OT: Risk versus Benefit-A Personal Perspective

[SuiteSuccess]

My recent travails with my 2006 Volvo D12 has me pondering.  To rehash, luckily we were backing up to hitch at our storage facility when the truck coughed, sputtered and died.  Threw all kinds of codes and J1939 communication errors and said check just about every control module at next stop.  Next stop?  I was dead in the water with no restart.  Anyway turns out I have two issues:  1.  Cracked primer/secondary fuel filter housing sucking air and 2.  A dead ECM.  Now to the pondering.  The primer housing is fairly widely available.  The ECM for older trucks very difficult to find and very expensive $3-4k if dealer buys it.  Everything on back order and could be 3 days to 6 months.  Rebuilt ones can be had for $1500 that you can get personally.  Just need programming to your vin BY SHOP WITH COMPUTER and access to Volvo on line site where your parameters are stored.  Don’t know if that’s same with Pacar orCummins.  Now I’m not sure if that module has to be physically attached to the truck or just the computer software added by the dealer.  I’m just wondering if investing some $$ in those hard to find parts on older vehicles might be good insurance? Pay to have pre programmed.  May not get your money totally back with sell but I can imagine there is a market.  If we had been on our trip several hundreds of miles away, the cost of getting the trailer and/or truck home would be many thousands of $$.  Having to stay in an area for a long length of time waiting on parts would be problematic.  Insurance is not for everyday frequent occurrences..it’s for catastrophes.  Anyway, your thoughts?  And if you agree, in what “spares” would you invest?  Again just pondering.

[rickeieio]

Wellll, we've had a few "inconvenient" and "unscheduled" repairs.  After I had the truck in, what to me, was pretty good order, DW declared she didn't trust it for long runs.  So, we let it have a new home and bought a much newer, but not so much fewer miles, truck.

We all know folks who have trucks with LOTS of miles, and little trouble.  And then we know some who have fewer miles and much trouble.  You're retired.  Embrace the unexpected,  Besides, break downs are another opportunity to make new friends.😁

[SuiteSuccess]

9 minutes ago, rickeieio said:

Wellll, we've had a few "inconvenient" and "unscheduled" repairs.  After I had the truck in, what to me, was pretty good order, DW declared she didn't trust it for long runs.  So, we let it have a new home and bought a much newer, but not so much fewer miles, truck.

We all know folks who have trucks with LOTS of miles, and little trouble.  And then we know some who have fewer miles and much trouble.  You're retired.  Embrace the unexpected,  Besides, break downs are another opportunity to make new friends.😁

Sage advice from an old timer. 😂 but you taking an all too common approach and avoiding the question as posed, lol.  Again risk vs benefits. Your step up I assume was $$$$ compared to my insurance policy (spare parts) of $$.  Just a friendly discussion my friend. Besides I’ve got yours and David’s number. You want me to dig up some more Mason jars. 😜

[Parrformance]

Buy a used ECM, get the trip finished, then deal with the ECM rebuild.

My neighbor has a Class 8 tablet(he owns a trucking outfit), the ECM I bought came from a truck with a very similar VIN#, only last 6 were different.

I could drive the truck, but needed to create a way to manage the fan.

Might be able to get the dealer to reconfigure the options, but I just need it to work, so I added a thermostat control and relay with an override switch in the dash if I just want cold air when sitting still and idling.

So far so good 5000 miles and several trips, still “working”.

I am hopeful that you have good luck with the rebuilder, as I will stop by there on my way to Asheville and drop it off, if they do you a good job.

[Parrformance]

I forgot to say, the only thing the neighbor did with the tablet was to turn off the fleet management stuff my top end with limited, and something other small thing

[SuiteSuccess]

2 minutes ago, Parrformance said:

Buy a used ECM, get the trip finished, then deal with the ECM rebuild.

My neighbor has a Class 8 tablet(he owns a trucking outfit), the ECM I bought came from a truck with a very similar VIN#, only last 6 were different.

I could drive the truck, but needed to create a way to manage the fan.

Might be able to get the dealer to reconfigure the options, but I just need it to work, so I added a thermostat control and relay with an override switch in the dash if I just want cold air when sitting still and idling.

So far so good 5000 miles and several trips, still “working”.

I am hopeful that you have good luck with the rebuilder, as I will stop by there on my way to Asheville and drop it off, if they do you a good job.

Interesting my daughter dropped by and saw my order sheet and asked if we were having an appliance issue. When I told her no, she said they used the same folks to do a refrigerator circuit board repair and she gave them a 5 star rating for communication and service. Said still working fine 4 years later. 

[Parrformance]

Sounds like this may be a great shop, I sure hope so. 
When they repair the failed component the board might possibly still be a plug and play back it the truck.

[rickeieio]

Carl, the old "Risk v. Benefit" idea doesn't factor in stress or worry.  Peace of mind becomes more important with age (and you have plenty of age), and also as we get older, we likely find we can avoid risk by throwing large sums of money at the problem.  You've been very fortunate to have never had any large expenses in what, 12 years?  A few $K now is still cheap.

So, each individual needs to find where they're comfortable in spending v. worrying.  Our solution doesn't fit a lot of people.  Yes, we spent a chunk-o-change on a truck, but were able to build our own bed.  Net cost, after deducting the income from selling the old truck, would barely buy a decent 7-8 y/o dually.  YMMV.

[spindrift]

You'll run out of room in your spare parts locker purdy darn quick trying to anticipate what you might need for an on the road breakdown.  There are many old time truckers who will tell you that an old truck costs the same as a new truck.  The only thing different is when and how you make the payments.

This guy has pretty good reviews if you're interested in getting a price.  I don't know if he works on Volvo ECMs.

https://truckecm.com

I'll ask around and find out if any of my buddies can recommend a Volvo guy.  I wouldn't be at all concerned about putting a refurbished ECM in your truck as long as the tuner is a reputable business.

 

[Deezl Smoke]

 As Mr. Cobb once said "it's smiles per gallon, not miles per gallon".

 If ecm failure is a known issue on any brand truck, then yes, maybe having one on hand is a good thing. IMO, the only issue with your ecm availability is the D12. If it were a D13, I'd bet ecm's are plentiful.

 There's not much else that is different from a truck with a D13. Again IMO, I'd only look for things that are specific to my truck that may be hard to find. Otherwise, and I don't know anything about Canada or Mexico, but all across the USA, there will be people that "know things". Once sourced, those people can find things that no longer exist. It's a culture. Some are on craigslist and other ad media, some are word of mouth, but once you get a feel for your local underground resource, it'll work anywhere.

[SuiteSuccess]

7 hours ago, Deezl Smoke said:

 As Mr. Cobb once said "it's smiles per gallon, not miles per gallon".

 If ecm failure is a known issue on any brand truck, then yes, maybe having one on hand is a good thing. IMO, the only issue with your ecm availability is the D12. If it were a D13, I'd bet ecm's are plentiful.

 There's not much else that is different from a truck with a D13. Again IMO, I'd only look for things that are specific to my truck that may be hard to find. Otherwise, and I don't know anything about Canada or Mexico, but all across the USA, there will be people that "know things". Once sourced, those people can find things that no longer exist. It's a culture. Some are on craigslist and other ad media, some are word of mouth, but once you get a feel for your local underground resource, it'll work anywhere.

You are correct.  I have a pretty good relationship with the service manager at my local dealership but they are very expensive.  I’ve tried finding a local shop I can trust for just mechanical work but the nearest that fits that category is 60 miles.  Saying that, my truck is presently at the dealer mainly for computer diagnostics because the independents around here don’t have the access the dealer has with Volvo and refuse to do electrical gremlins.  The service manager told me they access parts from a couple of “central suppliers” and rarely go outside that network.  Now with everything “on back order” turnover time to get a part is a crap shoot at best and, as I’ve said before, working trucks needing those parts get moved to the front of the line.  It was only with my research and that good relationship with the service manager that I’m going outside the chain to get mine repaired.  Just not sure I’d be as lucky if I were a thousand miles from home.  Again that’s the risk we take but I like to mitigate that risk as much as possible, hence my pondering if carrying some tough to find spares might be good insurance.  BTW , Deezl, that is why it would be nice to maybe start a thread we could get pinned to the top or put in the Resource Guide of people, places, or companies that may be accessible for hard to find parts or services.

Edited June 15, 2023 by SuiteSuccess

[spindrift]

You can also join a Volvo truck performance group on Facebook and ask there.

[SuiteSuccess]

31 minutes ago, spindrift said:

You can also join a Volvo truck performance group on Facebook and ask there.

Spin,

I appreciate the input.  I’ve got the ECM part covered for now.  Hopefully the repair by circuit board medics will work.  Again, at my age, my mind ponders a lot more.  Most folks on here are a wealth of knowledge and I love sharing ideas and that knowledge and learn a lot from the “been there, done that, have the t-shirt” group.

[rickeieio]

1 hour ago, SuiteSuccess said:

“been there, done that, have the t-shirt”

But the t-shirts shrank while in the drawer.

[spindrift]

1 minute ago, rickeieio said:

But the t-shirts shrank while in the drawer.

Sure...whatever you say.

[sandsys]

4 hours ago, rickeieio said:

But the t-shirts shrank while in the drawer.

That's because everything needs sunlight to stay healthy.

Linda

[jenandjon]

Few people have had more trouble than me. Guy I bought it from said AC needs charged. It had a blown line. So... Rebuild the Air conditioning system. All the lines compressor and condenser. Exhaust manifold cracked, New turbo, new air cooler, head gasket, rebuilt transmission, rebuild rear end, Reconfigure the drive line because the guy that singled it didn't have the angles right. Every single coolant hose and line was either soft and ready to go or so rusty I couldn't trust them. 

That is just what I can think of right now. But I just turned 50. By the time I "retire" It will be in great shape to do all the traveling we want to.  Luckily I have a 60 series Detroit that anyone can work on and a manual transmission that wont throw codes. 

 

The thing with Volvo engines is this. If I am wrong someone will step in and say so. Volvo wont release the software to their engines. You have to go to a dealer. Any regular shop can not plug in and fix it. I found this out when I had my Mack. The mechanic at Mack told me this himself. Volvo and Mack are the same company now it goes for both brands. 

If I had known this was going to turn into a restoration project I would have chosen a cooler truck than a Freightliner Columbia. 

[rickeieio]

41 minutes ago, jenandjon said:

Volvo wont release the software to their engines.

And PACCAR is the same.  I can't get my speed limiter increased because PACCAR says my tires are only rated for 75 mph with a full legal load.  Hello, we're not commercial.  Doesn't matter.  And as far as I have found, nobody but a PACCAR dealer can get into the computer to change the values.  Some shops say they can, but none have been successful.

But, there are plenty of guys who now can work on later John Deeres.....  Just say'n.

[SuiteSuccess]

You guys are correct.  Volvo apparently has a central database that stores your parameters like the cloud. Dealer told me every time you change a parameter it is updated in that database via the computer link.  Only an authorized dealer can access that database.  So everything has become proprietary and with that setup, it’s $$ to access.  An example.  You used to be able to purchase stand alone Microsoft Office for Word, Excel, Power Point.  Now you must purchase a subscription and the old standalone will soon no longer be supported.  It’s all about the Benjamin’s.

[ddm502001]

This is where US Market trucks with US Engines get a better grade, HOWEVER, the issues of Obsolescence has flipped its evil head as to the older engines, the early year Electronics to late year model mechanicals and so on.  My 2005 W900 is a cab that is still produced but the interiors are totally different as well in 09 or 10 they began incorporating CAN-BUS systems, ABS, some electro-mechanical functions and the older hardwire simple systems became too costly to keep shelved.   As of Current designs, the KW/Pete PACCAR systems are obsolescing as fast as the engines.   Cummins N-series to the later X series and now the ISX where parts for N14 Series are almost non existent at Cummins NH, NT and NTC are no longer supported at Cummins.  9 Years from Last production Engine in a model line to Obsolescence.  Detroit Diesel DD14 were some of the later MB/Daimler designs, the 50 & 60 series are all but lost to Obsolescence.  CAT stopped On Highway production yet still produces a C15 and C18 for Off Highway even in trucks so there may be considerations to those returning.

Referring back to CAN BUS, ALL manufacturers have adopted that, to which I will not be adding a newer machine due to all the incorporation modules and cross module connections that fail routinely.  See that nearly weekly with Road Equipment as I still drive a Commercial Truck for a contractor here.  Newest Freightliner Trucks have up to 12 modules talking to a Central Control Module, Daimler's impact on over complicating Commercial trucks has pretty well damned them to programmed Scrap Material.  Even my 2012 Harley is Conventionally Wired.  Wife's 2017 Explorer has Nine Modules, Brother's F150 Eleven.  Warranty on ours is over so diagnostics are on me.  Brother's is a 2022, he has had his to the dealer since purchase five times for failed modules including his Tow Brake controller.

[ddm502001]

On 6/17/2023 at 7:31 AM, rickeieio said:

And PACCAR is the same.  I can't get my speed limiter increased because PACCAR says my tires are only rated for 75 mph with a full legal load.  Hello, we're not commercial.  Doesn't matter.  And as far as I have found, nobody but a PACCAR dealer can get into the computer to change the values.  Some shops say they can, but none have been successful.

But, there are plenty of guys who now can work on later John Deeres.....  Just say'n.

Cummins Provided the PACCAR Engines but refuse to service them in most instances.  Similar to DODGE Cummins in those early years, Cummins would point a owner with trouble to the nearest Dodge RAM Dealer.  Detroit Diesel is a wholly Owned Mercedes Benz/Daimler system these days.

[rickeieio]

I'll preface this with,,,,I've been wrong before.

My view is that the early days of any new technology are the worst.  Remember when we first got non-leaded fuel and catalytic convertors?  Nightmares everywhere, and dire predictions of impending doom.  We worked through it, and for the most part, systems performed as they should.  In 1986 I bought a car that had electronic fuel injection, electronic ignition, and (gasp) was turbo-charged.  Those in the know predicted it would spend more time at the shop than in my garage.  It turned out to be pretty trouble free for the 15 years we drove it.

Fast forward to the de-smogging of diesel engines.  The early days of EGR and DPF was a nightmare, exacerbated by people telling horror stories that may have been exaggerated a bit. Now we own a 2018 PACCAR with lots of the evil stuff hiding behind every trim panel.  But, I hope that by now, the bugs have been mostly exterminated from the systems, and it will perform flawlessly for the rest of our travelling days.  Or not.  Machines break, things wear out.  Deal with it.  Ya takes your chances.

[ddm502001]

DOC DPF systems have not changed, still made CHINA, still hard to achieve parts in some regions.  Sensors no bigger than Spark Plugs at over $600 is nonsense.  DPF and SCR Catalyst cartridges have palladium in them, the thieves have figured that out so beware.

[jenandjon]

On 6/17/2023 at 7:31 AM, rickeieio said:

And PACCAR is the same.  I can't get my speed limiter increased because PACCAR says my tires are only rated for 75 mph with a full legal load.  Hello, we're not commercial.  Doesn't matter.  And as far as I have found, nobody but a PACCAR dealer can get into the computer to change the values.  Some shops say they can, but none have been successful.

But, there are plenty of guys who now can work on later John Deeres.....  Just say'n.

My only experience with Paccar is the manager at Kenworth said he wont sell one to farmers. Because they keep coming back. 

We have a couple guys that we go to with the Deere stuff before the dealer. The dealership changed hands and they didn't like the new management so they went on their own. 

[Canyonrider]

SuiteSuccess 

Did you get Your ECM problem fixed?

There's a company in Canada that repairs electronics  XeModex 

There's a US group and  Canadian group. 

They have been great to deal with. There's a large group of us Duramax owners that have had bad TCMs that have been sending our modules to them.

Lifetime warranty  I dont know if thats for all repair. Mine couldn't be repaired, but I was reimbursed.