oldjohnt

Good idea when adding or modifying RV wiring. Flexible vibration loops really help when entering appliances or junction boxes etc. John T

Glenn, sorry I'm late I've been on the road much of the day. As always you raise good questions and remember I'm long retired from power distribution plus things have changed, but FWIW here are my suggestions: NOTE Im talking about additions and alterations below NOT whats already there 1) For RV use I would NOT advise using solid conductor wiring (regardless of insulation/ jacketing) due to all the shake rattle n roll and vibration. Stranded is much more flexible with greater vibration resistance. SURE solid will still "work" its just that I prefer more flexible and more vibration tolerant stranded wire in RV's. DO AS YOU PLEASE ITS YOUR RV YOUR MONEY..even if sold wire works. 2) If you insist on using sold core wiring I would make all splices inside grounded metallic junction boxes ESPECIALLY if you splice (I prefer solder plus compression or possibly WAGO if available for your wire size) solid to stranded wire. I do not like using wire nuts when splicing stranded to sold wire which is why I suggest solder plus mechanical or consider WAGO connectors PROVIDED suitable and approved for the wire you are using ! 3) If you insist on using sold core wire I would use/install a vibration loop prior to entry into any appliance or junction box. Splices in junction boxes (I prefer metal and grounded) need to be in readily accessible locations NOT hidden away !!!!!!!!! As you can tell by now in all the shock n vibration encountered in an RV I just prefer more flexible stranded wiring (even if sold can work). Marine grade wiring is another option yet may be more expensive. When you consider all the expense you already have and how RV's are constructed, I would not go cheap when it comes to a bit more wiring and even if sold works consider more flexible wiring methods YOUR MONEY YOUR CHOICE Best wishes Glenn take cadre be safe John T Live from Davis Bayou in Ocean Springs MS

That should provide most all the energy you should ever need (unless its rainy cloudy days on end) CONGRATULATIONS Glenn John T

Hey there trimster, good questions welcome aboard. I have a Renogy 500 Amp Shunt type Battery Monitor which has performed PERFECT and cost under 100 Bucks !!!!!!!!! The price of solar panels has decreased drastically since I began as well as the many options, brands and prices of LiFePo4 batteries, charge controllers and Inverter/Chargers, do your homework, shop around and check out DIY Solar by Will Prowse over on You Tube for some expert tests and reviews plus all the fine solar and electrical minded gents on here. John T BSEE,JD Electrical Engineer and 50 year RV owner

It's safe and wise to select proper plugs, receptacles and methods to avoid hot exposed suicide cords or connectors. I see a lot of good condition RV extension cords at Flea Markets, Car/Tractor shows, swap meets or Thrift Stores (especially churches) like 1/4 to 1/2 the cost of new WHICH ARE EXPENSIVE grrrrrrrrrrrr. Of course I don't like to use extension cords unless necessary which is rare (often dry camp) and for my situation carrying an extension cord for the rare times its needed is easier then installing additional RV power locations..But to each their own methods and choices, no right or wrong answer to this one. John T A Pass Through style Inverter/Charger is great and typically programmable regarding how much you may or may not choose to draw from the utility. John T

Mornin Glenn, That would be easy peasey using four conductor 6 Gauge Copper cable and appropriate connectors HOWEVER likely seldom if ever even required as center or rear location should work in most all parks. I wouldn't worry about it, as they say "If it aint broke dont fix it" lol......... John T Still in the RV in Lakeway, Texas.

Glenn, the pros and cons of where on the RV to locate your power DEPENDS on the so many different RV park pedestal locations. Of course packing an extra extension cord of 25 or so feet will do the job in most RV parks. NOTE there's an advantage of NOTTTTTTTT having an automatic (Genset/Utility) transfer switch (if one even has a genset ??) as they can fail and/or they can develop burned/carboned/resistive contacts. If you or others would happen to be equipped with a 120/240 Volt 50 Amp capacity Genset and a NEMA 14-50R Receptacle into which you MANUALLY plug your shore power cord you're good to go. On those type configurations with those genset equipped travelers the genset (configured as a Separate Derived Source) is where the SINGLE Neutral Ground Bond is created and the frame serves as the Grounding Electrode. Of course a transfer scheme is required for an Inverter and some systems have that function (along with a method so there can be ONLY ONE NG Bond) built in. You got this John T

Glenn you need to consider if you require a Disconnect orrrrrrrrrrr Overcurrent Protection orrrrrrrrrrrr both. A Circuit breaker provides Overcurrent Protection while a Disconnect provides just what it says. Also they do make Circuit breakers rated for switch duty. If you need to protect wires from the source (such as battery) to a load (say an inverter) that requires overcurrent protection such as a breaker or fuse. Often electrical appliances have their own internal overload protection for their output while obviously a battery does not so you would protect its output wires with a breaker or a fuse. I size the wires to have a minimum ampacity of 125% of the Maximum Continuous Current and then size the overcurrent protection device to protect the wire Hope this helps John T Live in the RV from Lakeway texas

When NOT connected to utility theres obviously no connection of the neutral to any earth ground, however the RV frame serves as a substitute Grounding Electrode. The single Neutral Ground BOND is in that case established in the inverter or genset or transfer switch (remember NO NG BOND in RV panel).. Hope this helps, keep asking those good questions Glenn John T BSEE,JD

Glenn, the answer to this gets a bit complicated and much more than most non electricians think. I cant explain it in great detail here so I will just provide a few basic rules. 1) Grounding IS NOT the same as Neutral Ground BONDING Earth grounding of the utility neutral is for HV surge and lightning protection.. Establishment of a NG BOND with a third wire safety Equipment Grounding Conductor bonded to tools and appliances is for shock protection and to provide a current return only for FAULT CURRENT so the breaker trips and clears the fault and saves your life !!!! 2) There can be ONLY ONE Neutral Ground Bond 3) The utility shore power NG bond takes place in the distribution which is why in an RV panel THERE IS NO NG BOND. Also the utility Neutral is to be bonded to ALL READILY AVAILAVBLE GROUNDING ELECTRODES such as copper rods driven into earth IE knows as a MADE ELECTRODE 4) When a genset or an inverter is used and configured as a Separate Derived System to establish a grounded versus a floating system the inverter or genset or a transfer switch is where the new NG bond takes place. 5) Since in an RV theres no earth ground the RV frame is used for a substitute GROUNDING ELECTRODE. SHORT ANSWER IS YESSSSSSSSSSSSS ground inverters or gensets etc to chassis ground !!!! I just cant cover here what can take volumes to comprehend but I hopefully this is adequate and helps ?????????? If not post back questions Happy Thanksgiving John T BSEE,JD Retired n rusty power distribution engineer but believe this is still accurate

YES unless its wired incorrect !!!!!!!! and if so its a hazard and serious NEC violation !!!!!!!!!!!! The RV frame should be bonded to the incoming AC utility service Equipment GroundING Conductor. If not and there was a short and you touched the frame YOU COULD BE KILLED Thats like NEC 101 Good questions Glenn John T

Glenn NOT a stupid question, you are wise to be curious better safe then sorry FWIW I agree with Randys excellent advice !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOPE unless there's other serious problems and alternate current paths (weird things can happen) the fact your solar panel frames happen to be bonded to and at the same potential as the RV frame should NOT harm you RV electronics, if so then were all in big trouble lol The reason the RV frame (in addition to DC NEG) is also bonded to the incoming AC service utility's Equipment GroundING Conductor is in case there's a Hot L1 or L2 to Frame short there's a fault current return path so the breaker trips..........Same holds true for any shorts to the panel frames......... Bonding the RV frame and solar frames etc keeps them ALL at the same potential so theres no current flow or arcing going on from one to the other PLUS any hot AC shorts have a fault current return path as explained above If you have all your Solar DC wiring over current protected and the proper disconnects and your electronic components properly grounded and overload protected PLUS the solar panels metal frames grounded Id guess (NOT there cant know or say) youre in pretty good shape code wise and safe........ AGAIN Consult the NEC and any RV Industry codes NOT me as Im long retired from power distribution design John T BSEE,JD NOT any solar expert see what they have to say

I have no idea about standards and compliance HOWEVER as a 50 year RV owner and past used dealer its MY OPINION most RV's, especially the entry level, suffer poor quality in manufacturing materials and methods (built fast, light and cheap) but if built better the price would obviously increase.. Even if you had a higher quality build/chassis like an Airstream or Prevost they may have the same usual suspects such as Dometic, Norcold, Suburban, Atwood, Lippert components. I follow the industry and I swear I see soooooooo many often very premature failures of modern gadgets such as slide outs, levelers, power awnings, some of the aqua heat and water systems, on and on and hear horror stories of months repair wait times. If a person had to have all the latest bells n whistles and couldn't do most of his own repairs it would drive him to drink and/or get out of the camping all together. Sorry dont mean to rant n rave Ive RVed 50 years (pretty well made own repairs) still doing it and hope for more years Good Lord willing. When young and raising a family we went CAMPING (coleman stoves, lanterns, camp fires, always cook outside etc etc) however nowadays we RV TRAVEL still love it. Have a Happy Thanksgiving everyone John T Somerville Lake Texas headed to Lakeway for T Giving with my favorite daughter and favorite SIL mooch docked in their driveway, you dont wear out your welcome so fast that way lol

Thats a good idea Glenn for all the reasons I mentioned above. Of course, many RV electrical devices (solar related or otherwise) have a Grounding Lug/Terminal on their frame which should be utilized. Have a good day now John T Live in the RV on the shores of Lake Somervile Texas

Hi Glenn, good questions without getting too deep in the weeds I can only offer some basic theory and information: Its NOT intended to be exact or fully correct or detailed, that cant be covered in a few sentences especially to non sparkies so cut me some slack please. DISCLAIMER for the best answer I suggest you refer to any NEC, Solar, or RV industry codes and standards plus the owner manuals. DO NOT hang your hat on or rely on anything this old retired electrical power distribution engineer recalls, ITS BEEN TOO LONG SINCE I PRACTICED and am NOT a solar EXPERT, so with that in mind here are my thoughts::: YES I advise a solar ""ground system"" (1) For safety,,,,,,,, (2) To eliminate voltage potential differences (keep all at same potential),,,,,,,(3) To bond panel frames to the RV's Equipment GroundING system,,,,,,,(4) Possible surge, HV or lightning protection NOTTTTT the two wire PV output POS and NEG DC conductors.. EXPLANATION What lay people simply call "Grounding" your two wire DC Solar system is NOT the same as EARTH GROUNDING of the Neutral in your homes AC distribution system. Earth grounding of the utility Neutral is for lightning and surge protection plus to keep the grid at a common low voltage reference IE MOTHER EARTH. The RV's conductive iron frame is bonded to the service pedestals EQUIPMENT GROUNDING CONDUCTOR to provide a low impedance return path FOR FAULT CURRENT and shock prevention. The two wire DC solar energy source (panels) are NOT referenced to MOTHER EARTH, its X Volts DC Pos to Neg, NOT X volts to mother earth. Sure the RV's conductive iron frame can be and is used to provide a return path for the 12 VDC battery powered systems NEG by the battery NEG being connected to the iron frame. THAT ALL BEING SAID like any other of the RV conductive surfaces such as its iron frame, its okay to bond the panels frame to the Equipment GroundING Conductror IE the RV frame. That keeps the RV frame and panel frames at the same voltage so there's no potential voltage difference BUT IT DOES NOT CONNECT THE PANELS PV OUTPUT + OR - DC CONDUCTORS TO THE FRAME. AFTER the solar charge controller distributes its DC to the battery bank the 12 Volt batteries may have their NEG bonded to the RV frame as discussed above. If you operate at 24 or 48 VDC those POS and NEG DC power leads can power Inverters or 48 to 12 VDC converters to power 12 VDC coach loads SHORT BASICS Sure "Ground" the frames of the panels to the RV frame and Equipment Grounding Conductor,,,,,,,Do not tie either of the panels PV DC output POS and NEG leads to frame or EGC,,,,,,,,,Use the TWO POS and NEG leads (NOT iron frame) for connection to solar charge controllers,,,,,,,,Sure on high voltage residential or commercial PV systems Equipment Grounding is used but its NOT to use earth as a conductor or to reference the PV two wire output to mother earth, its output is two wire DC GROUND PER THE OWNERS MANUAL AND ANY NEC OR RV CODES AND STANDARDS is my final advice while the above is intended as educational only John T BSEE,JD Too long retired EE but believe this to still be accurate. I am NOT any solar expert, so see what they have to say !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They may agree or disagree and/or hopefully add to this as I remain ever curious and willing to learn........I look forward to their thoughts

And the follow up question would be HOW ARE THOSE OTHER MODELS DESIGNED ??? Oh well no sense beating this dead horse much more absent any hard core engineering specs lol. In the meantime, one can trust Blue Sea engineers their disconnect is adequate ??? Your choice which direction to wire and avoid any high current switching where possible. Of course, if there's little current and/or no switching under load it makes little to no difference... Thanks Glenn John T

AMEN to that. It looks were all on the same page here in that Blue Sea makes great products and an RV battery bank can supply MUCH MUCH MORE current into a load than even a decent sized charger or solar system can supply in reverse, and I would bet Blue Sea designed accordingly........... In my practice I learned of as well as observed what can happen to relay or switch contacts when a high current is interrupted YIKES welding, burning, pitting, arcing, heat and even total destruction !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hopefully Glenn will get some answers from Blue Sea (Engineers NOT sale people) but in the meantime we know to avoid switching under heavy load if possible and wire as the manual says !!!!!!!!! John T

X2 Darryl,,,,,,,FWIW As an electrical engineer and a lawyer it's my experience and professional opinion that's certainly possible !!!!!!!!!!! I have no idea how Blu Sea and the engineers based their design, Im NOT saying, only throwing out possible scenarios and pure guesses. Im sure all agree NOT to switch under heavy loads REGARDLESS if charging or especially discharging and wire per the instruction manual EVEN THOUGH I CANT EXPLAIN WHY ABSENT ANY DATA...Ask Blue Sea why if in doubt... John T BSEE,JD

Thanks Jay, Therein lies the question, is the switch designed/intended to turn potential Charging or potential Discharging current on and off ????????????????? I still say absent any engineering specs or data I would wire it as labeled AND ONE HAS TO ASK THE MANUFATURER for the answer, there's no way any of us can know that without more information. While I cant answer more, I will take a pure engineering guess that it being a switch to disconnect a battery IE a HUGE stored energy source, the manufacturer may have considered DISCHARGE CURRENT to be the primary concern?? Following from that pure guess, if it's true as Daryl and I agree that polarity makes a difference in switch and relay design (I cant know if the manufacturer considered and designed for that or not) he may have labeled it accordingly IE MY GUESS IS HE DESIGNED TO PRIMARILY SHUT OFF DISCHARGING CURRENT (instead of lower charging current) FROM AN ENERGY SOURCE TO A LOAD !!! Hey its a battery On Off switch right ??? Its NOT a Charging On Off switch lol ANOTHER REASON WHY ITS DISCHARGING CURRENT THATS MOST CRITICAL If you consider a huge RV coach battery bank has the stored energy capacity to deliver POTENTIALLY THOUSANDS OF DICSHARGE AMPS, while a typical RV Converter/Charger may only be able to deliver 30, 50 100 or more CHARGING AMPS Its again, my best electrical engineers guess an On Off switch considers and is designed to handle PRIMARILY DISCHARGE CURRENT. Sure if its not being switched or very low current theres little difference, but Im willing to stick my neck out and say the potential thousands of amps of DISCHARGE CURRENT (versus maybe 100 of charging) is the primary concern when designing a battery On Off switch. There ya go, I cant answer a question for which I have no specs or data but I can give it my best electrical engineers shot the design was possibly to switch DISCHARGING CURRENT out of the energy source to loads and I agree with Daryl that polarity makes a difference in high current DC switching design. I gave mine, so now which way do you think is right discharging or charging ??????????? and why?????????? Sorry if this bores the non sparkies here, but I love these techy electrical threads, sorry I dont know how Blue Sea made their design, you have to ask them. I dont know if direction of current flow mattered to them or to what extent they considered high current switching I DONT KNOW IM NOT SAYING ..You guys have to figure it out this is above my pay grade PS Kirk I will be in Longview then Livingston Texas at SKP soon, I will wave as I go by, it would be fun to talk shop. John T Retired but still ever curious electrical engineer

Like I said Looks like we basically agree in theory in that if there's no significant load, it matters little. As far as WHY, I don't have any specs or data whatsoever, but I do recall relay contacts in some situations use different coatings based on polarity, have to ask relay manufacturing engineers that's above my pay grade lol. NOTE I do agree with Daryl who posted: High current switching, especially DC, is very definetely dirrectional. The internal arc chutes are built for a specific electron flow direction. REGARDLESSD not having any specs or data my advice remains as I posted above but believe its a persons choice to wire as labeled ORRRRRRRRRR just the opposite. Its just because even though I lack the data or expertise to explain WHY it matters, when its so easy to wire it one way or the other, WHY NOT GO AHEAD AND WIRE IT AS LABELED ?????????????? Thats what I would do... THANKS for the good questions and fun sparky chat, I hope this helps even if we bored the non sparkies John T Live in the RV from Hot Springs Natl Park

Hi Darryl, Its been a while (long retired EE) but best I recall and observed some DC relay contacts/materials use different coatings BASED ON POLARITY/CURRENT FLOW... As we know current flow WHEN SWITCHING is what's most critical versus just through closed contacts. NOT having any data or specs, it's my best engineer's judgment if such a switch or relay were to be installed MY ADVICE WOUILD BE WIRE IT AS LABELED even if it may work just fine otherwise, and I would avoid as much as possible any switching under load especially high current. John T

Good mornin clash, as I'm NOT any HVAC Technician or a Mechanical Engineer I can ONLY offer a laymans opinion so dont take this as any worthwhile advice whatsoever !!!!!!!!!!!!! 1) Ifffffffffff ???? the heater draws its intake combustion air in the rear where it can take it from the vent leading outside THAT FUNCTION/PORTION OF THE PROCESS MAY WORK AND NOT DEPLETE OXYGEN FROM INSIDE THE RV 2) HOWEVER the products of combustion are still obviously being delivered INSIDE the RV living space I have over 50 years of RVing used different non vented heaters BUT HERE WAS MY PRACTICE. I always left a window and/or roof vent cracked open,,,,,,,,,I always used CO detection alarms,,,,,,I always had heaters or other detectors WITH LOW OXYGEN ALERT,,,,,,,,,,,,,I NEVER used them overnight,,,,,,,,,I NEVER used where combustibles were anywhere near especially above the heat NOOOOOO to answer your question I dont think what you propose satisfies allllllllll venting requirements, maybe the combustion oxygen but NOT products of combustion !!!!!!!!!!! There ya go see what the other fine gents here have to say NON VENTED HEATERS HAVE ASSOCIATED RISKS with combustion oxygen depletion as well as products of combustion BE CAREFUL John T NOTTTTTTTTTTTTT any expert nooooooooo warranty

Iffff you can believe what they said the panel manufacturer told them as to the cause of the fire????????? I still feel safer with an air and cooling gap between panel and RV roof (mine is 1.5") PLUS I believe the efficiency improves if the panels run cooler........Im stickin with what I have now on my 4 panels but hey its anyones choice... John T

Hey Glenn and others, speaking of solar panels and mounting, these flexible flat glued down on roof units (for whatever reason???) caught on fire YIKES I chose traditional rigid mounted 1.5 inches ABOVE the roof for air circulation and cooling underneath. I think that has advantages including increased solar energy harvest by operating cooler but I have no data to confirm that. John T

Good Mornin lappir, I have to agree with Jay and Chad above ... For YEARS on here when this question came up, I always recommended Smart Gauge. SmartGauge Electronics - Interconnecting multiple batteries to form one larger bank HERES THE DEAL Its best if ALL batteries receive the SAME charging and load current and in order to do such Smart Gauge shows different connection examples and the difference in balance or imbalance of each. Their Method 2, while NOT the absolute best, is what many use, I have and it worked fine. If you choose the better methods they describe in 3 and 4 THAT IS MORE COMPLICATED. Whats important in their basic Method 2 is to draw from the NEG of one bank and the POS of the other. Whats important in their other methods IS EQUAL CABLE LENGHS FWIW even knowing how other methods may be at least somewhat better ??? when I used four 6 volt in series parallel I went with Method 2 same as the fine gents above. Remember the bigger the cables and the shorter the cables THE LESS LINE VOLTAGE DROP AND LESS I SQUARED R HEAT ENERGY LOSSES. Best wishes good luck John T