The only hybrid that can be towed 4 wheels down?

[stevekk]

I just read this.  The new Ford Maverick Hybrid Pickup can be towed all 4 down.  And that  NO other Hybrid Vehicle can be towed 4 down.   Is this true?  Thanks.

Plus the Maverick can be FWD or AWD. 

[palmeris]

Not true-We have a 2020 ford escape hybrid and it can be towed 4 down, it is AWD

Edited January 10 by palmeris

[Kirk W]

If you are thinking of 2024 models, none of the towing guides that I'm familiar with are out for 2024 yet.  I'm wondering where you read that? I found the following from Edmonds.

But if you're looking at the current fourth-generation model, only the hybrid and plug-in hybrid models are towable. Finally, the vast majority of states require most vehicles being flat-towed to be equipped with auxiliary brake systems that work in tandem with the motorhome's brakes. ~ Nov 30, 2023

Edited January 10 by Kirk W
repair a typo

[GeorgiaHybrid]

The Jeep Wrangler 4xe can be flat towed.

[stevekk]

Thanks.... for the info about more vehicles.  I saw the Ford Maverick on Facebook.  He had pictures of towing hookup and info he had towed it flat.

[Ray,IN]

I'm waiting until some engineer figures out how to engage regenerative braking while being flat-towed.

[stevekk]

I was thinking the same thing.  I have a Chevy Bolt EV and its has regenerative braking.  Would be neat if I could tow it and charge the EV battery at the same time. Also to be able to connect my MH electrical usage up the car EV battery.  I imagine all this will be reality sometime in the future.

[stevekk]

What my EV battery looks like.  66Kwh.  And to be able to hook it up to my Motorhome....WOW!  Hopefully they will find a way in the future??

Weights 960 pound.

Edited January 12 by stevekk

[Kirk W]

7 hours ago, stevekk said:

 I have a Chevy Bolt EV and its has regenerative braking.  Would be neat if I could tow it and charge the EV battery at the same time.

If you could somehow cause the brake of the Bolt to apply with your motorhome braking, like an auxiliary brake system, that would make use of some of that wasted energy. Dragging the regenerative braking all of the time would burn extra fuel. 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

To get regenerative braking from a hybrid, the drive system would need to be engaged. In most of the systems out there, this would be impossible to do without damaging components.

An example would be a typical Toyota hybrid with MG1, MG2 and a planetary gear set. Without an active computer determining the rotation of MG1 and MG2 and monitoring speed and acceleration or deceleration of the vehicle, things will go boom.

You need an active coolant pump for the hybrid system and battery bank as well as pumps for lubrication. All of those depend on an active management system. AKA, the car must be running.

[stevekk]

Thanks Kirk and GH,  I imagine the same thing would apply to my 100% EV.

 Do you Think sometime in the future and redesign of EVs/ hybrids would make this all at least possible? 

Can you imagine the possibilities?😃

Edited January 12 by stevekk

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Steve, your 100% EV has a fair chance to become redesigned to do what you want. Again, depending on design, you can just have electric motor power only driving the wheels without a transmission. That would be  an easy adaptation.

Put a gear system or transmission in the mix and that can change however.

The best way to get that to work would be similar to the DirecLink braking system that reads the cars acceleration (+/-) and applies the brakes progressively depending on the rate of change.

It would require a "towing mode" where the car would be partially powered and only able to engage the brakes.

[Kirk W]

9 hours ago, stevekk said:

Do you Think sometime in the future and redesign of EVs/ hybrids would make this all at least possible? 

The catch is in the size of market that a modification like that would be willing to pay extra for. A good example of the size issue for the towing world is the fact that Remco has discontinued the manufacture of all of their towing modification equipment due to low returns on investment. For that reason, I don't expect to see it happen unless it is for some other reason than the RV dingy towing market.

[bruce t]

Is this a case of over thinking the issue?

Problem - charging a toad. EV, Hybrid or whatever!

Solution - run a dedicated cable from tow vehicle to toad. From alternator, (smart alternator?), via dc2dc unit to toad battery.

But in reality how much charge would be put into a toad system while being towed? Is it worth the effort?

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Bruce, the battery banks for a typical hybrid run at 100v DC or more (most Toyota packs run at a nominal 201v DC). Given the 12 volts nominal on your tow vehicle, I doubt that a DC-to-DC charger would be worth the trouble to install. Even 50 amps at 12 volts would only provide about 2.5 amps of charging once you consider the losses in the system. These are massive batteries that require huge amounts of energy to charge. Stopping a 3,000-to-4,000-pound car provides plenty of regenerative power to do that.

[bruce t]

I guess the point I'm trying to make "Is it worth the effort?" 

Im aware of the amount of driving you need to do to charge a standard battery let alone an EV battery. Is it a problem that needs a solution?

If it was me I would be plugged in and fully charged before leaving.

[stevekk]

Thanks for the input.  I found this:

"Ford has reportedly patented a way to charge electric vehicles by flat towing them. The patent refers to how an EV can be charged while being towed behind another vehicle.

The patent application was filed in December 2020 and published in July 2021. You can read more on that patent here."

So it like a matter of time?  Maybe

 

 

 

 

 

[durangodon]

I think this would be the most expensive way to charge an EV battery, using regen to charge while towing it.  It would probably cut your motorhome mpg's in half.

[GeorgiaHybrid]

8 hours ago, durangodon said:

I think this would be the most expensive way to charge an EV battery, using regen to charge while towing it.  It would probably cut your motorhome mpg's in half.

It only generates power and charges the battery when braking.

[durangodon]

5 hours ago, GeorgiaHybrid said:

It only generates power and charges the battery when braking.

I drive an EV.  When you quit accelerating, the motor turns into a generator using the momentum of the car and produces electricity which is used to charge the battery.  The resistance of the generator in turn slows down the vehicle (as in braking).  Towing an EV would have exactly the same effect. 

The brakes are not involved.  In fact, I rarely apply the brakes on my car.

[Kirk W]

11 hours ago, durangodon said:

The resistance of the generator in turn slows down the vehicle (as in braking).  Towing an EV would have exactly the same effect. 

Exactly and that means that the resistance from the generator would still be acting as a brake, thus requiring more fuel for the motorhome to tow it. That is called regenerative braking and takes energy to make the electricity there, just as it does at an electricity generating station. The same drag that slows your EV would try to slow the motorhome that was towing it. Since no system is 100% efficient the cost in fuel would exceed the benefit of charging the car. 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

13 hours ago, durangodon said:

I drive an EV.  When you quit accelerating, the motor turns into a generator using the momentum of the car and produces electricity which is used to charge the battery.  The resistance of the generator in turn slows down the vehicle (as in braking).  Towing an EV would have exactly the same effect. 

The brakes are not involved.  In fact, I rarely apply the brakes on my car.

OK, I understand how hybrids and EV's work. I have moderated hybrid and EV sites and driven both types since 2007. If you are not accelerating in a postive number or maintaining just enough throttle to coast or on a slight downhill, you are braking. Most hybrids and EV's use regenerative braking only unless you are moving at 10mph or less or under emergency (hard) braking in which case the hydraulic brakes are engaged.

That is why I stated before that you have to keep some of the electronics active on the car in tow mode and use a system similar to DirecLink that will vary the regenerative braking force depending on the rate of deceleration which is calculated using the ABS system.

[durangodon]

1 hour ago, GeorgiaHybrid said:

OK, I understand how hybrids and EV's work. I have moderated hybrid and EV sites and driven both types since 2007. If you are not accelerating in a postive number or maintaining just enough throttle to coast or on a slight downhill, you are braking. Most hybrids and EV's use regenerative braking only unless you are moving at 10mph or less or under emergency (hard) braking in which case the hydraulic brakes are engaged.

That is why I stated before that you have to keep some of the electronics active on the car in tow mode and use a system similar to DirecLink that will vary the regenerative braking force depending on the rate of deceleration which is calculated using the ABS system.

So, you're saying to modify the EV's natural driving dynamics and disable regeneration unless the tow vehicle (motorhome) is braking.  Well, in that case, on a 3 hour drive down the interstate the EV would be charging for about one minute.  I don't see how that would be worth the effort.

I don't know about hybrids, but Teslas are the most popular EV's in the country, by far.  You can easily drive a Tesla and come to a complete stop without the hydraulic brakes being applied.  That's how I drive mine.  I do apply the brakes occasionally just so the rotors don't rust over, but they are certainly not applied automatically under 10 mph.

[Arnie Strauss]

Have been looking at flat towing for the past three years--two of which were for the 2022 and 23 Ford Escape Hybrid with no luck because of the lack of inventory and last year being told that if I ordered one in January--it should arrive by September (2023 -- yes that's when the 24's come out).   I did not want to buy a new car that was "one year old when I got it.    I've been RVing for more years than most of you have been alive!   (started with a tent in 1972 and now we have an Allegro Bus (40AP).   I have been researching ONLY Towable Hybrids and even called FMCA for their yearly list of dingy vehicles--not out until sometime in early 24 (I was told).   I found that the new Lincoln Corsair PHEV is able to be "dingy" towed all four down.   You can see this (on line) in the 2024 Corsair PHEV owner's manual.   Long story - short, I ordered one last week.   The only caveat is that only Roadmaster builds a base plate for this car but it can be adapted to the Blue Ox system.   Blue Ox told me they do not make a base plate and wouldn't make one for the Corsair.

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, Arnie Strauss said:

You can see this (on line) in the 2024 Corsair PHEV owner's manual.

2024 Corsair PHEV owner's manual

Towing Your Vehicle  (page 496)

Switching Neutral Tow On 1. Switch your vehicle on in accessory mode. 2. Press the menu button on the steering wheel to enter the information display main menu. 3. Select Settings. 4. Select Neutral Tow. 5. Follow the instructions on the information display. 6. Fully press the brake pedal. 7. Shift into neutral (N). 8. Switch the ignition off. Note: Switching neutral tow on requires battery power. Note: If the parking brake is applied, a message appears in the information display.

Note: If your vehicle has an ignition key, you cannot remove the key from the ignition when the transmission is in neutral (N) and your vehicle is off. Note: Start the engine and allow it to run for a few minutes at the beginning of each day, and every six hours or fewer. With the engine running and your foot on the brake, shift into drive (D) and then into reverse (R) before shifting back into neutral (N). Before continuing to tow, switch neutral tow on.

Let us know when you get us and give us a review. As to the baseplate and towbar, even though I have used Blue Ox for years, I would not hesitate to use one from Roadmaster as they also have an excellent rating and a long history of quality and support.