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Gigabit internet over the air is coming


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I made some comments as AreV in the discussion below this article.

 

Excerpt:

 

"Starry is using millimeter wave technology to wirelessly deliver internet connectivity to homes. If successful, it could disrupt cable companies, telcos, and the broadband market.

 

Starry, a new startup by the founders of Aereo, wants to deliver faster internet access to your home wirelessly, and with no data caps or complicated contracts. Starry, a part of Project Decibel, announced its debut on Wednesday.

 

The technology works by leveraging what Starry claims is "the world's first millimeter wave band active phased array technology for consumer internet communications." Starry can deliver speeds up to one gigabit—comparable speeds to Google Fiber—using hardware that consumers can install themselves and get connected "in minutes."

 

Typical Wi-Fi signals exist on the 2.4 GHz or 5 GHz radio bands. Millimeter waves, on the other hand, occupy what is sometimes referred to as the Extremely High Frequency (EHF) range from 30 GHz to 300 GHz. The EHF is traditionally used in fields such as radio astronomy and remote sensing, a geographical field.

 

Because these millimeters waves are a higher frequency than what is commonly used in Wi-Fi, and because they interact differently as they travel, they are better suited to transmit large amounts of data."

 

Much more in the article here: http://www.techrepublic.com/article/starry-launches-bid-to-deliver-gigabit-internet-over-the-air-with-new-technology/?tag=nl.e101&s_cid=e101&ttag=e101&ftag=TRE684d531

 

The last time they came out with a disruptive technology they scared the existing content providers enough to get brought to court. Maybe this time? This is very much vaporware today, but bears watching for further development.

 

If for some reason this becomes real and is deployed, it could be a big boon for RVrs.

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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in the asia sector of the world they already have 4g/5g internet. USA is so slow compared to most of the world. of course most hardware in todays usa sold laptops/desktops would not support that speed. but wouldn't it be awesome to click on a dvd movie an d/l it in 1 or 2 seconds.

2000 Itasca Horizon DP (Got Total During Irma). 

Vice President of Charlotte County Defenders LE MC

http://charlotte.defenderslemc.com/

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It would be pretty awesome in most RV parks just to be able to stream a video or see a youtube instructional video without choppiness.

RVBuddys Journal Our progress into full-timing.
Budd & Merrily ===-> SKP# 088936 Other Websites:---> Hub of all my blogs
Clifford - 2000 VNL64T770 :: DakotR - 1999 C40KS King of the Road :: $PRITE - 2013 Smart Passion w/cruise

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Just for the record, the FCC redefined the word Broadband to mean a minimum of 24mbps down and 3mbps up. Tell that to all those park owners advertising "broadband" connectivity. In just 2010, it was defined as: 4mbps down and 1mbps up. It is likely to be changed to 100mbps down and 30mbps up before 2019.... or higher but implementations are lagging behind the curve.

 

 

 

Congress directed us to evaluate annually “whether advanced telecommunications
capability is being deployed to all Americans in a reasonable and timely fashion.”2 For a service to be
considered advanced, it must enable Americans “to originate and receive high-quality voice, data,
graphics, and video telecommunications.”3 We can no longer conclude that broadband at speeds of 4
megabits per second (Mbps) download and 1 Mbps upload (4 Mbps/1 Mbps)—a benchmark established
in 2010 and relied on in the last three Reports—supports the “advanced” functions Congress identified.4
Trends in deployment and adoption, the speeds that providers are offering today, and the speeds required
to use high-quality video, data, voice, and other broadband applications all point at a new benchmark.
The average household has more than 2.5 people, and for family households, the average household size
is as high as 4.3.5 We take the needs of multiple users into account when considering what level of
service is necessary to be considered advanced telecommunications capability. We consider, too, the
services that providers are offering today, as well as the services that American consumers are choosing.
With these factors in mind, we find that, having “advanced telecommunications capability” requires
access to actual download speeds of at least 25 Mbps and actual upload speeds of at least 3 Mbps (25
Mbps/3 Mbps). Source doc

 

RVBuddys Journal Our progress into full-timing.
Budd & Merrily ===-> SKP# 088936 Other Websites:---> Hub of all my blogs
Clifford - 2000 VNL64T770 :: DakotR - 1999 C40KS King of the Road :: $PRITE - 2013 Smart Passion w/cruise

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Bud and all the others here wishing but not thinking much is happening have to realize that the Satellites for an LEO solution, as well as new 30GHz and above very very high frequency new algorithms and hardware emerging from sources that already have been working on this for the last three years, are all but executed. Musk is in the building stage and will execute sometime this year and the next.

Add the above Starry/Aereo new frequency multipliers to the mix and you have a lot going on that will benefit RVs as well as poor nations around the world, with always on connect-ability.

BTW, the frequencies will be transmitting from LEO, not GEOS orbits. You can't compare a direct TV GEOS signal to an LEO signal. LEO quick primers:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Earth_orbit
Very short: http://www.marinesatellitesystems.com/index.php?page_id=110

Google and Fidelity have already paid Elon Musk and his Space X team over a billion dollars to research and deploy a world encompassing constellation of mini sats to provide cheap and reliable telecommunications both cell or perhaps a totally new device for voice calls and more. How about a $100.00-500 sat phone that is a smart sat phone.

Now let me be clear. Google is already doing Google fiber free for 5MB service, and inexpensive above that speed. But again the cost and time for fiber everywhere was the only alternative until Musk produced a new Launch alternative that is 1/3 the cost of the others, and has already used a deployment system that has multiple satellites, under protective covers, that pop off like kernels on a corn stalk. That is how they put them in orbit now. There are lots of videos but the last big mission video has actual live pictures recorded as the satellites are "popped out." This vide is 45 minute plus long and also shows their landing of the first stage safely on land. To see how far we have come go here and fast forward the video to 37:28 into the video:



If you watched you'll see that, unlike before, when one launch was one or at most two satellite deployed, today SpaceX can deploy ten or more per launch/mission, His complete launch fees are half or less of the ULA and others still using the Russian rocket engines. So make that 1/5 or 1/10th of the past fees of half what the others cost.

Musk needs to make the money needed to go to, and then colonize, Mars. If you take the time to go through the Space X Falcon Heavy page you'll see that it is launching for its first of many test launches later this year. http://www.spacex.com/falcon-heavy That page also scrolled down has a chart of the Falcon Heavy compared to what is available today. Here in pictures is the first pad abort test of the Dragon crew capsule. http://www.spacex.com/news/2015/05/06/crew-dragon-completes-pad-abort-test

What I find amazing is that most folks haven't a clue. Back in the 50s and 60s when we launched any space mission, the whole world watched, even more so in the 70s with the moon missions. Today, not so much. It seems the only vocal folks are the naysayers and ULA schills trying to make their bloated overcharged and currently severely curtailed launch schedule even remotely competitive. Why? because of few engines at hand! SpaceX just got certified by the AF for the manned missions too. We no longer will have to depend on Russia for personnel lifts to space, and their return.

NASA announced last year that they were developing a space craft to go to mars in 25 years. Musk says his craft will go in 2025.
From the article last May:

"Occupying Mars
While NASA and its old-industry partners -- Orbital ATK and GenCorp, Boeing and Lockheed Martin (NYSE:LMT) -- are all busily trying to assemble an SLS for a trip to Mars 25 years from now, privately owned SpaceX is making leap-ahead progress... today.

SpaceX already advertises on its website one rocket capable of lifting 53 tons of payload to LEO. That's about 75% of what SLS will do when it's ready... three years from now. And the modular way in which SpaceX is building its Falcon 9 family of spacecraft -- nine engines to a booster, one booster for a basic Falcon 9 rocket, three boosters for a Falcon Heavy -- suggests that, assuming my algebra is right, by adding two more boosters to the basic Falcon configuration, a Falcon "superheavy" rocket could lift as much as 88 metric tons -- 26% more than SLS.

And that's not all. As SpaceX CEO Elon Musk informed investors in a recent chat on Reddit, SpaceX is hard at work adding an order-of-magnitude improvement on the Falcon design. Dubbed "Raptor," Musk says that the new rocket he's building for a manned Mars mission will be big enough to send 100 tons of payload, and/or 100 live human colonists -- not just into orbit, but all the way to Mars.

What's more, because SpaceX is actively working to incorporate vertical landing-and-takeoff technology into its rockets, Falcon and its successors will be the first true "reusable" rockets.

So what does all of this mean for NASA and its contractors -- and taxpayers?

What it means to you
Two things. First and most immediately, SpaceX is already neck and neck with NASA's usual contractors when it comes to the ability to lift payloads into LEO. And SpaceX says it can do it cheaper than NASA, and once it works out the kinks in its reusable rocket tech, much cheaper. More importantly for Mars futurists, though, SpaceX is going to be able to take its "reusable" rocket technology, developed for use on Earth, and translate that into rockets that can go to Mars... and then come back.

For anyone making the outbound trip, that's going to be a key selling point, and a big point in SpaceX's favor. Meanwhile, NASA is still staring at an anticipated $7 billion program cost for SLS through first launch in 2018, and an anticipated $500 million-per-launch cost after 2018.
It gets you to thinking: Maybe the commercialization of space exploration isn't just a good idea for the future. Maybe it's already here."

That Motley Fool Article, published 7 months ago, with much more and charts is here: http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/03/22/nasa-test-fires-largest-rocket-ever-spacex-yawns.aspx

All that to say that cheap mini sat LEO constellation launches are only waiting for the development of the mini satellites themselves, WHICH IS ALREADY PAID FOR, ($1B plus a year ago) IS ONGOING, AND WILL START SOON. (NEXT ONE TO TWO YEARS.)

All this makes the LEO comm system soon to be launched, providing less or the same latency (lag) than current cell phones, as well as cheap broadband, pretty much in the home stretch. Watch.

To me, it all means that RVrs and anyone traveling, could have one broadband provider wherever you travel, anywhere in the world.

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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We covered this recently as well... doesn't look overly interesting for RVers, at least in the near term:

 

Starry Eyed Startup Aims To Deliver Gigabit Wireless Internet

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Technomads (technology enabled nomads) since 2006

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We covered this recently as well... doesn't look overly interesting for RVers, at least in the near term:

We had wireless internet service in central america (Panama) for 6 years. Worked pretty well but a fixed directional antenna was needed to point at the source signal.

Later,

J

2012 Landmark, San Antonio

2013 Silverado CC, 3500HD, Duramax, DRW, 4x4

Backup, side and hitch cameras, Tireminder TPMS

 

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It's the same kind of point to point to multipoint system that WiMax demonstrated could work well, but with different freqs and millimeter active phased array electronics. My hope is that Alphabet, Google's parent company, (that also incidentally yesterday, took over from Apple as the most valuable company in the world,) will, with a mini sat constellation in Low Earth Orbit will supply the mobile connectivity, and the point to multi point end WAN would provide enough affordable LOS bandwidth to supply the backend of Park and destination WiFi systems, as well as municipal system back and front ends. My hopes and hypothesis are indeed colored by my exasperation with folks complaining about the lack of fast broadband within city limits in many cases. My cable company does the old bundle shuffle, then raises the price annually by 10-20% citing infrastructure costs when those have declined to 1/3 of what they were ten years ago.

 

Near term to me is five years, say by 2021. RVrs run around trying to find free fast WiFi due to data caps and costs, as well as limited speeds for WiFi which is really taking a back seat to cell data now that its speeds have picked up. Inexpensive fast GB broadband will impact RVrs wherever they stop, regardless of how the cell, WiFi, EHF, LEO Satellite is delivered, or by whom.

 

Until deployed widely, both are vaporware, granted.

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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  • 2 weeks later...

in the asia sector of the world they already have 4g/5g internet. USA is so slow compared to most of the world. of course most hardware in todays usa sold laptops/desktops would not support that speed. but wouldn't it be awesome to click on a dvd movie an d/l it in 1 or 2 seconds.

i do agree with you since the us has the slowest speeds and the highest costs

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The problem with using the GHz frequencies with any kind of satellite is the frequencies are getting up towards the light range and so propagate similar to light. You need direct line of sight at all times and range is limited to a mile or less, and even then clouds, fog and even dust in the atmosphere will absorb the signal.

 

Satellite based Internet that only works on clear days and starry nights won't cut it.

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The problem with using the GHz frequencies with any kind of satellite is the frequencies are getting up towards the light range and so propagate similar to light. You need direct line of sight at all times and range is limited to a mile or less, and even then clouds, fog and even dust in the atmosphere will absorb the signal.

 

Satellite based Internet that only works on clear days and starry nights won't cut it.

then you got to think about the latency issues with satellite internet. you can't game on wild blue hugesnet or dish internet!! though the place I work for we use satellite internet and there's no latency issues but then again it's a commercial system and they charge to use it :o:ph34r:

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Bud and all the others here wishing but not thinking much is happening have to realize that the Satellites for an LEO solution, as well as new 30GHz and above very very high frequency new algorithms and hardware emerging from sources that already have been working on this for the last three years, are all but executed. Musk is in the building stage and will execute sometime this year and the next.

 

Add the above Starry/Aereo new frequency multipliers to the mix and you have a lot going on that will benefit RVs as well as poor nations around the world, with always on connect-ability.

 

BTW, the frequencies will be transmitting from LEO, not GEOS orbits. You can't compare a direct TV GEOS signal to an LEO signal. LEO quick primers:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Earth_orbit

Very short: http://www.marinesatellitesystems.com/index.php?page_id=110

 

Google and Fidelity have already paid Elon Musk and his Space X team over a billion dollars to research and deploy a world encompassing constellation of mini sats to provide cheap and reliable telecommunications both cell or perhaps a totally new device for voice calls and more. How about a $100.00-500 sat phone that is a smart sat phone.

 

Now let me be clear. Google is already doing Google fiber free for 5MB service, and inexpensive above that speed. But again the cost and time for fiber everywhere was the only alternative until Musk produced a new Launch alternative that is 1/3 the cost of the others, and has already used a deployment system that has multiple satellites, under protective covers, that pop off like kernels on a corn stalk. That is how they put them in orbit now. There are lots of videos but the last big mission video has actual live pictures recorded as the satellites are "popped out." This vide is 45 minute plus long and also shows their landing of the first stage safely on land. To see how far we have come go here and fast forward the video to 37:28 into the video:

 

If you watched you'll see that, unlike before, when one launch was one or at most two satellite deployed, today SpaceX can deploy ten or more per launch/mission, His complete launch fees are half or less of the ULA and others still using the Russian rocket engines. So make that 1/5 or 1/10th of the past fees of half what the others cost.

 

Musk needs to make the money needed to go to, and then colonize, Mars. If you take the time to go through the Space X Falcon Heavy page you'll see that it is launching for its first of many test launches later this year. http://www.spacex.com/falcon-heavy That page also scrolled down has a chart of the Falcon Heavy compared to what is available today. Here in pictures is the first pad abort test of the Dragon crew capsule. http://www.spacex.com/news/2015/05/06/crew-dragon-completes-pad-abort-test

 

What I find amazing is that most folks haven't a clue. Back in the 50s and 60s when we launched any space mission, the whole world watched, even more so in the 70s with the moon missions. Today, not so much. It seems the only vocal folks are the naysayers and ULA schills trying to make their bloated overcharged and currently severely curtailed launch schedule even remotely competitive. Why? because of few engines at hand! SpaceX just got certified by the AF for the manned missions too. We no longer will have to depend on Russia for personnel lifts to space, and their return.

 

NASA announced last year that they were developing a space craft to go to mars in 25 years. Musk says his craft will go in 2025.

From the article last May:

 

"Occupying Mars

While NASA and its old-industry partners -- Orbital ATK and GenCorp, Boeing and Lockheed Martin (NYSE:LMT) -- are all busily trying to assemble an SLS for a trip to Mars 25 years from now, privately owned SpaceX is making leap-ahead progress... today.

SpaceX already advertises on its website one rocket capable of lifting 53 tons of payload to LEO. That's about 75% of what SLS will do when it's ready... three years from now. And the modular way in which SpaceX is building its Falcon 9 family of spacecraft -- nine engines to a booster, one booster for a basic Falcon 9 rocket, three boosters for a Falcon Heavy -- suggests that, assuming my algebra is right, by adding two more boosters to the basic Falcon configuration, a Falcon "superheavy" rocket could lift as much as 88 metric tons -- 26% more than SLS.

And that's not all. As SpaceX CEO Elon Musk informed investors in a recent chat on Reddit, SpaceX is hard at work adding an order-of-magnitude improvement on the Falcon design. Dubbed "Raptor," Musk says that the new rocket he's building for a manned Mars mission will be big enough to send 100 tons of payload, and/or 100 live human colonists -- not just into orbit, but all the way to Mars.

What's more, because SpaceX is actively working to incorporate vertical landing-and-takeoff technology into its rockets, Falcon and its successors will be the first true "reusable" rockets.

So what does all of this mean for NASA and its contractors -- and taxpayers?

What it means to you

Two things. First and most immediately, SpaceX is already neck and neck with NASA's usual contractors when it comes to the ability to lift payloads into LEO. And SpaceX says it can do it cheaper than NASA, and once it works out the kinks in its reusable rocket tech, much cheaper. More importantly for Mars futurists, though, SpaceX is going to be able to take its "reusable" rocket technology, developed for use on Earth, and translate that into rockets that can go to Mars... and then come back.

For anyone making the outbound trip, that's going to be a key selling point, and a big point in SpaceX's favor. Meanwhile, NASA is still staring at an anticipated $7 billion program cost for SLS through first launch in 2018, and an anticipated $500 million-per-launch cost after 2018.

It gets you to thinking: Maybe the commercialization of space exploration isn't just a good idea for the future. Maybe it's already here."

 

That Motley Fool Article, published 7 months ago, with much more and charts is here: http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/03/22/nasa-test-fires-largest-rocket-ever-spacex-yawns.aspx

 

All that to say that cheap mini sat LEO constellation launches are only waiting for the development of the mini satellites themselves, WHICH IS ALREADY PAID FOR, ($1B plus a year ago) IS ONGOING, AND WILL START SOON. (NEXT ONE TO TWO YEARS.)

 

All this makes the LEO comm system soon to be launched, providing less or the same latency (lag) than current cell phones, as well as cheap broadband, pretty much in the home stretch. Watch.

 

To me, it all means that RVrs and anyone traveling, could have one broadband provider wherever you travel, anywhere in the world.

I wonder if this will become profitable for musk since none of his other companies are!!!

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RV, on 03 Feb 2016 - 12:55 AM, said:

It's the same kind of point to point to multipoint system that WiMax demonstrated could work well, but with different freqs and millimeter active phased array electronics. My hope is that Alphabet, Google's parent company, (that also incidentally yesterday, took over from Apple as the most valuable company in the world,) will, with a mini sat constellation in Low Earth Orbit will supply the mobile connectivity, and the point to multi point end WAN would provide enough affordable LOS bandwidth to supply the backend of Park and destination WiFi systems, as well as municipal system back and front ends. My hopes and hypothesis are indeed colored by my exasperation with folks complaining about the lack of fast broadband within city limits in many cases. My cable company does the old bundle shuffle, then raises the price annually by 10-20% citing infrastructure costs when those have declined to 1/3 of what they were ten years ago.

 

Near term to me is five years, say by 2021. RVrs run around trying to find free fast WiFi due to data caps and costs, as well as limited speeds for WiFi which is really taking a back seat to cell data now that its speeds have picked up. Inexpensive fast GB broadband will impact RVrs wherever they stop, regardless of how the cell, WiFi, EHF, LEO Satellite is delivered, or by whom.

 

Until deployed widely, both are vaporware, granted.

 

Lou,

I guess I'm not being clear. I'm looking at both as solutions for ground and mobile.

I'm talking about the GHz bands being LOS point to multipoint originating on the ground as the backhaul for RV Parks. Large amounts of data for wireless WANs. The Satellites in LEO will be providing low latency cell and Internet as well. The big difference is underserved areas requiring large amounts of backhaul data, like RV parks, can be served, as well as mobile sat phone data from LEO.

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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ganto, on 15 Feb 2016 - 7:12 PM, said:

then you got to think about the latency issues with satellite internet. you can't game on wild blue hugesnet or dish internet!! though the place I work for we use satellite internet and there's no latency issues but then again it's a commercial system and they charge to use it :o:ph34r:

 

LEO & GEO were explained in the links. Your enterprise GEOS services cannot travel any faster than the consumer contracts. Comparing with charts and latency times that the signal can't reduce because they're limited by the speed of light, if nothing else. The sats you've discussed are GEOS.

 

Excerpt from: "Faster than fiber: Advantages and challenges of LEO communications satellite systems"

 

"LEO applies to objects in motion approximately 1,000 miles above the Earth which includes all manned space stations and the majority of satellites. Moving objects in a MEO system, often called “fiber-in-the-sky,” orbit between GEO and LEO at approximately 5,000 to 10,000 miles above the Earth. The primary difference between MEO and LEO systems as compared to the majority of communications satellites in geostationary orbit is altitude. Location is everything. MEO and LEO satellites travel overhead at all times, instead of tracking with a fixed point on Earth as GEO satellites do. This type of orbit allows them to provide constant coverage through a constellation of several satellites that are closer to Earth, offering a significant performance advantage with low latency. Here’s a real-world example from a Harris CapRock customer."

 

That page, with drawings of the three main orbits, and their latency times given in milliseconds is here: http://scitation.aip.org/content/aip/proceeding/aipcp/10.1063/1.47249

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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Won't work. Math is constant, sales people and VCs are not.

 

The laws of physics are pretty hard and true. Anything over 25Ghz in frequency is drastically affected by water molecules, and well, there are those nasty little things in the air we breathe. Add a bit more moisture, like fog, rain, or clouds, and distance will be limited to feet, not miles at those frequencies.

 

It's always nice to dream, but those high frequencies are great in outer space, but in an atmosphere, they have some pretty limited uses.

 

We're testing a 38Ghz radio right now. A nice 1 foot directional antenna, with a whopping 0.75 degree beam width, and at 3 miles the thing will fall down with *any* amount of rain to less than the data rate of a WiFi 2.4Ghz radio on the same path.

 

Even low orbit is 70-80 miles, and clouds are less than predictable, so I would say its not going to be a reality, but IMHO who knows. Science may figure out how to quantum bypass it around the stupid water molecules.

 

Whitespace? Thats another story, and plenty of it exists for use. I'd bet my rural Internet on old TV station channels than anything else.

 

2008 DynaMax Ultra Sport 45 (WFRMax)
450HP Mercedes, Allison 6 Auto, Cat GenSet
WiFiRanger GoG (775205), WFRMobile, WFRXtreme

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Lots of possibilities coming online. White space will, as always, be the preferred wireless bands because the lower freqs do pass through barriers better than higher freqs.

 

I'm excited about anything that increases broadband here in the US.

 

Imagine LEO sats operating in the white space between the freqs being used by OTA television now for the excellent HD signals for much of CONUS. We cut the cable TV and have no option but to get gouged by our cable company for now. Give me any alternative for my current 100mbps cable broadband and I'm gone.

 

I hope everyone found it as interesting as I do.

 

Safe travels!

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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