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Our truck problems this spring


Wrknrvr

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      I thought it would be best if I started a new thread to give a condensed version of what happened.

 

   Looking back at my pictures of the engine problem, gives a good timetable for what was happening. So about March 17 th I started the truck to let it warm up and check things out. It was on high idle while running about 15 minutes. Then it started to misfire. Never did this before.

    To keep this shorter than the actual time line, some time will be shorter than actual time.

     In about two days I was talking to several different experienced mechanics, parts suppliers and Cummins. The one thing that was confusing was that it would miss at random. But the computer in the truck dash was saying cylinder 3.   Then it said cylinder 1. Then it said engine controller?

     I purchased some electrical parts for the pass through connectors. Did some testing. Did some thinking? Hooked a noid light to cylinder number 3. It had ignition every time it should. I discovered a fault for fuel solenoid. But it had full dc power when the engine was running.          

   There is a hidden problem at the fuel solenoid.    I will get back to that later. But was a sign of the second main problem.

   While testing things and talking to people then sometimes those faults went inactive.

   On March 25th I somehow had to figure out why it was missing on different cylinders.  what Could that be.

 

   On March 26th I looked into the passenger side fuel tank.

 

 

     Blank,    Blank.

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Vern, I don't want to spoil the suspense, so I'll just say, we had a similar issue with our ISX (random mis-fires).  Many $$$$ later, we found the problem.  I'll wait until the end of your story before saying what ours turned out to be.

KW T-680, POPEMOBILE
Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN
Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row
Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer.
contact me at rickeieio@yahoo.com

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    So there is a black blob in our fuel tank.    Never seen that before.    So research said subject.  Pull filter off. Empty the contents into a clear jar. Water, black line and fuel on top.

    Visit tractor supply,     Buy treatment. Manufacturer says to put treatment in and run the engine for a certain amount of time. Then let it set for 8 hours before driving again.

    The truck will start and engine will run. The next day I drive the truck say 400’. And oh no. Turn it around and get back to the camp site. 

   Did some thinking, but did not swear.....  pulled first filter off and cut it apart. Plugged with black stuff.

   More research was done. Go buy a transfer pump. And filter. Put more treatment in the tanks.    Circulate the fuel in the tanks. I did plug three filters while circulating the fuel in both tanks. Pump each tank for probably 10 hours each at 10 gallons per minute.

 

   Let truck sit a day or two.    Thinking how could that blob affect the computer diagnostics.   Blob to several odd diagnostics, that keep changing. Then go inactive.???

     Now while it is sitting there things are getting worse, instead of better. But it did not show its ugly head  before some more testing.

   More popcorn is needed, Rick

 

more thinking, local shop says not to bring it to them. They will not work on it.

Edited by Wrknrvr
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This is going to be a real good story, Rickeieio. Better get extra butter on the popcorn. It'll probably end up being a cautionary tale for anyone brave (foolish?) enough to volunteer to remote troubleshoot.

I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 

2000 Kenworth T 2000 w/N-14 and 10 speed Gen1 Autoshift, deck built by Star Fabrication
2006 smart fourtwo cdi cabriolet
2007 32.5' Fleetwood Quantum


Please e-mail us here.

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    So while treating the fuel for algae, there is time to think. I am thinking about my fishing time on the Wind River i am going to miss. I was supposed to meet two friends from Florida there for a few days.

  Still no swearing. 

   So what could be happening while I am just waiting for the treatment to take effect.    More than I ever thought could happen.    There is a substance in diesel fuel that is called asphaltene.

  Never heard of that word before. Or it is on the backside of my mind.

    Now asphaltene reminds me of rust in a water pipe.

 

    More trouble than one could think of. The fuel treatment decided to remove asphaltenes from any spot that could leak air into the fuel system.

 

   Air in the supply line on a diesel fuel causes more headaches.

   Butter that popcorn Rick

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    Well after doing the treatment and changing the fuel filters, I start the truck.

    Sitting there is idles fine. Now what should I do. So I rev the engine just a little. Hey it does that fine. Thinking? It takes more fuel and revs up like it should.  

    What about packing to leave for Montana.

 

    Shut the truck off. Thinking about what just happened to the truck. Do some family things.

   Start the truck the next morning. Idles good and revs up with out missing. And not smoking at all.     I am feeling much better.

 

    So back to thinking about leaving and packing.

 

    So this situation is from my recollection of what happened back then.

 

   I will share some information that I have acquired from my personal experience, information from several friends that have truck repair experience and Cummins. I will detail these as they happen.

 

   Have a good day,    Vern 

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   Well get that popcorn heated up Rick..

 

    So I decided to turn the turn around on Saturday morning. Our son arrived, so I started the truck. It started up as normal. Let it build air, told the son what I was going to do. Just go forward about 200’ and turn the truck around. Just about where I was going to turn the truck to the left, and smoke started to roll out the exhaust.

 

    I thought hurry up before it shuts off.  So I did. Got the truck back to its parking spot. Now it is sitting down hill a tad bit.

 

   No what is going on.   After leaving the truck shut off for awhile, I started the truck. It will idle the way it should, but when given throttle it acts like it is spraying for gigantic mosquitoes. Bigger than I ever seen. It was very embarrassing to my wife. Really embarrassing so it was.

 

 Maybe time to walk away for a day.

 

    What could it be with this truck now. It was running fine. .......?

 

   Rick, make sure you have extra popcorn to pop.

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    After some thinking, and more thinking, I pulled a fuel filter off. Only 1/3 full of fuel? Filled that filter up again. Pulled the first filter off??? It’s 2/3rds empty. Filled it and put it back on.

    From the beginning to the end of this episode, I lost about 18 lbs.

 

    start looking for where there could be a leak. Tee connector where the fuel tanks comes together. No fuel?    That is frustrating.   Remove all fittings and put sealer on the connections and put back together. Start truck. Hard to tell if any better. 

 

Edited by Wrknrvr
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      Remove the check valve at the top of the ecm. Installed a new o’ring. After talking to numerous people, decided to check pump pressure. It is good. But still wants to have low fuel filters once it runs for say 5 plus minutes. Rev it up and itttt smokes really bad.

    Check the check valve at the ecm. It now holds fuel. Must have fixed a leak at the tee, or the o’ring was bad.

   More than one of my friends sorta think I lost it.  They got quite.     But I keep testing and looking at what could be wrong. Cummins tech said my engine has a odd prime line of the fuel pump. Ordered a new one. Installed it?  Hard to say it helps. 

  Few days pass, could it be fuel line fittings. Tried a few things. Bought new rubber fuel line. That shop sold me bad connectors. Wasted time.

 

    Look at my original fuel lines. I had replaced the compression rings on the old lines. The outer coating on the original fuel line was flaking off. Just small pieces. But any air could cause problems 

    Then a friend said to put a vacuum gauge on the suction side of the fuel pump.   Dumb, dumb, dumb. Not to do that in the beginning.

 

   Now I have a gauge to actually see if there is improvement.    That to me was like driving cross country, with your fuel gauge not working.

    Plugged filter should have high vacuum reading. That is if there is no air leaks in the suction side fuel lines.

  With no leaks there should be , say 2” water column. Plugged filter then gauge should go to to 15” or more water column.

   Now there is a reference point that should give indication if what I just did, helped or not.

 

  Lots of thinking to be done now. But I have a reference point to deal with.

    

 

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Now I know how people felt watching the old silent movie serials. I'm on the edge of my seat, waiting for the next episode.

I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 

2000 Kenworth T 2000 w/N-14 and 10 speed Gen1 Autoshift, deck built by Star Fabrication
2006 smart fourtwo cdi cabriolet
2007 32.5' Fleetwood Quantum


Please e-mail us here.

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The early much ballyhooed ISX Signature 600hp / 2050 torques engines would leak compression at a copper washer sealing the injectors such that they would turn 200gals of fuel on board black with asphaltenes through the return system.

 

Edited by noteven

"Are we there yet?" asked no motorcycle rider, ever. 

 

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     Well now I went back to the fuel line thoughts. I stop at a local repair shop and purchased what new, original size fuel that they had. I had enough to get from the check valve (which now was holding fuel) at the top of the ecm, to the first filter in front of the steer tire. And enough to get back to the fuel filter on the fuel pump housing.   With 16” left over.

   Bought new ferrels for the connections. The original nuts were longer than what was available locally. Put the new fuel lines on. Filled both filters. 

    Started the truck.  Ok watching the vacuum gauge, looking for fuel leaks.    Just really checking things out. Hey now it is running and idling good.    After a few minutes I rev it up.    Darn thing starts to roll smoke again. It’s not as much, but wife looks really disgusted.

 

    Shut the engine down. Pull first filter off in front of passenger tire. By darn it is full of fuel. Then fuel runs out over the filter.   That’s odd. How could that be.     That takes some more thinking.

   Tighten all fittings that I have taken apart.

  Second filter that is on the pump housing is low on fuel?    Think about that situation.

    And the vacuum gauge was sorta near where it should be. But that was at idle.

     I need a break from this thing. 

Edited by Wrknrvr
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   So after thinking about fuel running out of first filter, there has got to be a air leak from the fuel pump, or near there. As the second filter is higher than the first filter. I already put new seals between the fuel pump housing and fuel filter base that is on the side of the fuel pump.

     I already removed the compucheck fitting from the filter base. That is where I plumbed the vacuum gauge in.  Get my remote camera and look at the filter base that is on the side of the fuel pump. Look at where the filter seals to the base.    Not looking good there.    Just order a new base from Cummins.

 

  Get some fresh popcorn for tonight’s episode, Rick

Edited by Wrknrvr
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     Let’s go back to having 5 volts on the fuel solenoid when the key is turned off. Yes I have 5 volts dc on the fuel solenoid wire. How could that be.  That 5 vdc is sitting there just laughing at me. 

 

   It will cause a big problem, farther along my diagnostics.    But now I am trying to get the fuel situation under control.

   Now I will throw in another possible problem, to complicate the 5 vdc on the fuel solenoid situation.     If you remember I had posted a topic about the hood seal not sealing to the cab.    Water comes into the mix of things.

 

   Thinking about popcorn, so I am.

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Vern, just sit down and close your eyes. Now dream of popcorn made in a real old timey popcorn popper, using a little bacon grease and butter instead of veggie oil.  Sprinkle on just a little fine salt, not too much.  Everything is gonna be okay.

KW T-680, POPEMOBILE
Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN
Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row
Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer.
contact me at rickeieio@yahoo.com

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      So It looks like the filter base is slightly warped. And has a few scratches across the sealing surface. So I call Cummins and ordered one.

 

    So I want to visit that 5 volts on the fuel solenoid wire When the engine is turned off.

      I had watched a video on YouTube that explains why and how there can be 5 vdc on that wire going to the fuel solenoid, on a Cummins N14. There is a 10 amp ground fuse on the upper right corner on the ecm, as you look at the ecm. If that 10 amp fuse is blown, the ecm will ground threw the fuel solenoid. 

    Mine was blown. So I replaced it. Along with putting a separate ground directly to the ground side of the batteries. As was suggested on the video.

    But in that video it also stated that that fuse being blown could cause ecm problems.

 

    So I installed the new filter housing, filled the filter and installed it. Start the truck and it idles nice. Check vacuum and it is where I think it should be.

 

    So there was a question about the ecm? Is it ok?     But the truck will take throttle, without smoking. There has been some odd complaints on the computer readout, on the dash. So I asked several people, and most thought the ecm would relearn it’s proper operation. Just test drive it if you feel like it may run. Well now I do have tow insurance.

 

    I will cook bacon this am for my evening popcorn, Rick

Edited by Wrknrvr
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       The engine has started, idles good and revs up just like normal. It did it the second day. Ok.    Thinking of what needs done leave for Montana.  

    Third morning it starts. Idles for about 5 minutes. We are timing it. Then it started to miss?

   .?L?

    I have been talking to a ecm rebuilder and several shop mechanics. Do some more checking. Both fuel filters are somewhat full. No fuel leaks that can be found.

  Next day I started the truck. It will idle good for 2 minutes, then start missing.

    Onboard diagnostics now.    Now says no communications with engine. Or something to that effect. Call ecm rebuilder. Sent the ecm to be rebuilt.

 

    So we are going to Costco today. I will buy popcorn there.

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    While the ecm was being rebuilt, I cleaned everything I could to make sure the ecm will be grounded properly.

   Get the ecm back. Installed it. Engine starts, idles good and takes throttle like it should. Make sure I have my tow insurance card with me. And have a driver to come pick me up if needed. Drive two laps in the campground, then take a side road for the first test drive.

    So the truck runs good. Drove about 80 miles up and down hills even loaded the Jeep on the back of the truck. Everything works good.

   Start packing the fifthwheel for our travels back to Montana.

 

 

   Leave Sunday about 2 pm for Atlanta Ga.  truck is running great. Not one miss. Even on uphill grades.

    The wife is real good at what to do if it starts to not operate correctly, so we can change both filters quickly.

    So we are feeling good, talking about what we want to do this summer in Montana. Or what is left of the summer.

 

   You can finish your popcorn Rick.

 

 

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If anyone has an empty bowl, now's the time to get it filled again, bathroom breaks, walk the dog. This feels like a cliffhanger serial... Stay tuned for the dramatic finish.

I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 

2000 Kenworth T 2000 w/N-14 and 10 speed Gen1 Autoshift, deck built by Star Fabrication
2006 smart fourtwo cdi cabriolet
2007 32.5' Fleetwood Quantum


Please e-mail us here.

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I've met Vern.  I know better than to fall for "finish your popcorn".  Maybe finish this bowl and go pop another bushel.

KW T-680, POPEMOBILE
Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN
Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row
Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer.
contact me at rickeieio@yahoo.com

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