dougw2007 Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 I have been following this forum for the last few years and now I am ready to move on this. I have started to look more seriously for a truck. But suddenly in my research I stumbled on to the diesel emission rules. It appears that if I buy a used truck today in Idaho or Washington I can drive it around but not in California. And it looks like Oregon is next. I have a friend in California that had a large vineyard farm area. He told me that they were taking d9 bulldozers that were perfectly good running machines and hauling them off the port to be sold as scrap metal to China. That is a bulldozer that doesn't drive on the road and is only used occasionally on the farm. I don't know how true that story is but it doesn't sound good. I would hate to spend 40 grand on a truck and then have to scrap it out next year if the law goes federal. I saw something on the forum about motorhomes are not included. Well if they are including lawnmowers and bulldozers and backhoe's what guarantee do we have that the law won't change. I was planning on having my truck and then being able to tow a flatbed at times to haul a machine or two. This would make my truck a commercial truck and no driving in California and Oregon probably. Then Nevada and Arizona and so on. I certainly have soured on the whole concept of this after finding all this out. I tried to call the California air resource board but after an hour on their system I guess all the real live people were on break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mocroc Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 California has to / needs to honor reciprocating law aggreements with other states. I am doubtful that California would stop an RV at the border or ticket them in the state for the topic of this post. But with that said if they did, I would have no need to ever visit California in our RV. With the current political enviroment in Arizona, California as an example is the last state AZ will or would follow. You will be safe to drive in AZ for a very LONG time! Now if the Feds get involved, again doubtful with the change of the political enviroment, it would be an entirely different game. rocmoc n AZ/Mexico Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Maker Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Well, you need to do a lot more reading from the last couple of months, but basically, and until it changes all over the place (which may never happen) RVs are exempt. Yes, even in CA. Rocky & Sheri Rhoades '01 Volvo 770 2016 DRV Mobile Suites, HoustonHERO Makers Ministry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuiteSuccess Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Doug, Why would hauling "a machine or two" make you commercial if they are your machines and you are not doing it in a commercial venture such as landscaping or such? The issue of emissions laws in California as it pertains to our use of a class 7 or 8 truck that is registered appropriately had been extensively discussed here. If you are hauling in a commercial venture even occasionally then you are correct you would have to comply with your states requirements and might run afoul of some California laws. If not and registered as Motorhome should not be an issue even in Cali. You should be applauded for at least doing your homework and searching for answers. 2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding" 2017 DRV 39DBRS3 2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty" "Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big5er Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Carl, if he hauls ANYTHING used in commerce, one macine or two, he is commercial. It doesn't matter if they are "his" or not. If they are used in commerce and he is hauling them, he is commercial California has to / needs to honor reciprocating law aggreements with other states. Ok, first, RV's are exempt from California's emissions laws. There are way too many discussions about CARB on here to even start another thread about it. Commercial vehicles from other states are NOT exempt and can not enter California if they do not meet the CARB standards. Chad has posted numerous links to the laws verifying that information. Also, the ONLY things that are reciprocal, unlike the statement above, are drivers licensing and vehicle registration. If Texas (my home state) says I can drive my HDT with a Texas motorcycle license, then California has to allow me to drive it with that license, irregardless of they the California law requires of its residents. But Texas says my truck and trailer can be 65 ft long. If the law in California says 60 ft, then they can and will write me a ticket for being 65ft if I drive through their state. MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.~It's my tolerance to idiots that needs work.~ 2005 Volvo 780 VED12 465hp / Freedomline transmission singled mid position / Bed by Larry Herrin2018 customed Mobile Suites 40KSSB3 2014 smart Fortwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuiteSuccess Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 deleted reply. After seeing Dave's post 2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding" 2017 DRV 39DBRS3 2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty" "Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dascom Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 I know you are correct B5, the thing that comes to mind though, how far does that go. I am retired and do not engage in any business, I will not do anything for money or favor. Yet this ---> and this Just joking, I know the ultimate answer to the ultimate question is : Sir, Just explain to the judge that you are building an extreme doomsday bugout site for free with your RV toter. LOL Yamaha V-Star2007 Kenworth T2000 tandem aircutterThermoKing TriPack2003 Holiday Rambler 36' Presidentialshort trips-88 Allegro on Astro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuiteSuccess Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Oops, guess Dave posted my example. 2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding" 2017 DRV 39DBRS3 2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty" "Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big5er Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Hey, if those trailers are rentals and rented in YOUR name along with a rental receipt for the back hoe, and you have a bill of sale for the container made out to YOU then you may very well pull that off. On the other hand, If the container is full of construction equipment and the tractor and the trailer belong to your friend and say "Billie Bob's Construction" on them.......... MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.~It's my tolerance to idiots that needs work.~ 2005 Volvo 780 VED12 465hp / Freedomline transmission singled mid position / Bed by Larry Herrin2018 customed Mobile Suites 40KSSB3 2014 smart Fortwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickeieio Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 What Big5er said, PLUS, y'all better hope that LEO doesn't look up and notice that you're over height on the hoe. It's a pain in the wallet complying with the laws as currently written. I'd love to have one truck to pull trailers on the farm, plus pull the camper. It's actually cheaper to own two trucks and don't mix business with fun. KW T-680, POPEMOBILE Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer. contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Heiser Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Carl, if he hauls ANYTHING used in commerce, one macine or two, he is commercial. It doesn't matter if they are "his" or not. If they are used in commerce and he is hauling them, he is commercial Ok, first, RV's are exempt from California's emissions laws. There are way too many discussions about CARB on here to even start another thread about it. Commercial vehicles from other states are NOT exempt and can not enter California if they do not meet the CARB standards. Chad has posted numerous links to the laws verifying that information. Also, the ONLY things that are reciprocal, unlike the statement above, are drivers licensing and vehicle registration. If Texas (my home state) says I can drive my HDT with a Texas motorcycle license, then California has to allow me to drive it with that license, irregardless of they the California law requires of its residents. But Texas says my truck and trailer can be 65 ft long. If the law in California says 60 ft, then they can and will write me a ticket for being 65ft if I drive through their state. Big5er has stated it correctly. 2000 Kenworth T2000 w/ Cummins N14 and autoshift 2017 DRV Mobile Suite 40KSSB4 with factory mods, dealer mods and personal mods - now in the RV graveyard 2022 DRV Full House MX450 with customized floor plan 2018 Polaris RZR Turbo S (fits in the garage) 2016 Smart Car (fits in the garage or gets flat towed behind the DRV when the RZR is in the garage)My First Solar Install ThreadMy Second Solar Install Thread & Photos and Documents Related to the buildMy MX450's solar, battery and inverter system - my biggest system yet! chadheiser.com West Coast HDT Rally Website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyerjf Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Essentially the OP's concerns were with the trend of emission requirements. RV's are exempt from the draconian CA commercial regulations, but he feared that OR would be next and that the unpredictable direction of any given state legislature is what concerns him, Oregon might not make RV's exempt. This state by state, or Federal trend is a major concern of not only the trucking industry, but any industry who uses diesel powered equipment. Even railroad diesel engines will be equipped with DPF filters and DEF tanks in the not too distant future. The biggest difference is California's requirement that EXISTING vehicles or equipment meet current emission requirements, essentially requiring retrofitting or replacing older equipment with compliant equipment. Other jurisdictions have tried the same thing(NY-NJ Port Authority, states of NY,NJ, MA ,CT ME, and others) but the courts have all turned them down. The California precedent doesn't hold because California has a unique pollution problem that requires stronger regulations to address. The other places have not been able to demonstrate the same need, thus no waivers. Tighter and tighter regulations from the Feds are a given, but start with a given model year, no mention of forcing retrofits, a major political resistance would develop if this were done on a national basis. Case in point: Glider kits. Brand new trucks built from the factory with pre emission engines(1998 EPA regulation) .Freightliner and Paccar build thousands of these things every year. There is no move afoot to stop their production, the EPA has not shown any inclination to do so, and current political trends make it less and less likely. The trucking industry is voting with it's dollars that these trucks will be legal to use in 47 states for their 15-20 year lifetimes. All bets are off in trying to predict what future legislation and its effects will be. But buying a used tractor and making it into a usable RV/HDT seems to be a better bet than others dealing with either state or Federal government. Jeff Beyer temporarily retired from Trailer Transit 2000 Freightliner Argosy Cabover 2008 Work and Play 34FK Homebase NW Indiana, no longer full time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wawrd1 Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Ohio CDL rules, exemptions. Cut and paste from OBMV web page. http://bmv.ohio.gov/cdl.stm#tog Nonbusiness Commercial Motor Vehicle [ - ] A commercial motor vehicle that is operated for nonbusiness purposes. "Operated for nonbusiness purposes" means that the commercial motor vehicle is not used in commerce as "commerce" is defined in 48 C.F.R. 383.5 as amended, and is not regulated by the public utilities commission pursuant to Chapter 4919., 4821., or 4923.,of the Ohio Revised Code.Vehicle Designed for Transporting Goods [ - ] A motor vehicle that is designed primarily for the transportation of goods and not persons while that motor vehicle is being used for the occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation and not in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big5er Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 But the vehicles we operate are NOT "commercial motor vehicles that are being operated for nonbusiness purposes". To me that would be the truck driver who is staying at a hotel until his load is ready and is driving his rig to a restaurant for dinner. I see that Ohio will not let you register an HDT, that has a 5th wheel hitch, as a motorhome, so how will they let you register a really large private truck? MY PEOPLE SKILLS ARE JUST FINE.~It's my tolerance to idiots that needs work.~ 2005 Volvo 780 VED12 465hp / Freedomline transmission singled mid position / Bed by Larry Herrin2018 customed Mobile Suites 40KSSB3 2014 smart Fortwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dascom Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Sorry to hijack your thread again Doug: On the commercial registration of vehicles in Ohio we see rules written dealing with weight and not use. My 4000# backhoe trailer, because of its weight, can only be issued a commercial tag. The tag has nothing to do with whether it is used in commerce or not, only how much it weighs. Yes you hit that on the head B5, there is schizophrenia in the rules and definitions about commerce. I can show the very act of driving across state lines is interstate commerce, that is not for this thread. In fact I can show growing your own food for your own use is interstate commerce.. On the 5th wheel and motor home thing, the assumption is made that they intended to mean DOT spec hitch when Ohio rule says no fifth wheel hitch. We are very lucky that the intent of the rule doesn't often get obscured by the black letter writing of that rule.. Yamaha V-Star2007 Kenworth T2000 tandem aircutterThermoKing TriPack2003 Holiday Rambler 36' Presidentialshort trips-88 Allegro on Astro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickeieio Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I see that Ohio will not let you register an HDT, that has a 5th wheel hitch, as a motorhome, so how will they let you register a really large private truck? When I did ours, no mention was made of hitch type. The affidavit had only the four questions listed in my first post. But also, it didn't mention truck, only a statement of "change of title" to motorhome. KW T-680, POPEMOBILE Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer. contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.