2001 Volvo D12, Eaton Autoshift won't turn over

[aknavy]

2001 Volvo 660, D12 Engine, 10 speed Eaton Autoshift. Had the truck plugged in and on battery charger this morning. Last time I started it after sitting for a month, the batteries were low and needed charging - they are at least three years old, and been run down a couple times. Last time, it started after a short charge, and I don't shut down during the driving day, so made it to our destination.

 

This morning, again, fresh off of being plugged into the battery maintainer, it started and ran. Drove it for a couple miles, and shut it off. When I started it again, it would not go into gear. It just blinked like the clutch wasn't pushed in. Tried drive, reverse, manual, and even low multiple times - just blinked at me.

 

Tried shutting the truck down and restarting, and now it won't start. I get the low chime that comes on when the batteries are low, and when turning the key, the gauges all go dead - like a low/dead battery. Put a charger on it, and no change this time. I'm thinking the batteries have finally gave up and don't have the amperage to turn the truck over - they are reading 12.9-13 VDC on the inverter display (didn't have multimeter with me).

 

I also thought that maybe I had a bad connection on the batteries after looking at this mess of corrosion after the winter, so I pulled it all apart and cleaned the big connections and replaced the small connections.

 

No messages in the instrument cluster display. Checked the wires at the starter and they appear good/connected, not loose. Anyways, I'm thinking I need to replace the batteries and go from there.

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Update....got a great price on batteries at the dealer up the road - $94 apiece. Replaced the batteries, and still won't turn over. See below for original description. When I turn the key on, I get the normal dash lights and relay clicks - 6 clicks. When that is all done, I have a "-" in the transmission readout, the battery light is on, and the hazard indicator is lit. Slow, steady chime that I've associated with low batteries - am I wrong on that?

 

Turn the key to start, all dash lights go out. Voltage reading for the batteries doesn't change - 12.6/12.7. Transmission shifter reads neutral.

 

To me, this seems like a connection issue or bad starter. Am I wrong on this?

 

Is there a possibility that it's the transmission, as it's a strange coincidence that it wouldn't go into gear before the no start issue?

 

Is it safe for the truck to jump the starter to rule it out?

 

[HERO Maker]

What does your clutch feel like?

What level is in the reservoir?

Edited May 13, 2023 by HERO Maker

[aknavy]

Clutch feels normal, have not checked fluid.  Will do so tomorrow.

[rickeieio]

Two things come to mind.  A poor ground, and a bad x-y shifter.  Grounds are a pain to locate, but cheap to fix.  Toasted x-y not so cheap.

[NeverEasy]

Easy to see if the dash ground is the problem.  Had this happen to a friends '98 Volvo.  

Get a piece of 12 or 14 AWG wire.  Connect one end to the battery negative.  Connect the other end to the negative on the CB terminal post.  Try to start again.

Chet

[Darryl&Rita]

That "-" is the clue. Your transmission isn't seeing Neutral, thus the ECM won't allow a crank. Track down the missing neutral input.

[aknavy]

3 hours ago, NeverEasy said:

Easy to see if the dash ground is the problem.  Had this happen to a friends '98 Volvo.  

Get a piece of 12 or 14 AWG wire.  Connect one end to the battery negative.  Connect the other end to the negative on the CB terminal post.  Try to start again.

Chet

Nice, will give that a shot today.

[aknavy]

50 minutes ago, Darryl&Rita said:

That "-" is the clue. Your transmission isn't seeing Neutral, thus the ECM won't allow a crank. Track down the missing neutral input.

This is what another person on the Volvo FB group said.  The shifter (push button) shows neutral, but the dash indicator does not.  So I'm guessing there's a wire from transmission to ECU that's damaged somewhere.

[lappir]

I had a similar problem with my 2001 many years ago and found the connection at the starter to be the problem at that time. 

More recently I have had multiple issues again, but I'm pretty sure it's the wiring harness to the Transmission. Thought I had a place to fix, but they instead replaced my batteries and said it was fixed. Not the case, because I needed to use it a week ago Friday and it wouldn't start again. (Didn't find neutral and flashed a "Check Transmission next stop" message.)

Made the trip after a bit and actually got there near my planned time. The 2001 will have a new home one of these days. Have a 2000 to replace it once all the things from the 2001 get moved over. The big box is off the 2000 and I'm waiting to see a photo of the smaller drom placed on the frame. 

Sorry for the hijack at the end there. PM me if you want some additional info. 

 

Rod

[aknavy]

I think this might be the issue.  Before the no start, the truck was rolling backwards really slow - trying to get it out of driving lane of the parking lot while the gear display was flashing at me.  The shift control show neutral, but the dash shows a "-". 

Locked In Gear

If the truck is shut down in gear, the AutoShift may become locked in gear.
The transmission will attempt to get to Neutral during the next power up if the
shifter is in Neutral. If Neutral is achieved, a solid “N” appears on the Gear Display.
If Neutral cannot be achieved, a “DASH” will appear on the display and
the engine will not start. If a dash appears during power up and the lever is in
Neutral try the following:
1. Select Neutral, “N.” Turn the key OFF and let the transmission power
down for a least 2 minutes.
2. Depress the brake pedal.
3. Release the parking brake.
4. Depress the clutch, but do not push in all the way to the floor or you
will make contact with the clutch brake.
5. Select Neutral.
6. Turn the key to the ON position.
7. AutoShift will attempt to shift into Neutral once you turn the key ON,
but you may have to slightly release the brake pedal to help let the
torque off the driveline.
8. Once it reaches Neutral a solid “N” will appear on the Gear Display
and the truck will start. If a dash still appears after this procedure,
get the vehicle to a service center.

[aknavy]

Well, my dreams of an inexpensive fix were just that....dreams.  The clutch had a broken spring in it, so I got a new clutch, clutch brake, input shaft, associated parts, and rear main seal.  Total bill came to $3500.  In hindsight, had I bought the parts and provided them for the mechanic, I could have saved about $800, as he dinged me on the clutch price vs what the dealer quoted.  All in all, not a bad repair bill, I suppose.  First time I was stuck with the truck in two years of towing with it.

 

The new clutch is gonna require some getting used to.  It shifts like a car - just barely have to push the clutch to disengage, and only have to push about 4-6 inches to get into the clutch brake.  Before, I had to press to the firewall to get clutch brake.  It's a huge difference.  While I'm not really happy with the bill, it's fairly reasonable and I can tell the difference...and it should outlast me.  Back on the road tomorrow, only a week delayed.

[rickeieio]

That's several hundred cheaper than when I had a clutch put in our 770 at the ECR a few years ago.  And it sounds like you got an EZ pedal clutch too.  You'll really like that.

[aknavy]

10 hours ago, rickeieio said:

That's several hundred cheaper than when I had a clutch put in our 770 at the ECR a few years ago.  And it sounds like you got an EZ pedal clutch too.  You'll really like that.

Yeah, he put an EZ pedal in.  Huge difference in the clutch.

[lappir]

Depending on the mechanic, but most (that I know) figure in their labor costs with any money made on parts sold at "Retail". If you bring in your parts, you will pay a higher labor cost per hour. That could be real bad if the parts you brought were not exactly right and the install was almost finished when something didn't look quite right..........

Lots of people buy tires at "The cheap place" and then have to bring them to a local "Tire Shop" to have them properly mounted and balanced. The shop will happily do it, but at a higher price than if the person had bought the tires at the "Shop". The customer usually winds up in the long run having to  more  for the "Discount" (Not "Discount tire" which I'm sure is trademarked)  tires than if they just paid the reasonable price at the tire shop in the first place. 

If I bring the parts I am happy to pay the installer a higher rate for their expertise. 

[aknavy]

On 5/21/2023 at 11:00 AM, lappir said:

Depending on the mechanic, but most (that I know) figure in their labor costs with any money made on parts sold at "Retail". If you bring in your parts, you will pay a higher labor cost per hour. That could be real bad if the parts you brought were not exactly right and the install was almost finished when something didn't look quite right..........

Lots of people buy tires at "The cheap place" and then have to bring them to a local "Tire Shop" to have them properly mounted and balanced. The shop will happily do it, but at a higher price than if the person had bought the tires at the "Shop". The customer usually winds up in the long run having to  more  for the "Discount" (Not "Discount tire" which I'm sure is trademarked)  tires than if they just paid the reasonable price at the tire shop in the first place. 

If I bring the parts I am happy to pay the installer a higher rate for their expertise. 

Yeah, I checked the price for the repair at the dealer and the private shop.  The dealer would have sold me the parts cheaper, but the labor was more expensive.  And, as you said, bringing your own parts runs the risk of missing something and delaying the repair.  I crunched the numbers and it came out to about the same.  Only difference was that the dealer was busy and had only average reviews.  The private shop got it in and repaired in a timely manner, and I didn't have to screw with it.  Parts all came from the dealer.   Sometimes convenience is worth it.

There was another truck in there for repair when I picked mine up, and the mechanic had given the owner a list of parts to pick up from the dealer, so it seemed like he was ok with it.  Next time - I hope there isn't a next time - I'll probably do the same.  The parts prices for the IShift transmission were more expensive than my full repair bill, so I guess there's a positive for having to push the clutch.

[JGWALES]

I would not have guessed that it was broken spring in clutch. I have a 2000 volvo same trans. My guess would have been in computer

 

[aknavy]

On 6/23/2023 at 2:51 PM, JGWALES said:

I would not have guessed that it was broken spring in clutch. I have a 2000 volvo same trans. My guess would have been in computer

 

Yeah, once I got it out of gear, it started but still wouldn't go into gear.  Just sat there and gave me the "N".  I tested it, and left drive selected when I turned it off.  When the RPM's dropped as it was shutting down, the transmission dropped into gear - which is what got me stuck in gear originally, I just didn't catch it.