Winch Control

[SuiteSuccess]

I have a Warn M8000 winch on my truck (see pics) with cabled controller. It is intermittently tripping the relay but won’t start the winch rolling in. Warn wants $183 for new controller.  Two questions: 1.  Any help troubleshooting before I start tearing into conroller &/or control box?  2.  Would a cheaper controller work rather than the Warn if controller needs replacing?

[Darryl&Rita]

What breaker? What rating/size?

[NeverEasy]

Carl, this might be a good place to start.  There is a part 1 (check the winch) and part 2 (check the controller).

Chet

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by NeverEasy

[GeorgiaHybrid]

And part 3, check the solenoid.

[NeverEasy]

Carl,

https://nc4x4.com/forum/threads/warn-winch-wiring-diagrams.108597/

 

I have been searching for a wiring diagram.  The link above is the best I can find so far.  Those diagrams show several different configurations.  By your picture, yours is a 5-wire remote.  Scrolling down, I found a 5-wire system but there is also a 5-wire large frame drawing.  

And to confuse things more, below the 5-wire remote are some pictures of the remote controller switch,  The number of wires does not make much sense to me and there are 4 pictures that have a label of "front side" and "back side" which means nothing to me either.  

To answer your question about using an "off-the-shelf" remote, I doubt they will work as most are 3-wire controllers.

I would start by checking the solenoids as per the YouTube explanation.  That test is without a load.  Your statement that the remote controller intermittently clicks the relay sounds more like a relay problem to me.

A big warning here.  The YouTube video tests without a load.  The 8000 pulls 435 amps at full load.  Just because you get continuity across the polls at the very tiny current from the meter does not mean it will work at load rate currents.  If the relay contacts have become pitted, the relay will click as it closes but it may be unable to pass enough voltage to the winch to make it turn. Math example:  pitted contacts have created a .5 (1/2 ohm) ohms resistance across the polls.  Your winch has nothing attached so it pulls only 20 amps.  Voltage drop across the relay equals .5 x 20 or 10 volts.  You only have a 12V system, so the winch sees 2.6 volts.  The winch will not work.  

To check for such a problem, you need to check the voltage across each actuated relay UNDER LOAD.  Not much load but the winch needs to be connected to the relays.   You can probably tell which relay is actuated by sound or putting your finger on the relay and set the controller to in or out and mark the relays (should be two for each direction) as "in" or "out".  Using that very nice meter I gave you, energize a relay and measure the voltage across those two big contacts on each relay.  The voltage drop should be minimal. Maybe about .1 volts.  If you see a big voltage drop, that relay has a problem. 

Another warning!  If you do have a high resistance relay, high loads of current will cause a lot of heat.   

The above will also check the remote controller if the relays do energize.  

If you want to check the remote controller, disconnect the 12V from the system.  Remove the cover of the Remote.  Expose the backside of the remotes connector.  Hopefully, the wire color remains true from remote to the remote connection.  Check continuity from one to the other.   Now, on the remote controller, figure out which wires are connected to which other wires when the switch is placed in "in" or "out".  As a hint, all switches i have played with works such that if he switch lever is pointed to one side of the switch, the center contacts are connected to the contacts on the other side from where the switch lever is pointed.

 

 

 

[SuiteSuccess]

Thanks Chet and everyone else.  Will do as you suggest.  My research seems to point to the fact the solenoids wear out pretty quickly.  Some sites say replacing every 3-5 years.  Mine are 12 years old so suspect that is the issue.  Also the intermittent stoppage under load would point to it also.  Dang, hate to admit it but the guy from Georgia May be right.  😜. More to follow.

[NeverEasy]

I believe there are replacement parts for the solenoids.  I will have to look into that and find out if they will handle the 435 amps load of the M8000.  I doubt you would see much need for the full load capability unless you were stuck in the mud.  

 

 

[SuiteSuccess]

9 hours ago, NeverEasy said:

I believe there are replacement parts for the solenoids.  I will have to look into that and find out if they will handle the 435 amps load of the M8000.  I doubt you would see much need for the full load capability unless you were stuck in the mud.  

 

 

I can get the solenoids for $33 a piece from Warn for my winch.  Chinese even cheaper but not good reviews.  Probably replace all four if one found bad.  Chet between you and David you may make a 12v electrician out of me yet.  Not bad at 70. ☺️

https://www.warn.com/warn-industries-72631-winch-solenoid  
 

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by SuiteSuccess

[NeverEasy]

Carl,

I would not replace the solenoids with the standard solenoids.  I would switch to a winch contactor solenoid relay.  Albright seems to have the best reviews.  Available on Amazon for $75.  Rated at 500 amps.  Yours only pulls 435 at max load.  In the "Technical Details" it shows 800 amps but that load max have a maximum time to run at that amperage.  Dimensions are: 3.24 x 3.84 x 2.61 inches if you need to make sure it will fit.

Amazon.com: 500 Amp Winch Contactor Solenoid Relay for 6000 to 18,000 lb Winches Fits Warn (12V) : Automotive

Simple wiring setup.  Certain you can use your current remote.  If you go this route, it would give you the option of adding a wireless remote controller for about $20.  I have wireless remotes on my Volvo winch for loading the Smart, 5th wheel slides and front legs.  Qook Wireless Winch Remote Control Kit for Truck Jeep ATV SUV 12V Switch Handset (amazon.com)

 

Cheers!  Chet

 

[SuiteSuccess]

44 minutes ago, NeverEasy said:

Carl,

I would not replace the solenoids with the standard solenoids.  I would switch to a winch contactor solenoid relay.  Albright seems to have the best reviews.  Available on Amazon for $75.  Rated at 500 amps.  Yours only pulls 435 at max load.  In the "Technical Details" it shows 800 amps but that load max have a maximum time to run at that amperage.  Dimensions are: 3.24 x 3.84 x 2.61 inches if you need to make sure it will fit.

Amazon.com: 500 Amp Winch Contactor Solenoid Relay for 6000 to 18,000 lb Winches Fits Warn (12V) : Automotive

Simple wiring setup.  Certain you can use your current remote.  If you go this route, it would give you the option of adding a wireless remote controller for about $20.  I have wireless remotes on my Volvo winch for loading the Smart, 5th wheel slides and front legs.  Qook Wireless Winch Remote Control Kit for Truck Jeep ATV SUV 12V Switch Handset (amazon.com)

 

Cheers!  Chet

 

So I’d need just one? Or four?

[NeverEasy]

Just one.

There are videos on YouTube of some who have replaced the old type solenoids.  Search for "albright solenoid for warn winch"

 

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by NeverEasy

[SuiteSuccess]

Chet does this make sense with my five wire controller and the Albright?  Also I assume the red wire from A to the circle with 3 dots is direct to battery positive?

Edited April 14, 2023 by SuiteSuccess

[NeverEasy]

Carl,

Just got home from working on a rental property all day.   The only thing the winch contactor needs to work is a ground on the center pin of its three push-on connectors.  12VDC then will be applied to either of the two other push-on connectors to make it go in or out.

Obviously, the remote connector in this drawing is a 7-pin.  I don't know if the wire colors at that end are the same as your 5-pin remote cable.   I will have to rely on you to meter it out and make sure the following  is true BEFORE you connect the three small wires to the winch contactor.

1.  The black wire (that would push onto the contactor) is ground.

2. The yellow wire gets 12VDC when you put the remote to OUT.

3. The blue wire gets 12VDC when you put the remote to IN.

I have looked at other drawings of the setup.  Not that this is an issue, but those drawings shows the F1 and F2 leads swapped IAW your drawing.  Not to worry, if the winch goes in the opposite direction from the direction you chose on the remote, just swap the two little outside wires on the contactor solenoid.

On your drawing, it shows the ground wire to the remote attached to the battery negative post.  It would be just as good to connect it to the ground lug on the winch.

The "circle with the red dots" on your drawing is either the positive post of the battery or an isolator switch.  An isolator switch is a good idea on powerful winches.  On the old solenoids, they were prone to weld the internal solenoid contacts together due to arcing at very high amps.  If that happens, you lose control of the winch.  It will keep going in the direction is was traveling when the arc welding occurs. You can't stop it very quickly and it could cause some major damage.  Look at the drawing on the Amazon ad showing the contactor.  Note the isolator switch between the battery post and the 12VDC input post on the contactor.  Also know that an isolator will need to handle 500 amps.  Here is one on Amazon: 

Amazon.com: Witproton Battery Disconnect Switch 12V-48V Battery Power Cut Master Switch for Car, Vehicle, RV and Boat (on-Off high Current) : Automotive

I kind of like a drawing from YouTube.  However, neither has your 5-pin remote cable.  To operate the winch, the remote only requires a 12 VDC input, the wires going out to the IN and OUT terminals and a switch to direct the 12VDC back to the contactor on either the IN or OUT terminals.  All the other signals are appear to be there to light the LED on your Remote Controller.  Here is the drawing I hacked up to add the isolator and get rid of some Print Screen junk. It only has four wires (one ground is missing.

 

Chet

[Vegas Teacher]

How is the Winch fix / repair going? Did you get it up and running? 

Rental properties.... I own a rental property, I used to do all of the work and deal with renters. I switched to a property management company about 5 years ago. It got rid of the headaches, plus I got lazy.

Best of luck!!!!

Cory O

[SuiteSuccess]

2 hours ago, Vegas Teacher said:

How is the Winch fix / repair going? Did you get it up and running? 

Rental properties.... I own a rental property, I used to do all of the work and deal with renters. I switched to a property management company about 5 years ago. It got rid of the headaches, plus I got lazy.

Best of luck!!!!

Cory O

Parts coming this week. With the help of my friends above, especially Chet, was able to test my solenoids and found two were bad. Apparently winch solenoids only last 3-5 years in use. Mine are 12. At Chet’s suggestion I’m installing an Albright winch contactor. He has link above. I already have a 12 volt isolater switch but am upgrading.  Finding the correct wiring diagram for the Albright was a chore but think I’ve got it. Went over to truck yesterday and checked for continuity and relabeled my A wire, F1, & F2 to winch. Your thread on “the forum” is timely. There is a wealth of knowledge and knowledgeable people who are willing to help. For new folks, read each thread and you will soon learn who they are. I have. 

[Vegas Teacher]

46 minutes ago, SuiteSuccess said:

Parts coming this week. With the help of my friends above, especially Chet, was able to test my solenoids and found two were bad. Apparently winch solenoids only last 3-5 years in use. Mine are 12. At Chet’s suggestion I’m installing an Albright winch contactor. He has link above. I already have a 12 volt isolater switch but am upgrading.  Finding the correct wiring diagram for the Albright was a chore but think I’ve got it. Went over to truck yesterday and checked for continuity and relabeled my A wire, F1, & F2 to winch. Your thread on “the forum” is timely. There is a wealth of knowledge and knowledgeable people who are willing to help. For new folks, read each thread and you will soon learn who they are. I have. 

Good to hear and best of luck!

[SuiteSuccess]

Ok closing out the thread.  Did a test hookup with the Albright winch contactor yesterday and it works like a dream spooling in and out.  Will try hooking up to Smart next week to see performance under load.  Only issue is finding a way to fit the contactor  into the cover my solenoids occupied.  Think I’m going to glue up a box with some HDPE then fit the Warn plastic cover over that.  A note for anyone doing this repair.  Even though my plug is round 5 pin like the top in the pic, I wired using the bottom diagram.  You can see on the pics of the solenoids, the brown wire is ground going to all four and the green and white go to two solenoids.

The spade connections are left to right green, brown, white.

 

[rickeieio]

I don't see any blood......

[SuiteSuccess]

1 minute ago, rickeieio said:

I don't see any blood......

I’m not done yet.  It’s coming!😜

[NeverEasy]

Carl, This is how simple it is to add a Wireless Remote Controller to your setup.  The receiver could be mounted in your solenoid cover but I would not.  You only need 4 wires.  Use a standard set of 4-pin flat trailer wire connectors. Attach the mostly female wires end to the contactor (always use white for ground on both ends).  Splice the wires on the mostly male end to the wireless receiver wires.  Then when not in use, unplug the receiver and store it.  I do recommend disconnecting it when not in use.  The receivers are very common and someone near you night gain control of your winch.   You can still use your cabled remote. 

The receivers are all over Amazon.  I currently have 4 of them installed on various systems and oddly enough, none interfere with the others.  

https://www.amazon.com/Wsays-Wireless-Control-Compatible-Recovery/dp/B09VG8XHF9/ref=sr_1_16?crid=3PBWXHMZKYI1Y&keywords=wireless+winch+remote&qid=1682292237&sprefix=wireless+winch+%2Caps%2C105&sr=8-16

Ignore that "Public" wire on the drawing.  It just means it should already be installed by the customer.

Argh!  I just looked at Amazon for those 4-pin trailer connectors.  All the ones I have used in the past have the odd pin (covered or not covered) as white.  I see that some of them are green which has always been right turn in the past.  

Edited April 24, 2023 by NeverEasy
Better info.

[SuiteSuccess]

11 hours ago, NeverEasy said:

Carl, This is how simple it is to add a Wireless Remote Controller to your setup.  The receiver could be mounted in your solenoid cover but I would not.  You only need 4 wires.  Use a standard set of 4-pin flat trailer wire connectors. Attach the mostly female wires end to the contactor (always use white for ground on both ends).  Splice the wires on the mostly male end to the wireless receiver wires.  Then when not in use, unplug the receiver and store it.  I do recommend disconnecting it when not in use.  The receivers are very common and someone near you night gain control of your winch.   You can still use your cabled remote. 

The receivers are all over Amazon.  I currently have 4 of them installed on various systems and oddly enough, none interfere with the others.  

https://www.amazon.com/Wsays-Wireless-Control-Compatible-Recovery/dp/B09VG8XHF9/ref=sr_1_16?crid=3PBWXHMZKYI1Y&keywords=wireless+winch+remote&qid=1682292237&sprefix=wireless+winch+%2Caps%2C105&sr=8-16

Ignore that "Public" wire on the drawing.  It just means it should already be installed by the customer.

Argh!  I just looked at Amazon for those 4-pin trailer connectors.  All the ones I have used in the past have the odd pin (covered or not covered) as white.  I see that some of them are green which has always been right turn in the past.  

Thanks Chet.