Building a muzzleloader rifle

[Wrknrvr]

 

  this photo shows the scope base inlaid deeper into stock. Will tap it to seat it deeper when sun is up and showing on the target at 800 or so yards.

  Wife is packing a lunch for both of us and we are going for a ride in the mountains that will pass the range I have been using.  So will stop and see what the iron sights are doing as I had to adjust the sight since I was last at the range. Then try the scope for a comparison.

 

  Later in the week we may try to find that long range shooting are I heard of.

 

  On a side note those young swans flew over yesterday. And we had deer show up as it was getting dark for a apple feast at the neighbors.

 

   Vern In a T-shirt 

[Wrknrvr]

  Well yesterday went good at the range. 

  I shot once with a maxi ball which weighs about 230 grains. That is what I have been shooting as not shooting long distance yet.

  Then I looked through the scope at about 150’. There was a rock on the bank I was shooting into. About 5” in diameter. I could see it plainly. 

   I did have the shadow tube on. It is about 5” long and had candle soot inside. Also the rear of the scope had the soot mixed in tongue oil painted on that shiny bright  nickel I silver soldered in place. It sure looked nice with a nice angle to the solder. Apparently just correct enough to mess up my vision. 

  So with the iron sights it now is shooting to the right of the target at 50’. I did adjust the scope to shoot where the iron sights were pointing.. before it was shooting to the left. I  kept trying to get it to shoot to the right but the rear of the scope was to far to the left and could not be adjusted any more. 

  So with the scope base being inlaid to the right. It finally shoots to the right of the target. So at that point I know it just needs to be adjusted in the center of the support.

 

  Mooooore thinking about rear scope fine adjustment mechanism. I Bought a part at the hardware store. Hey now they had hardware store in St Louis back the day . Had in shipped up river to my place this day.

 

   So I thought I have a few 700 grain bullets with me. Never ever shot anything in a rifle with that large of a bullet. Put 50 grains of black power in the barrel. One long bullet. 

   Yep I know it was bigger as I felt it on my shoulder. Next time I may put 80 or more grains of black powder in for a test.

   Thinking about fine mechanical adjustment for scope. Leather shims are rather frustrating to work with.

  The fine thread screws should arrive tomorrow from St Louis. I hope

 

 Note ;    this is like wrighting a book. Sure never thought it could be so dam drawn out and complicated.

  I was reading about the Indian wars on the southern planes at the beginning of this subject. I have just a few chapters to finish when this rifle works as I Hope it will.

 

     Vern In a T-shirt 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Wrknrvr

[Darryl&Rita]

I think the threaded adjustment is the way to go, there's too much movement in the leather mounts. Rawhide, maybe, but leather can't grab hard enough to be secure. Easing into the heavier loads is a good plan, it helps avoid the jumps from a heavy load when you don't know what to expect. Sounds like a fun day.

[Wrknrvr]

  Going to a machine shop this am.

 

   Vern in a T-shirt 

 

  But that would be cheating. At least on this subject.

  So I have a few ideas how to do it by hand tools. But I have other stuff to do today

Edited October 1, 2020 by Wrknrvr

[Wrknrvr]

    So now if I use 48 per inch screw threads. For adjustment, and have a nut on the screw so that I could count the flats turned, how much will that change my elevation by turn one flat.

  I purchased a 1” coupling for installing adjustable screws on it.

  Now I am thinking about having two nuts soldered on the outside of a 1” copper coupling. with a hole in the coupling on each side.  Situated so they will push up and to the inside a very small amount. So I have adjustment possibilities.  They are for long distance shooting. I may have two sets of these nuts. One with shorter screws and two with longer screws.

   I also will have adjustment screws from the 1” coupling to the scope tube itself. For short range needs.

  Dam confusing isn’t it.  

I will post pictures tonight or tomorrow am. Foe better understanding of this idea.

 

  I have been reading about calculations on bullet drop, wind and powder charge. Much to learn.

 

   Back to other stuff for the rest of the day.

 

 

  Vern in a T-shirt 

 

[Darryl&Rita]

Now you're bringing Trigonometry into it, too. The shift per turn is dependant on the distance you're shooting to. Best to pick a distance, zero at that distance, then learn to compensate with the grey matter for different distances. Bullet drop will change greatly with varying powder loads, and to a lesser amount with powder brands, and atmospheric changes. More grey matter work.

[Wrknrvr]

  Instructions needed on how to make a adjustable base with these parts.

 

 

  So I am going to try and make these parts into a adjustment mechanism for the rear of the scope. I hope to also make adjustable for distance shooting. How far I can shoot accurately is to beeee ddeeetrmmined when I meet Darryl at the boarder.

 

   I have ordered snow shoes for that event. As long as this is taking.

 

 

   Vern in a T-shirt 

 

  

[Wrknrvr]

  Thinking about this idea.

 

  So I am going to put 4 nuts equally space around the top and bottom of this coupling.  Only on the outside. The ones inside now are just for photo. To show my idea. Then I am thinking about having two nuts on the bottom for elevation adjustment. 

 

  Just thinking,   Vern in a T-shirt 

[Wrknrvr]

  Drill 8 holes where needed. Test fit. Drill 2 offset holes as engineering difficulty.

  Nice word.

 

other stuff to do.

 

   Vern in a T-shirt 

 

  

[Wrknrvr]

  Making progress on scope adjustment mechanism. Do not look at the crude soldering. Will clean up later. I just set the new collar in place. Will adjust to iron sites.

  I have other commitments Monday and Tuesday    I go see the eye doctor on Wednesday so will not be able to shoot till Friday or Saturday.

 

  But starting to make me feel better.

 

 

 Vern In a T-shirt 

  

Edited October 4, 2020 by Wrknrvr

[Wrknrvr]

   This is a photo of the rear scope adjustment mechanism that I made.

 

   So I did look at a target at about 1000 yards away. With the adjustability of the this mounting system it give movement in all directions. Something with trying to use leather was extremely bad word to accomplish.

  But I was trying to do as would be available at that moment in time on the Great Plains.  Something else that I was trying to do was hide the bright light from bothering my eye sight with a leather cover. My testing lately has shown that that silver shiny rear of the scope was very bothersome to be able to see past. Now that I have painted the shiny part black, I can see through the scope much, much, better. I have not put the leather cover on lately. The sun will be gone for a few days because of rainy weather. So testing the adjustment will be next weekend.

  I had my eye doctors appointment wrong in my head. I thought it was this week. But it is next week. So Wednesday and Thursday I will be out of service I think. We have been busy getting ready for winter in Montana so ply things have taken a second place.

 

 

   Vern in a T-shirt 

[Wrknrvr]

  This is looking down the scope to show how it fits.

 

  I actually feel a heck of a lot better knowing I can adjust in all directions simply by turning screws. Next thing will be figuring out bullets, powder and loading technique for accuracy. 

  I also need to do something about a elevation fine adjustment mechanism also.

 

  Just thinking,   Vern in a T-shirt 

[Ray,IN]

I just remembered where I've seen that scope mount before. It was in a Tom Selleck movie about running a dead mans ranch promise, the  assassin had one on his rifle.

Edited October 11, 2020 by Ray,IN

[Wrknrvr]

   Ray,     What movie did u see it in. I was looking the IMDb about guns. But gave up as I was not having very good results finding that gun

  I did try and find Jeremiah Johnson’s guns in that database. But his guns are not listed there. If you search online you can find some but not all that were in that movie.

 

   Thanks,    Vern In a T-shirt 

[Darryl&Rita]

Crossfire Trail. He used a Winchester 1876.

[Wrknrvr]

     Yesterday  I had a few minutes to look at the rifle. So I installed a front sight in the shadow tube. It looks like a promising improvement. I tried to take a picture but looking through a 1/4” hole with a iPad mini does not work. Will get one later with remote camera if possible.

  Then I went to the rear adjustable mechanism  to see if it would work as I think it should. So I aligned the iron sights and then worked on the rear adjustment. Had to remove some metal on the mounting bracket on the rifle side of the scope base. As it was protruding into the adjustable mount on the scope preventing the scope to move as it needed to, to get  on target. Will get a picture of that subject when weather permits. But lots of movement there. Still not able to get on target. So went to the front scope mount and shimed it with leather on the left side. Then tied it down with copper wire.

   So went back to the rear mount. Yes now I can move the rear of the scope around the target in all directions.

     From reading forums on long distance muzzleloader shooting I need to buy better powder than I have. For when I try shooting at longer distances. But for 100 yards or less I will use what I have. It was purchased for a colt 45 pistol I have.

  Bullets for distance shooting are different than normal use. I am using a Thompson Center maxi ball mold for now. They may be good for 200 yards. Previously I only ever shot them at 100 yards for target practice. I have made a few long bullets of my own design.   But a fair amount of long distance muzzleloader shooters use paper patch bullets. And I have never remember even seeing one, but on the net. So I am searching for a new bullet mold for making  paper patch bullets.

  I might try to find that long range site I was told about in the next couple days.

 

   Vern In a T-shirt 

[Wrknrvr]

  Is this the rifle you are talking about.

 

  To big of picture for me to load.

 

  But I did see it. It happens (if I remember that movie) when the cowboy is picking berries. Tom Selleck does not use it. But the hired Assassin uses it.

 

  I never noticed scope mounts on that rifle before.

 

  Thanks, Vern in a T-shirt 

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Wrknrvr

[Wrknrvr]

  Front sight in shadow tube.

g

 

   Will shorten the screw once I figure out how long I need it.

 

  Vern in a T-shirt 

[Darryl&Rita]

He used a Sharps in Quigley Down Under, another Sharps in The Shadow Riders, and I think back to an 1876 for Last Stand at Saber River. All modern, cartridge rifles. I can't remember the scene you're describing, might have to refresh via some On Demand movies.

That shadow tube is making a huge difference. Keep up the period correct work.

[Ray,IN]

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/rare-civil-war-1800s-rifle-sniper-target-scope

10 hours ago, Darryl&Rita said:

Crossfire Trail. He used a Winchester 1876.

Thanks for the catch,  some of the spark plugs in my brain are misfiring.

I had to do some digging in the internet, but here is an article on the maker.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/winchester-rifles---model-1873/winchester-1873-2nd-model-semi-deluxe-rifle-with-rare-john-w--sidle-side-mount-scope.cfm?gun_id=100761415

It was the first rifle telescope invented, and it was used in the civil war; https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/rare-civil-war-1800s-rifle-sniper-target-scope

This is the first large production rifle telescope.

https://possibleshop.com/rifle-malcolm-scopes.html

Edited October 13, 2020 by Ray,IN

[Ray,IN]

Vern, here is a video (at the 3'21" mark) showing the scope mounted on a British Whitworth  rifle, used by a few of the Confederate Army snipers...

 

[Wrknrvr]

   Back in about 1975 I did have a Whitworth rifle in my hands. It did not have a scope if I remember correctly.

  These historical subject do fascinate me. I just like history a lot.

 

  My scope idea was just something I thought of as I was building this rifle. Then I found a article on William Malcolm’s scopes. So I have built it by hand with soldering and things I thought one mite find available on the Great Plains during the 1870’. It does have a rear sight from a cartridge rifle from that time period I do believe. it has really been interesting to build it and understand when materials and fasteners were invented.

  Today I did fool with trying to paper patch a bullet. I need another bullet mold for that subject.

 

  Vern in a T-shirt 

[Ray,IN]

I was surprised to read that Whitworth rifle weighs 17 lbs. with all the accesories. No wonder it was hauled in a wagon until needed.

I've been reading your thread and it has inspired me to  again pay attention to my Harpers Ferry musket.. I made a hammer for it from a block of brass, with a SST ring around the impact point, not original at all.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Ray,IN

[Wrknrvr]

   Here is something not many people know about. Back in the mid 70s I was at Gettysburg NP and I was looking around with some other history friends and dam if there was a Cannon  with Whitworths rifling in it?

 

  We could not believe it.

 Well my copy thing is out in neverland some where. If you search for cannons at GNP with Whitworth riding you can find them. Now what I looked at and tried to copy even said there were breech loading Whitworth cannons there also.

  Well today I am going to the eye doctor to get my lenses refocused by injection. Then when the weather is better this weekend I will try that scope out.

 

  Have a good day,    Vern in a T-shirt 

[Wrknrvr]

   So some other things have gotten in my range time, so no new info on shooting. But really going to try and get to the range mid week. I really am excited to try the new adjustment system on the rear of the scope.

  I had to work a few days. Had more doctoring done since last range time, and that eye correction takes about 3 days to calm down. Two other yearly doctor checkups Tuesday and Wednesday.

  If I can get to the range on Tuesday after the doc visit I am going to try and get to the range as it is about halfway there.. Now that long range shooting place I heard of is going to need to be warmer than now. As we have maybe 5” of snow on the ground and it is a backcountry gravel road. Although I do have a Jeep.

   I do have two other gun projects to do during bad weather this winter.  On one build I needed to find some technical questions answered. The last few days I have found what I needed.  I think in the next few weeks I can get to that subject. Now this will involve using a lathe. So I will say it was sent back down the Missouri River for the machine work.  Hope to get get it back before frezzeup.  It will be different.  Thinking of what sights would proper for it.

 

 

  Also found a small group of long range muzzleloader within about 45 minutes drive. They shoot at just over 1000 yards. But they only shoot once a year on Memorial Day weekend. I am trying to find where they shoot. 

 

 

   Vern in a T-shirt