oldjohnt

Ken I believe the same, I prefer a Soft Start (only) be located with the AC. NOT having the schematic, it's my best engineers guess ITS MORE COMPLEX THAN PF CORRECTION ONLY. Heck if that's all it was any of us could buy a cheap capacitor and stick it on the AC. Perhaps they use capacitors and triggered SCR's to ramp up current versus the huge initial spike ??? From what I've read and based on test results conducted by people I trust, it's my opinion they do indeed work and I may be purchasing one myself but NOT that All in One unit... Nice sparky chatting with all you gents John T Long retired n rusty EE

Thats indeed true, PLUS a monitor and Blue Tooth equipped, FWIW as I already posted, one user describes it as 4 PRODUCTS IN ONE ........ (53) SoftStartUP: Plug & Play Soft Start is 4 Products in 1 | RV Life - YouTube Take care Glenn John T

NICE JOB, You do good work thanks for posting. I chose not to carry one, with my system the two of us can GO maybe 12 to 14 days before we need to dump, and that's usually long enough in one location anyway given our lifestyle choice. I enjoyed the video. Best wishes, John T

Make that X3 from another engineer. I have searched but yet to find an internal schematic and doubt they would publish it. For now, I'm stickin with an onboard AC unit if and when I purchase. Fun thread for us sparkies lol John T BSEE,JD

Hi again Kirk, hope alls well down your way, I hope to be there again in November...Well I took the time to search for more information, and despite the fact that NO I have no personal knowledge (and it doesn't appear anyone else here has to date WELL DRATS yet still good techy discussions) I did find a couple reviews of people who have used one of the latest All-In-One Soft Start & Surge Protector which hopefully may help you in the meantime. I think this is the unit you are asking about ??? Like you, I'm skeptical, and at this time I stand by my original answer above and would prefer an up top Soft Start directly connected to my AC's Start and Capacitor Circuit, but that's just me. Here a couple people who have used the All-In-One Soft Start plus Surge Protector THEIR REPORT (possibly biased and questionable/limited testing?) NOT MINE, TAKE OR LEAVE AT YOUR OWN RISK (53) SoftStartUP: Plug & Play Soft Start is 4 Products in 1 | RV Life - YouTube (53) RV INDUSTRY GAME CHANGER with ZERO INSTALL // SoftStartUP // Run Your AC Using Almost ANYTHING - YouTube Hope this helps, best wishes Kirk take care John T

Hey Lou, I remember such technology as well. Far back in the day we were utilizing Power Factor Correction Capacitors and other such devices to help offset all our highly inductive and motor loads WORKED GREAT. Best wishes yall John T

Thanks for the update Kirk, Actually, I didn't miss but understood your question perfectly and why I discussed BOTH the general concept of Soft Star technology in general (Read above, looks like I'm NOT the only one who discussed the technology in general instead of the specific unit or had the personal experience you asked for lol) AS WELL AS my bottom line where it's my preference NOT to use any all in one but instead prefer an installation AT THE AC START WINDING AND CAPACITOR. I sure hope this helps clear up any confusion. Oh the imperfections of limited written words on these Forums lol AGAIN No I have no personal experience but gave reasons why I DO NOT prefer the device you listed. Hopefully someone who owns one and has personal experience that you asked for can help all of us Best wishes Kirk, sorry for any confusion, great question I hope you get the answer you are looking for, hey I tried my best, SURELY SOMEBODY THAT OWNS ONE AS YOU ASKED WILL STILL CHIME IN ??????? John T

Thanks for that info. Ive been to his seminars he does good work John T

Kirk, NO I do not own one personally, however, I have studied, followed, read about and watched nearly every You Tube video out there for over a year and FWIW in my rusty old retired electrical engineer's opinion, believe they are beneficial.. With a Soft Start (unless ALL tests I've seen are a fraud) it's possible to start a 13,500 Rooftop AC with a 2200 Watt genset.. I am going to order one for my home AC. They significantly reduce the initial current surge when a compressor starts and instead softly ramp it up and actually take time to learn the starting characteristics before programming the best start curve. Here are a few You Tube vids I watched and like the ones that recorded the starting current with and without the soft start. Again, I can't say and don't know if the tests are a fraud, but so many agree and many are from reputable sources (check out any of Mike Sokols reviews) JUDGE FOR YOURSELF maybe they are a fraud and junk but I don't think so. (52) Micro-Air EasyStart Home A/C Installation - YouTube (52) soft start rv air conditioner - YouTube The original versions you had to cut n splice to install at the AC's start winding and capacitor connections, they they offered no splice spade connection methods, then they added Surge Protection, then they added plug n play at the pedestal (see next paragraph) IMPORTANT NOTE The ones I spoke of and studied test results about were wired to the AC's start winding and capacitor circuits NOT plug n play at the pedestal so how do I know they work as well?? I DONT See what the "experts" have to say and again NO I don't own one so I DO NOT have the personal experience you asked for, hopefully, some actual owners can help us all ???????? BOTTOM LINE if I were to buy one for the benefit of my RV AC I would buy the Soft Start Alone wired direct into my AC circuit and NOT add the surge protection and NOT buy the plug n play. John T Also skeptical but becoming less regarding this device

Good morning Henry, Good advice and diagrams above, I agree with the fine gentlemen. The very basic short n sweet FIRST things I look at if a fridge operates on gas but NOT AC are as follows: NOTE I haven't studied your fridges diagram so part or all of this may NOT apply. 1) Insure there's 120 VAC power at the receptacle where the fridge power cord plugs in (plus its indeed plugged in) and if not check panels circuit breakers and/or if any GFCI breakers are tripped (even if they typically would NOT feed the fridge receptacle). I take it other 120 VAC devices and the coach is okay when plugged to shore power ?? Is the fridge powered direct by shore power or is there some sort of an Inverter involved that's powering it ?? 2) Some fridges have a glass fuse on the circuit board that protects the 120 VAC fridge heater feed. Check that fuse, if it's blown no AC operation 3) This may or may not ????? apply to YOUR fridge, but on some there is a small red push to reset button in the flu chimney near where the 120 VAC heating element is located. 4) It's possible the AC heating element in the flu chimney has burned open (it happens) an ohm meter can determine that. If alls well when switched to AC and the fridge isn't cool there would be 120 VAC at the heating element IS THERE ??? even if so the element could still be bad/open. Also a bad/loose/open wiring connection may be the problem 5) Are there any Auto or Gas or AC switches in the eyebrow panel and if so is it set correctly?? 6) Of course there could be an eyebrow panel problem OR THE CIRCUIT CONTROL BOARD IS BAD. NOTE Usually the owners manuals have good step by step troubleshooting procedures FOLLOW THAT NOT ME. I purposely have not discussed improper cooling, that's above my pay scale lol Best wishes John T

Hey Glenn, sure solar "energy" ALONE could be used to power an Inverter, but with absolutely NO battery backup (and no shore power) relying on solar ALONE (you stand by that ?) as the sun keeps changing so does the PV energy and hey once it sits YOURE OUT OF LUCK LOL. Also the electronics used to convert a constant 12 VDC to 120 VAC is one thing, while conversion of a solar panels ever changing voltage to a constant 120 VAC is more complex. Therefore, hooking up as you say with actually "no battery" isn't something (if manufactured) I want. Perhaps you are thinking along the lines solar alone can provide energy to charge and float a battery and if its adequate ?? the inverter draw isn't depleting the battery ? NOW THAT MAKES SENSE...But NO battery at all just isn't what I'm interested in EVEN IF electronics could Invert unsteady PV voltage (only when sun shines) into 120 VAC subject to energy limitations. I'm just used to solar charging maintaining and floating the battery (even as solar voltage is ever changing) which can store energy when the sun shines while the Inverter functions off constant 12 VDC the battery provides, UNLIKE ever changing with the sun solar panel voltage....... But hey that's just me and MY preference...I guess it can be done electronically, but regardless, IF THERES NO BATTERY, NO SUN, NO UTILITY OR GENSET, THERES NOTHING TO POWER AN INVERTER or power 12 VDC devices... John T

A solar charge controller fed by solar panel energy simply maintains, charges and regulates the battery bank I AGREE WITH THAT,,,,,,,,,. A house or RV off grid is powered by stored battery energy, be it 12 VDC loads or 120 VAC via the 12 VDC to 120 VAC Inverter,,,,,,,,, WHILE SOLAR ENERGY AND THE MPPT ONLY MAINTAINS CHARGES AND REGULAES THE BATTERY subject to it and the battery specs. If I'm correct ?? when you refer as all in one Im thinking (right or wrong ??) is a hybrid pass through Inverter/Charger right ?? It sits there and monitors the batteries SOC and if it needs replenished it supplies properly regulated recharging current PROVIDED ITS PLUGGED INTO SHORE POWER OR A GENSET. If not it just draws on stored battery energy to supply 12 VDC and/or 120 VAC. ALSO some models can when plugged to shore power be limited to how much shore power current they draw like 5 or 10 or 30 or more amps SUBJECT TO the source capacity. If plugged to shore power and batteries are at 100% SOC, the 120 VAC loads are satisfied direct so no battery or inverter are required,,,,,,,,If plugged to shore power and the batteries are low, the charger draws shore power energy and 120 VAC is also supplied. If plugged to shore power and its inadequate or limited (or none at all) the Inverter kicks in to continue to supply the 120 VAC load Im just not sure what your question is ??? You already understand what solar and charge controller does, it charges regulates and properly maintains the battery,,,,,,,,,A charger takes 120 VAC to charge the battery,,,,,,,,,An Inverter takes the battery energy to power 120 VAC,,,,,,,An Inverter/Charger Combo DOES BOTH,,,,,,,,,,,,A hybrid pass through Inverter/Charger does as described above. There are advantages to a single Inverter/Charger Combo,,,,,,,To a hybrid Pass Through Inverter/Charger Combo,,,,,,,,,,,To separate stand alone Chargers and Inverters,,,,,, While the solar panels and charge controller ONLY supply regulated charging to the batteries........ NOTE they also make absolute single ALL IN ONE devices that are the Solar Charge Controller,,,,,,,,The Charger,,,,,,,,,The Inverter........If thats what you mean I need to start all over lol PS Iffffffffff EITHER your solar and/or shore power has brought your batteries up to 100% SOC and they are sitting there floating and shore power alone is running the RV YOU ARENT USING UP ANY LIMITED BATTERY LIFE CYCLES..Solar alone if adequate might?? maintain them floating at 100% SOC and avoid discharge and re charge limited life cycles HOWEVER I have read that for long term storage lithium may not prefer 100% SOC THE PLOT THICKENS LOL Best wishes Glenn, John T NOT a Solar Expert so see what Randy and Chad have to say and rely on them and the manufacturers over my inputs, however I think I'm correct ?? so please help me out if I'm not, I'm never too old to learn I hope lol

Good morning Neighbor, In the many NEC Seminars and Workshops I attended over the years taught by recognized experts and those who actually served on NEC boards IN THIS COUNTRY, they used the term EARTH GROUNDING (for protection against lightning, HV spikes and surges, and keeping the gird at a common low voltage reference IE Mother Earth) and developed and used a common understood term GROUNDING ELECTRODE. When I practiced per the NEC we were required to BOND to ALL READILY AVAILABLE GROUNDING ELECTRODES be it Structural Steel or buried foundation structural steel (and others I forget lol) and if none such existed to a MADE ELECTRODE consisting of one or more rods driven into earth. As above in the case of an RV mounted onboard genset, the RV frame serves as a suitable GROUNDING ELECTRODE... Nice chatting with you neighbor John T Too longggggggggg retired EE so NO warranty, if in doubt consult the NEC NOT ME

Glenn, you're on top of this. Just as one huge Buss works for all the POSITIVE connections, likewise one huge Buss for all the NEGATIVES is a good system and how I have configured mine using a lot of Blue Sea marine components. A good single solid frame bond should suffice. Get this all done and let us know how things perform, excellent I suspect !! John T

Chad, I don't have his Inverter wiring diagram HOWEVER on the units I've installed that was the case.......THE REASON WHY is explained in my post above where I noted THERE IS TO BE ONLY ONE NEUTRAL GROUND BOND per the NEC's Single Point Grounding theory. EXACTLY just as other electrical devices or appliances have any outer conductive case/frames connected to the third wire safety Equipment Grounding Conductor, an Inverter or Charger is the same. This way in the event a live conductor shorted to the case/frame there is a low impedance return path for fault current so the breaker will trip. Again absent his units wiring diagram of the many electrical devices I've installed in RV's over a 50 year span, they had a connection to the frame. In addition as I also explained above, when a genset or an inverter is configured as a "Separate Derived Source" the Neutral is connected to a 'Grounding Electrode" and in an RV the frame substitutes for such. Hopefully we have helped Glenn understand this even if we had to "beat it to death" and bore others lol Best wishes and take care Glenn and Randy John T

Thanks for that info Glenn, well THEY are the manufacturer but using the term EARTH GROUND seems confusing ?? However, I can confirm an external genset or Inverter for that matter when configured as a "Separate Derived Source" does by code require connection to a "Grounding Electrode" which can consist among other things a "Made Electrode" like one or two copper rods driven into mother earth. One other thing I observed in my career is that Electronic and Computer Engineers ARE NOT ON THE SAME PAGE as Electrical Power Engineers and the NEC terminology or understanding. So "ground to earth ground" may not be the best description. Needless to say many of the electrical devices Ive installed in RV's did have a "Ground Lug" and the manuals indicated a connection to a universal ground "symbol" (or perhaps RV chassis) for whatever that's worth........ Im back to ASK VICTRON what to do to be on the safe side (FWIW I'd still wire it to the chassis unless I was told or knew otherwise which I cant determine from here) Best wishes Glenn John T

It's there for education and explanation ........An RV frame rolling down the road is obviously NOT earth grounded DUH HOWEVER it is bonded to the Panels Equipment Ground Buss, call that "grounded" if you like... PS do not feel bad if this is all Greek lol if a person isn't an electrician or electrical engineer or NEC trained IT MAY WELL SOUND GREEK........ YES I consider the RV frame to be "grounded" to say an Equipment Ground Buss or say the Equipment Grounding Conductor YES I would attach it to the RV frame, but its your RV to do as you please AND ESPECIALY WHAT THE MANUFACTURER HAS TO SAY Listen to them not me Take care be safe but most of all do that the manufacturer says !!!!!!!!!! read the manual, dont risk your life or warranty on anything said here, certainly me included John T

Glenn as an old retired power distribution engineer, these type questions are dear to my heart, and although I'm rusty on the latest NEC, I believe this to still be accurate. NO Warranty, if the NEC has changed please someone more current enlighten me, I'm never too old to learn I hope lol FWIW I happen to agree with Randy (Might it be great minds think alike orrrrrrrr even a blind squirrel finds a nut now n then lol) so here is my take on your good question: SHORT ANSWER IS YES, here's the theory as I best recall: 1) There is to be ONLY ONE Neutral Ground Bond (IE Single Point Grounding) and I (as well as the RV and other industry) prefer a Grounded versus a Floating system STILL SUBJET TO OTHER ELECTRICAL CONDITIONS (IE some smaller gensets cone from the factory with a Floating Neutral, others a Bonded Neutral, but that's a whole other thread). 2) Unlike your homes panel, an RV panel has separate insulated and isolated Neutral and Ground Busses (N and G are NOT Bonded) as typically the SINGLE Neutral Ground Bond already exists back in the parks distribution system. 3) If using a Genset or an Inverter configured as a "Separate Derived System" to power an RV and given you and the RV industry prefer a "Grounded System" the "Separate Derived System" would have a BONDED Neutral (NG Bond) PLUS the Neutral bonded to a proper GROUNDING ELECTRODE........If the genset were sitting outside the RV, that means the Neutral would be bonded to ALL READILY AVAILABLE GROUNDING ELECTRODES such as if none other available to a "Made Grounding Electrode" such as driven ground rod or rods HOWEVER when mounted to an RV, the RV frame serves in effect as a substitute Grounding Electrode. 4) Grounding IS NOT the same as Bonding. Earth grounding of the Neutral is for lightning and surge protection and tying/keeping the grid to one common low voltage potential IE Mother Earth. Neutral Ground Bonding is for shock protection and short circuit conditions in which case the Equipment Grounding Conductor is for fault current only and provides a return current path so the fault is cleared.. PS In addition, just as all other electrical devices and appliances have their case/frame connected to the Equipment Grounding Conductor, the Inverters case/frame needs likewise and when you tie the ground lug to the RV frame (tied to Ground Buss in RV panel) you are effectively doing the same again IN SPITE OF OR REGARDLESS ALL THE ABOVE Got it ?? Clear as mud ?? John T (also retired) NOT any Solar or Inverter expert (I don't have your inverter diagram or specs) but believe this should answer your question and hopefully provide some insight

Hi Zulu, sorry NO I haven't, but have thoughts on your question: I guess with proper quality non resistive and RELIABLE splicing techniques sure wire can be changed or totally replaced at the source, HOWEVER: thats 1) Adding one more potential problem 2) Possibly voiding a warranty 3) Given such a SHORT DISTANCE and assuming the design was adequate ?? I doubt much advantage in reduction of Line Voltage Drop if that's your reason and concern ????????? Sure in longer wire run from panels down to controller line voltage drop can be reduced using bigger cable, better talk to and clear it with the manufacturer, it's probably NOT something I would until it was approved. John T NOT any solar expert, see what they have to say

Mornin jen and jon, Sorry NOPE I've never run one to answer your question, but until someone arrives who has, here are a few thoughts: 1) Since an RV panel (unlike homes) has separate insulated and isolated Neutral and Ground busses and 2) Since an EMS or other protectors may go bonkers and throw error codes if it doesn't sense a Neutral Ground Bond, IF NOT ALREADY CONFIGURED (as likely already is) I suggest use of or configuring a genset for powering an RV be wired with a BONDED Neutral.. NOTE some smaller portable gensets come from the factory with a FLOATING Neutral while others come with a BONDED Neutral, but many larger units come BONDED 2) A typical 50 Amp RV park power pedestal is supplied by a 120/240 Volt Single Phase Three Wire (like typical household) service and that would be my generator preference even if other wiring configurations can still "work". Such might come into play if the RV was equipped with 240 volt appliances such as a dryer etc. USUALLY NOT A CONCERN I'm just saying.. 3) Its been my experience a Diesel is MUCH quieter than a loud screaming 3600 RPM gas unit GOOD CHOICE Best wishes, Happy 4th of July John T

Hey there Glenn, thanks for the update, subject to current with such a SHORT distance Line Voltage Drop should be minimal and if those are 10 Gauge Copper Conductors in free air (NOT jacketed or in raceway yielding better heat dissipation with ampacity PERHAPS GREATER THAN 30 ?? check NEC) you should be okay. John T

MAJOR DITTO I have learned from and appreciate Chads help. While I'm NOT a solar expert but an electrical engineer and 50 year RV owner, what he has posted makes sound engineering sense yayyyyyyyyyyyy Thanks again to him and all the fine gents on here willing to help out !!!! John T

You may, BUT I WOULD USE "AT LEAST" 40 AMP RATED WIRE.. However, still subject to the distance !!!!!!!!! PS Sure 30 amp rated will still "work" Here is one among MANY Online Voltage Drop Calculators: Voltage Drop Calculator Line Voltage drop is a function of 1) Current 2) Distance 3) Wire size, which is a good reason to locate the Inverter close to the batteries. Due to the relative small cost increase if you use bigger than necessary wire since the Inverter and Batteries are often very close, I USE AT LEAST ONE SIZE LARGER. The way I was taught when practicing per the NEC was to 1) Compute the Maximum Continuous Current MCC 2) Size wire rated for at least 125% of the MCC 3) Compute the Line Voltage Drop and upgrade as necessary 4) Select an Overcurrent Protection Device to protect the chosen wire gauge. For example, if the MCC was actually 25 Amps ???? since that's although slightly over 80% of 30 Amps, I would use at least 40 Amp rated wire (80% of 40 = 32 Amps) PROVIDED the distance still didn't cause excess line voltage drop.. NOTE this may be considered by some as OVER engineered since the full 25 amps may like NEVER be there,,,,,,,Even if so, 25 is barely greater than 24,,,,,,,,,BUT THATS HOW I WAS TAUGHT PER THE NEC AND THATS JUST ME The FACT remains bigger wire = less voltage drop. Use whatever you please, even if smaller than I would use still works. NOTE what many lay persons fail to understand is a wires rated ampacity depends on temperature, the jacketing or enclosure (and if so how many conductors in what size raceway), the insulation. This means the ampacity of a single conductor in free air IS GREATER THAN what it would be if jacketed. While 12 Gauge Romex is rated for 20 Amps, a 12 Gauge single conductor in free air has a greater ampacity. IE if you use single conductors in free air heck 10 or 12 gauge (subject to actual MCC) might suffice ??? Consult NEC ampacity charts for single conductors in free air. Nuff said, I'm long retired and believe this remains accurate today, but NO warranty, don't take my word for it consult the NEC and consult manufacturers recommendations !!!!!!!!!!!!! DO NOT void the warranty !!!!!! John T

Nice technology progression Zulu, the freedom afforded by Solar keeps getting better all the time, even if sure expensive on the front end. Like you, I've installed several systems all on my own and for example I started yearssssssssssssss ago (50 year RV owner) with an automotive battery, RV Marine battery, Two 6 volt deep cycle golf cart batteries, added solar (years ago my first panel was 50 watts wooooooo hooooooo lol) Four deep cycle 6 volt batteries and more solar,,,,,AGM batteries and more solar,,,,,,,,,NOW LITHIUM BATTERIES AND YET MORE SOLAR............... And NEVER going back Its my opinion Victron makes quality equipment CONGRATULATIONS, John T NOT any solar expert but know what I like and what works for me...

Being located next to the water heater can contribute to raising the ambient temperature in the immediate area, but many have adequate foam insulation so I don't see it as all that significant, but I just can't say from here. I agree with Kirk in that of you switch over to propane THAT WILL REDUCE CURRENT DRAW AND LESSEN VOLTAGE DROP PERHAPS ALLOWING THE AC TO FUNCTION WITHOUT TRIPPING THE BREAKER ???? Maybe running BOTH the AC and an elec water heater at the same time IS THE PROBLEM (Great suggestion Kirk !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) but if there's adequate voltage to the RV while under load ?? you should still be able to run an AC plus an elec water heater at the same time no problem If the above isn't the problem ??? and ifffffffffff EITHER cooling the Converter OR switching it off allows the AC to run and not trip the breaker, Im back to LOW VOLTAGE as a possible cause, be it at the Pedestal or voltage drops at other locations. Try turning off Converter and as Kirk suggested try running water heater on LP gas when AC is running and see what happens ??? take two aspirins and call me at the office. Regardless EITHER still contributes to LOW VOLTAGE (makes AC draw more current) as a possible cause ...Maybe even try a new circuit breaker, they can go bad and begin to nuisance trip !!! Having fun yet ??? John T