Why switch to Windows 10 or a Mac when you can use Linux Mint 17.3 instead?

[RV_]

SJVN over on ZDNET has come up with another great "Windows 10 no, Linux yes" type of article. Here are two articles; first his reasons why mint, and then his article on how to install it on a Windows system. Some folks have said they are taking their ball and bat and leaving Windows and some have, most not and were baffled, or decided that changing all their software and hardware for Apple was not while I am all Windows even to phones I am not against any other OS. I just get a giggle from the loudest being ones, as usual, are the least responsive when asked how their switch is going, as if.

 

Linux Mint 17.3 is the best Linux desktop operating system and it might be the best PC operating system, period, for you.

 

Excerpt:

 

"My buddy David Gewirtz recently wrote about the question of whether you should move from Windows 7 to Windows 10 or a Mac. I have another suggestion: Linux. Specifically Linux Mint 17.3, Rosa, with the Cinnamon desktop.

 

Yes, I'm serious. I use all the above desktops -- yes I'm a Windows 7 and 10 user as well as a Linux guy -- and for people I think Mint 17.3 makes a great desktop.

I've been using Mint as my main Linux desktop for years now. Unlike some desktops I could name -- cough, Windows 8, cough -- Linux Mint has never had a flop. Every year that goes by, this operating system keeps getting better. The other desktops? Not so much.

Let's take a closer look.at Windows 7 vs. Linux Mint 17.3

UI Differences

There's really not much. While it's even easier for a Windows XP user to move to Mint than a Windows 7 user, any Windows user won't have any trouble picking up Linux Mint with Cinnamon. There's a Start Menu and settings are easy to find.

 

I regard Cinnamon 2.8 as the ultimate Window, Icon, Menu, Pointer (WIMP) interface. Is it ideal for tablets or smartphones? No. Is it perfect for long-time PC users? Yes.

 

Cinnamon does add some nice features. For example, if you mouse over the Window list, you'll now see a thumbnail for each application. It also has improved performance, system tray status indicators, and music and power applets.

 

What I like best about Cinnamon is that it doesn't get in the way. There's no learning curve. You may have never used Linux in your life but you can just sit down and start opening directories, running applications, and modify your PC's settings.

 

One small feature I like a lot, since I always run multiple workspaces, is that the workspace switcher applet now shows a visual representation of what's running in each workspace.

 

Don't like Cinnamon? Unlike any version of Windows, Linux Mint comes with many different desktops. These include KDE, MATE and Xfce. Find one you like and enjoy,

 

Application Selection

 

It's true that Linux doesn't have as many application choice as Windows does. But, how many applications do you really need in 2016? I do most of my work these days on the cloud with software-as-a-service (SaaS) applications. These apps work just as well on Chrome, my favorite Web browser, on Mint as they do on any other desktop."

 

IN the full article he has charts, pics, screen shots and much more info here: http://www.zdnet.com/article/why-switch-to-windows-10-or-a-mac-when-you-can-use-linux-mint-17-3-instead/?tag=nl.e539&s_cid=e539&ttag=e539&ftag=TRE17cfd61

 

Next article by SJV-N

"​How to install Linux Mint on your Windows PC"

 

Excerpt:

 

"Are you a Windows power-user? You can get and install Linux Mint running on your PC -- either to try it out, or as a replacement for Windows.

 

I think Linux Mint isn't just a great desktop, it's a great replacement for Windows. With Microsoft pushing Windows 10 on existing users, people are starting to explore alternatives to Windows.

I got a number of requests about switching out Windows 7 for Linux Mint 17.3. Here's how to do it.

 

Download Mint

First, you can -- and should -- try Linux Mint before switching to it. Fortunately, unlike other operating systems, Linux distros like Mint make it easy to give them a test run before installing it.

 

To do this, first you'll need to download a copy of Linux Mint, which comes with many different desktops, such as KDE, MATE and Xfce. I prefer its default desktop, Cinnamon 2.8. If you have a 2012-or-newer PC, I recommend you download the 64-bit version of Mint with Cinnamon and multi-media support.

 

Ready your tools

 

At 1.5GB, the download might take a while. If you don't have an ISO burner program, download one. I recommend freeware programs ImgBurn for optical drives and Yumi for Windows for USB sticks.

 

Other good choices are LinuxLive USB Creator and UNetbootin. All of these programs are free.

Unless you're stuck with an older PC that won't boot from a USB stick, I strongly recommend using a USB flash drive. You can run Linux from a DVD, but it's very slow.

 

Giving Mint a try

 

Once you've installed the burner program and have the Linux Mint ISO file in hand, use the burner to put the ISO image to your disc or USB stick. If you're using a DVD -- Mint is too big to fit on a CD -- check your newly burned disc for errors.

 

Over the years, I've had more problems with running Linux and installing Linux from DVDs from bad discs than all other causes combined."

 

He goes on giving step by step instruction and pics screen shots etc. EZ and all here: http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-install-linux-mint-on-your-windows-pc/?tag=nl.e539&s_cid=e539&ttag=e539&ftag=TRE17cfd61

[justRich]

I have a question about these alternative operating systems such as Linux or Ubuntu.

Will those OS run legacy Windows software such as Streets & Trips, Lightroom, DesignCadd, Corel Paintshop Pro, Word, etc.

???

 

[Mark and Dale Bruss]

As a person who helps a lot of users with PCs, I don't do Linux. There is a lot of Google help for Windows. There is far more support for Windows.

 

Linux is fine if you like playing with computers. Windows is fine people who just want to use your PC.

[Bill Joyce]

I have a question about these alternative operating systems such as Linux or Ubuntu.

Will those OS run legacy Windows software such as Streets & Trips, Lightroom, DesignCadd, Corel Paintshop Pro, Word, etc.

???

 

No. You have to find equivalent programs and in many cases, such programs do not exist or are more limited than what you can find on Windows, or Mac. I know, I have run Linux, including a current machine running Linux Mint, for decades and still run Windows as my main machine.

[RV_]

No Rich they won't run those programs alone. I am not a Linux type, but with Kirk and others talking about how they are leaving Windows for Apple or Linux I thought I'd help when I saw these Steven J. Vaughn-NIchols articles on ZDNET.

 

I only used Linux to play with a Raspberry Pi under Raspberry Debian for a few months then got tired of it. I also used it for a limited time for making rescue disks years ago, but found the Windows tools more reliable. I also used it for password breaking when I had an employee decide to risk our network by loading social media on my network in 2006 and changing the password for his stand alone workstation. (He later left before he was fired) I never relied on it because it is not compatible alone at all with any Windows programs not designed for it specifically. Microsoft is porting Office and other Windows programs over to iOS and Android which is the Linux kernel too, as well as OSX versions we already saw.

 

I believe you can dual boot, but then you'd have an older vulnerable version of Windows loaded on your machine. I don't know if you can dual boot current Windows and Linux, and then run XP in a VM under the Linux side.

 

The best looking solution is Wine. Go here and read about it: https://www.winehq.org/ Like all things Linux I can't be much of a resource, as I agree with Mark and am no longer interested in futzing around with my system nor bragging rights over other users. I think a lot of folks who do haven't used Windows as their primary computer since the days before XP SP3, or only that far as a daily system. I hear a lot about infections but again rarely see any attacks on my systems and those fail at the updated system and my 1- 2 punch of Windows Defender and Malwarebytes Premium (active scanning, not the free version) used alongside Defender, all Windows updates, and new hardware supported UEFI and safe boot. I do all the Windows updates, problematic or not as they've fixed the bad patches within a week, and the worst of the bad updates only forced my Office 2010 Outlook program to operate in safe mode. It still worked fine but looked weird for three days until they issued a new patch. But the possibility of a reverse engineering zero day without the patch seems the higher risk. But I am not using Enterprise one off software and weird or old software hardware.

 

Mark I'm with you. I prefer to buy what I need and am past the days of my 20's - mid 50s. I remember staying up all night with a Sony CD recorder when they first came out for around 300 bucks all night making coasters and redoing the setup until it worked. It was a 1X with no buffer over or underrun protection. Or screening through registries manually looking for changed settings. I'd look up and hours had passed, many times making my workday one with no sleep. Now the thought of that makes me yawn. Yes I can spend hours with a weird issue, but prefer not to.

 

Windows today has an advantage that seems to be missing with a some of the users of other OS'. In some OS groups when there is a problem, instead of helping fix the problem, they try to blame the user. Their own users make it painful to do anything but take abuse as if a vulnerability was the users fault. That is becoming less so in the Apple world because they have a lot of ex Windows XP users that are used to the company being open about problems, not hiding them, and users helping each other openly without implying anyone should feel stupid/inferior.

 

And that is where Windows shines to me. Windows users are not, by and large, feeling like a persecuted minority, with a sense of superiority. Of the desktop and laptop market Windows still has about 90%. Apple has about 10% and Linux about 1.5-2.5% but that could be a bit higher or lower at any given time. We don't turn on each other and try to fix the blame instead of fixing the problem. I think lots of Windows folks are like me. We came up through all the command line systems of the early 80s, used the early Macs, ( Yes Southern Illinois University used the latest greatest computer systems to teach their Industrial Engineering courses in numeric controls and CAD/CAM classes using Apple Macs in 1986! I never used a mouse until that experience and remember sitting there moving the cursor around and hoping I could find a command line screen but that wasn't happening. But I had to use it to pass. So I used my MSDOS IBM 286 AT system at home, and struggled to learn enough about the Mac to get by the drawings I was required to do on it.) That's funny because I even resisted Windows for workgroups 3.1 in the AF when we got it in 1993 or 4. I refused to learn Word for six months because I could still load DOS programs like WordStar and dBase. But that early Mac experience really soured me on desktops and mice. But I switched to GeoWorks by Berkeley Softworks on my last Commodore system and got used to a mouse and desktop. I then bought the MSDOS version as it was a desktop with mouse that was stable and did real multitasking, when MS was still simulating multitasking. IT was great and prepared me for the desktoip but I could still use command lines and DOS so was happy at home switching to it from DR DOS 6, when Quarterdeck Software's QEMM upper memory management software was my best friend. I used Windows 3.1 at the office and then Windows 95 and Office 95 when I finally gave in, learned the mouse and the laser and inkjet printers rather than the dot matrix loud printers, even though I missed the folded tractor fed paper in a box underneath until that dang HP Laserjet printer stopped jamming at work. I only switched at home back to a laser All in one Brother DCP-7065DN network printer two years ago. Gawd I am glad to be out of the $8000.00 a gallon inkjet ink. IT runs the after market RoseWill replacement toner cartridges that go on sale fpor $14.99 occasionally and I have five stored after using one in two years. It scans in color fine, and we zip files between us here now that my SH has decided she does not need to print invoices and every website and now can store and find everything digital. Folders are now her friend.

 

So try it out with a USB or disk that runs alone without changing your system and see what you think.

[RV_]

Hi Bill!

I have a really heavy but very nice running XP system that I was going to donate to Goodwill but I think I will install Linux Mint with Cinnamon on it according to SJVN's articles when I get a chance. The dang desktop alone weighs 25 pounds or so. I don't remember them being this heavy! I published a list of open source free programs I load on all my for sale Windows systems, could you post a list of the most newbie Windows user friendly programs to try first. I believe that Libre Office Has a Linux version, what about security and Utilities like CCleaner? Or they may already be on the Mint/Cinnamon system.

 

I have two more of our own computers to transfer files and photos from to the replacement tablet and desktop then Wipe the drives and factory restore and build them for sale.

[skp51443]

You can run some Windows applications on Linux using wine or Crossover Office, check the supported lists to see if what you want is available.

 

Wine: https://dl.winehq.org/wine/docs/en/wineusr-guide.html

 

Crossover: https://www.codeweavers.com/products/crossover-linux

 

Aside from dual booting you can also run a virtual machine on Linux with Windows inside it or run Oracle's Virtualbox with Windows inside. A bit more complicated to get going but much more flexible than the dual either-or boot method.

 

Just a side note, Linux is the operating system and almost always includes a lot of supporting programs from GNU. Very few people actually run a basic Linux system, instead they opt for a packaged version (distribution) that includes a graphic user interface (beyond the basic Xwindows that comes with Linux) as well as a lot of user programs ranging from games to office applications, usually many hundreds of them. Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, Mint, Arch and the like are distributions, again a huge number aimed at different skill levels and interests, DistroWatch has the best list I've seen.

 

DistroWatch: http://distrowatch.com/

 

If you just want to fool with Linux you can grab a copy that will run from a DVD or from a USB thumb drive without disturbing your Windows system.

[RV_]

Deja Vu all over again!

[justRich]

No. You have to find equivalent programs and in many cases, such programs do not exist or are more limited than what you can find on Windows, or Mac. I know, I have run Linux, including a current machine running Linux Mint, for decades and still run Windows as my main machine.

Thanks Bill. I'll keep at least one machine isolated from the internet with it's valuable production software intact.

[Biker56]

 

Linux Kernel Exploit Gives Hackers a Back Door

 

[Dutch_12078]

Linux Kernel Exploit Gives Hackers a Back Door

 

Are you aware that your link refers to a 5 year old exploit that was fixed within days of it becoming known?

[Biker56]

 

It shows that Linux can and has been hacked and it's not only a Window thing to be hacked.

 

 

 

Learn about Linux Hacking Tools, How to Stop Hackers. This may be newer.

 

[Dutch_12078]

It shows that Linux can and has been hacked and it's not only a Window thing to be hacked. Learn about Linux Hacking Tools, How to Stop Hackers. This may be newer.

 

I don't think anyone has said Linux can't be hacked. Do you really want to compare exploit counts between Windows and Linux? With the majority of Linux users not running with root privileges, the risks of a successful hack are much lower than for Windows users. Even Microsoft runs Linux for their cloud servers with good reason.

[skp51443]

Most Linux users (home or professional) don't even turn on the security they have available, free and only needing a couple clicks to enable. It does take a bit more work to get it configured, a bit more for the NSA SE package than for AppArmor but neither are rocket science. I've never seen a Linux system with an Anti virus installed (although at least one is included in most basic distributions) unless it was acting as a mail or file server for Windows systems.

 

It takes a bit of work to dig into the usual "click bait" type Linux security reports to see what the actual issue involved is as well as seeing what systems are vulnerable but if you are serious about the issue and not just into spreading the click bait reporting it needs to be done. There have been big problems with Linux that got far less attention than they deserved because so many Linux folks just filter out most reports in the popular press and websites as more "crying wolf" to draw visitors and get more ad views. Too often old, long patched problems, problems with specific and often rarely installed programs or mis-configurations that break security are reported in glaring headlines when anyone taking routine updates has had the fix for days to months, the issue only impacts folks running a $100,000.00 licence cost per year application or Snuffy installed something very wrong and/or used the password 12345.

 

What most Linux users do varies by who they are, home users or professionals. Home users are quite well served by just ignoring everything in the press and just letting their system pick up any updates that are available, my current boxes check several times per day but that can be adjusted by the user. A step more would be to subscribe to your distribution's security mailing list but most don't bother. Professionals maintaining high value systems need to subscribe to the public security mailing list and possibly contact their vendor to see if there is a private advanced information security list that they can qualify for. For the most part professionals will not run an updater as they want to load updates onto test systems and carefully evaluate their impact before tweaking their production systems. They will usually run something that notifies them of updates but doesn't install anything on at lest one system of each type they are maintaining though.

 

--------------

 

Now for a real and serious problem, not security related, that is seeing far too little press coverage take a look at the latest System-d oopsie* that can destroy your motherboard beyond repair. I picked "*oopsie" after considering several stronger terms which are well deserved but really appropriate here.

 

Phoronix: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=UEFI-rm-root-directory

 

 

Running rm -rf / on any UEFI Linux distribution can potentially perma-brick your system.

As a public service announcement, recursively removing all of your files from / is no longer recommended. On UEFI distributions by default where EFI variables are accessible via /sys, this can now mean trashing your UEFI implementation.

 

Also doable on Windows but not by just typing a not-uncommon command.

 

 

Matthew says with about 20 lines of code on Windows, you can cause the same havoc.

 

------------------

 

Nothing is perfect, pick what you want.

[Aggie79-82a]

A lot of work here. I like my Mac. It just works. Gave up playing with PC's when I retired.

[skp51443]

I've sent a number of folks off to Apple over the years but it isn't cheap or as simple as it could be either. These days I'm sending folks with minimal needs in the direction of a ChromeBook in 10 or 14 inch screens or a ChromeBox that uses their old big flatscreen, keyboard and mouse. They are pretty cheap and work really well for e-mail and web surfing although it ad-blocking isn't as good as you can get on a PC or Apple system.

 

 

ChromeBooks: http://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_10?url=search-alias%3Dcomputers&field-keywords=chromebook&sprefix=chromebook%2Caps%2C196

 

ChromeBoxes: http://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_9?url=search-alias%3Dcomputers&field-keywords=chromebox&sprefix=chromebox%2Ccomputers%2C192&rh=n%3A541966%2Ck%3Achromebox

[TheDuke]

"Professionals maintaining high value systems need to subscribe to the public security mailing list and possibly contact their vendor to see if there is a private advanced information security list that they can qualify for. For the most part professionals will not run an updater as they want to load updates onto test systems and carefully evaluate their impact before tweaking their production systems. They will usually run something that notifies them of updates but doesn't install anything on at lest one system of each type they are maintaining though."

 

Gee isn't this what Windows professional users do? I guess according to you, linux systems have the same issues regarding security as every other OS available.

Question 1, why is there a "public security mailing list" if linux systems are so secure?

 

Question 2. "my current boxes check several times per day" for updates. Why is this necessary? Are these security updates? If not, why are there daily updates to an OS. Seems to me to be a very confusing system. Even with Windows 10 I don't look more than every 2 weeks for updates.

 

Question 3. "one system of each type they are maintaining". Why in the world would one run more than one linux type OS? And again, linux seems a very confusing system.

[skp51443]

"Professionals maintaining high value systems need to subscribe to the public security mailing list and possibly contact their vendor to see if there is a private advanced information security list that they can qualify for. For the most part professionals will not run an updater as they want to load updates onto test systems and carefully evaluate their impact before tweaking their production systems. They will usually run something that notifies them of updates but doesn't install anything on at lest one system of each type they are maintaining though."

 

Gee isn't this what Windows professional users do? I guess according to you, linux systems have the same issues regarding security as every other OS available.

We never really stayed on top of Windows security notices or kept up with the updates where I worked before I retired, we had too many bad experiences with our Windows machines and the programs we were running on them being impacted by the updates. We tended to go with a "let someone else go first" policy and if there are no screams after a month or so then add the updates.

 

Some Linux folks do the same today, thinking the chance of an update related problem is higher than a security problem from the older code. I'm not so fond of that approach with Linux since setting up a testing machine is so much cheaper, just the hardware costs with no licencing issues in most cases. Also I feel like there are less unexpected issues with updates, not enough to forego testing in a production environment, but less. I think from my reading a majority of the professionally run Linux systems take updates as fast as they can gain access and test them. Home users usually wait for their distribution to publish an update and just take it when available, if they are in a rush there are options to install a patch prior to the update being available but few not doing testing bother to go that route.

 

Question 1, why is there a "public security mailing list" if linux systems are so secure?

No idea why you think Linux is secure enough to ignore security, far too many problem out there that if not fixed as soon as a public notice is made are going to be subject to attack by every script kiddie wanna-be hacker. The public list is aimed at small operations and hobby users, it has enough information to let you know if you have a problem and how to fix it without giving any more information on how to attack the problem than can be helped. Also the public list usually trails the private lists by several days or more so the big players can do their testing and have the high value systems patched before the problem is exposed to the bad folks. This also has the advantage of getting a lot more testing done by the most highly skilled group of users which lowers the risk of a small fry finding they have been bitten by a bug.

 

Question 2. "my current boxes check several times per day" for updates. Why is this necessary? Are these security updates? If not, why are there daily updates to an OS. Seems to me to be a very confusing system. Even with Windows 10 I don't look more than every 2 weeks for updates.

Not really necessary to check that often but since it takes about 10 seconds and has no visible impact on my systems there is no reason not to do it. If I was on a more stable operating system I'd go back to checking daily but since I'm running bleeding edge stuff I am seeing something like 50 to 100 updates per day, I believe I had 4 or 5 security patches out of that lot, none particularly high risk. Something to keep in mind when looking at numbers and frequencies of updates between Linux and Windows is that almost all of your programs are being updated along with the operating system so the numbers of patches are a lot higher. Looking back at today I had a batch of updates due to additional translations being available, a bunch of minor bug fixes to both core and applications, two programs apparently refactored their code and changed both their main programs and libraries and a good batch of updates to the documentation files.

 

Question 3. "one system of each type they are maintaining". Why in the world would one run more than one linux type OS? And again, linux seems a very confusing system.

You may have misunderstood what I meant there but your question is a good one. As to running different distributions there are a multitude of reasons both financial and technical. From the dollars and cents side you can run RedHat Enterprise Linux that comes with a full support package for a pile of bucks or a nearly identical (graphic logos and a bit of text are different) system from CENTOS or ScientificLinux (CERN's version) depending on your needs and spending levels. You can run different distributions if your needs vary between machines, run RedHat on a busy web server or mail machine that is high risk and something far less complex, well supported and expensive for your DNS server or local file server.

 

 

What I was thinking of and didn't communicate well was not different distributions but different functions. A web server needs far different testing than a mail server or Oracle host and by doing tests specific to a machine's functions you can drastically cut back on your man hours consumed by the testing compared to trying to test everything on one system. You can really cut back on the tests needed for small, single function servers too, just test the basics and your application and move the patches to production.

 

 

 

Linux does appear confusing when you look at it thinking it is like Windows, it is a very different way of doing things. Windows is pretty much Windows, you have a few consumer versions and a couple enterprise versions and that is about it. Linux however consists of a fair number of versions of the core system, the kernel and GNU utilities, folks want a specific version to be around for a long time so they decide to provide the support needed to keep their version updated. I think someone is still maintaining a version 2.X kernel out there while most of the works has moved on to version 4. Of course the version numbers in Linux don't work like the ones in Windows either, both are silly as far as I can see but letting the marketing folks set them with piles of powerpoint slides like Windows does or letting a bunch of kernel developers full of beer and pizza set them like Linux does is almost as silly, although I can support beer and pizza over powerpoint slides any day. Come on Linux folks, you really switched from version 3.X to version 4.X because you thought the number behind the dot (3.XXX) was getting too big and you wanted to start (4.0) over?

 

Then you have the user interface, basic Linux has a command line from a text screen or Xwindows which is a pretty clunky graphics system. Most folks stick to the text version for server use, it is a lot more secure on a server since so many less services and programs are running. They do have the option of starting Xwindows and stopping it when done if they really want to mouse around.

 

Then you have a good number of graphic user interfaces that go well beyond the basic offerings of the Xwindows system. KDE, Gnome, LXDE, QT and a host of others that each have an appeal to some group of users. The appeal varies from the load they put on a system, the amount of disk space used, what language they are coded in, appearance, what programs are available with a native appearance versus ones that look a bit odd since they are designed for a different desktop system. A bunch of other reasons I'm sure but I can't think of them all.

 

Past that you have options on stability, something like OpenSuse 13.2 or the soon expiring 13.1 are pretty stable seeing only a few security updates and an occasional bug fix. While OpenSuse 42.1 (yep, beer and pizza are probably at fault again) the version that follows 13.2 is a lot more active as it has added a host of new features that aren't bug free. Then you have the option to pick additional sources for updates, less tested and having the very latest of both the desktop and application programs that are in constant flux. That is what I'm using here and the reason for my large number of updates. On the other hand as I desire the quiet and tranquility to take a nap or bath uninterrupted the wife and my mom are on 13.2 with none of the updates beyond the basics enabled.

 

You also have stability options of a similar nature in other distributions and you trade fresh and new with lots of updates against safe and stable with few updates, pick your flavor or since Linux is easy to multi-boot pick a half dozen flavors and load them all on the same system's hard drive on on pluggable drives that you can pick between as you like.

 

Remember most non-enterprise Linux is free for the download so having a pile of versions and distributions is not an issue. Even switching between them is pretty simple and fairly fast. I installed mom's 13.2 today in about two hours, it would have gone faster but I also fixed her screen door, helped move her big planters, fiddled with her water filter and helped cook lunch. A good bit of an hour also went to finding her favorite games and putting shortcuts on her desktop, uninterrupted about 30 to 45 minutes would have been a better time to expect for the install and another 10 to 20 depending on your connection speed to get all the latest updates.