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What do these emission laws mean to us?


dougw2007

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I have been following this forum for the last few years and now I am ready to move on this. I have started to look more seriously for a truck. But suddenly in my research I stumbled on to the diesel emission rules. It appears that if I buy a used truck today in Idaho or Washington I can drive it around but not in California. And it looks like Oregon is next. I have a friend in California that had a large vineyard farm area. He told me that they were taking d9 bulldozers that were perfectly good running machines and hauling them off the port to be sold as scrap metal to China. That is a bulldozer that doesn't drive on the road and is only used occasionally on the farm. I don't know how true that story is but it doesn't sound good.

I would hate to spend 40 grand on a truck and then have to scrap it out next year if the law goes federal.

I saw something on the forum about motorhomes are not included. Well if they are including lawnmowers and bulldozers and backhoe's what guarantee do we have that the law won't change.

I was planning on having my truck and then being able to tow a flatbed at times to haul a machine or two. This would make my truck a commercial truck and no driving in California and Oregon probably. Then Nevada and Arizona and so on.

I certainly have soured on the whole concept of this after finding all this out.

I tried to call the California air resource board but after an hour on their system I guess all the real live people were on break.

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California has to / needs to honor reciprocating law aggreements with other states. I am doubtful that California would stop an RV at the border or ticket them in the state for the topic of this post. But with that said if they did, I would have no need to ever visit California in our RV. With the current political enviroment in Arizona, California as an example is the last state AZ will or would follow. You will be safe to drive in AZ for a very LONG time! Now if the Feds get involved, again doubtful with the change of the political enviroment, it would be an entirely different game.

 

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

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Doug,

Why would hauling "a machine or two" make you commercial if they are your machines and you are not doing it in a commercial venture such as landscaping or such? The issue of emissions laws in California as it pertains to our use of a class 7 or 8 truck that is registered appropriately had been extensively discussed here. If you are hauling in a commercial venture even occasionally then you are correct you would have to comply with your states requirements and might run afoul of some California laws. If not and registered as Motorhome should not be an issue even in Cali. You should be applauded for at least doing your homework and searching for answers.

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Carl, if he hauls ANYTHING used in commerce, one macine or two, he is commercial. It doesn't matter if they are "his" or not. If they are used in commerce and he is hauling them, he is commercial

 

 

California has to / needs to honor reciprocating law aggreements with other states.

Ok, first, RV's are exempt from California's emissions laws. There are way too many discussions about CARB on here to even start another thread about it. Commercial vehicles from other states are NOT exempt and can not enter California if they do not meet the CARB standards. Chad has posted numerous links to the laws verifying that information.

 

Also, the ONLY things that are reciprocal, unlike the statement above, are drivers licensing and vehicle registration. If Texas (my home state) says I can drive my HDT with a Texas motorcycle license, then California has to allow me to drive it with that license, irregardless of they the California law requires of its residents. But Texas says my truck and trailer can be 65 ft long. If the law in California says 60 ft, then they can and will write me a ticket for being 65ft if I drive through their state.

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I know you are correct B5, the thing that comes to mind though, how far does that go.

I am retired and do not engage in any business, I will not do anything for money or favor.

Yet this --->

 

DSC00209.JPG and this DSC00224.JPG

 

 

Just joking, I know the ultimate answer to the ultimate question is :

Sir, Just explain to the judge that you are building an extreme doomsday bugout site for free with your RV toter. LOL

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Hey, if those trailers are rentals and rented in YOUR name along with a rental receipt for the back hoe, and you have a bill of sale for the container made out to YOU then you may very well pull that off. On the other hand, If the container is full of construction equipment and the tractor and the trailer belong to your friend and say "Billie Bob's Construction" on them..........

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What Big5er said, PLUS, y'all better hope that LEO doesn't look up and notice that you're over height on the hoe. :o

 

It's a pain in the wallet complying with the laws as currently written. I'd love to have one truck to pull trailers on the farm, plus pull the camper. It's actually cheaper to own two trucks and don't mix business with fun.

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Carl, if he hauls ANYTHING used in commerce, one macine or two, he is commercial. It doesn't matter if they are "his" or not. If they are used in commerce and he is hauling them, he is commercial

 

 

Ok, first, RV's are exempt from California's emissions laws. There are way too many discussions about CARB on here to even start another thread about it. Commercial vehicles from other states are NOT exempt and can not enter California if they do not meet the CARB standards. Chad has posted numerous links to the laws verifying that information.

 

Also, the ONLY things that are reciprocal, unlike the statement above, are drivers licensing and vehicle registration. If Texas (my home state) says I can drive my HDT with a Texas motorcycle license, then California has to allow me to drive it with that license, irregardless of they the California law requires of its residents. But Texas says my truck and trailer can be 65 ft long. If the law in California says 60 ft, then they can and will write me a ticket for being 65ft if I drive through their state.

 

Big5er has stated it correctly.

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Essentially the OP's concerns were with the trend of emission requirements. RV's are exempt from the draconian CA commercial regulations, but he feared that OR would be next and that the unpredictable direction of any given state legislature is what concerns him, Oregon might not make RV's exempt.

This state by state, or Federal trend is a major concern of not only the trucking industry, but any industry who uses diesel powered equipment. Even railroad diesel engines will be equipped with DPF filters and DEF tanks in the not too distant future.

The biggest difference is California's requirement that EXISTING vehicles or equipment meet current emission requirements, essentially requiring retrofitting or replacing older equipment with compliant equipment. Other jurisdictions have tried the same thing(NY-NJ Port Authority, states of NY,NJ, MA ,CT ME, and others) but the courts have all turned them down. The California precedent doesn't hold because California has a unique pollution problem that requires stronger regulations to address. The other places have not been able to demonstrate the same need, thus no waivers. Tighter and tighter regulations from the Feds are a given, but start with a given model year, no mention of forcing retrofits, a major political resistance would develop if this were done on a national basis.

Case in point: Glider kits. Brand new trucks built from the factory with pre emission engines(1998 EPA regulation) .Freightliner and Paccar build thousands of these things every year. There is no move afoot to stop their production, the EPA has not shown any inclination to do so, and current political trends make it less and less likely. The trucking industry is voting with it's dollars that these trucks will be legal to use in 47 states for their 15-20 year lifetimes.

All bets are off in trying to predict what future legislation and its effects will be. But buying a used tractor and making it into a usable RV/HDT seems to be a better bet than others dealing with either state or Federal government.

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Ohio CDL rules, exemptions.

 

Cut and paste from OBMV web page. http://bmv.ohio.gov/cdl.stm#tog

 

Nonbusiness Commercial Motor Vehicle [ - ]

  • A commercial motor vehicle that is operated for nonbusiness purposes. "Operated for nonbusiness purposes" means that the commercial motor vehicle is not used in commerce as "commerce" is defined in 48 C.F.R. 383.5 as amended, and is not regulated by the public utilities commission pursuant to Chapter 4919., 4821., or 4923.,of the Ohio Revised Code.

Vehicle Designed for Transporting Goods [ - ]

  • A motor vehicle that is designed primarily for the transportation of goods and not persons while that motor vehicle is being used for the occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation and not in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise
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But the vehicles we operate are NOT "commercial motor vehicles that are being operated for nonbusiness purposes". To me that would be the truck driver who is staying at a hotel until his load is ready and is driving his rig to a restaurant for dinner. I see that Ohio will not let you register an HDT, that has a 5th wheel hitch, as a motorhome, so how will they let you register a really large private truck?

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Sorry to hijack your thread again Doug:

On the commercial registration of vehicles in Ohio we see rules written dealing with weight and not use.

My 4000# backhoe trailer, because of its weight, can only be issued a commercial tag. The tag has nothing

to do with whether it is used in commerce or not, only how much it weighs.

 

Yes you hit that on the head B5, there is schizophrenia in the rules and definitions about commerce.

I can show the very act of driving across state lines is interstate commerce, that is not for this thread.

In fact I can show growing your own food for your own use is interstate commerce..

 

On the 5th wheel and motor home thing, the assumption is made that they intended to mean

DOT spec hitch when Ohio rule says no fifth wheel hitch. We are very lucky that the intent of the

rule doesn't often get obscured by the black letter writing of that rule..

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I see that Ohio will not let you register an HDT, that has a 5th wheel hitch, as a motorhome, so how will they let you register a really large private truck?

 

When I did ours, no mention was made of hitch type. The affidavit had only the four questions listed in my first post. But also, it didn't mention truck, only a statement of "change of title" to motorhome.

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