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Really odd response


yzg

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This site has really broadened my horizons with what is out there...so I find this response really odd..

 

Once of the 5ers I am looking at is a Cameo by Carriage 5th wheel. It is a "top of a line unit" (his words) for full time living.

 

It is 37 foot with a 36 foot full wall slide that provides more room and storage.

 

So he states in his add that " 5TH WHEEL IS 7,700 KG. OR 14,500 LBS, GROSS"

 

So I ask is the this is actual or what it says in the brochures.

 

His response was "14,500 lbs. is the maximum of what the 5th wheel can weigh" which doesn't answer my question ...this guy is from Ontario...but is this some type of RV law ?

 

What is your take ?

 

 

 

 

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have you ever heard of a max weight for a 5er... ? I know some that are much heavier...

 

Yes, every 5'er has a max gross weight. It is the maximum it can weigh including all cargo. The weight is set by the manufacturer. Not all Gross weights are the same. The are set for each vehicle based on frame, axles, tires, brakes and probably some other things..

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What year is it? Our Carrilite is a 36max1 which was the next to top, except Royals, line of Carriage. Depending on how it's optioned, he could be that light.

Our GVWR is 17148 by the sticker with 6350 per axle. The rest is on the pin- 4448

Our real weight is over 18000, with 7000 per axle and 4500 on the pin. So we are over the "rated" numbers, but under our RV tire weight ratings, and I no longer care about the truck weight ratings. :D

Options with the full wall slide make a huge difference. With the dishwasher, washer/dryer, fireplace etc all located in the wall slide. It also depends on the year. Is it a 3 slide model, or 2 slide model. The 2 slide is lighter because the bedroom is configured differently. saving weight.

 

 

 

 

 

On Edit- I had the presidential as the top, Royals actually was the top line

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He doesn't state the year which seems to be the norm...most don't quote model numbers either...drives me nutz.

 

1 full wall slide.

 

Here is the add..

 

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-rv-motorhome/st-catharines/cameo-by-carriage-5th-wheel/1037001014

 

So he is telling me what the max the axles can handle...in theory...I suspect that it is heavier..

 

ian

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Guest Pensauncola

He doesn't state the year which seems to be the norm...most don't quote model numbers either...drives me nutz.

 

1 full wall slide.

 

Here is the add..

 

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-rv-motorhome/st-catharines/cameo-by-carriage-5th-wheel/1037001014

 

So he is telling me what the max the axles can handle...in theory...I suspect that it is heavier..

 

ian

 

The ad clearly says that it is a 2009 year model. Gross vehicle weigh rating (GVWR) is a required part of registering and titling any vehicle. It is a product of the axle ratings and the hitch rating and is set by the manufacturer. This trailer most likely comes with 7000 lb axles.

 

It's also obvious from the pictures that it is not a 37' with a 36' slide. Most likely it is a model which uses the number 37, making it either a 38' or 39'. Slideout is shorter by two or three feet.

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Carriage did funky measuring. Our rig model is 36MAX1. The inside wall to wall dimension is 36', the outside is 38 including ladder and the little bit of pin box sticking out. Slide out is 29' and change. That unit isn't option out so it may well be that light.

Carriage built a good unit. They have a double box frame 2- 2x6 tubes stacked, good insulation, and decent woodwork. I haven't found much wrong with ours after almost 2 years full-time in it, little stuff, but some is normal wear and tear. It looks like it's been cared for, pricing I guess is Canadian.

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Guest Pensauncola

Opps..missed that....I have gotten used to asking that question...

 

However, the point of this thread is being missed ..do you know how much your rig weighs or did you read it ion the drawer or whatever ?

 

It appears to me that you are missing the point. You asked "So I ask is the this is actual or what it says in the brochures". The answer is that the 14500 lb is the gross weight rating (GVWR) which is based on the axle and hitch capacities and is set by the manufacturer. I would guess that this trailer has two 7000 lb axles. This rating is required by law.

 

The actual weight of the trailer would depend on how it is loaded and can only be determined by having it weighed. Carriage may have weighed the unit as it came off of the assembly line and this weight may be posted somewhere in the trailer or in it's literature as "unloaded dry weight".

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YES !!!!!!! but I am not missing the point.

 

I asked him if this this number is the *real weight* or one he read somewhere ? I NEED to know if my truck can handle it. Wouldn't you before you bought it ?

 

He said, and I quote " 14,500 lbs. is the maximum of what the 5th wheel can weigh".

 

This tells me absolutely nothing... and I didn't know that 14.5K is the maximum a 5th wheel can weight and I don't think I have read anything that states that..

 

What I get is that he has no idea and I am not driving that far to find out...

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As I read his response he says "the" fifth wheel, which I and everyone else understand to mean "the" fifth wheel you are asking about. In other words, it is the Maximum Gross Vehicle Weight rating for the vehicle you asked about. He never says anything about 14,500 being the maximum weight for "all" fifth wheels.

 

Now, you are also interested in the "actual" weight of the vehicle which can only be determined by placing it on a scale. As you know, that is very important since it will tell you your cargo capacity. However, for that information to be meaningful you need to know how it is loaded when it is put on the scale. Does he have it loaded with all his stuff? Is there any water in any of the tanks? Are the propane bottles full?

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Actually the Gross Vehicle Weight (the maximum the vehicle can weigh when traveling) is a real and valuable number. The fiver alone with no cargo or fluids weighs somewhat less, that you'd get from a scale weight of an empty trailer and the difference is your allowable cargo weight.

 

If you load the fiver above the GVW then you are over-stressing the frame, hitch and axles which can lead to problems and are hauling more weight than the fiver's brakes are rated to stop which can increase your stopping distance a bit too much for safety.

 

If your truck is rated to tow a vehicle with the GVW of the fiver then you should be able to pull it BUT and a big but you need to insure the truck is loaded as the factory loaded it for the testing. So a 150 pound driver, 1/8 tank of fuel and nothing else and you meet the factory specs. If you add stuff to the truck like a wife or a few more than 150 pounds for the driver, more fuel a hitch or any cargo you need to reduce the truck's rating to account for that. What many do as a shortcut is to just use 80% of the factory truck tow rating for a ballpark number and only go the full calculation route if they are close to the maximum the truck is rated for.

 

Oh, don't forget that the tow rating is calculated for a single-wide horse trailer at 60 square feet of frontal area so you'll need to think about the impact of the larger fiver on your speed and power situation.

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Guest Pensauncola

YES !!!!!!! but I am not missing the point.

 

I asked him if this this number is the *real weight* or one he read somewhere ? I NEED to know if my truck can handle it. Wouldn't you before you bought it ?

 

He said, and I quote " 14,500 lbs. is the maximum of what the 5th wheel can weigh".

 

This tells me absolutely nothing... and I didn't know that 14.5K is the maximum a 5th wheel can weight and I don't think I have read anything that states that..

 

What I get is that he has no idea and I am not driving that far to find out...

 

There is no way that anyone on this forum can tell you where the seller got his information that he gave to you. However, I would suspect that he is quoting the data off of the manufacturer's plate on the street side of the trailer.

 

If you'll look at the first picture of the trailer, on the street side in the front and underneath the slideout, you can see a small metal plate right above the very small compartment door. That compartment door hides the front jack controls. The small metal plate identifies the manufacturer and the date of manufacture. It also includes the gvwr for the trailer, both in kg and lbs. It also describes the gross axle weight rating for each axle (front and rear). You can call the seller and ask him if this is where he got the gross weight rating which he gave you.

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It's probably the 36FWS, which according to the brochure (http://www.oconnorrv.com/brochures/carriage/2009_cameo_bro.pdf) is the only full-wall slide they made in 2009.

 

According to the brochure, the 36FWS has an exterior length of 36'11", an approximate dry weight of 13,250# and an approximate load capacity of 1,749#, making the GVWR around 14,999# (the brochure doesn't state the GVWR...a major failing, IMO). The footnote says that the listed weights include "all slide out rooms and all popular options ordered on most units." It goes on further to say that each rig is weighed when it comes off the line and that weight will be posted inside the vehicle.

 

So, first of all, I'd have the owner send you a picture of that weight sticker so you know what the *real* dry weight was when it rolled off the assembly line. Of course, if the owner has added anything after purchase (solar panels, extra batteries, etc.), then that sticker weight won't be correct because it will not include these after-purchase items. The weight sticker should also give the GVWR of the rig.

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My fifth wheel was a bighorn 3100RL. It was 37 feet long from pin to rear cap. The max weight for this trailer was 14,000 lbs as specified by a rating from the manufacturer and printed on a sticker in the fifth wheel.

 

I would have given that number to any prospective buyer. This number of 14,000 lbs is the maximum allowable legal weight that this trailer can weigh after it is completely loaded with water and personal belongings and groceries, etc, etc.

There are other numbers on the same sticker such as the weight of the trailer as manufactured without cargo. Then there is a ccc which is actual allowable weight of stuff you can put into the trailer to get it to the max weight of 14,000 lbs.

 

What numbers are you wanting?

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I think you need to call the guy back to clarify your concern. None of us can give you an accurate answer. Having him take a picture of the RV sticker with the weights would be a very good idea. All RVs have this sticker. It's required. What you add to the RV's weight is up to you, including water and propane, you and your passenger's weight and all your belongings.

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Al, you are correct.

 

What did I expect when I asked the question if the weight was actual or a manufacturer number ( like estimated gas mileage) ?

 

Since I am from the north, I expected the truth. Simple question asked, simple answer expected.

 

Possible answers included ..when I weighted it with these conditions, this is the number I got or I have no idea what the real weight is but this is what it says on the sticker, etc.. His answer was unacceptable and after that, how truthful would be the rest of his answers ?

 

When I was asked the same question when I sold my last rig, I gave the weight with the conditions that I weighted it under. Easy,

 

So when buddy showed up with his truck to pick our trailer up, he was confident that he didn't need a new truck to pull it.

 

That is what I expected..just the simple truth. I just saved myself a 3300 km run to buy a trailer that I am (or may not) be able to haul...regardless of his inability to do math :)

 

I have moved on....

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Since I am from the north, I expected the truth. Simple question asked, simple answer expected.

 

 

I'm a little confused by the entire scenario, but then again I was not a participant.

 

I think he gave you a straight forward answer. The answer was the GVWR of the trailer. Which is the maximum it can weigh. I'm not sure how he could of given any other answer.

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I'm a little confused by the entire scenario, but then again I was not a participant.

 

I think he gave you a straight forward answer. The answer was the GVWR of the trailer. Which is the maximum it can weigh. I'm not sure how he could of given any other answer.

But is it ?

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All the plate states is what it should be...but not is...

 

 

What has been done to the trailer during his ownership is only his to know.....no matter, I have moved on....besides, I don't want a trailer that weighs almost 17K pounds..

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For future consideration, and consideration of other readers, I always advise people to plan on the trailer GVWR when buying or considering the use of a particular truck. Unless the trailer has exceptional carrying capacity - which is rare - then most people should assume GVWR for planning purposes.

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