DuneElliot Posted March 27, 2017 Report Share Posted March 27, 2017 I have recently installed my new batteries and inverter, and all that goes with it except for the solar which will be coming in the next 4-6 weeks. Since all I am really needing the inverter for is to power the outlets I was just planning to plug my RV plug into the inverter when off-grid rather than rewiring everything. However...I know that the converter needs to be off if I plan to do this, BUT it is on the same breaker as the outlets...not helpful. So how easy is it to add a new breaker and just hook the outlet wiring to that breaker? I have two more spots for breakers in the panel, and if it's fairly simple where do I buy a new breaker, and what size for outlets (used for TV, blu-ray, computer and occasionally a microwave), and does the panel also need a fuse? 2007 Keystone Springdale 245 FWRLL-S (modified) 2000 F-250 7.3L SRW Cody and Kye, border collie extraordinaires Latest departure date: 10/1/2017 Find us at www.nomadicpawprints.wordpress.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yarome Posted March 27, 2017 Report Share Posted March 27, 2017 Unless someone has been messing with your wiring, shutting off the breaker to your converter doesn't have anything to do with your outlet circuit. Or I should say... it shouldn't. If someone wired a single circuit to power both the converter and outlets then you really DO need to seperate them! If it's as it should be then there is no problem doing exactly as you propose. Run your inverter to your outdoor plug and you'll have whole house power. Most any home improvement store should have a breaker for you. It's probably easiest to just pop one out, disconnect the single wire and take it with you to ensure the proper type and size to fit your box. It's probably helpful to watch a youtube on replacing a breaker. It's extremely easy, but explaining it in detail is more complicated than just watching it done. You're prettty handy so once you see it once you'll be like.. "wha.. that's IT!??". Installing a new circuit is extremely simple. It's running the wires through the house that can be a challenge sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuneElliot Posted March 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2017 When I was isolating why I was tripping a GFCI outlet a few years ago (misplaced screw in the wall) I made sure to write down all the circuits on the panel...and the converter and outlets are both definitely hooked into the same breaker. I can hear the converter fan come on when I flip the breaker and I have power to the outlets, and if I don't flip it on I have no power at the outlets, or I should say, only power to the GFCI outlets which is on a separate breaker. Would it make more sense to add a new breaker or is it okay to move the wiring for my outlets to the same breaker as the GFCI breaker? Is this safe since GFCI outlets are only in the bathroom, or would I be creating more problems for myself than just adding a new breaker? 2007 Keystone Springdale 245 FWRLL-S (modified) 2000 F-250 7.3L SRW Cody and Kye, border collie extraordinaires Latest departure date: 10/1/2017 Find us at www.nomadicpawprints.wordpress.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Heiser Posted March 27, 2017 Report Share Posted March 27, 2017 You want to move the outlets (or the converter) to a new breaker if you have the room in the panel. Don't combine them with the GFCI outlets. For me, determining which to move to the new circuit (converter or outlets), would be dependent on how the circuit is currently wired because it will entail pulling new wire somewhere. Most likely the converter is close to the power panel (but without seeing it, I can't say for sure). If this is the case, it should be easy to run new wire to the converter and remove it from the outlet circuit. 2009 Volvo 670 with dinette/workstation sleeper - Walter 2017 DRV Mobile Suite 40KSSB4 with factory mods, dealer mods and personal mods - now in the RV graveyard 2022 DRV Full House MX450 with customized floor plan 2018 Polaris RZR Turbo S (fits in the garage) 2016 Smart Car (fits in the garage or gets flat towed behind the DRV when the RZR is in the garage) My First Solar Install Thread My Second Solar Install Thread & Photos and Documents Related to the build My MX450's solar, battery and inverter system - my biggest system yet! chadheiser.com West Coast HDT Rally Website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yarome Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Agree with Chad. Any 120v loads on your converter circuit has no business being there. Someone got lazy at the factory or the previous owner (if applicable) did a SNAFU on you. You want a dedicated circuit for your converter, standard outlets (preferrably multiple standard power and high load circuits seperated... CGFI string, heavy load circuits (ie., Microwave, airconditioner, etc.) Only one GFCI is required within, potentially, a string of outlets (which is the most common). It's likely that 120v outlets near your kitchen and/or water heater may also be on the same string as your washroom CGFI outlet. That's purely an assumption. They "may" be isolated to a single outlet but that's not very common. If wiring 120v outlets into your converter circuit has actually happened (and I believe you)... that, potentially, makes all of your circuits "suspect" in my book. If you don't have a multimeter most improvement centers sell a cheap (but effective) 3 prong outlet checker. Probably a couple bucks at most and perfectly suited to your purposes to track 120v and CGFI outlets to their currently established circuits. It will also detect any miswiring of your hot, neutral and grounds. Systemmatically flipping breakers and checking all outlets would give you a better picture of what your actually dealing with. The good news? Manipulating existing wired circuits and breakers is both cheap and fairly simple providing there is suffient available circuit space in you existing power distribution panel. Sounds like you should be fine. The PITA is trying to figure out what the factory/previous owner did to mess up your "game" and potentially rewiring a circuit or two. I know you to be a hands-on hardworker and always willing to learn new things. That would be the biggest investment... your time. Actual dollars out of pocket probably wouldn't amount to more than $20-$50. It does need to be corrected though before considering applying your inverter. Hopefully OldJohn will chime in. He can walk you backward and forward on your CGFI and 120v system and Chad knows his combined systems like nobody's business. We'll get you rollin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Heiser Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Yarome said: and Chad knows his combined systems like nobody's business. We'll get you rollin. Thank you very much. I appreciate that, especially coming from someone who I know knows RV systems. 2009 Volvo 670 with dinette/workstation sleeper - Walter 2017 DRV Mobile Suite 40KSSB4 with factory mods, dealer mods and personal mods - now in the RV graveyard 2022 DRV Full House MX450 with customized floor plan 2018 Polaris RZR Turbo S (fits in the garage) 2016 Smart Car (fits in the garage or gets flat towed behind the DRV when the RZR is in the garage) My First Solar Install Thread My Second Solar Install Thread & Photos and Documents Related to the build My MX450's solar, battery and inverter system - my biggest system yet! chadheiser.com West Coast HDT Rally Website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenp Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Agree with others.... install a new breaker and dedicate it to the converter. Easy to turn it OFF when running the inverter. Just be sure it isn't already on a dedicated circuit. As for the GFI circuits.... Most likely ALL of your general purpose outlets (kitchen, bathroom, wall outlets, outside outlets, etc.) ARE on a GFI circuit. The way these circuits work is the first outlet in the "string" of outlets is a GFI outlet that protects the entire string of outlets. Any issue on any outlet will trip the GFI. That is why you read many posts here about someone loosing all 120VAC in the rig - usually a tripped GFI someplace. My rig (and the previous two) had two GFI circuits - one for the kitchen & basement outlets and the other for the bathroom and all other outlets including the outside outlet. (I might have the mix wrong but you get the idea). Lenp USN Retired 2012 F150 4x4 2018 Lincoln MKX 2019 HD Ultra Limited 2024 HD Triglide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldjohnt Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Dune, good questions, I agree with most of the above but maybe with all due respect disagree slightly with some. 1) Most if not all RV's I've encountered have the Converter/Charger on its own dedicated 120 VAC 15 or 20 amp Branch Circuit and NOT on a convenience outlet circuit. 2) THEREFORE I would install a new dedicated 15 or 20 amp branch circuit with a single pole circuit breaker wired up to the Converter/Charger alone. If it requires a 15 amp circuit, that's 14 Gauge 14/2 w Ground cable (like say Romex) wired up to a new added 15 amp 120 volt single pole branch circuit breaker in the panel. Wire the Black Hot to the breaker, White Neutral to the Neutral Buss, Bare/Green ground to the Equipment Ground Buss. If it requires a 20 amp circuit, that's 12/2 w/Ground wire and a 20 amp 120 volt single pole circuit breaker. 3) GFCI circuit: Its possible and code compliant (as I best recall) to have GFCI outlets on the same branch circuit as non GFCI outlets and I've seen RV's wired that way. If I had my druthers and was designing the power distribution and cost was NOT an issue??? however, I would at least consider having the GFCI protected outlets on their own circuit. 4) On many SMALLER RV's I've owned there may be only one, two, or three "outlets" (kitchen, bath, outdoor) that are GFCI protected with only one "actual GFCI receptacle" How it works is the bathroom (or kitchen) has a GFCI receptacle and its downstream LOAD side feeds a regular outlet in the kitchen area or outdoors which is, therefore, also GFCI protected (even though its a normal outlet). Of course, there may be more then one (say basement or outdoor or kitchen or bath) additional GFCI protected yet still normal outlets fed off the downstream LOAD side of a SINGLE GFCI receptacle. A reason for NOT ALL convenience outlets being GFCI protected is to avoid too much nuisance tripping. The bathroom and kitchen sink and outdoor areas are where GFCI protection is typically used/required but NOT say a microwave or fridge or bedroom or AC which aren't often GFCI protected. That's why I wouldn't design an RV where ALLLLLLLLL outlets are GFCI protected even if code may allow it to avoid excess nuisance tripping yet still have GFCI protection in the kitchen and bath and outdoors where its most critical. 5) Not being there I cant say how your branch circuits or circuit is wired, but if you only have one (small RV) branch circuit that feeds allllllllllllll (GFCI or normal) outlets and alls well and working and code compliant, I see no reason to change it even if GFCI and NON GFCI outlets are present on one circuit. Again its okay to have GFCI and NON GFCI outlets on a single branch circuit even if that's NOT my preference. On most RV's Ive owned (was a used RV dealer) there may be a branch circuit for say a microwave, a branch circuit for the Converter/Charger, maybe a circuit for an AC, maybe one or more convenience outlet circuits, maybe GFCI protected outlets on their own circuit maybe not. 6) If you plug the RC power cord into an Inverter, that's like plugging into a Generator which is configured as a Separately Derived Source and it needs to have a BONDED, Non Floating, Neutral as the RV panel (unlike homes main panel) has the Neutral and Ground Busses separate and isolated from each other NOTE As I best recall (NO warranty) GFCI protection in a bathroom or kitchen outlet is required within something like 6 feet from the basin. That's why you typically have a GFCI protected outlet (GFCI itself or fed downstream off the LOAD side of an earlier actual GFCI outlet) in the bath and kitchen (or outdoors) but often NOT where nuisance trips may occur and why some loads are best NOT GFCI protected. DISCLAIMER Ive been long retired as a power distribution design engineer and rusty on the NEC so do as it says and sure NOT me if any difference exists. Hey Yarome, you say "Hopefully Old John will chime in. He can walk you backward and forward on your CGFI and 120v system" I say forwards MAYBE but I'm too old to do it backwards lol John T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuneElliot Posted March 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 57 minutes ago, oldjohnt said: Dune, good questions, I agree with most of the above but maybe with all due respect disagree slightly with some. 1) Most if not all RV's I've encountered have the Converter/Charger on its own dedicated 120 VAC 15 or 20 amp Branch Circuit and NOT on a convenience outlet circuit. 2) THEREFORE I would install a new dedicated 15 or 20 amp branch circuit with a single pole circuit breaker wired up to the Converter/Charger alone. If it requires a 15 amp circuit, that's 14 Gauge 14/2 w Ground cable (like say Romex) wired up to a new added 15 amp 120 volt single pole branch circuit breaker in the panel. Wire the Black Hot to the breaker, White Neutral to the Neutral Buss, Bare/Green ground to the Equipment Ground Buss. If it requires a 20 amp circuit, that's 12/2 w/Ground wire and a 20 amp 120 volt single pole circuit breaker. 3) GFCI circuit: Its possible and code compliant (as I best recall) to have GFCI outlets on the same branch circuit as non GFCI outlets and I've seen RV's wired that way. If I had my druthers and was designing the power distribution and cost was NOT an issue??? however, I would at least consider having the GFCI protected outlets on their own circuit. 4) On many SMALLER RV's I've owned there may be only one, two, or three "outlets" (kitchen, bath, outdoor) that are GFCI protected with only one "actual GFCI receptacle" How it works is the bathroom (or kitchen) has a GFCI receptacle and its downstream LOAD side feeds a regular outlet in the kitchen area or outdoors which is, therefore, also GFCI protected (even though its a normal outlet). Of course, there may be more then one (say basement or outdoor or kitchen or bath) additional GFCI protected yet still normal outlets fed off the downstream LOAD side of a SINGLE GFCI receptacle. A reason for NOT ALL convenience outlets being GFCI protected is to avoid too much nuisance tripping. The bathroom and kitchen sink and outdoor areas are where GFCI protection is typically used/required but NOT say a microwave or fridge or bedroom or AC which aren't often GFCI protected. That's why I wouldn't design an RV where ALLLLLLLLL outlets are GFCI protected even if code may allow it to avoid excess nuisance tripping yet still have GFCI protection in the kitchen and bath and outdoors where its most critical. 5) Not being there I cant say how your branch circuits or circuit is wired, but if you only have one (small RV) branch circuit that feeds allllllllllllll (GFCI or normal) outlets and alls well and working and code compliant, I see no reason to change it even if GFCI and NON GFCI outlets are present on one circuit. Again its okay to have GFCI and NON GFCI outlets on a single branch circuit even if that's NOT my preference. On most RV's Ive owned (was a used RV dealer) there may be a branch circuit for say a microwave, a branch circuit for the Converter/Charger, maybe a circuit for an AC, maybe one or more convenience outlet circuits, maybe GFCI protected outlets on their own circuit maybe not. 6) If you plug the RC power cord into an Inverter, that's like plugging into a Generator which is configured as a Separately Derived Source and it needs to have a BONDED, Non Floating, Neutral as the RV panel (unlike homes main panel) has the Neutral and Ground Busses separate and isolated from each other DISCLAIMER Ive been long retired as a power distribution design engineer and rusty on the NEC so do as it says and NOT me if any difference exists. John T Wow, so much information to digest. 3) First, the GFCI outlets are on a separate circuit to the regular outlets...they have a dedicated breaker. There are two GFCI outlets inside...one in the bathroom and one in the kitchen. They both work when the converter breaker is off. I believe there is a GFCI outlet outside as well. The regular outlets do NOT have power when just the GFCI breaker is on. I haven't had the chance to pull the panel apart yet, due to the weather (lovely Wyoming rain) and mud, so I'm not sure if the converter and outlets are actually on the same circuit, or just hooked into the same breaker. Is that even possible? The converter is right behind the panel...I can hear the fan when I flip the breaker on...so I'm guessing it shouldn't be too hard to wire it to a new breaker. 6) Huh? I would like to understand what that said as it sounds important but not sure I get what it all means. Thanks everyone...getting there slowly. 2007 Keystone Springdale 245 FWRLL-S (modified) 2000 F-250 7.3L SRW Cody and Kye, border collie extraordinaires Latest departure date: 10/1/2017 Find us at www.nomadicpawprints.wordpress.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sehc Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 #6= Basically, never connect the white neutral to the green ground anywhere in the RV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldjohnt Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 32 minutes ago, DuneElliot said: 3) First, the GFCI outlets are on a separate circuit to the regular outlets...they have a dedicated breaker. There are two GFCI outlets inside...one in the bathroom and one in the kitchen. They both work when the converter breaker is off. I believe there is a GFCI outlet outside as well. The regular outlets do NOT have power when just the GFCI breaker is on. I haven't had the chance to pull the panel apart yet, due to the weather (lovely Wyoming rain) and mud, so I'm not sure if the converter and outlets are actually on the same circuit, or just hooked into the same breaker. Is that even possible? The converter is right behind the panel...I can hear the fan when I flip the breaker on...so I'm guessing it shouldn't be too hard to wire it to a new breaker. Dune, Sounds like your GFCI's are on their own circuit AND THATS FINE......... YES its physical "possible" (but NOT correct) someone may have simply wired the Converter/Chargers Black/Hot scabbed onto the same circuit breaker that also serves convenience outlets. See if a breaker has two instead of only the correct one wire ??? YES if it already has its White/Neutral and Bare/Green wired to the panels CORRECT busses, all you have to do is install your new 120 volt 15/20 amp single pole breaker and wire its Hot/Black there, PIECE OF CAKE. Id "guess" its wired with 14 Gauge 15 amp wire which dictates a 15 amp breaker, but if it has 12 Gauge wire and actually requires a 20 amp service (I doubt in a small RV) that's a 20 amp breaker. Sorry to be long winded but as one who had to draft specifications for electrical contracts and is also a lawyer I CANT HELP MYSELF LOL PS its possible to use a GFCI "Circuit Breaker" versus using GFCI Outlets, not sure what you have when you say "GFCI Breaker" ??? but you may well have a GFCI breaker that serves the kitchen and bath and outdoor receptacles??? That's fine............. John T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuneElliot Posted March 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 19 minutes ago, oldjohnt said: Dune, Sounds like your GFCI's are on their own circuit AND THATS FINE......... YES its physical "possible" (but NOT correct) someone may have simply wired the Converter/Chargers Black/Hot scabbed onto the same circuit breaker that also serves convenience outlets. See if a breaker has two instead of only the correct one wire ??? YES if it already has its White/Neutral and Bare/Green wired to the panels CORRECT busses, all you have to do is install your new 120 volt 15/20 amp single pole breaker and wire its Hot/Black there, PIECE OF CAKE. Id "guess" its wired with 14 Gauge 15 amp wire which dictates a 15 amp breaker, but if it has 12 Gauge wire and actually requires a 20 amp service (I doubt in a small RV) that's a 20 amp breaker. Sorry to be long winded but as one who had to draft specifications for electrical contracts and is also a lawyer I CANT HELP MYSELF LOL PS its possible to use a GFCI "Circuit Breaker" versus using GFCI Outlets, not sure what you have when you say "GFCI Breaker" ??? but you may well have a GFCI breaker that serves the kitchen and bath and outdoor receptacles??? That's fine............. John T The GFCI outlets (bathroom and kitchen wall outlets) are on their own circuit and that circuit has it's own breaker in the panel. I will check the panel this weekend when it dries up a little and get back to you on the rest...hopefully it is simple. 2007 Keystone Springdale 245 FWRLL-S (modified) 2000 F-250 7.3L SRW Cody and Kye, border collie extraordinaires Latest departure date: 10/1/2017 Find us at www.nomadicpawprints.wordpress.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk W Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 17 hours ago, Chad Heiser said: You want to move the outlets (or the converter) to a new breaker if you have the room in the panel. Don't combine them with the GFCI outlets. For me, determining which to move to the new circuit (converter or outlets), would be dependent on how the circuit is currently wired because it will entail pulling new wire somewhere. Most likely the converter is close to the power panel (but without seeing it, I can't say for sure). If this is the case, it should be easy to run new wire to the converter and remove it from the outlet circuit. It is quite likely that your converter has a power plug on the supply and the manufacturer just put an outlet near it on that same circuit, plugging the cord into it. I have seen many an RV wired in that way and all that you need do if this is the case is to add a circuit breaker that supplies a new outlet and then move the plug to it but for your purpose, you can just pull the plug to the converter if it is wired in that way. I happen to like that manner of installation since it is so easy to isolate the converter and there is nothing at all wrong with doing this. The place to start is by looking at the converter and trace the power supply cord to it's connection if you have not done so. Good travelin !...............KirkFull-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldjohnt Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Dune, let me know what you find and how and where the converter is wired now (be it hard wired to the panel or cord and plug or scabbed or whatever else you may find) then it will be pretty easy to add a circuit breaker dedicated to the Converter/Charger ONLY. My old Converter/Charger already had its own circuit breaker so it was a piece of cake. John T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yarome Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 10 hours ago, DuneElliot said: hopefully it is simple. Quite. Any you drew out the "big guns". You'll be good to go to get your inverter on-line in no time. On the other plus side.. it's great you're getting your electricals sorted (and a bit of hands on) before doing your solar install. It'll go "that" much easier. Doing great, Kiddo!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yarome Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 12 hours ago, oldjohnt said: I say forwards MAYBE but I'm too old to do it backwards You old fart.. LOL You still got some sideways game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuneElliot Posted March 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 12 hours ago, Yarome said: Quite. Any you drew out the "big guns". You'll be good to go to get your inverter on-line in no time. On the other plus side.. it's great you're getting your electricals sorted (and a bit of hands on) before doing your solar install. It'll go "that" much easier. Doing great, Kiddo!! Yeah, this will be one problem sorted...now if I can only find the leak I thought I had fixed!!! 2007 Keystone Springdale 245 FWRLL-S (modified) 2000 F-250 7.3L SRW Cody and Kye, border collie extraordinaires Latest departure date: 10/1/2017 Find us at www.nomadicpawprints.wordpress.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuneElliot Posted March 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 Finally had a moment to pull the cover off the breaker panel...and wouldn't ya know, two circuits hooked to the same breaker...one the converter, and the other the outlets. Purchasing another breaker today and will leave the converter hooked up to the original breaker and hook the outlets to the new breaker. The breaker for the outlets and converter was 15 amp. I guess I need to buy a 15 amp single pole breaker...is that the correct thinking. I get the 15 amps but what is the difference between single and double pole? The outlet circuit only has one wire to hook to a breaker. This is not the right breaker, but it's is what they look like...two switches on one breaker: 2007 Keystone Springdale 245 FWRLL-S (modified) 2000 F-250 7.3L SRW Cody and Kye, border collie extraordinaires Latest departure date: 10/1/2017 Find us at www.nomadicpawprints.wordpress.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk W Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 The picture is actually 2 separate circuit breakers inside of one housing, intended to save space. If your outlets are on one side and the converter is on the other, you already have separate breakers for them as they operate separately. Of course, if both the outlets and the converter are supplied by the same half of that breaker, you do need to add one to separate them. A single one would do fine for that purpose. Those doubles are just space saving devices and are sometimes found in house distribution panels. Double pole breakers have two breakers that are mechanically connected and which then connect to both legs (L1 & L2) in a box with two phases of 120V-ac power and thus supply 240V to the load via two hot leads. Good travelin !...............KirkFull-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuneElliot Posted March 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 They were both connected to the same half of the breaker. I have six breakers, three doubles like the picture above, and they were all in use...MAIN, fridge, GFCI, Converter/Outlets, Water heater and Microwave. I guess I only need a single at this point as I don't have any plans to add any other circuits to the 5W. Thank you 2007 Keystone Springdale 245 FWRLL-S (modified) 2000 F-250 7.3L SRW Cody and Kye, border collie extraordinaires Latest departure date: 10/1/2017 Find us at www.nomadicpawprints.wordpress.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuneElliot Posted March 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 Hope I picked the right one up...looks like the picture I have on my phone (and the one I posted above, except in 15amp). They were out of single breakers so bought the tandem breaker...I guess it gives me the option of adding a circuit if I ever chose to. 2007 Keystone Springdale 245 FWRLL-S (modified) 2000 F-250 7.3L SRW Cody and Kye, border collie extraordinaires Latest departure date: 10/1/2017 Find us at www.nomadicpawprints.wordpress.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldjohnt Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 Dune, you say that is NOT your actual breaker but yours looks like that. Here are my thoughts based on that information: 1) First of all what's shown is an HACR breaker typically used for Heating Air Conditioning and Refrigeration but that may or may not be what you have. 2) MORE IMPORTANT let me explain for you the difference in a 120 volt space saving SINGLE POLE TANDEM CIRCUIT BREAKER (still what picture shows regardless if an HACR or not),,,,,,,,,A NORMAL (non tandem) 120 VOLT SINGLE POLE BREAKER,,,,,,,,,,,, and a 240 volt TWO POLE CIRCUIT BREAKER: a) A 120 volt single pole non tandem breaker is only connected to ONE of the panels busses and since its 120 volts with respect to Neutral YOU ONLY GET 120 VOLTS to Neutral and there's ONLY ONE wiring terminal A 240 volt TWO POLE CIRCUIT BREAKER actually connects to TWO SEPARATE panels busses so its 240 VAC between its wiring terminals. Its used for 240 VAC loads c) Pictured is what's called a SINGLE POLE TANDEM BREAKER used to save space but note it still only connects to ONE buss so its still 120 volts with respect to Neutral on BOTH of its wiring terminals BUT ITS NOT 240 VOLTS ACROSS THOSE TWO.......... SUMMARY 1) 120 Volt Single pole breaker,,,,,,,,,,,,120 volt still single pole but tandem output breaker (as in picture),,,,,,,,,,,,240 volt actual TWO POLE breaker INSTALLATION: You could use one terminal of a 15 amp 120 volt TANDEM breaker to feed the converter/charger orrrrrrrrrrrr you could install a new 120 volt single pole (non tandem) breaker to feed it. If it was previously connected to as 15 amp breaker and had at least 14 gauge wire sure a new 15 amp breaker will suffice. SURE since you bought a tandem that will work fine for one of its terminal to feed the Converter/Charger plus have a spare 120 volt circuit. HOWEVER do NOT connect two wires into one breaker terminal !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hope this helps you understand the difference in 120 volt single pole breakers,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 120 volt single pole tandem breakers,,,,,,,,,,,,,,240 volt two pole breakers John T Long retired and rusty EE so no warranty this is from olddddddddddd memory lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yarome Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 7 hours ago, DuneElliot said: They were both connected to the same half of the breaker. You were right then. Someone got lazy on you. 4 hours ago, DuneElliot said: Hope I picked the right one up... I guess it gives me the option of adding a circuit if I ever chose to. Correct. If it's like the one you posted in 15amp then you're in business. The other photo below yours is a completely different animal. 1 hour ago, oldjohnt said: Hope this helps you understand the difference in 120 volt single pole breakers,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 120 volt single pole tandem breakers,,,,,,,,,,,,,,240 volt two pole breakers Good write up, John! Regardless if your converter is a plug in or hardwired it needs to be on it's own circuit. Personally.. I hate the plug in type and always cut the cord to hardwire it. Unplugging in order to isolate your converter.. well.. that's what breakers are for. A hardwired connection is going to be more efficient and cuts out a potention point of failure... and as WILL happen... resistance builds over time. If you "must" have a physical dissconnet then that's perfectly fine if you are using an appropriately sized male and female connecting cables (hardwired at the power distribution panel, hardwired at the converter but plug together in the middle.. preferrably locking), but what you normally see in applications like that are just a cheapo standard house type outlet. Just my personal preference and, if you DO have a plug in style converter, something to consider while you're poking around back in there anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuneElliot Posted March 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 It took me about 90 seconds to add the new breaker and reconnect the outlet circuit to the new set up. I tested, and outlets and converter both work on their separate breakers. Very glad this worked out so easily (unlike my damned leak). And the converter is hardwired...no easy disconnect which is fine by me. Everything is disconnected and turned off during travel and only turned on as necessary. Thank you everyone for your help...I know more now than I did three days ago, and more confident with electrical work which always makes me nervous. 2007 Keystone Springdale 245 FWRLL-S (modified) 2000 F-250 7.3L SRW Cody and Kye, border collie extraordinaires Latest departure date: 10/1/2017 Find us at www.nomadicpawprints.wordpress.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldjohnt Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 CONGRATULATIONS Dune PS I just developed a darn leak myself after almost 6 months on the road grrrrrrrrrrrrrr I think I know about where it is and it shouldn't be too hard to fix (famous last words) John T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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