oldjohnt

jpc, you state "I'd like to have enough battery to run a TV and PlayStation 4 while driving along with a Haier fridge" 1) First of all, ...."while driving" your alternator, iffffffffffff sufficient rated and iffffffffffff configured such that its properly supplying good charge to your house batteries while driving should be adequate to operate an inverter (plus supply engine needs and maintain all batteries) to power a TV, play station and a Haier fridge SUBJECT TO fridge size. The Inverter needs to be big enough to START plus run the fridge as well as the TV and play station. Id recommend a Pure Sine Wave (PSW) versus a cheaper Modified Sine Wave (MSW) Inverter even though a MSW may "work" especially where sensitive electronic circuits may be used. If its a small apartment size fridge, a 600 watt Inverter might ????? (subject to fridge size) START and run the fridge HOWEVER Id go ahead an install AT LEAST a 1000 Watt PSW Inverter. THIS IS MERELY A GUESS NOT KNOWING THE FRIDGE POWER REQUIREMENTS but while installing an Inverter anyway, a 1000 watt will allow room for future growth even if a smaller unit "MIGHT" power the fridge and TV and "likely" run a small apartment size fridge subject to its power requirements. 2) I like your idea to install two full true deep cycle 6 volt batteries in series versus your current what Id bet are quasi deep cycle so called RV Marine batteries. If you were to install say two flooded lead acid Trojan T-105's you would have something like 225 Amp Hours of energy storage. 3) My Class C power requirements sound similar to yours and I "got by" with two 6 Volt Deep Cycles,,,, 200 Watts of Rooftop Solar, 20 Amp MPPT Solar Charge Controller, powering a small Haier Fridge plus a small TV and LED lights etc using a 1000 watt PSW Inverter HOWEVER if there wasn't enough sunlight I couldn't keep up as I don't like to discharge my house batteries much over 25%. In such cases Id fire up my Genset and let it run to power my then 60 amp smart charger. 4) While a kit or purchasing a turn key equipment and labor package is good for those who don't want to do their own install, its reasonable to purchase say a couple 100 watt solar panels or a SINGLE 200 or 235 etc. (easier to wire up) , plus the two batteries and wire up your solar charge controller and an Inverter to the batteries. SUMMARY while undertaking this project and to allow for future expansion in a Class C and power a small apartment size fridge, Id recommend at least 200 solar watts,,,,,,,,,, a 1000 Watt PSW Inverter,,,,,,,, at least two true deep cycle 6 volt golf cart batteries,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, a 20 or 30 Amp MPPT Solar Charge Controller,,,,,,,,,,,,,at least a 40 amp so called "Smart" 3/4 stage Battery Charger. While in my Class C I "got by" with two Trojans and 200 solar watts to run my Haier fridge and TV and LED lights etc., I'm doing much better now with 470 watts of solar, four Trojans (450 Amp Hours), 2000 Watt PSW Inverter, MPPT Solar Charge Controller and 80 Amp Smart 4 Stage Charger. There are many sharp gents here to assist you in purchasing or self installing whatever system you choose and these are merely my Class C choices and experiences (small Haier Fridge) so do your homework especially regarding the fridges power requirements and best wishes. John T

GREAT PICTURE AND POST Kirk, a picture is worth a thousand words. To add just a bit, If alls working correct and there are no stuck close contacts, the RV panel left OUTPUT of TS can ONLY be connected to one right side INPUT or the other (Genny or Utility). A problem would be if one contact toggles while the other one does NOT (cuz its stuck) . In some multiple contact devices and two pole circuit breakers etc., the two are mechanically tied together, such that its impossible for one to toggle but not the other IE if one is stuck closed the other cant go ahead and switch. Such a design (mechanically tied contacts) would be one solution to the hazard you spoke of. NOTE I'm NOT saying how your or other TS's may or may NOT be designed and built, or if its 30 or 50 amp, or if it has or does not have tied contacts, or how many contacts you have, I haven't seen all of them lol The unit in the picture does NOT appear to have tied contacts, its probably cheaper to build that way, RV makers have been known to utilize "cheaper" methods, and such is the type you may well have WHICH COULD END UP WITH ONE STUCK CONTACT WHILE THE OTHER SWITCHED, and that's baddddddddddddddd. FWIW I AGREE WITH KIRK, ITS IMPROBABLE BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE. As I noted before I learned to NEVER SAY NEVER John T

GREAT STORY LOU, thanks for posting. I envisioned a say two pole transfer switch where the two were MECHANICALLY (electrically isolated of course) tied together like done on a two pole circuit breaker so its NOT possible for one to be in one location and the other a different location, if one toggles over the other has to follow, they're joined IE THEY ARE MECHANICALLY JOINED AT THE HIP. I never designed one but if I did that would be my method. My example is an X pole DOUBLE THROW (Genset or Utility) NOT any sort of multiple switches or contactors whereby one might get welded in one location and the other still be allowed to toggle to another. Oh well John T

Yarome, GREAT INFORMATION, don't you run off now lol. As far as I'm concerned, a BBM ATS is the way to go in an RV, since the Generator wouldn't typically be synced with the Utility. Several years ago my buddy had an auto start generator which started as you indicated possible if the utility failed, and at the time I thought WOW that was really something lol I haven't looked at or tried to adjust the time delay in my ATS, but its has something like a 15 second delay BEFORE it toggles to Generator AFTER it starts. I figure that allows a brief warm up time and for the RPM and frequency to stabilize and settle in before it switches. As we beat to death above and even if the ATS were load switching rated, I still turn off appliances when switching to avoid arcing at the contacts. Its been fun and maybe we all learned a thing or two. I'm heading south soon, wish you would be in Florida instead of out west some winter so we could chit chat. Some year I may do the Quartzsite thing. John T

mrschwarz, "I don't know what type of transfer switch is in the inverter, but the specs say it has a 30 ms sync rate, so is it safe to assume that it's solid state?" I'm not sure, but when I hear the words "sync" and "30 ms" I'm thinking perhaps pass through?? and having the ability to sync the inverter to the utility frequency within X time with YES some sort of solid state instead of a mechanical system BUT I CANT BE SURE SITTING HERE ABSENT FURTHER INFO. A generic run of the mill just inverter may have a transfer switch, but as you all know you cant run that along side the utility to supplement it UNLESS you sync the 60 HZ phases, and I don't think mechanical contactors switch that fast, but solid state relays can. Also, how fast it syncs the frequency and how fast it switches from utility to inverter as the source of power may or may not be different things??? I just don't know without looking at your particular units specifications, maybe others here can???? HECK IF I KNOW SITTING HERE, SORRY But I try John T

mrschwarz GREAT QUESTIONS, I hope Kirk and others weigh in because this is ONLY my first impression, I cant guarantee my assumptions about how your system works is right or not, wait and see if others agree with my thoughts below ?????????????????? (A) You state " If, when using autostart, the generator starts because of a shore power loss, there is no problem with a surge. What happens when shore power is restored? Even if the generator is under load, the autostart will shut it down and the transfer switch will automatically revert to shore power (with the associated surge, I assume)." HERES MY TAKE if I have it right???? You're running on shore power,,,,,,,,,It goes down,,,,,,,,,,,,,You indicate you have AUTO START so the genny starts up,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Then your Transfer Switch toggles over so the genny (NOT lost shore power) feeds your panel,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, IS THAT CORRECT ????? THAT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE (unless you turned off your loads) when the TS toggles over to the auto started Genset, you're switching into a load which isn't the best for your TS contacts ESPECIALLY if they aren't load switching rated, but which I don't know THAT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE if shore power is restored and the TS toggles back over to shore power, you 1) Are first switching/opening the loaded genny off which creates arcing PLUS 2) You're switching back into shore power under load conditions which also creates an arc IF THATS HOW YOUR SYSTEM WORKS?????????? I DONT LIKE THE SOUND OF THAT because you switch (in or out) under load conditions THREE TIMES when the TS toggles to the auto started genny upon loss of shore power,,,,,,,,,,,,then the TS opens up the loaded genny,,,,,,,,,,,, then when the TS toggles back to shore power and has to close into that load A TRIPLE WHAMMY if loads are left on. BUT IF YOUR TS IS LOAD SWITCHING RATED it's less of a worry ( You state: "Also, for those of us with inverters, they also contain a transfer switch. It's not practical to disconnect all 120v devices like clocks, phone chargers, etc. Don't they experience the same thing? Also, for those of us with inverters, they also contain a transfer switch. It's not practical to disconnect all 120v devices like clocks, phone chargers, etc. Don't they experience the same thing? When boondocking, I put the autostart into auto mode. I have 120v devices that operate on the inverter. When the battery state of charge drops to the lower limit, the generator starts and the ATS kicks in. When that occurs, the charger/inverter senses 120v source and switches from the inverter to 120v. Based on what I have read, there must be some sort of surge when going from one 120v source to another." MY RESPONSE; If a TS has to switch certain smaller lesser grade non sync Inverter fed loads over to shore power, sure iffffffffffff its a mechanical contactor instead of a sold state relay, and its NOT a pass through inverter, there will be a significant time delay, so Id expect some degree of surge. HOWEVER remember the earlier discussion about how the Victron Pass Through Inverter/Charge with sync capability switched in 20 milliseconds and loads hardly know it happened. DISCLAIMER hey I may well be assuming the worst possible scenarios and over reacting and over worrying, that's just how I'm wired as an Engineer and an Attorney lol. A TS can be designed to withstand loaded switching and arcing etc and maybe there's no problem whatsoever HOWEVER if the TS is NOT designed or intended to switch under load, the arcing and heat and carbon and pitting that can result is harmful to the contacts. So if you have a lower end TS its just still best to NOT switch under a load as much as possible. A smaller inverted isn't used for huge current loads so that can be less of a problem. Hey if your system works fine and it may well be quality that can handle loaded switching IF IT AINT BROKE DONT FIX IT. If its a quality high end rig factory installed that way, perhaps the TS and Inverter and its TS can switch under a load without a problem and continue to work as good as you have described, if so DONT MESS WITH IT. Much of the above thread has to do with theory and how its still best to NOT switch under loads, (I think all agree that's still preferred) but we don't have your equipment or specs to go on SO AGAIN NO WARRANTY. Sounds like your fine so don't lose any sleep over all this theoretical stuff lol although I still believe its correct and best where possible especially if you don't have load rated switching equipment Best I have to offer absent all the specs and details about your equipment. See if others agree or not, it wont be the first or last time I was wrong John T

"I'm sure that John will be along with his engineer version of all of this, but this is the simple version. :P" THANKS Kirk, we make a darn good Engineer Technician team in my opinion. Hey, I had a great relationship with my techs for forty years and enjoyed and appreciated them as they did me, we worked well together and learned from each other. I never belittle a mans (including my own) chosen occupation and life's work and profession and am proud of my education and experience as you are also. The world of technology needs BOTH good engineers as well as good technicians to best function in my opinion, I enjoy working with you !!!! Looks like we agree in our opinions above, might it be said "Great minds think alike" orrrrrrrrrr "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut now n then" LOL As you predicted and FWIW, here goes my "engineer version" PETE & PAT, on 04 Oct 2016 - 8:17 PM, said: Pete & Pat, to me the fact you can start a Genset inside versus having to go outside isn't the deciding issue. Normally I wouldn't start my genset unless there was no shore power. In my RV if I start the genset (in or out) the TS ONLY switches to it AFTER A TIME DELAY (but I cant say you or others have that delay feature, mine does and if I was the engineer that's how I would have designed it) and, of course, when that happens (on my TS at least) the Utility is disconnected from the RV panel even if plugged up outside. Remember, the RV panel can ONLY be connected to one or the other input sources (Gen or Utility) if the TS is okay........... Soooooooooo if the utility goes down its not absolutely 100% necessary (BUT subject to how your TS works!!!!!!) you go out in the rain to unplug (if all is working like mine and okay) and no harm in starting the genset inside or out AGAIN IF YOUR TS IS CORRECT AND WORKING EVEN IF THATS NOTTTTTTTTTTTTT I REPEAT NOT MY RECOMMENDATION. NO, I DONT PREFER TO HAVE THE CORD PLUGGED IN IF I FIRE UP MY GENERATOR AND DONT DO THAT, THE ABOVE IS ONLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY THEORY AND DEPENDS ON THE TS, BUT IF TS WORKING RIGHT EVEN IF THE CORD IS PLUGGED INTO A HOT UTILITY, ITS NOT CONNECTED TO YOUR PANEL ONCE THE GNESET STARTS AND IS WORKING AND THE TS TOGGLES AND TIME DELAY HAS PASSED.... That's the whole design and purpose of the TS anyway (Gen or Utility). In my older RV's with no TS whatsoever, if you wanted genset power you plugged the RV power cord into the Gensets outlet receptacle located right inside the storage box where the cord was kept. That was an easy simple foolproof method with no TS to have to worry about. If I was on the road my power cord plugged into the Genset and if I was at an RV park I plugged to the pedestal instead AH THE GOOD OLD DAYS LOL THE FACT REMAINS when and to the extent possible it best for your TS if it DOES NOT switch under a load. If I were inside connected to Utility and it fails, I would (go unplug unless it was raining cats n dogs) shut off appliances (especially an AC),,,,,,,,,,,,Fire up the Genset using the inside switch,,,,,,,,,,After the time delay and TS toggles to Generator,,,,,,,,,,,,,Turn appliances back on. Sure a person may forget or its not convenient to turn appliances off and back on, but its still best to NOT have the TS switch under load. I THINK ALL OF US HERE AGREE ON THAT Quote THATS a good practice, your TS will thank you and last longer. Its the arcing and resultant heat, carbon and pitting that harms contactors if switched under a current load. NOTE I cant guarantees how your or others TS works, I'm ONLY speaking how mine does (Genset connection ONLY once working and time delay passes), so don't anyone have a calf if theirs works differently in which case IGNORE ALL ABOVE!!!!!! BEST WISHES, now you have BOTH a good experienced Technicians opinion PLUS a very rusty long retired Engineers opinion, take either at your own risk lol but as far as mine is concerned NO WARRANTY I'm too long retired. Do what the more experienced experts say NOT me, but I try my level best to help yall. John T

Kirk, you stated "That means that it would not be possible to operate on shore power with the generator running" YOU GOT IT RIGHT, the RV panel is connected to the TS OUTPUT and it (unless catastrophic failure) can ONLY become connected to ONE of the INPUTS (Generator instead of Utility in your example once up and running). The transfer switch contacts cant be in two places at once!!! Its one or the other (Generator OR Utility) under normal non failure circumstances, and if it auto switches to Generator once its up and running as in your example, the Utility isn't in the picture. YOU ARE ALSO CORRECT if the TS is set to or designed to auto switch to Generator once powered up, it will (or should) indeed do that and NOT (unless catastrophic failure) be able to furnish the RV panel from both sources. Obviously, the typical run of the mill generic TS isn't monitoring, dealing with, nor trying to synchronize Generator and Utility frequency like the expensive pass through Victron Inverter/Charger discussed in another recent thread which has Sync capability. Besides, mechanical contactors don't switch that fast like the 20 millisecond Victron switch function and the Solid State relays I spoke of in a recent thread. I "suspect" (but don't have times in front of me so no warranty) as slow as mechanical contactors might react, any start up of an appliance is going to be like starting all over following a TS toggle, but an AC or Fridge compressor DOES NOT like a fast restart under high pressure and such "could" (subject to time delay) be problematic !!!!! ALSO if one contactor got stuck/welded in one position and assuming the two contacts are mechanically tied together (would sure be if I designed it), its highly unlikely one can stick yet the other switch. REGARDLESS it looks like we all agree its BEST if a TS does NOT switch under load. Sure, that means you would have to physically turn appliances on and off which you may or not be there to do in the AUTO (if so equipped ???????) mode if say the Utility went down and the Generator auto started (IFFFFFFF AN RV HAD SUCH A FEATURE ??? IM NOT SAYING YES OR NO, never say never). Generator auto start to charge weak batteries is another possible "auto start" scenario if such exists and the RV is so equipped. I don't have any such auto generator start if the utility goes down (or batteries low) feature whatsoever, so I can turn off appliances before firing up the Generator, then once it stabilizes and the TS toggles over to Generator, I can turn my appliances back on to avoid switching under load NOW THATS A GOOD PLAN FROM AN ENGINEERING STANDPOINT even if not fancy and automatic. Love this sparky chat, thanks for your inputs which I enjoy and appreciate,I think we have pretty much beat this to death lol at the risk of boring non sparkies for which I'm sorry. Best wishes and God Bless John T

In response to the discussion about sticking contacts (sure it can happen, typically caused by switching while under load and its arcing and heat) and any possibility of the two different Inputs (Genset & Utility) becoming crossed, for that to happen in a two Pole (L1 & L2) 50 amp RV contactor, one contactor would have to stick in one position, while the other contactor still switches. Sure, anything is possible in a catastrophic failure and over 40 years as an electrical engineer has taught me NEVER say NEVER, it's unlikely iffffffffffffff??? the two contactors are mechanically tied together one CAN NOT switch if the other doesn't IE if one (of two contacts) is stuck in one position, the other cant switch either. If a TS were stuck say in the Generator position its "unlikely" the Generator and Utility become crossed BUT I WOULD NEVER SAY ITS 100% "IMPOSSIBLE". MORAL OF THE STORY the RV Panel which is wired to the TS's OUTPUT, is going to be getting its power from EITHER one of two INPUT sources a) The Genset OR The Utility, and it would be hard (NOT impossible described above) for one to cross with the other. Sooooooooooo while having the genset run while connected to the Utility "in theory" would have no harmful effect because the RV panel (wired to TS Output) can ONLY get its power from one or the other (Absent a catastrophic failure and absent the unlikely occurrence one contactor is stuck yet the other can switch) its still something I don't do since if I'm connected to the Utility I don't need the Genny. THE POSSIBILITY OF TS DAMAGE CAUSED BY SWITCHING UNDER LOAD IS FAR GREATER THEN THE POSSIBILITY OF DAMAGE CAUSED BY THE GENERATOR RUNNING WHILE CONNECTED TO THE UTILITY (unless the TS fails, its NOT connected to anything) YET ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE GIVEN A CATASTROPHIC FAILURE IN THE TS SUCH AS DESCRIBED ABOVE Note, I'm talking about a two pole 50 amp RV above where both L1 & L2 are being switched from Generator over to Utility. Even in a 30 amp L and N switching applies. That's my story and Ima stickin to it lol John T Long and rusty retired electrical engineer, never designed a TS, so NO Warranty, do as yall please

mrschwarz, "They are always (at least the ones I have looked at), double throw relays" Obviously I haven't looked at them all lol BUT IN THEORY double THROW is indeed their design. One Input POLE(s) connects to Utility, other Input POLE(s) connects to Generator, the Output THROW connects to the RV panel, AND YOU'RE RIGHT, it cant normally accidentally (absent some sort of catastrophic failure) connect the POLES together, if one Input POLE (say Utility) is connected to the RV panel the other Input POLE (say generator) cant be, nor are the POLES connected to each other. I never start my Generator when connected to the Utility, I already have RV power. OF COURSE THINGS CAN HAPPEN AND ARCING CAN OCCUR AND CONTACTS CAN WELD SHUT SO I NEVER SAY NEVER, the above is the design and theory of operation ONLY IE don't bet your life things couldn't somehow get accidentally connected. As you discussed, current carrying capacity and load switching capacity are two different things. Switching (closing or opening) under load is much more of a stress on the contacts then switching unloaded. John T

Sure anything "could" happen, but I don't envision it would be easily "fried" by simply trying to see if its working. Of course, I never fire up my genset if hooked to the utility, no need to use it then. Also, I don't turn off my genset when a load is operating, I shut off any loads FIRST and then turn the genset off. Not sure if yours works the same, but when my genset starts there's a built in time delay BEFORE the transfer switch toggles and my genset can power up the RV. In addition to other concerns, that allows the genset to stabilize at voltage and frequency plus allows a warm up time BEFORE the transfer switch toggles the genset in. With no connection to the utility (turn off appliances) fire up your genset and see if and when the transfer switch operates and then if things work?? With the genset off of course, plug to the utility and see if all is functioning??? I don't see that will fry anything, but as always, NO WARRANTY proceed at your own risk lol But FWIW that's how I would try it. John T

geek49, thanks for the updates: I don't see 123 volts or even 116 under load (if that what it was at the unit itself ????) as low enough to cause current to be 17 amps, so I don't think low voltage (at least as far as at the source) is the problem. I still don't relish the idea of even a perfectly good AC which may draw say 12+ amps being served by a 15 amp branch circuit, since I designed so that no more then 80% of maximum continuous load was allowed, meaning 12 amps max on a 15 amp branch circuit. Subject to actual load and distance and wire size, you could have a voltage drop between where the RV power cord connects and the rooftop AC unit itself AND IF THATS ENOUGH THERE COULD STILL BE LOW VOLTAGE PRESENT AT THE AC UNIT???????????? Do you have any idea of what the voltage under load is right at the AC input itself ????????????? If its close to 115 volts you mentioned I wouldn't be too concerned, but if by the time it goes through the RV cord and then distribution panel then maybe 14 gauge wire to the actual AC unit THERE COULD STILL BE A LOW VOLTAGE PROBLEM Its the kind of thing if I were testing it at home Id measure the voltage and current right at the unit as is, and then maybe rig a good heavy short as possible 12 gauge cord from the utility to the AC itself and see what the voltage and current is then??? If its still say 14 to 17 amps and the coils are clean and there's no capacitor or a bad electrical connection problem THEN IM THINKING PERHAPS THE COMPRESSOR IS GOING BAD. Again, carboned loose resistive electrical connections (panel or wiring or AC unit or too small wire) can cause a voltage drop such that at the AC unit itself the voltage is low WHICH IS WHY YOU NEED TO KNOW THE VOLTAGE AND CURRENT RIGHT AT THE UNIT. If the voltage under load is sufficient there, then I'm back to a compressor problem if all else is okay NOTE even if its a perfect new 15 amp thermal magnetic circuit breaker, around 13 to especially the 17 amps you mentioned over a period of time is going to cause the thermal element of the breaker to trip, but real quick when over 15 amps. John T NOT an AC Expert, but still know low voltage or wiring problems or excess line voltage drop (by small wire) or too small of a branch supply circuit can cause excess compressor current flow, as can a bad compressor also............

First off I agree with neighbor Ray to clean the coils, and of course that means BOTH the easy to get to Condensor PLUS Evaporator (which some people don't) as well as any interior foam type strip air filters. I use my air compressor plus a soft brush so I don't bend any of the delicate fins. They make a powerful spray coil cleaner I've seen RV AC techs use, but the solution is fairly strong so make sure no spray ends up other then on the coils Next, even if the unit normally draws say 12.5 amps, TO ME THATS TOO MUCH CURRENT FOR A 15 AMP BRANCH CIRCUIT BREAKER (I wouldn't use over 12 amps) and assuming its a Thermal Magnetic Breaker, a long continuous 12 to 13 amp draw could eventually trip the thermal, and of course your reported 17.5 amps will trip it quickly. Id fell better if a 12 to 14 amp unit were on a 20 amp branch circuit then a 15 amp.............. While capacitors can go bad, I suspect you unit just has a START Capacitor instead of any START and RUN, so such is NOT my "first" suspect (still anything is possible) . Is the fan motor clean and free, that's easy to see and get to, its not running overly hot is it????? If you clean both coils and the interior air filter and there's no bad capacitor (which I doubt is the problem) and all electrical connections (breaker and panel and at unit) are good yet she still draws 17.5 amps, I think Id have an RV AC Tech take a look as there may be a compressor or Freon problem. Last time I talked to one and he discussed the cost to perform a line tap to check Freon and/or or add any versus the cost of a new unit, I decided to try and check it wasn't worth it since it may fail again and then all that money would be wasted. John T NOT an AC expert or tech by any means, so see what the experts have to say or add to this.................

YES I also think its a "good idea" and agree with Kirk, Id buy a unit at Lowes or Home Depot or Ace Hardware versus an RV supplier as its cheaper PLUS you can pick up filter tubes about anywhere in the US. As far as dinking water ONLY, hopefully installed under the kitchen sink if space is available? Id go with the dual filter with BOTH sediment plus charcoal. However if you use a filter on the incoming city water supply, Id just use a single sediment filter as it will drop less pressure, be easier to replace the single element, plus for showers and washing dishes its less critical YET YOUR DRINKING WATER IS STILL DOUBLE PROTECTED. That being said and despite the above dual filtration, for drinking water and coffee we still keep 2 or 3 gallon jugs (plus the typical small plastic bottles) you can by cheap at Wally World etc and refill them for 15 to 25 cents. We do that because despite any dual filtration as above, you may be where the water supply is well water or no telling what and I trust the jug water quality better then maybe a well like at some Natl Forest. But if you're gonna carry jugs for drinking water anyway, why do all the above lol maybe just an in line sediment filter when connected to the utility??? Your choice John T

Yates, you ask "Would 11.8 be low enough to cause issues?" YES that could cause some "issues" (but even at 11.8 or lower LED's or other indicators should at least do something) 11.8 volts sounds awfully LOW for your "battery voltage" and Dinosaur Electronics (when they helped me troubleshoot my Dometic) indicated low voltage could cause the control board to NOT open the gas valve and fire the ignitor HOWEVER that doesn't explain a condition where nothing lights up whatsoever???????? How accurate is your voltmeter??? A good full charged 12 volt battery at rest and stabilized should read around 12.6 volts, 12 is like 50% discharged, and 11.8 is low for a charged battery. SEE WHAT THE VOLTAGE DOES WITH THE BATTERY CHARGER OPERATING Probably something simple were all overlooking but not being there its just hard to say. Kirk sent you the manual so go with its recommendations versus over the net guesses lol. I do remember Dinosaur talking about circuit boards and the eyebrow panel on mine could be the problem. The main thing I learned about how low voltage could affect circuit control board functions on my Dometic fridge was when the tech asked if I had a good voltmeter and I responded so far I ONLY used a test lamp whereupon he respond NOOOOOOOOOOOOO WAY a few tenths of low voltage can disenable the control board especially when it comes to ignitor and gas valve operation for safety purposes SO LOW VOLTAGE CAN CAUSE ISSUES according to that tech at least, but I cant guarantee such on all makes and models of course or that technicians knowledge. Just for the fun of it, Id still measure voltages and observe what happens if plugged into shore power and the battery charger raises battery voltage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let us know what you find, it may help others in the future John T

I'm in agreement with the good gents who question whether or not a good 12 VDC SOURCE is present at the very INPUT to the fridge there on its rear where the 12 VDC supply makes its initial entrance????????? Its good you checked the 12 VDC distribution panel (and any fuse to fridge) where all the fuses are that serve the entire coach,. If 12 VDC is present there and through any fuse (or a branch circuit) to the fridge, it ought to be present at the very input to the fridge itself unless there's a bad ground or a wiring or terminal problem/open. NOTE I cant know sitting here if your fridge is powered direct from your battery bank (and it should also be fuse protected even if not via the panel) ORRRRRRRRR via the 12 VDC distribution panel, but much of that below still holds true YOU GOTTA HAVE GOOD NON RESISTIVE 12 VOLTS TO THE FRIDGE ITSELF. Are all the other 12 VDV circuits operative such as vent fans and water pumps and lights etc???? When you checked those fridge circuit board fuses, where you maintain they are okay, is 12 VDC present there??? I once had an inoperative fridge (ignitor board wouldnt fire nor open the gas valve) and had Dinosaur Electronics on the phone helping me troubleshoot AND WAS WARNED LOW VOLTAGE, even though approx. 12 VDC measured on a crude meter existed, could disable the electronic circuitry. Moral of the story, what matters is what voltage exists once a load is actually applied, as a bad/loose/resistive yet not totally open connection in the fridges 12 VDC supply circuit would still indicate the presence of 12 volts, UNTIL a load were applied and current flowed (V = I x R) . IE even if fuses are okay and 12 unloaded volts appears initially, ITS STILL POSSIBLE A LOOSE OR BAD CONNECTION EXISTS in the supply circuit. However, the electronic control circuitry requires low current (while gas solenoid valve does) as compared to what any 12 VDC (if the fridge even has that feature which many dont???) heater would, which makes me suspect more along the lines THERES NO 12 VOLTS PERIOD versus a bad/resistive connection as the problem. If the loaded supply (no loose connections) and all fuses are good but still no operation, then I'm out to lunch as the electronic circuitry or cards or boards etc. may be at fault. AS ALWAYS A BAD GROUND CAN ALSO CAUSE ALL SORTS OF PROBLEMS grrrrrrrrrrrr DOES IT MATTER IF THE COACH IS PLUGGED INTO SHORE POWER (I'm thinking about the low voltage condition I mentioned) HAVE YOU JIGGLED OR REMOVED OR MESSED WITH OR INSURED A GOOD FIT AT THE EYEBROW PANEL Best wishes John T Live from San Diego