oldjohnt

While it's NOT exact or accurate whatsoever, if you divide the CCA by 7.25 you can get AN APPROXIMATION of Amp Hours. 600/7.25 = 83 Amp Hours. Again that CCA to AH crude approximation IS NOT IDEAL OR ACCURATE.........In the days when I used Full True Deep Cycle batteries I did NOT consider RV Marine to be as suitable for deep cycle RV use and considered them designed to have enough CCA to start a big marine engine (typical starting battery application) and then be used to power up a trolling motor (typical deep cycle application). Batteries designed to START (high current for short duration) are not the same as those designed for long term lower amperage deep discharge, the plates among other things are different. But hey no problem I used RV Marine batteries in RV's way back when before I converted to full true deep cycle golf cart batteries before converting to AGM, before converting to Lithium, its a natural progression for frequent dry campers. FYI two Trojan 6 Volt Golf Cart batteries in series would be rated around 225 AH at 12 volts but that's more weight and size. My old 12 Volt AGM's are 200 AH but they weight 129 lbs and are huge frame size 4D. My 12.8 Volt 206 Amp Hour Lithiums charge must faster, are much smaller and lighter and don't experience near as much voltage sag under load or at reduced SOC,,, BUT YES THEY WERE EXPENSIVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Best wishes John T

UNTIL CHAD ARRIVES to answer, clarify and correct if necessary, I found this article provides a good explanation of Series and Parallel solar panel configurations, how similar to batteries, current is additive in parallel while voltage is additive in series. I connected my four in Series/Parallel so I didn't exceed the max PV input voltage of my MPPT Solar Charge Controller. https://www.alternative-energy-tutorials.com/solar-power/connecting-solar-panels-together.html John T

Chad, EXCELLENT summation of Solar Charge Controller operation. I tell people they simply use the RAW POWER from the Panels (which varies greatly based on sunshine and other variables) and electronically converts that raw power into Smart Staged Regulated charging compatible with the chosen battery chemistry and its proper charging algorithm. They and backed up with a batteries BMS (if so equipped) charge the batteries, provide for their protection and prevent overcharging. Now all the sophisticated electronics is above my pay scale just suffice it to say the above ONLY represents the basic theory. In a nutshell without the regulation and control the ever changing voltage and current supplied unfiltered and straight from the panels would NOT do a good job of correctly charging and protecting the batteries. Some brands of Solar Charge Controllers have but two basic specifications/labeling, the maximum PV input voltage (based on panels and how multiples are configured) and the max current, easy peasey. My VERY FIRST controller was a cheap PWM but since I chose MPPT and am never going back. PS the only caveat I might add to one of your items above is DO NOT use any so called "4th Stage" or so called "Equalize" type of feature a few smart charges may be equipped with on AGM batteries, that so called 4th Stage is intended for flooded lead acid. As you indicate a regular Smart 3 Stage (Bulk, Absorption, Float) is fine for EITHER FLA or AGM. Related to MONITORING Id add use of a "Shunt Based" battery monitor is more accurate than some of the cheap built in units that only monitor battery voltage ... Thanks Chad, great information John T NOT any Solar expert listen to Chad or Randy over me

Yo hemstead, if I understand you correctly, it appears to me if you add more panels IN PARALELL,,,,,,,And since current adds when using panels IN PARALLEL,,,,, The current will be greater from the PARALLEL combination of multiple panels !!!!!!!! IM CONFIDENT THATS CORRECT. Given that as you increase current (due to multiple panels in parallel) you increase line voltage drop and I Squared R heat energy losses UNLESS you increase cable size.... IE it IS NECESSARY to increase wire size when adding multiple panels (subject to what size was originally used) in parallel or else there's more line voltage drop. NOTE that's true regardless of each panels output being any finite fixed amount regardless of load which I doubt anyway. Example if one panel was pumping out say 5 amps and you added another identical panel in parallel, I hope all agree you now deliver 10 amps down to the controller. If the SAME wire was used you obviously increase the line voltage drop as it's a function of wire size, current, and distance.. WELL DUH While NOT a Solar expert, just an old retired EE, I firmly believe the above is accurate...But hey I've been wrong before grrrrrrrrrr John T

I likewise could learn more about them. In a nutshell as I'm sure you already know, it's my understanding (No warranty I'm NOT an expert) the solar controller regulates and provides so called "Smart" charging of the battery bank utilizing the energy provided by the solar panels. If the battery SOC is low the controller uses all energy (depends on sun intensity and angle) the panels can provide (high load on panels) but once fully charged they go to a small maintenance trickle charge level (low load on panels). I've monitored my MPPT controller charging my Lithium battery bank (has Bluetooth monitoring) and after a nights use when my batteries are discharged (needs max power panels can provide) once the sun shines bright the controller starts pumping max available charging current into my batteries, but after some time and my monitor nears 100% SOC (less panel power is needed) the controller slows way down and despite full bright sunshine only pumps a few amps into the batteries. The load on the panels varies (NOT a constant) depending on the SOC of my batteries and their V x I Power depends on the sun. I see BOTH my battery BMS PLUS the Solar Charge Controller having a part in providing the proper charging. I see NONE of this disputing Ohms Law, its always there and I see the solar panels load varying based on the battery SOC and its power based on the sun AND THOSE TWO ARE EVER CHANGING. The panel has very limited power and again NOT any ideal infinite energy or current source and as its Power (based on sun) = V x I iffffffffff the power were a constant ???? if the output current changed so must the Voltage IM STICKIN TO THAT !!!!!!!!!!!! Thats my story n Ima stickin to it. If incorrect it wont be my first time and Id appreciate an expert educating me of where I went wrong grrrrrrrrrrr lol Fun sparky chatting with you Kirk and I apologize for boring the others Again, Happy Easter everyone John T

Kirk (based on my training and 50 years experience as an electrical engineer) you are correct. A Solar Panel has ONLY limited capacity, it's NOT any Ideal or infinite energy source and Power (such as for example a 100 Watt Panel) still = Volts x Amps..It may be capable of supplying X number of amps into a given resistance load, but if the loads resistance changes in order to deliver the same current Voltage has to change WELL DUH....Power = V x I and I = V/R.... The key, controlling and accurate portion of your post above is when you state "constant current within specified parameters" If the resistance drops yet current is to remain constant VOLTAGE WOULD HAVE TO CHANGE... if a Panel out there can deliver X constant continuous amps regardless of the attached load WHERE CAN I BY ONE LOL As everyone knows the output of a Panel is not constant, it changes with different sunlight intensity, angle, temperature and efficiency. It cant provide constant current regardless of the loads resistance and regardless of the sunshine IT CAN HOWEVER PROVIDE CONSTANT CURRENT AS KIRK STATES WITHIN "SPECIFIED PARAMETERS" Again I do not have the voltage and current curves of any certain panel and they surely exist Im NOT commenting on those curves ONLY THAT I BELIEVE KIRK IS CORRECT REGARDING OHMS LAW. PS the load placed on solar charging system is dependent upon the State of Charge of the batteries. If they are depleted more power will be drawn from the solar charging system but once they are at 100% SOC they require less charging amps suppled by the solar system. SO THE LOAD CHANGES and isn't constant. Hope this helps everyone yall have a Happy Easter now take care and God Bless John T Long retired Electrical Engineer but believe Ohms law is still true

Kirk, DITTO yeppers Ohm Law is still valid last I heard !!! While it's been years since I was in EE school one never forgets the basics and Ohms Law (talk about EE101 or even High School science) still rings true as far as I know. I recall a theoretical IDEAL CURRENT SOURCE which pumped out a constant current regardless of the load and the other theoretical IDEAL VOLTAGE SOURCE which similarly maintained constant voltage regardless of the load NEITHER EXISTS WELL DUH and a Solar Panel is NOT an Ideal source. A battery or a solar panel is NOT an IDEAL SOURCE and doesn't produce constant current or constant voltage ABSOLUTELY REGARDLESS OF THE LOAD. The power (V x I) a solar panel can deliver is not infinite and varies of course based on the intensity and angle of the sun plus its efficiency and temperature. Its unloaded open circuit voltage will decrease as more and more current is drawn from it. If you short it out the voltage of course drops drastically... As Power = Volts x Amps ifffffffffff it were to remain constant yet V or I changed, so must the other right ??? That all being said in sunlight the panels are delivering current down to the solar charge controller and the bigger the conductors (IE less resistance) the less line voltage drop and less wasted I Squared R heat energy losses. I DONT SEE ANYONE HERE DOUBTING THAT I HOPE ??? As you add more panels and increase the current pumped down to the charge controller you likely need bigger less resistance conductors to reduce line voltage drop and heat losses. Soooooooooo that's all I have to say about "Ohms Law" (I know it and agree with Kirk) I'm NOT commenting on the voltage and current curves of a solar panel versus sunlight intensity and angle and load etc., but I bet the manufacturers have that information available ... Fun discussion yall, Thanks Kirk we agree yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy John T Longgggggggg retired n rusty Electrical Engineer but believe Ohms Law remains valid...and a Solar Panel IS NOT AN IDEAL SOURCE

How true Kirk, the industry sees the handwriting on the wall. HOWEVER as I bet you have noticed "some" of the so called "Solar Ready" is hype/advertising/sales gimmick and may consist of nothing more then an external two pin receptacle wired (at what amp rating ???) to your house batteries into which you can plug a suitcase solar panel or maybe a junction box and wiring up to the roof which may or may not be adequate grrrrrrrrrrrr. I have noticed several mostly Class B and Vans that do indeed come factory equipped with solar panels and Lithium batteries but at a premium price of course. DITTO if we were young and starting over us sparky types would have an easier life and a blast with all this modern RV technology wooooooooo hoooooooooo Happy Easter my sparky friend, always a pleasure John T An old dog trying my best to learn new tricks lol

Zulu, as I reported above I've watched his plus several other solar component testers/reviewers a long time which I enjoy and have learned a thing or two. As he and others point out many different brands use THE SAME CELLS and the specs design and quality of the BMS and general construction technique plus customer service is also important when making your selection. With lots of players and several quality brands out there one needs to research his energy requirements, budget and make an informed decision after comparing specs and life cycles versus cost of different brands. I'm sure (and as Will Prowse has discovered) some are better then others but given the same specs, cells, life cycles and BMS etc., are any worth twice as much as another quality similar equipped brand ???? Maybe yes maybe no, who can prove it one way or another given they haven't been in use that long I SURE CANT LOL but sure everyone is entitled to THEIR opinion. YES the initial up front cost is higher but if you figure in the years of life and service plus faster charging, less voltage sag and reduced weight, the investment makes more sense. It did for me at least and I'm (one who dry camps often) never going back. It was a 50 year journey from regular automotive style batteries to RV Marine to 6 Volt Deep Cycles to AGM to Lithium......... As always to each THEIR own choice based on THEIR needs and THEIR budget Happy Easter everyone John T

Ashton I don't know the answer, you would have to ask them (maybe some other gent here knows ?) All I do know is I got excellent help and support when I called about SOK and my Li Charger was set at their recommended level. I've seen some chargers with easy dip switch adjustments for various charge levels but I have no idea about your equipment or settings. I recommend you ask SOK FIRST and then follow up talking to the charger tech people...With that kind of investment may as well get it right !!!! While its NOT my preference I have seen people use their older so called Smart chargers designed for Lead Acid for charging Li and sure that still provides some degree of charge, but I prefer to use the manufacturers recommendations myself, but that's JUST ME, do as you please or what the maker or experts here say. Happy Easter John T

EXACTLY any source used to heat the batteries or compartment WILL USE ENERGY..Theres no free lunch lol... The question then becomes, what method of keeping them heated (only batteries themselves or their enclosure) is the most energy efficient ??? Like I said, some batteries have internal heaters so they DO NOT "need to be in a heated area" My batteries (like most quality brands) have a BMS with low temp protection HOWEVER some of the cheaper units out there DO NOT grrrrrrrrrr Take care Glenn, Happy Easter John T

Many now come with built in heaters so that may no longer be quite as necessary !!! Regardless, being a belt and suspenders kinda guy I prefer a BMS with low temp protection PLUS protect using a charger with its own safety low tempo cut off .........Too much money invested to risk fire or damage... Happy Easter John T

Nice detailed report Itinerant1. I've only been running my system (AGM upgraded to Li) a couple years now mostly dry camping and haven't had any problems so far. I attended some Li seminars put on by Briten plus researched Lion quite extensively and based on a lot of other research found there to be several good players out there (BB, Lion, SOK, Briton, etc. etc.) and as I mentioned many with the SAME cells. While prices vary I doubt anyone could prove (not enough time has passed) any one battery with the same specs and life cycles that costs TWICE as much as another same spec brand is TWICE as good. With so many brands, specs, data, advertising, hyperbole and opinions out there, to each their own based on their energy requirements and budget is what seems to drive the market. Happy Easter everyone John T

Ashton here's a copy of what I just posted on the other thread: BOTTOM LINE (for my frequent dry camping) given their MUCH lighter weight,,,,,,LESS if any voltage sag under load and/or as SOC decreases,,,,,,,,,,,MUCH faster charging,,,,,,, I LOVE MINE AND WOULD NEVER GO BACK but of course to each their own based on THEIR needs and THEIR budget. FWIW I chose SOK (like 1/2 cost of BB) and they have performed perfect to date... AFTER I invested in Li I keep reading how all the future technologies such as solid state batteries are even better than Li but that's for the next generation. John T Retired n rusty electrical engineer and 50 year RV owner

Good morning Kirk, fun topic you started. My RV panels are flat rooftop mounted, which seems may be more susceptible to hail damage versus if at an angle, and I've been in some minor hail with no perceived damage. However, I worry as much or more about if I'm under a tree and walnuts or limbs or whatever falls on them ?? but so far so good. There are a ton of different brands of Li batteries and although one brand (yall know which I mean, great quality it appears) spends and does the most advertising and marketing, it's my opinion some other brands which sell for less (have far less advertising and marketing costs) may be as good or who knows even better ???? I don't know, I cant prove it one way or another and as noted above it may take 10 or 20 years before anyone could... If you research including such sources as DIY Solar by Will Prowse, it appears many different battery manufacturers USE THE SAME CHINA MADE CELLS. Some of the test results indicates its the type brand features and quality of the BMS and general build quality is as important as what the labeled brand may be. As far as lifespan, heck at my age if they last another 5 to 10 years max is all I need. Given such a huge investment Im a believer in maintenance and good care, and Ive never drawn mine down anywhere near that 80% (so far 50% has been the most) which would be my own personal max discharge regardless. I provided a degree of cushion battery mounting to reduce road shock and cable flex and vibration protection along with good quality clean tight connections plus t stat controlled ventilation in the battery and inverter compartment. BOTTOM LINE (for my frequent dry camping) given their MUCH lighter weight,,,,,,LESS if any voltage sag under load and/or as SOC decreases,,,,,,,,,,,MUCH faster charging,,,,,,, I LOVE MINE AND WOULD NEVER GO BACK but of course to each their own based on THEIR needs and THEIR budget. FWIW I chose SOK (like 1/2 cost of BB) and they have performed perfect to date... AFTER I invested in Li I keep reading how all the future technologies such as solid state batteries are even better than Li but that's for the next generation. PS FWIW I went with Polycrystalline Panels which are fine but if I started over Id go with Monocrystalline............ Best wishes everyone, HAPPY EASTER He has risen !!!!!!!!!! John T Long retired n rusty electrical engineer and 50 year RV owner

Congratulation pj, good job....Hey as long as you ARE NOT (and you already know that) mixing Lead Acid and Li chemistry no problem. Sure, the "energy" from the Li (or your Lead Acid) could be used to power up an Inverter or used (given the correct electronics) to properly smart charge your Lead Acid. In my rig the primary charging source for my Li bank are of course my Solar Panels, but if no sunlight then shore power or my Genset runs my Smart Li Charger. If needed when driving at night I also have a DC to DC charger so the engines alternator can charge my Li. I'm sure you already have all wiring as well as electrical devices and batteries properly overload protected Lifes good, you gotta love electricity and having more then one option to keep charged yayyyyyyyyyy So when your Lead Acid expires do I see more Li in your future?? I see Solid State batteries in the not too distant future but my RV days will likely be over by then grrrrrrrrrrr John T

AMEN Lenp DITTO I've had that happen myself grrrrrrrrrrr Hope he gets it going John T

I can't say about yours, but most are easily accessible from outside some with just 4 screws (rectangular cover) then slide out the cover which has tubes into the furnace for fresh air intake and exhaust output. If when the t stat calls for heat the blower starts running ???? but she never lights, typical problems may be the sail switch (bad or stuck or not enough air flow) ,,,,,,,,,or the ignitor tip isnt firing tic tic tic High Voltage to light the flame,,,,,,,,,,or the ignitor tip needs cleaned or adjusted to the right gap or is at fault,,,,,,,,,,,or the circuit board is bad,,,,,,,,,,,or Ive seen high temp limit switches fail open,,,,,,,,,,,,or the burner tube is clogged or sooty maybe just needs cleaned out ALL ASSUMING GOOD GAS SUPPLY. if it has air in lines it can take several tries before it will light. If running and blower is working you can feel/hear it exhausting outside the RV at the rectangular cover. They take up more height then ONLY under a shower step up. Look for the outside cover with the 4 screws and where they exhaust and take air in (two round tubes) . If blower runs if the sail switch closes as it does unless its stuck (low voltage can cause low air flow to prevent such form happening and it closing !!!) the gas vALVE opens with a CLUNK and the HV starts firing at the ignitor tip tic tic tic tic to light the flame. If no flame it times out and you have to start over. If you have the make n model you can download a manual from Bryant or other places (suburban or atwood etc) with troubleshooting tips etc John T

In some places I have successfully more or less HARD WIRED some of my solar cable connections (versus MC) using direct burial rated wire nuts (dielectric grease inside them) enclosed in a plastic water tight junction box. Sure MC can be fine and are used but correct direct burial rated wire nuts with dielectric grease inside a junction box makes for a solid low resistance high reliability splice in my humble opinion BUT HEY THATS JUST ME do as the experts tell you... I have seen instances of MC connections overheating and/or developing resistance..Probaly NOT used correctly ??? John T

I don't know your furnace operation but FWIW on some when the T stat calls for heat the blower starts running,,,,,,,Then IF there's adequate air flow and its functioning properly (Ive seen many switch failures or even them being blocked) the sail switch closes and IF the high temp limit switch is closed (as should be typically but they can fail) the circuit control board will cause the gas valve to open (can hear distinct clunk) and the HV ignitor tip will fire spark (snap snap snap) and if there's adequate gas present if will light.. I suspect/check the T stat (closure and 12 VDC to furnace) then for sail switch closure then the gas valve opening and the HV Ignitor Tip sparking and the gas burner lighting. Sure Control Boards go bad HOWEVER Ive more often seen the sail switch or the HV Ignitor Tip (hairline crack or carbon trace or not gapped correct) cause problems. Ifffffffff the sail switch never closes nothing else happens but if it does then the board has to cause the gas valve to open and Ignitor Tip to fire. As Wrnkrvr said, listen (or feel) to see if the gas valve clunks open ?? If there's air in the gas lines it can take some time to bleed out. Is there an On Off toggle switch on the furnace ?? Is there plenty of gas ?? Check all fuses !!!! maybe thats it !!!! SIMPLE THINGS FIRST No 12 VDC or no Ground, no working PS I have successfully performed troubleshooting with them OUT of the enclosure, but Im puzzled why when the T stat calls for heat the motor doesn't start turning??????? If the T stat isn't sending 12 volts down it wont spin so the sail switch cant make up followed by the boards opening the gas valve and sending HV to the ignitor tip. There has to be motor spin BEFORE anything else happens which takes me back to no 12 VDC (switch or fuse or bad wiring connection or missing ground) ... I once had a t stat with the hard left FULL OFF position that opened the circuit failed so EVEN when I turned up the temp no 12 volts was present to start the blower. Check the T stat also along with fuses and any onboard On Off switches and wiring connections and grounds.. If all else fails read the instructions lol and the manuals troubleshooting tips NOT me. Unfortunately circuit boards do fail but try the cheap easy simple things FIRST like connections and for 12 VDC and insure a good ground connection......... John T

AMEN if the cable that connects the two batteries in parallel is low resistance (Big and short) they pretty well have to balance. John T

Randy my experience and (old engineers) understanding of Li is similar. My Lith battery BMS will prevent overcharging, disconnect before the SOC becomes excessively low, and prevent low temp charging in case my Smart Lith charger fails to do parts of its job and charging algorithm. Also the resistance of Lith is such that they can accept high charging current in order to achieve 100% SOC faster then Lead Acid. For example, one reason I ordered a smart Lithium DC to DC charger to allow my engines alternator to deliver a certain degree of charging to my Li house batteries (Low resistance) is that if I connected my engines alternator direct to them they could draw excess current and over tax the alternator unless its has protection. As always fun sparky chatting with you John T Too long retired n rusty EE but still enjoy the topic

Until Randy arrives check out this link that will tell you more then you need to know about how best to connect multiple batteries in order to achieve balance so each receives or delivers equal charging and load current. Most aren't aware of the subtle differences and of course its best if EACH battery gets charged the same and delivers the same current into the load. NOTE sure it still works and there are a gazillion wired in parallel in simple straight ladder that work fine, but its good if EACH worked the same WELL DUH.. Of course, + to + and - to - and AGM or Lithium or Wet Flooded Lead Acid would still be the same as far as how to connect multiple batteries See if the experts agree or differ from the Smart Gauge approach as how to achieve the best balance, I tend to agree with their approach but that's just me and others may disagree which is to be expected. Of course, subject to how wired and the size,, length,, and resistance of the connecting cables matters and the differences in connection methods may be small or insignificant BUT THIS IS INFORMATION to take or leave as one pleases even if there's little difference I would prefer that EACH battery in parallel works the same. Thats my story n Ima stickin to it regardless lol . http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html John T

With TWO batteries in parallel the total max charging amps (subject to proper balance) would double (what each is) as only 1/2 in theory goes to each battery. IE if they each have 50 max charging amps the two in parallel can accept 100 Amps from all your charge sources.. I would NOT exceed the max charge rating but that's likely only possible if you have too many high enough current charging sources and the BMS may prevent it regardless READ THE LITERATURE don't take my word for it. Hope this helps and answers your question, as always see what the experts AND YOUR MANUALS have to say John T

1) Since we now know it actually has a setting for Lithium and its 14.4 volts (although my batteries state charge at 14.6 yet my charger is often around 14.4 or a tad above ?? but the accuracy is ??) THAT SOUNDS MUCH MORE REASONABLE and I'm more inclined to favor their use then I was above. I highly suspect your batteries BMS will shut down charging to protect the batteries, and if so ??? that's even more reason not to fear using your existing PD. 2) It's your money and your choice but I do not regret purchasing a Lithium specific charger versus my old PD even if it would have worked. 3) Like the others I can use BOTH my MPPT Solar Charge Controller as well as my Lithium Charger AT THE SAME TIME especially since I know my BMS will protect my batteries, not overcharge them, and allow only a float maintenance charge level (13+ Volts) once 100% SOC is achieved. 4) One final warning regarding the use of too many multiple charge sources IS NOT TO EXCEED THE BATTERIES MAX CHARGING AMPS (which multiple sources could well achieve subject to if the BMS will prevent it???) as they are expensive and you don't want to risk damage or voiding the warranty. ITS YOUR CHOICE I broke down and bought a Lithium specific charger even if my old PD would work, and I have NO regrets.. Again see what the experts have to say, regardless this is how I chose to proceed. John T