Building a muzzleloader rifle

[Wrknrvr]

  Since the last time on this subject I had made a bullet mold that thought would work. So I was at the range and had shot three modern bullets that I know will shoot to 100 yards. Finally got the scope on target.

  So I tried my new 460 grain bullet. And it works .

 

  So back at the thinking station and thought I need to polish the bullet mold just a little bit. That little bit went big. Blank.

 

  Base of bullet is tooooo big to paper patch. Now what. Base of bullet will just take up the rifling.     Ok now I think the bullet will decide to hang to one side and flop once of the barrel.  Soooo I tried stuffing paper around the outside. That does not work good.

  What about string. Ok it will not stay in place. Bees wax the string.    That works. But now to put then bullet and the string down the barrel properly.

 

thinking.  Thinking harder go to lathe, thinking.

  Vern

[Wrknrvr]

So after thinking, try to turn a nylon bushing. That requires a nether lesson on a lathe.

 That nether lesson is about how I feel when my thinking goes different than what I think it should . 

So finally treat the end of the new bullet pusher with the same cutting tool I used to made the bulletin mold.

 It will push it down the barrel if one does not pull the ramrod up before the final distance is accomplished.

 I tested it on another barrel I have with a open breach.  Also beeswax lube does hold the string in place. Two wraps look good.

 

  Was going to test it today, but there is toooo much smoke locally for much time outside today. Unless the smoke blows away.

 

   Have a good day,    Vern

[Wrknrvr]

   Well I was out at the range yesterday. I did get to shoot the muzzleloader several times. 

  So I still have a problem with seeing the target at 100 yards. Now the crosshairs work really good. But I think the rear opening on the scope is too small for sighting at a short distance. If I look out at several hundred yards it looks good. Today I go see my eye doctor again so I will slip a question in about the rear opening in the scope could cause this problem. My thinking is to have a small hole at the rear of the scope for better centering of the hole. But a bigger one maybe what I need to do. I will measure the existing hole diameter and make one in another brass fitting .

    I also bought a 3’ 7/8 threaded rod to make dies,  or what ever I want. The last time I had a brilliant idea to polish the best bullet mold for the muzzleloader I have.     Yes sir I did it. Rear of the bullet is now too big to paper patch them and install them in the barrel.

  Note.    String bullet idea has to be studied for future thoughts.

 

  I am also tired of the guy with that 45/70.    He always takes so much time with his rifle, that I get very little shooting time.

 

  On a side note I did see two wolves near where I have been shooting lately. Better keep my sidearm with me while there.

 

  Vern

[Wrknrvr]

    Well finally get time on shooting bench.    But I can tell my helper is already bored. She went for another walk.

  So today I am going to try a new 45/70 bullet, paper patched in the muzzleloader.

  Helper is back. Shoot three rounds,   All bullets went straight through the target. Helper is borrrrrred. We must leave.

   But today I did learn the bullet goes where it is supposed to. Last tine out when the old bullet hit wood sideways you could hear it hit.

  Things need to do before the next time at the range.

1 leave before helper gets up

2 learn to load paper patched bullet calmly. I tore the paper on one round Sunday. 

3 Practice the two eyes open when shooting with the scope.

 

  On a side note, I have made two 54 caliber bullet molds for another project this fall. I am also wanting to make a furnace for melting German silver for casting gun parts.

 

  Stay safe,    Vern

Edited August 31, 2021 by Wrknrvr

[Wrknrvr]

 

  So this tool was designed for another project. But I figured out how to repurpose the same tool to load a paper patched bullet in a muzzleloader. It makes getting a paper patched bullet started much better than by hand. On some muzzleloaders that are used for bench-rest target rifles use a pined tool that fits the end of the barrel, to start there bullets. The name of such tool in hiding in my brain at this moment.

  That part is called a false muzzle 

 

  Now making this tool has given more thoughts on loading a single shot cartridge rifle.

 

 Have a good day,    Vern

 

]https://i.imgur.com/17tZrnQl.jpg

 

So so you can see the 45/70 cartridge case has had the primer end drilled out. Then the paper patched bullet can be push into the barrel with ease and much better control of The loading process.

 

 More thing,    Vern

Edited September 10, 2021 by Wrknrvr

[Wrknrvr]

So photo was supposed to appear in the previous post    

[Wrknrvr]

   Since the last time at the range, which was disappointing because I cannot see through the scope at 100 yards or less, and focus.

  So before my last eye injections, I had a eye exam at the doctors. Then ordered new glasses.

  So I had been thinking of how to make a front sight for inside the scope. So made a front sight insert with wire wrapped around a 3/16” drill bit. Soldered it in a ring to make a insert. With this new front sight I tried it at 1000 yards and it works good. Just where I was trying it I cannot shoot.

 

   So finally go to a range in New Mexico and try the new sight, with new glasses. And the results are disasters.   WTH the new glasses I can see the 5” black circle on a white back-round while not looking through the scope.

   But looking through the scope the first time is frustrating. I tried it anyway.    On the third shot the black dot disappears,  now just what is happening. Is it my eye or the sights. Or is it the combination of the two.

 

  Mad again and leave. Next day I take the scope off the rifle. I do not want the neighbors seeing me with a gun from the campground we are in. So walk up the hill and try looking trough the scope at a transformer on a electric pole some distance away.   Darn it now I can see through the scope as I think I should.

    So I will make a new front sight insert with a bigger hole in the middle. Maybe several with different size holes. I also will have several different size rear sights also for the next trip to the range.

  Also trying to shoot with both eyes open.    Well I am confused.

[Wrknrvr]

  So with the crosshairs I could see really good. But I wanted to see the target better, as the crosshairs covered the bullseye.

  So I will make a new circular sight with bigger holes in the middle.

 

  That guy with the 45/70 was not having a good day at the range either.

 

  So I do not feel totally bad after watching him with his stuck cartridges.

 

  Allen

Edited November 21, 2021 by Wrknrvr

[Wrknrvr]

    So I was asking Vern about his thoughts on my Shighting problem at 100 yard range.

   He said he mite of had the same problem. So we made a new front test sight yesterday, installed it. And removed the small hole sight disc at the rear of the scope tube.

   And it works.  So I think I will just use this test sight before I make a new one.

  But the small sights do work at long distance.

 

i do hope to get out Saturday to tast the new larger sights,    Vern

Edited November 28, 2021 by Wrknrvr

[Wrknrvr]

   So Vern stopped by the other day with his 45/70. So we were discussing our sight tubes and to put it mildly , lots of frustrating moments at the range.

  So we decided to try some other thoughts on our sights. Now we try and look through our sight tube with small openings. They work really good at say 300 yards or farther.

  So neither of us has ever seen any one else shoot long distance with this type of gun. 

  So this is a real experience for both of us. Well now let’s rethink what is happening with our sighting problems.

   When I look into the sight tube the target is here just for a instant, then it al goes to the color of the background on the target.

  So now let’s try something different, make bigger holes for the rear and the front of the site tube.

 

 

  What the blankkkkk. Now I can see the target at 100 yards or less.

 

  To give you my thoughts.  It is like trying to see the target at 100 yards with a spotting scope set to 60 power looking at a target. Sorta like darrn frustration to say the least.

 

 

   Allen 

Edited November 28, 2021 by Wrknrvr

[Wrknrvr]

   Well yesterday at the range with my crude, but larger circular front sight and it worked really good.  I fired three rounds with a Maxi ball bullet. They were close together ,but they were off to the left bad. At 50 yards.

  So I quit at that, as that front sight was crude and it was off center. So will make a good one next week. Also the first shot the scope tube hit my glasses.

  So that gave me more thoughts on keeping my eye so close.  I have a new idea for the tube scope. But I need to get macular degeneration shots today.  Real fun so it is.

  Will have more technical stuff by Wednesday next week.

 

 I am still laughing about the stunt that Vern guy pulled yesterday.

 

  Stay safe,   Allen

Edited December 3, 2021 by Wrknrvr

[Wrknrvr]

It is hard to imagine how much thought I have put into this type of sights. Yesterday I had a rifle with this style sights on it that worked great. Then Allen had used the same types of sights.

  I still have a really hard time to see through his scope with this style of sights.

  They are all made by me. (Vern)

  I will test what the difference is in a day or two. Then report back with what I think is the problem.

 

Allen

   

Edited December 14, 2021 by Wrknrvr

[Wrknrvr]

   Well I did get back to the range the other day. And as usual Vern was there.

  So I decided to shoot a few maxi balls as I know they shoot good to at least 100 yards. And they did shoot good. I adjusted the sights as it was shooting to the left about 5”@80 yards. I finally got it on target . At least close enough to try a new bullet in the muzzleloader.

  Now since I am learnng about paper patching bullets , I have learned that they can not act like you think they should. I always thought a bullet has got to touch the rifling in the barrel to shoot better than buckshot. How the heck can a bullet shoot accurately when it slides down the barrel.

  The 460 grain bullet I have to use is sized at .441 and then paper patched to .459

  My barrel is .451 between the lands.   Just how can a bullet with that much free space shoot true.

    Well it does. I tried several at 100 yards, and there was no tumbling of the bullets. Close enough to the center to make me smile.    

  So I did learn how to purify range lead and bullet weights.a few months ago. When you have the lead molten then just add some saw dust or a small amount of paper towel.  It will smoke and the chemical reaction takes the zinc out of the lead.The lead I am using is really soft as I can mark it with my finger nail.

  Apparently the bullet swells at the rear when the charge burns and propels the bullet forwards. It has a odd name like obliterate. One way to tell the bullet swells is the paper patching is sliced by the lands as it travels barrel. It needs to fall off the bullet when it leaves the barrel.

 

    So there is a target at 200 yards. I load a new paper patched .459 diameter bullet. Squeeze the trigger and the bullet hits maybe 15” low but on center.

   Now that I have a bullet that shoots good. It might be time to up the powder charge the next time out at the range.

 

Till next time, Allen

Edited December 26, 2021 by Wrknrvr

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, Wrknrvr said:

And as usual Vern was there.......................

Till next time, Allen

What???

[Wrknrvr]

Ok Kirk 

  My middle name  is Allen. So I sorta separated the muzzleloader project from the 45/70, by using my middle name for the muzzleloader.

  And my first name for the 45/70 project. This may help explain some of my wording and thinking during this story.

  Vern 

 

 

[Kirk W]

25 minutes ago, Wrknrvr said:

This may help explain some of my wording and thinking during this story.

Nice way to explain talking to yourself! As long as we don't hear any arguments between Allen and Vern, we will be satisfied. ☺️

[Wrknrvr]

  I will say having two different rifles at the range at the same time can get really confusing. Since both of these projects that I am ( not sure how to describe them) are not a manufactured piece. They both have a number of parts that interact too there specific build.

  The muzzleloader seams to have a lot less to figure out. It has been the second rifle to shoot every time I have been to a range. Once I got the muzzleloader to shoot somewhat on target, I have been working to find a bullet that will not tumble, or do anything odd. I even made a bullet that weighs about 700 grains, but it tumbles at 50 yards.

   The scope thing has been interesting. And rather fruustratiinggg. 

 

  Today I made a few different inserts for the 45/70. Different lengths. Still not working the way I think it should.

   But today I am finally convinced that my tube scope idea works.    Just not at a short distance. Like 80 yards.   I have been trying to limit the amount of light that my eye sees when I am looking through the scope.

   That has turned out to be a major problem I do believe.

 

  I need to go,    Will explain more on my thoughts tomorrow 

  Allen

Edited December 27, 2021 by Wrknrvr

[Darryl&Rita]

23 hours ago, Kirk W said:

What???

I thought it was just me, but I began to suspect an alternate personality awhile back. 

[Kirk W]

34 minutes ago, Wrknrvr said:

That has turned out to be a major problem I do believe.

You get way more involved in it than I ever did. I only do modern guns nowadays and I don't hand load anymore. I do like shooting targets. Got to get back out with my son on his friends long range steel targets. Those things are fun with the right guns and scopes. He has them at 100 yard intervals out to 1000 yards. At 500 there is a series of targets of different sizes that ring with distinctive sounds so you know which one you hit. 

Edited December 27, 2021 by Kirk W

[Wrknrvr]

   So I am still doing things on this project. I have made a new rear scope insert for the muzzleloader.

  But more important is let’s say we are in the late 1870’s. Lots of odd stuff happening in the Wild West. People from all walks of life. Indigenous people of quit a few tribes. Mix them altogether as they congregate at forts, or on the battlefield.

 

   Let’s think of what whites mans diseases have came west with them. There was no internet.  Yes they had Telegraph. But if you are on foot or horseback it will be spring to you can get to a office.

 

  Think of what consequences you could experience from that life at that time.

 

  Think about it,    Allen

[Wrknrvr]

    Well, lately I have been just thinking about shooting.  I really think things have got to get better. 

  I still am trying to not go buy a real rifle.

 

   So the other day I was looking at my muzzleloader rifle. Started to really look at what I had built for the tube scope. Now a few weeks ago I did find another metal tube the same size as my scope tube is made of. So now I took the shadow tube off the front of the rifle scope tube and put it on the extra scope tube, with the same sight insert in it. Put a target about 55 paces away on a garbage bin. I am in a camp at the time ,so holding a rifle pointing out from a inside tent. May not be the best thing to do. Also this rifle weighs 13 lbs. good arm and back exercise 

 

    So now I can test different sight inserts while now one knows what I am doing. I put a 3 1/2” dark colored disc on the trash bin. 

   I think that medicine man that Vern sent me to has his stuff together. I can now see the target as I should. I am also seeing more clearly while working on stuff. So I was looking at the scope tube on the rifle and decided to remove it from its mounts and re do what I did to mount it. Then  i mounted the scope better than it was. I did remove a leather shim from the front mount as I was about out of adjustment on the rear mount. I sighted the scope tube to where the iron sights pointed. I had to start somewhere.

   So I went to the range by myself yesterday.

 

   Heck I mist the target completely at 50 yards on my first shot.

 

    Yep I did,    Verm

[Wrknrvr]

[Wrknrvr]

     First of all I decided to use a known accurate  modern bullet.   It is a maxi ball bullet. I used them back in the 70’s when I was shooting a lot.

 

   So in the picture above the 1st bullet missed the target. Most likely over the top.  So I used sunlight to determine that the scope was sighted over the target.     So I adjusted for elevation change.

   Fired again.    You can see number 2 shot.  At least it is on target.   So adjust scope elevation for shot 3&4. You can see how they moved down the target.

   Then I adjusted for elevation and to center the of the target. After number 5 hit the bottom of the bullseye.

  I am finally getting to get my blank together. And feeling better about said subject.

 

    So lesson learned. Use known accurate bullets. At least to get started. Have all scope tube parts installed correctly, the proper sight insert And being able to see the target clearly 

   The weather is turning bad in New Mexico territory for a few days so I will not get to shoot again till middle of next week.

  

    I was starting to think I was really, really barking up the wrong hill.

 

  Allen

       Vern

 

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Wrknrvr

[Wrknrvr]

   Well I have been hiding for awhile.  

    I have been out gold panning. Not much luck at this either. Although I did find a rock that was shaped for cutting, or scraping hides as it fits my hand just nice and has a sharp edge that works good.

   In the next few weeks I will meet Vern at the range. To get a update on his frustration 

   Allen

[Wrknrvr]

     I have been absent this subject for some time.

 

    I have visited a few website. I mean I was at a couple trading post. Forgot to keep this as in the 1870’s.

    I apparently have two problems with my muzzleloader that were discussed?

    First the twist rate in the barrel is 1 in 48”. I will check that again later this week.

    May need a different barrel. With a 1 in 18 twist. 

    The other thing is my idea of making my own bullet molds, sorta missed the point.      Yea I did not understand what was needed for shooting more than say 200 yards.

     The bullet needs to be long enough to stabilize it and have enough mass to carry the energy exerted on it to the distance needed. 500 grain bullet or more. I also have my eyesight back so now I can read a micrometer as needed. I can also understand marking on shot bullets and paper patching results after it is shot. Paper must be on the found within 15’ of the muzzleloader. Or the paper is riding along with the bullet. Riding paper makes bullets unstable in flight. Called flyers. Seen a lot of them in this project 

 

   Darn tough lessons learned. It sure wasssss frustrating.

   I now have a long enough bullet. But since we are in South Carolina, finding a range longer than 200 hundred yards it tough to find. Although I have a lead on a private range.