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Is being a legal resident of a state the same as having domicile there?


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Folks:

 

I apologize for asking a question that’s been beaten to death but I’m confused by a possible wrinkle caused by the ACA and by Texas Blue Cross eliminating the PPO option.

 

According to that very helpful and informative website that we got in an Escapees email:

https://www.rverinsurance.com/uncategorized/rver-guide-to-2016-aca-open-enrollment/

 

Important Note: You can not simply get an address in another state and purchase your coverage there. You have to be a legal resident of that state. That is an ACA requirement!”

 

Is being a legal resident of a state the same as having domicile there?

 

We’ll be spending most of 2016 in Chicago. (Granddaughter!) My wife has to apply for an ACA plan. Getting a Texas HMO makes no sense. But if my wife gets a Chicago PPO does that mean she has to give up her Texas domicile. If she does, do I?

 

I really don’t want to have to give up my Texas driver’s license or domicile. We’ve been Texas residents since 1988. (We've had a Livingston address via Escapees since we sold the house.) Furthermore, our current living conditions have no permanency to them: We’re renting a basement from which we would have to move if our landlady decides to sell the house.

 

Any info or insight on this would be greatly appreciated. It may even help other people in a similar situation.

 

Thanks!

 

Harry

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Is being a legal resident of a state the same as having domicile there?

 

We’ll be spending most of 2016 in Chicago. (Granddaughter!) My wife has to apply for an ACA plan. Getting a Texas HMO makes no sense. But if my wife gets a Chicago PPO does that mean she has to give up her Texas domicile. If she does, do I?

For insurance the answer to your question is yes, but if you actually live in Chicago and spend most of your time there, you could have some question about the validity of your Texas domicile. It isn't legal to just pick a state and claim it. You not only need to qualify for domicile under the laws of the chosen state, but when you spend most of your time in another state you may well be required by that state to take up domicile in that state. If you are renting an apartment in Chicago, how is it that you claim to reside in TX?

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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"Is being a legal resident of a state the same as having domicile there?

 

Well be spending most of 2016 in Chicago. "

 

Yes, "legal resident" and domicile are essentially the same.

Most written laws use the term legal resident, instead of domicile.

Since domicile usually involves the fuzzy world of "intent", its not as easy to write a clear definition. Its more of a legal special circumstance than a legal term.

 

But in your case, "Well be spending most of 2016 in Chicago", that by itself means you'll be Ill residents, not Texans. It doesn't matter if your Ill residence is a house, condo, basement apt, tent, RV or boat; the fact that you live in that state for more than 6 months, makes you a resident. Keeping your Tx drivers lic while living in Ill for the whole year would be a clear violation of the law. The only question is, will you get caught.

 

The fulltimers flexibility to choose a domicile is based on them moving from state to state continuously. As soon as you stop moving for more than short term, you loose the right to choose your domicile. Your domicile (legal residence) is where you live.

Those who have no fixed home & change the state where they live every few months get to choose a domicile state. Those who have multiple residences in different states get to choose one as their domicile. Those who get sent out of state to a short term temporary residence, get to keep their home state as their domicile. Those who "spend most of the year in state xyz" have no choice in their domicile, they chose state xyz as their legal residence & domicile by living in it most of the year.

Jim

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Living in IL. Income Tax laws



Individuals. The purpose of the general definition is to include in the category of individuals who are taxable on their entire net income, regardless of whether derived from sources within or without Illinois, and all individuals who are physically present in Illinois enjoying the benefit of its government, except those individuals who are here temporarily, and to exclude from this category all individuals who, although domiciled in Illinois, are outside Illinois for other than temporary and transitory purposes and, hence, do not obtain the benefit of Illinois government. If an individual acquires the status of a resident by virtue of being physically present in Illinois for other than temporary or transitory purposes, he or she remains a resident even though temporarily absent from Illinois. If, however, he or she leaves Illinois for other than temporary or transitory purposes, he or she ceases to be a resident. If an individual is domiciled in Illinois, he or she remains a resident unless he or she is outside Illinois for other than temporary or transitory purposes.



Temporary or transitory purposes. Whether or not the purpose for which an individual is in Illinois will be considered temporary or transitory in character will depend upon the facts and circumstances of each particular case. It can be stated generally, however, that if an individual is simply passing through Illinois on his or her way to another state, or is here for a brief rest or vacation or to complete a particular transaction, perform a particular contract, or fulfill a particular engagement that will require his or her presence in Illinois for but a short period, he or she is in Illinois for temporary or transitory purposes and will not be a resident by virtue of his or her presence here. If, however, an individual is in Illinois to improve his or her health and his or her illness is of such a character as to require a relatively long or indefinite period to recuperate, or he or she is here for business purposes that will require a long or indefinite period to accomplish, or is employed in a position that may last permanently or indefinitely, or has retired from business and moved to Illinois with no definite intention of leaving shortly thereafter, he or she is in Illinois for other than temporary or transitory purposes and, accordingly, is a resident taxable upon his or her entire net income even though he or she may also maintain an abode in some other state.



Domicile. Domicile has been defined as the place where an individual has his or her true, fixed, permanent home and principal establishment, the place to which he or she intends to return whenever absent. It is the place in which an individual has voluntarily fixed the habitation of himself or herself and family, not for a mere special or limited purpose, but with the present intention of making a permanent home, until some unexpected event shall occur to induce adoption of some other permanent home. Another definition of "domicile" consistent with this is the place where an individual has fixed his or her habitation and has a permanent residence without any present intention of permanently moving. An individual can at any one time have but one domicile. If an individual has acquired a domicile at one place, he or she retains that domicile until he or she acquires another elsewhere. Thus, if an individual who has acquired a domicile in California, for example, comes to Illinois for a rest or vacation or on business or for some other purpose, but intends either to return to California or to go elsewhere as soon as his or her purpose in Illinois is achieved, he or she retains domicile in California and does not acquire domicile in Illinois. Likewise, an individual who is domiciled in Illinois and leaves the State retains Illinois domicile as long as he or she has the definite intention of returning to Illinois. On the other hand, an individual domiciled in California who comes to Illinois with the intention of remaining indefinitely and with no fixed intention of returning to California loses his or her California domicile and acquires Illinois domicile the moment he or she enters the State. Similarly, an individual domiciled in Illinois loses Illinois domicile:

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Hope I can tag along on this thread because I have a similar question to harrysteven. We'll be staying in Pennsylvania for the '16/'17 school year (9 months) so our granddaughter can attend Kindergarten without having to also do "before school" and "after school" sessions which would make for a very long day. Because our 9 month stay would be divided over the two calendar years thus keeping us under 6 months in either calendar year do we avoid this "legal resident" dilemma?

Clarkie
Dick & Linda, hosting Abbie, our miniature Dachshund.
23.5' Lazy Daze MH
Newberg, Oregon

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No they are NOT the same. We are residents of Florida our Domicile is Ohio.

Helen and I are long timers ..08 F-350 Ford,LB,CC,6.4L,4X4, Dually,4:10 diff dragging around a 2013 Montana 3402 Big Sky

SKP 100137. North Ridgeville, Ohio in the summer, sort of and where ever it is warm in the winter.

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We'll be staying in Pennsylvania for the '16/'17 school year (9 months) so our granddaughter can attend Kindergarten without having to also do "before school" and "after school" sessions which would make for a very long day. Because our 9 month stay would be divided over the two calendar years thus keeping us under 6 months in either calendar year do we avoid this "legal resident" dilemma?

What you need to do is to look into the laws of Pennsylvania on the subject. While most states have some requirements to be met in order to register vehicles and get your driver's license in them, very few will object to accepting your money to renew once you have qualified so do not expel anyone. But the problem comes from the state where you are physically located as all states have laws that specify when you are required to register your vehicles there and to get their driving licenses and such. Making it even more complicated is the fact that the term domicile is one of court ruling and few states even mention that term in any of their statutes. In addition, if you choose TX, FL, or SD as domicile and do all required to meet the laws of the chosen state, that is not protection from the laws of another state where you happen to have a physical presence.

 

The state laws that I have investigated state some period of time that one is allowed to be considered a temporary resident and so not change states of vehicle registration and driver's licensing, after which you can be fined for failure to do so. Most states have a period of around 6 months for those not holding employment and usually about 30 days if you are employed. The best way to know the situation in either Pennsylvania or Illinois would be for each of you to contact the local Department of Motor Vehicles(DMV) office and ask them. Since you can do this anonymously it won't cause any enforcement effort to do so. The other thing to consider is how active the local authorities are in the enforcement of such laws, as that varies quite widely from area to area. Some people who do violate these laws do so for very long periods without ever suffering any penalty, while other areas are very proactive in enforcing the residency laws.

 

If I were to guess, I'd suspect that registering a child for school will trigger legal residency where you are, but even that varies from state to state so you need to ask a local authority. We have many "shade tree lawyers" in our community and sometimes they know for sure but most of us are just guessing, based upon our own experiences. Some years ago I did a lot of research on the domicile issue for an article that I wrote for Escapees magazine. The thing that I found most is a complete lack of consistency from state to state.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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I’d like to thank everyone who replied.

 

I won’t bore everyone with the detailed reasons why I thought I might be able to continue my Texas domicile, (the issue of intent: our RV and two storage rooms are in Texas, driving down to Texas to get dental work done from my long-time dentist, etc.,) but it seems clear that once my wife applies for coverage from an Illinois PPO that does it.

 

I want to thank Kirk for the detailed info and suggestion, (I had read his article on domicile several years ago, more than once,) Jim for helping me understand the issue of intent more clearly, and Biker for that very useful excerpt from Illinois law.

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Yes Residence/Resident is different than Legal Resident and Domicile. That wasn't the question.

 

You may be a part time resident of Fl but if your domicile is Ohio, then Ohio is your "legal residence".

 

< http://domicile.uslegal.com/distinctions-between-domicile-and-residence/ >

Yes we are clear on the difference between Domicile and Residence and ACA did not cause it. It has always been so

Helen and I are long timers ..08 F-350 Ford,LB,CC,6.4L,4X4, Dually,4:10 diff dragging around a 2013 Montana 3402 Big Sky

SKP 100137. North Ridgeville, Ohio in the summer, sort of and where ever it is warm in the winter.

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What you need to do is to look into the laws of Pennsylvania on the subject. While most states have some requirements to be met in order to register vehicles and get your driver's license in them, very few will object to accepting your money to renew once you have qualified so do not expel anyone. But the problem comes from the state where you are physically located as all states have laws that specify when you are required to register your vehicles there and to get their driving licenses and such. Making it even more complicated is the fact that the term domicile is one of court ruling and few states even mention that term in any of their statutes. In addition, if you choose TX, FL, or SD as domicile and do all required to meet the laws of the chosen state, that is not protection from the laws of another state where you happen to have a physical presence.

 

The state laws that I have investigated state some period of time that one is allowed to be considered a temporary resident and so not change states of vehicle registration and driver's licensing, after which you can be fined for failure to do so. Most states have a period of around 6 months for those not holding employment and usually about 30 days if you are employed. The best way to know the situation in either Pennsylvania or Illinois would be for each of you to contact the local Department of Motor Vehicles(DMV) office and ask them. Since you can do this anonymously it won't cause any enforcement effort to do so. The other thing to consider is how active the local authorities are in the enforcement of such laws, as that varies quite widely from area to area. Some people who do violate these laws do so for very long periods without ever suffering any penalty, while other areas are very proactive in enforcing the residency laws.

 

If I were to guess, I'd suspect that registering a child for school will trigger legal residency where you are, but even that varies from state to state so you need to ask a local authority. We have many "shade tree lawyers" in our community and sometimes they know for sure but most of us are just guessing, based upon our own experiences. Some years ago I did a lot of research on the domicile issue for an article that I wrote for Escapees magazine. The thing that I found most is a complete lack of consistency from state to state.

 

Thanks, Kirk, for this reply. I should have clarified that our granddaughter will be registered for school by her mother who is a legal resident of Pennsylvania. Our presence for the school year will be to help get this girl to and from a half-day Kindergarten when her mother is unavailable because of her employment.

 

I have researched the relevant laws of PA, and to no-one's surprise, they are to some degree contradictory. For vehicle purposes the continuous presence in the state for 9 months will get us in trouble with the DMV unless we license our vehicle and ourselves with PA. On the other hand with the state revenue folks, the taxing of "non-residents" living in the state has a trigger point of 183 days in a calendar year. That one we can avoid because the school year is split into two calendar years and we can be out of state before we hit the full six month limit.

 

But maintaining the "non-resident" status gets tricky because, among other things, licensing vehicles in a state is de facto evidence that you are a resident.

 

We like to stay "legal" with the appropriate authorities, but this is another example where we could be claimed by two states and I'm not interested in risking confrontation with the wrong bureaucrat(s) and ending up with negative tax implications (not just the taxes but the cost of paying an accountant to figure it out and duke it out with competing revenue departments).

 

Right now I'm leaning toward leaving the rig in Oregon where we have a home base, and in PA staying at our daughter's home (NOT our favorite choice) and just getting a car there on some sort of short-term lease. That is looking to me to be the easiest way to stay under the radar.

Clarkie
Dick & Linda, hosting Abbie, our miniature Dachshund.
23.5' Lazy Daze MH
Newberg, Oregon

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You and your wife can be residents of different states. You can ask accountants or tax lawyers about your specific situation.

 

That is in addition to other considerations mentioned above.

 

 

Id like to thank everyone who replied.

 

I wont bore everyone with the detailed reasons why I thought I might be able to continue my Texas domicile, (the issue of intent: our RV and two storage rooms are in Texas, driving down to Texas to get dental work done from my long-time dentist, etc.,) but it seems clear that once my wife applies for coverage from an Illinois PPO that does it.

 

I want to thank Kirk for the detailed info and suggestion, (I had read his article on domicile several years ago, more than once,) Jim for helping me understand the issue of intent more clearly, and Biker for that very useful excerpt from Illinois law.

Cathy (Catharine) Summerfield Hana

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Aren't there exceptions? When I was in the military my official residence was in California although I was NEVER stationed there. Then when I was D.O.D. the same applied. I never even considered changing my residence when transferred many times either while in the military or DOD. And now I use MD. as my residence (dtrs. address) although we haven't lived there for over 5yrs. That's all coming to a stop pretty soon as we're building a home in S.C. and coming off the road. But I always wondered how anyone would know where you're domiciled if a full timer as we were. We would spend months in Maine in the summer, and the same either out west or south in winter. As far as healthcare goes, we both have a great PPO that has covered us all over the country without so much as a hint of a problem with our location.

Fulltiming since 2010

2000 Dutch Star

2009 Saturn Vue

Myrtle Beach, SC

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Aren't there exceptions? When I was in the military my official residence was in California although I was NEVER stationed there.

There definitely is a special exception for members of the armed forces. I believe that the exception also covers some types of government worker but I don't believe that there are exceptions for anyone else, although I'm not a legal expert. I have done a lot of reading and research on such issues over the years and have never found any exception which applies to fulltimers.

 

Even so, there are probably those who do violate the domicile related laws and yet never have any legal problems from doing so. As mentioned before there are two sets of laws to be concerned with, those of the state chosen as domicile in order to retain your legal status there and the laws of whatever state you happen to be physically located in, avoiding violation of their laws or attracting their attention. Some communities are very active in the enforcement of laws related to domicile issues, while others seem to prefer to just ignore the issue. But you need to understand that there is no set of exact rules about what determines your domicile since that is a term of the courts and is rarely ever found in the laws of any state. There is little doubt that many/most fulltimers do at least occasionally violate local laws related to being required to move your vehicle registration, driving privileges, or a host of other issues but nobody notices or sometimes they notice but do not care or choose not to enforce their laws. Insurance companies may use such issues to cancel or void a policy, if they discover a violation of their residency rules.

 

When you consider the number of people who live as RVing fulltimers, compared to the total population of the USA, we are only a tiny percentage of the citizenship and so our issues get little or no attention. Even on a state by state basis, RV populations are small as a share of the total population, while we are a very significant part of the economies of many local communities who often choose to ignore infractions of such laws because they benefit greatly by our presence and do not wish to risk offending the visitors for a few more tax dollars. I doubt that many RV folks actually intend to violate such laws but many do not realize how complicated the issue can be.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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There was some good discussion on the Wheeling It web site about ACA and also Oregon domicile rules were mentioned

 

So if you move to Oregon you have to live there 6 months before you can become a resident. Then you must have coverage from your previous state for health providers for an extended period of time before you are an Oregon resident and obtain coverage there?

 

It seems like that must be an unintended consequence of the ACA rule. I would like to see the wording in the ACA about the residence requirement.

 

I am a legal resident of WI and my health insurance (HMO) required me to end coverage in WI (home and computer based job in WI) when I took a second job which is seasonal in WY. Intent was to work winter season as well but did not get a position.

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If you move to a state and intend to stay there and start doing those things that residents do such as getting a job or place to live or DL, and do not intend to return to your previous state, you are usually a resident from the moment you arrive. I have not looked at Oregon. You might want to inquire at some Oregon state offices, or whatever other state you have an interest in, as to the residency situation.

 

Many states make laws in order to claim a person who does not want to be their resident (but whose actions make it look as if he or she actually is a resident.) So a state might want to claim you if you stay there past a certain number of months or days, while you say that you are a resident elsewhere.

 

 

 

There was some good discussion on the Wheeling It web site about ACA and also Oregon domicile rules were mentioned

 

So if you move to Oregon you have to live there 6 months before you can become a resident. Then you must have coverage from your previous state for health providers for an extended period of time before you are an Oregon resident and obtain coverage there?

 

It seems like that must be an unintended consequence of the ACA rule. I would like to see the wording in the ACA about the residence requirement.

 

I am a legal resident of WI and my health insurance (HMO) required me to end coverage in WI (home and computer based job in WI) when I took a second job which is seasonal in WY. Intent was to work winter season as well but did not get a position.

Cathy (Catharine) Summerfield Hana

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