oldjohnt

Good morning Star, great question, thanks for asking. As I recall the PF was available by manufacturers specs or data or on some labels, while on others we had equipment to determine it. PF IS BASED ON INDUCTANCE, CAPACITANCE AND RESISTANCE (ONLY if the load was pure resistance like a heater or hair dryer etc. would Watts be the same as VA). FYI on some motors, or transformer based equipment, power supplies, computers etc. we saw a power factor of maybe 0.8. Then it's non complicated and easy to apply the formula Volt Amps x Power Factor = Watts to determine the amperage so the proper wire size and overcurrent protection can be safely and correctly computed. REMEMBER to size the wire to have a minimum ampacity of 125% of the maximum continuous current !!!!!!!!! There can easily be situations where that Power Factor of 0.8 is enough to make a difference (IE the "common average person" who says Watts just equals VA doesn't get it) and trust me if I overlooked it my boss (an NEC perfectionist) got all over me lol Best wishes Star and everyone here, have a great day now. John T Live in the RV from an Antique Tractor Show in Brookville, Indiana

Thats so true Denny I agree with you 100% you get no argument on that one. Sure lets face it, but I just hope no one (average person) starts a fire or is injured because they figured VA was the same as Watts !!!!!!!!!!! Im sure everyone here agrees with that !! The "average person" who is not a professional electrician or an electrical engineer can figure VA the same or close to the same as watts and if the load is pure resistive THEY ARE RIGHT. HOWEVER if the PF is less than one, as typical for inductive loads, motors, transformers or some computers THEY WILL BE WRONG AS RAIN (hopefully not hazardous) If components aren't properly and in accordance with the National Electrical Code specified BAD THINGS CAN HAPPEN !!!! Sorry if that offends anyone those are just the facts and at every NEC Seminar I attended I learned of a new code change and often the reason it came about was there was a fire or someone was electrocuted (*&^&^% Hey there's a safe correct NEC proper way to do things and there's an "average" persons way of doing things (maybe even half A__ __ lol).. Its THEIR RV, THEIR choice, THEIR risk. I enjoy educating my fellow RV lovers, maybe prevent a tragedy along the way ! Be safe out there and if you're an average person (not a trained electrician) at least consider consulting with the NEC or a trained professional electrician, electrical tech, or an electrical engineer BEFORE you perform electrical work on your RV IT COULD SAVE YOUR RV OR YOUR LIFE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Best wishes I hope this helps, post back any questions and I will be glad to answer. Please do it RIGHT, better safe than sorry... There have been too many RV fires or lives lost because someone took a short cut and didn't perform electrical work SAFELY Lets face it, a person is free to be WRONG (Volt Amps = Watts for average person) orrrrrrrrrrr RIGHT (Volt Amps x Power Factor = Watts) so easy so simple so non complicated and MY choice..I fully support a persons freedom to choose but like to help when I can John T BSEE,JD Electrical Power Distribution Engineer. I prefer to do it RIGHT where electricity is concerned, even if less will get you by ...Yall do as you please.

In layman terms, this is the correct answer. If you want an engineer's view then read what Old John says but like most engineers, John makes it more complicated than need be Yo Kirk, FYI UNFORTUNATELY "750 VA is another way of saying watts" IS NOTTTTTTTTTT BY ITSELF ACCURATE IN EITHER LAYMENS OR PROFESSIONAL TERMS PERIOD... Its just inaccurate not knowing what the Power Factor is. VA may or may NOT be same as Watts !!!! Its true (750 VA = 750 Watts) ONLY if the load is pure resistive WHICH MOTORS OR SOME COMPUTER POWER SUPPLIES MAY NOTTTTTTTTT BE Its not rocket science or actually more complicated for "most" technicians or electrical power engineers like myself to understand these basic NON complicated formulas: Watts = Volts x Amps Power Factor = Watts/Volt Amps Volt Amps x Power Factor = Watts Iffffffffff the Power Factor were unity one as a pure resistive load would be, ONLY THEN Watts is equal to Volt Amps. Sooooooo simple what's complicated about that ??? I hope this helps and I will be glad to explain it more for you if needed, just ask here or shoot me an e mail jmn50@msn.com, I'm here to help. Some of my technicians struggled with Power Factor a bit, but in reality its quite simple and certainly NOT complicated once I educated them. Again VA = Watts ONLY FOR PURE RESISTIVE LOADS which transformers, power supplies, some computers, motors or other inductive loads ARE NOT Best wishes, as always it's a pleasure sparky chatting and Im happy to help anytime I can.... You or anyone does NOT have to take my word for it, consult the many texts and educational materials that explain why VA does NOT always equal Watts. PS Im headed to your great State this fall yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy John T BSEE,JD Electrical Power Distribution Engineer

Hi Big Jim, good question here are some basics: Watts = Volts x Amps Power Factor = Watts/Volt Amps Volt Amps x Power Factor = Watts Iffffffffff the Power Factor were unity one as a pure resistive load would be, Watts is equal to Volt Amps. Here's how Wikipedia explains it: Power factor - Wikipedia You ask: NOOOOOOOOOOOOO however for an example in the event the Power Factor were ONE (NOT the case for inductive loads) if you think of it as 750 Watts and the output was 120 Volts (like a computer may use) that means it can supply 750/120 or 6.25 Amps NOTE a Standard NEMA 5-20R 120 Volt 20 Amp household receptacle is rated for 20 amps, but if more than 80% or 16 amps is drawn long enough a 20 amp Thermal Magnetic circuit breaker protecting it may well trip. When I practiced power distribution pursuant to the NEC, I computed the maximum continuous current,,,,,,,,,,,then sized the conductors to be 125% greater,,,,,,,,,,,then sized the circuit breaker to protect the wire. IE if the max continuous current was 16 amps, I specified 20 amp rated wire and protected it with a 20 amp circuit breaker How much power any computer or device draws ????????????? see the label I cant answer that from here, check the label. Devices that are inductive in nature (motors,,,,,,,,Transfomer based like a computer power supply might be,,,,,,,,, etc have a less than one power factor) in which case Power Factor Correction Capacitors might be used to balance the load in an attempt to make the PF equal to one. Clear as mud Im sure lol John T Long retired n rusty power engineer and codes change SO NO WARRANTY

That doesn't surprise me and unfortunately it doesn't help much. If the extra under the hood battery was originally (although more common would have been a Deep Cycle but over the years maybe got changed) for the Coach, its cables would have been relatively large, while if it were ONLY to start the generator (NOT typical but Ive seen it used in motorhomes, coach batteries were more commonly used to start generators) perhaps not quite as big. Also, some coaches used a solid state dual battery isolator in which case the engines alternator could charge BOTH engine and coach battery or a solenoid that could accomplish the same. Id say you can probably see which battery is for the engine so that only leaves the extra battery in question. Just see if the generator starts and then disconnect one of the extra battery cables and if it doesn't crank then YOU FOUND THAT MYSTERY BATTERY IS FOR THE GENERATOR which typically charges itself like a lawn mower does. If starting from scratch and you have three good deep cycle AGM coach batteries and found the extra battery was for the generator ??? I have NO idea... Id do away with it and let the three AGM coach batteries power the generator. As long as the Solar and/or the Genset or shore power powers your converter/charger to maintain the coach batteries they are fine,,,,,,,As long as the alternator charges the engine starting battery you're fine,,,,,,,,,,Just figure out what the extra battery is for ?? and how its charged ?? is all that's needed but if it works and stays charged IF IT AINT BROKE DONT FIX IT LOL. Even if it works as is and I had three good matched AGM coach batteries which solar and/or converter/charger maintained, I would NOT want an extra non matched conventional wet flooded lead acid in a more remote location connected in parallel with the other three matched AGM;s You may be over worrying or over thinking all this, sure pics may help but try disconnecting that extra under the hood battery to see what if anything stops working, let me know and post back any more questions. This would be soooooooooooooo easy of there lol but glad to help the best I can John T

Good morning Foto, thanks for the updates. The more info you can provide the better chances we have of helping you. A) It sounds correct, typical and as you stated your converter/charger,,,,,,,,solar panels via the Solar Charge Controler,,,,,,,,,,,and generator due to the fact it powers your converter/charger same as shore power would charge your three AGM coach batteries SO FAR SO GOOD It sounds correct the starter battery is charged by the engines alternator SO FAR SO GOOD (In addition some solid state dual battery isolators or solenoid arrangements made it possible for the alternator to charge BOTH engine and coach batteries, no idea if you have that) THE QUESTION REMAINS WHAT CHARGES THE "EXTRA" HOOD BATTERY AND WHAT IT IS USED FOR As I already stated in 50 years of motorhome use and sales in my THIRD NOTE OPTION (albeit rare) I saw a few Generators THAT HAD THEIR VERY OWN BATTERY instead of it being powered by the coach batteries (most common) or the engine battery (far less common). BUT I DONT KNOW FROM HERE WHAT YOU HAVE If ????????? (in line with what Kirk was talking about) your extra under the hood battery was used to start the generator ??????? Remove its cable and see if the generator starts then ?? If NOT that must be its purpose, mystery of extra battery solved. If it still starts fine MYSTERY REMAINS 1) Iffffffffffff the generator uses its own my NOTE 3 option battery, they are typically charged by the genset same as small engines and lawnmowers etc. 2) HOWEVER another option to charge the genset battery if it was indeed separate, is for the engines alternator to also (in addition to charging engine start battery) do that via some sort of a solid state dual battery isolator or even a solenoid arrangement. NOTE typically (but not necessary) the battery used to start a genset (if it were its own stand alone) would be an engine STARTING battery (same as regular engine starting battery) AND NOTTTTTTTTTTT a Deep Cycle. Deep Cycle batteries are common for the coach batteries while STARTING batteries are for engine starting or perhaps a genset??? PROBLEM IS if your extra under hood battery is a Deep Cycle orrrrrrrrrrr a Starting Battery doesn't prove anything grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr While a picture may help, it's hard to say from here what that extra under hood battery is for and what charges it ???????? If (like Kirk spoke of) you remove a cable and the engine wont crank thats the engine start battery...........If you remove a cable (extra under hood battery) and the genset wont crank thats a separate my NOTE 3 option genset starting battery........... If you remove the third under hood battery but the genset still starts THEN ITS PURPOSE AND HOW IT GETS CHARGED REMAINS A MYSTERY Possible uses may be such as: 1) It was at one time used for the coach battery and may (especially if originally was a Deep Cycle) or may not be still in parallel with your three AGM coach batteries ???????? (If so your converter/charger or solar would charge it) 2) It may be for the generator only as my NOTE 3 option mentioned ????????? 3) It could be something else ??? Hope this helps, its the best I can do not being there, so give these tips a try and post back your findings and any more questions John T

Thats for sure, DITTO Ive seen many diesels with two batteries and often NOT side by side. Still, I've seen THREE option/methods to power onboard genset starting: 1) Engine battery,,,,,,,,2) Coach battery (majority I ran across over the years) ,,,,,, 3) Separate battery for only genset (least common but they exist, maybe he has that but no way to tell from here) Oh well not being there and him being inexperienced we can't do much more grrrrrrrrrr Best wishes Kirk, hope us sparkies can help him figure it out PS Fotoheart One more thing. In the event your engine starting battery (if it only has one) is staying charged and all working fine,,,,,,,And as you have three AGM Coach batteries,,,,,,,,,And in the event your genset indeed had its own starting battery (my NOTE option 3 if that's what you have??? I have no way of knowing from here so don't put much faith in this) ONE OPTION would be to do away with the gensets own separate battery (if that's what it has ?) and switch it over to the three AGM coach batteries and let them start it and your Converter/Charger and/or Solar will keep them charged and be able to start the genset (plus you still have your emergency switch if needed to jump engine and AGM coach batteries together). IM ONLY SAYING THATS AN OPTION if all is fine as is no need. Again, I cant say from here what you have SO NO WARRANTY ON ANY OF THIS John T

Hey don't get frustrated, not being there makes it difficult for us sparkies and even us long time motorhome users as well. BASED ON WHAT YOU JUST STATED and taking you at your word !!!!!!!!! Im thinking you have what I described above in my NOTE as the third albeit rare option I encountered over my many years where the Genset has its very own dedicated separate battery, while yours is under the hood versus right at the genset. Again, I saw gensets where the coach/house batteries started it,,,,,,,,,,Where the engine starting battery started it, and the third note option I mentioned above when it had its very own battery. It appears when your genset is running (or most likely also if plugged to shore power) it powers your RV's Converter/Charger which typically ONLY charges the coach/house batteries and that's what Id expect and sounds fine. There are other methods including solid state dual battery isolators or mechanical solenoid arrangements used where the engines alternator might charge similar chemistry engine as well as coach batteries, but Im NOT opening that can of worms now lol. As long as EITHER (both should if working) the Converter/Charger (can be generator or shore powered) orrrrrrrrr the solar system charges your coach/house batteries,,,,,,,,the engines alternator charges your engine starting battery,,,,,,,,,,and the genset charges its own battery, thats all you need. As far as what other schemes you have and how wired I have no idea nor can I say what if anything is draining your engine or genset battery THATS BEYOND WHAT WE CAN DO OVER THE NET NOT BEING THERE. Typically the solar system ONLY charges the coach/house battery and NOT the engine starting battery, so that sounds fine. I have no idea sitting here how YOUR Genset battery is charged, but on the units I encountered with the gensets own battery they were charged when the genset was running such as a lawn mower might do. If thats what it has ??? and iffffffffffffff its working and ifffffffffffff its wired correctly???????? that will take care of the gensets own battery, if not thats a whole other can of worms Nuff said for now post back any questions but realize its hard to figure all this out over the net so NO WARRANTY PS1 as far as the emergency switch, what that does is use a solenoid to basically jump/connect the engine and coach batteries together in parallel. Such being the case, either side can charge (or discharge) the other. IE it can work either way to charge either battery...... PS2 when you stated "Once I replaced the extra under the hood battery, I had no trouble starting the generator. The other hood battery is strictly for engine starting" THAT SOUNDS LIKE your genset has its very own separate battery (my third option per my NOTE above) and I again take you at your word you have a separate battery used ONLY for engine starting......... John T

Congrats on the repair and thanks for the update. FWIW in 50 years of RV ownership plus being a used dealer for some time dealing will all sorts of different makes n models, I encountered some motorhomes where the generator was started using the engine battery as well as others the coach/house battery. NOTE I even saw some where an on board motorhome genset HAD ITS OWN DEDICATED BATTERY right on the genset frame !!!! However I question your other (assuming coach/house) battery is "just for starting the generator" as they are typically for 12 Volt lights, vent fans, water pumps etc. inside the coach........ I do agree as its typical the "engine starting battery is separate from everything else" aside from perhaps if it has an Emergency Switch/Solenoid for temporarily jumping the engine and coach/house batteries together. Hey if it works don't fix it maybe ??? lol John T

On their SoftStart RV website I ONLY see a 30 Amp offered for sale HELPMECHOOSE2a - SoftStartRV Even if the plug n play works (plus offers some degree of surge protection, how much??) I would prefer and choose the rooftop unit wired direct into the AC compressors start circuit, but that's just me. If you had a 50 amp dual AC RV you would need on one BOTH AC's. I see their HUGE advantage as being able to start an AC with a smaller Generator or Inverter that WOULD NOT allow an AC to start otherwise. Sure either helps, but with a good 50 Amp service there's not a problem running dual AC's regardless without having to spend the bucks. NO in response to your question I DO NOT OWN ONE so cant help there. John T

RV, as an old sparky I follow the technology real close, read about it often, and on You Tube there must be hundreds of related videos as well as tests and reviews (including DIY Solar by Will Prowse) of the different Lithium brands out there currently with more coming online. It's a wide open competitive market with some good batteries perhaps others not quite so good ??? Mine have performed perfect as well as other brands as noted by some fine gents on here. Advertising and marketing business decisions come into play I'm sure, with some spending a ton on advertising others very little, which can affect their sales price. THE ONE COMMON THREAD among alllllllll the new emerging battery technologies IS ACTUAL PRODUCTION which may be yearssssssssss from now. At my age I think I will get the benefit from my OLD FASHION lol Lithiums. My daughter bought a Tesla, I can just imagine in maybe 5 years they will have a new and improved battery which may cost thousandsssssssssssss. Thanks for the tip, I will look for it John T Old retired still an ever curious engineer.

There's sooooooooo many emerging battery technologies out there, heck in X years those of us still living may be ditching our old outdated LiFePo4's for Graphene ????? John T

In addition to Lion, Battleborn, SOK etc etc etc that I consider quality brands, I attended a demonstration by Briter, talked to their engineers and they seem to be (no personal experience) a good product. There are more and more players coming online, some good some not so good grrrrrrrrrrr (see what Will Prowse discovered YIKES) DO YOUR HOMEWORK, STUDY REVIEWS AND MAKE A WELL INFORMED DECISION based on your needs and budget. This reminds me of discussions regarding what brand of oil or spark plus are best, lots of experience, preferences and opinions which are all fun and interesting to read. UNFORTUNATELY a completely American made battery might not yet be available grrrrrrrrrr John T Lithium and Solar user and never looking back

It appears that way grrrrrrrrrrrrrr regardless of any brands one might otherwise consider as being built in America ............ WELL DRATS John T

To that I say grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr It comes as no surprise US brands of LiFePo4 batteries aren't totally manufactured in the USA another grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr CONGRATULATIONS on building your own. Will Prowse suggest the same and it can save you some big bucks... John T

You're welcome, regarding your statement I linked above: I can't say from here how it's all configured, but a typical arrangement might be: The ENGINE Battery and Alternator are often separate from the COACH battery, although I have seen some gensets use the ENGINE battery for starting. Typically the solar charge controller PLUS the shore or genset powered Converter/Charger is ONLY connected to the HOUSE battery and NOT to the ENGINE battery, although sure it could be done otherwise. Also typical is some sort of an Emergency switch/solenoid so the HOUSE battery can be jumped to the ENGINE battery if its dead to start the engine. Soooooooo I cant know how your Solar Power Display is wired and if or not to the ENGINE (I dont expect) plus the HOUSE batteries and if or not your solar is also somehow connected to the engine battery (which I also dont expect but cant say from here) . Again I doubt those 11.4 volt readings (maybe display is bad) and your problem may simply be a bad connection or a fuse breaker or disconnect issue. Tooooooooooo many variables and unknowns to say much more sitting here Best wishes John T NOT any solar expert see what they have to say

Thats DOES NOT surprise me BB or any company doesn't manufacture all its own products & components here in the good old USA grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Its hard to find things NOT part made in China nowadays lol John T

Huge Thanks MP, hey that will give us plenty to digest lol.. Maybe it will answer my question of by whom and where the cells are made ??? and which if any BB uses or do they make their own ??? It will take some time and you have provided additional ammo John T

I certainly LIKE that, THANKS FOR POSTING. Would you happen know if the cells they use are also USA manufactured ?? WOULD MAKE IT EVEN BETTER yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy I think some of Will Prowses videos discuss different cell manufacturers, I will have to check that out and report back what I might find Nice sparky chatting with you, if ANYONE has data on who makes the cells please let us know, I fear it may only be China grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr John T

So, I have had a CHEAP OBD tester for years that works for what it is, I want to upgrade BUT CAN NOT FIGURE OUT AN ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION..... . Say I throw a MISFIRE code on my Ford V10, what testers of the thousands out there IF ANY will show on WHICH CYLINDER the misfire occurs????? ????? ????? Heres one of thousands on E Bay, would it show ON WHICH CYLINDER a misfire happened? If not any recommendations of one that would ?? Launch Diagnostic Scanner Tool OBD2 Car Code Reader Tester For Ford GM BMW BENZ | eBay John T

One of my methods to help decide WHAT BATTERY, WHAT BRAND, OR QUALITY of the many LiFePo4's out there is to peruse DIY Solar with Will Prowse on YouTube to see his test results and recommendations THEN JUDGE FOR YOURSELF. Im confident BattleBorn are good quality HOWEVER Im NOT convinced they are TWICE AS GOOD as some other brands with the same ratings which only cost HALF as much ???? Sure, being a curious electrical engineer Ive read tons of reviews from ACTUAL USERS many who say the brand they chose is performing perfect and it may be BB or it may be so and so Ive never heard of lol Shop around, do your homework, read reviews, check out DIY Solar with Will Prowse MAKE THE CALL THAT SUITS YOUR NEEDS AND BUDGET. Thats what I did and chose SOK which have performed excellent. I have NO data nor could prove if they are better, worse, or the same as some other more expensive brand............ Im normally NOT into recommending and brand for fear if they are crap out its MY fault, so Im ONLY reporting mine have performed great no problems ITS YOUR CALL (65) DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse - YouTube John T

Good morning Foto, yours is a good but very wide open question with many variables and unknowns so I can only offer some basics. 1) A fully charged lead acid (includes AGM as well as wet flooded ) battery at rest and stabilized should measure around 12.6 volts. 2) A working charging system (Converter/Charger or Solar) should raise battery voltage to at least 13 up to 14+ subject to battery condition and SOC as well as regulation scheme and settings and sunshine etc That 11.4 may be INACCURATE as under 12 volts is like 50% or less !!!!!!!!! That would be a TOTAL DEAD battery......... That display may be SHOT While this isn't much help, you may have a bad battery(s),,,,,,,,,A bad charging system (Converter/Charger or Solar),,,,,,,,,,Simply a bad connection,,,,,,,,,Or an open fuse/breaker,,,,,,,,,,,Or the display is shot................. Many shops will test a battery including a Load test for free I WOULD START WITH THAT.....Is the electrolyte level adequate,,,,??? If batteries are okay, then its back to Converter/Charger,,,,,,Display,,,,,,,,,Bad wiring, connection or fuse or breakers.. Check the batteries, take two aspirins and call me at the office John T

Ive built and used Solar on RV's a long time and there are several Energy Audit Methods out there which can provide a good starting point, however, in addition to whatever formula or methods you use, I have found ........You just cant predict 1) exactly how long and at what angle and intensity (based on shade and other) sun will shine on your panes and 2) your daily energy consumption (so sure have to use averages which is fine)............... PS I liked and advise the addition of a DC to DC charger for driving on cloudy days or nights........ THEREFORE after your energy audit ADD MORE PANELS THAN SUGGESTED if you have the available space and budget and ADD MORE BATTERIES if you have the space and budget. Any solar is good solar and more is better lol If possible when designing a system choose components big enough to allow room for expansion John T User and lover of Solar and Lithium yayyyyyyyyyyy

Mornin Mark, It's been a while since I purchased a board from Dinosaur, but FWIW like the fine gentlemen Dutch and Kirk above, mine was NOT potted. Im happy to say I haven't had any boards go bad lately and NEVER had a Dinosaur unit go bad yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy I contribute a part of recent success to checking cleaning and maintaining ALL WIRING CONNECTIONS AND GROUNDS.. Jim, thanks for the feedback, glad to hear its fixed. John T One Happy Camper and Dinosaur customer

D&J, Thanks for the interesting article. I have seen 12 VDC AC's used in smaller RV's, but some are less BTU than the 13,500 to 15,000 common rooftop units. Having owned RV's over fifty years, I've sure seen technology improve HOWEVER the last 5 to 10 years things have really moved fast such as Lithium Batteries, Solar, Inverters, and like your post BOTH 12 VDC COMPRESSOR POWERED AIR CONDITIONERS AND REFRIGERATORS. Of course, some of that was brought about by improved battery and solar technology allowing for more energy storage and recharging capacity. If I were to start all over I would opt for a 12 VDC fridge (for one no Inverter power/heat losses) but that's because I have adequate battery and solar capacity. Best wishes everyone John T