

You'll already have your REAL ID, though.  (Wisconsin said residency documents were required IF goldenskyhook wanted a REAL ID, so presumably they're not required if the person renewing doesn't want a REAL ID.)

I wonder if you really had to submit residency documents.  Maybe they weren't actually necessary, but since it was done by mail, there was no one to say, "Oh, you don't need these" or something like that.

[Barbaraok]

27 minutes ago, Blues said:

You'll already have your REAL ID, though.  (Wisconsin said residency documents were required IF goldenskyhook wanted a REAL ID, so presumably they're not required if the person renewing doesn't want a REAL ID.)

I wonder if you really had to submit residency documents.  Maybe they weren't actually necessary, but since it was done by mail, there was no one to say, "Oh, you don't need these" or something like that.

Since it is listed on the website of documents you must have to renew by mail, I believe the answer is yes.   And I checked, you do not have to verify residency if you are renewing online.  It has been 6 years since I renewed in person, and  don't remember what they asked in 2013 (renewed 6 months early) so likely we didn't have produce anything but our licenses, take the vision test and sign the statement regarding our vehicle being an RV over 26,000 pounds and get new picture taken.     

[Blues]

On 9/27/2020 at 3:51 PM, Barbaraok said:

Since it is listed on the website of documents you must have to renew by mail, I believe the answer is yes.   And I checked, you do not have to verify residency if you are renewing online. 

So the only people who have to prove residency are those who renew by mail.  People doing it online and people doing it in person don't. That doesn't make sense.

However, I think I figured it out.  Did you use the process for renewing a license as a Texas resident who is currently living outside the state?  There's a specific procedure for that:
 

Quote

If your true, fixed and permanent home (domicile) is in Texas and you are living outside of the state, you may be eligible to renew or replace your Texas driver license or ID card without returning to Texas. 

Examples of people living outside of the state who have Texas domicile include certain U.S. active duty military members, students whose parents live in Texas and people temporarily living outside of Texas for work.

https://www.dps.texas.gov/DriverLicense/nonmilitaryrenewal.htm

That does require proof of Texas residency, because you're actually living in another state while claiming Texas residency.  That site says:

Quote

If you meet these eligibility requirements, to renew your driver license or identification card you will need to submit the following information and completed forms to the Department for processing:

1. An Out-of-State or Out-of-Country Packet
   1. Complete the enclosed application (DL-14A)
   2. The address field is the Texas address that appears on your driver license or identification card
   3. The mailing address field is your current address where you want your card mailed

Note in particular the instructions on the address.  That anticipates an address in Texas, and a different address where you are currently living and want your driver's license mailed to.  That won't be the case for someone who is traveling, who will have their license sent to the Texas address that's on their license.

I don't think that someone who happens to be traveling outside the state and is renewing by mail has to use this out-of-state process.  The examples they give, like students attending college or active-duty military, are different from people who happen to be away from Texas because they're traveling around.

Instead, they can just complete the renewal application form, get it notarized (required for all main-in renewals), and send it in.  No residency documents required for this type of mail-in renewal.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Blues

[Kirk W]

On 9/20/2020 at 12:53 PM, goldenskyhook said:

They did check my vision when I went in, probably because of my age.

That seems to be standard if you get your license in person, in most if not all states. I have held a driver's license in 6 different states and I'm quite sure that all of them did a vision test when renewing in person. 

It would seem to have been covered pretty well, unless you have some other question?

[Barbaraok]

3 hours ago, Blues said:

So the only people who have to prove residency are those who renew by mail.  People doing it online and people doing it in person don't. That doesn't make sense.

However, I think I figured it out.  Did you use the process for renewing a license as a Texas resident who is currently living outside the state?  There's a specific procedure for that:
 

https://www.dps.texas.gov/DriverLicense/nonmilitaryrenewal.htm

That does require proof of Texas residency, because you're actually living in another state while claiming Texas residency.  That site says:

Note in particular the instructions on the address.  That anticipates an address in Texas, and a different address where you are currently living and want your driver's license mailed to.  That won't be the case for someone who is traveling, who will have their license sent to the Texas address that's on their license.

I don't think that someone who happens to be traveling outside the state and is renewing by mail has to use this out-of-state process.  The examples they give, like students attending college or active-duty military, are different from people who happen to be away from Texas because they're traveling around.

Instead, they can just complete the renewal application form, get it notarized (required for all main-in renewals), and send it in.  No residency documents required for this type of mail-in renewal.

What you don’t understand is that people with Class A and Class B licenses CAN NOT renew online and must do it by mail or in person.  If you are traveling, you do it by mail. We were not in Texas when licenses needed to be renewed.  Set in requested material and had them sent to Livingston.  Then had them sent on to with our mail.   Since I’ve done it twice I’m not sure why you are so hostile to me.