recommended voltage meter

[grennier]

My first post!

 

Been an RVer for several years, but just purchased first motorhome - 2004 Minnie Winnie 24F.

 

We'll be doing a fair amount of boondocking and want to monitor battery usage. Don't know much about electrical systems so I was wondering if someone could recommend a simple voltage meter.

 

The motorhome has two deep cycle batteries. Help on installation would be appreciated as well.

 

Thanks!

[Yarome]

Welcome to the forum.

 

For straight battery monitoring I prefer the Bogart TriMetric 2030-A or 2030-RV. They are the same animal, but one flush mounts in a double gang box and the RV model is a wall mount with it's own enclosure. It will give you more information than you probably need, but IMO it is still one of the most accurate monitors out there. One nice feature of the newer 2030 is that it will give you a % of state of charge. It simplifies things to be able to just glance at it and know right off what percentage of charge remains in your batteries.

 

If you shop around a bit online, they can be had for around $150. I wouldn't pay any more than that, and anything less.. jump on it.

 

Alternately, you could always go with a simple voltmeter ($10), but that will never really give you any meaningful reading "on the fly" and requires a lot of guess work.

[Kirk W]

First let me welcome you to the Escapee forums! We do our best to help and support others so feel free to contribute as you like.

 

On the meter question, a great deal depends upon the use you intend to put it to. For the average person who will only use the basic functions, there is no need to spend a great deal of money as there are several very good, inexpensive yet reasonably accurate ones on the market today. In my opinion most RV folks do not need to spend any more than $50, perhaps even less. I do strongly suggest a digital version and one that has at least two decimal places in the display.

I suggest that you look to some of those from known good tool suppliers such as Sears, Home Depot, or one of the marketers who will stand behind what they sell. It is not necessary for most amateurs to go to the expense of a meter that is listed as "true RMS" because you probably won't ever need that level of accuracy. It may well be worth the added cost to get the feature "auto ranging" which means that you simply select AC voltage, DC voltage, or ohms and the meter will automatically select the proper range to read as that may well save you from damaging the meter if you make a mistake. You also should get one with an internal fuse, as that protects you from a serious mistake and can be replaced by the owner.

 

I will tell you that I use a much more expensive meter than those I suggest here and happen to have a preference for meters from John Fluke and my current primary meter sells for about $200+ at present, but even though I was a service tech for 40 years, I still very seldom need the features that make my meter as expensive as it is. I keep it because I trust it and because I do at times trouble shoot things where a few tenths of a volt or ohm do make a significant difference, but for 90% of what I do, those $30 to $50 meters will serve just fine and I even use one myself at times just to keep the good one for critical work.

 

The other advice that I would give to you is that once you purchase your new meter, take it out and read all of the instructions carefully and then go out and make some measurements with it of each type that it has a capability to do. Practice enough with the meter so that you will feel comfortable in using it as the time that it becomes important is usually not a good time to start figuring out how to use it. You would be very well served when that day comes to have spent several hours practicing and learning.

[gjhunter01]

I just bought a EXTECH 320 multimeter from amazon for $45. It has the auto range feature along with a non-contact voltage sensor, which will sound a buzzer when the meter gets near a outlet or live wire.

Greg

[Kirk W]

Sounds like a good choice. Now time to start practicing!

[Wrknrvr]

Maybe think about a a/c d/c ampmeter that will have Both a/c and d/c volt also.

When people call me for help on electric problems I ask them if they have a meter they will test amps also.

Something that would help

 

 

Safe Travels. Vern

[mscans]

I installed the Voltminder ( http://www.voltminder.com/) in my RV. ran lines to a box on the dash and a SPDT switch to select chassis or house battery. The unit worked great and it also has an alarm that can be set to alert you to low voltage.

[KRum]

Here is a nice dedicated meter: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013PKYILS?redirect=true&ref_=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza

 

[Kirk W]

While the meters in posts #7 & 8 are not a bad thing, neither one is useful in trouble shooting and both are limited to 12V-dc systems. They could be very useful if you do a lot of dry camping or use solar power. If you only buy one meter, get one of those suggested previously.

[Sehc]

I just got a combination, clip on, 600 amp DC, meter from Radio Shack. On sale for 50%, plus other discounts, cost me less than $20. It checks very close on volts compared to a Fluke, and is consistant. The clip on amp reading confirms to the gauge on the Pro Mariner charger.

[Ray,IN]

First let me welcome you to the Escapee forums! We do our best to help and support others so feel free to contribute as you like.

 

On the meter question, a great deal depends upon the use you intend to put it to. For the average person who will only use the basic functions, there is no need to spend a great deal of money as there are several very good, inexpensive yet reasonably accurate ones on the market today. In my opinion most RV folks do not need to spend any more than $50, perhaps even less. I do strongly suggest a digital version and one that has at least two decimal places in the display.

 

I suggest that you look to some of those from known good tool suppliers such as Sears, Home Depot, or one of the marketers who will stand behind what they sell. It is not necessary for most amateurs to go to the expense of a meter that is listed as "true RMS" because you probably won't ever need that level of accuracy. It may well be worth the added cost to get the feature "auto ranging" which means that you simply select AC voltage, DC voltage, or ohms and the meter will automatically select the proper range to read as that may well save you from damaging the meter if you make a mistake. You also should get one with an internal fuse, as that protects you from a serious mistake and can be replaced by the owner.

 

I will tell you that I use a much more expensive meter than those I suggest here and happen to have a preference for meters from John Fluke and my current primary meter sells for about $200+ at present, but even though I was a service tech for 40 years, I still very seldom need the features that make my meter as expensive as it is. I keep it because I trust it and because I do at times trouble shoot things where a few tenths of a volt or ohm do make a significant difference, but for 90% of what I do, those $30 to $50 meters will serve just fine and I even use one myself at times just to keep the good one for critical work.

 

The other advice that I would give to you is that once you purchase your new meter, take it out and read all of the instructions carefully and then go out and make some measurements with it of each type that it has a capability to do. Practice enough with the meter so that you will feel comfortable in using it as the time that it becomes important is usually not a good time to start figuring out how to use it. You would be very well served when that day comes to have spent several hours practicing and learning.

grennier, that is IMO the best advice you'll ever receive about buying and using a VOM.

[Jimalberta]

The op specifically states that he wants to " monitor battery usage" so the posts recommending multi meters are not applicable to this thread.

[Kirk W]

The op specifically states that he wants to " monitor battery usage" so the posts recommending multi meters are not applicable to this thread.

You mean that I need to stop using my meter? If the only purpose of the meter is the battery, then the choice in post #8 looks pretty good to me.

[grennier]

My apologies for the late reply. I've been busy and for some reason I didn't get this thread in my daily digest.

 

Thanks to all who responded.

 

Regarding what I want, I'm not really sure as I'm new to this battery thing and have no background.

 

So I'll back up a little and rephrase - What advice would you give to someone in my situation (small Class C with two standard deep cycle batteries and limited electricity usage -- mainly the water pump, LED lights and possibly an hour of TV at night) regarding battery care? I'd like to make these batteries last as long as I can, but realize at about $100 each ($200 total) any equipment I buy or items I purchase might not be cost effective. Will I really get a noticeable return by doing extra monitoring and care with these batteries versus just watching the inside gauge (4 lights) and recharging once a day by running the generator for a couple of hours? And if I can get by with just the inside gauge, how should I react when the light drops to 3/4 vs 1/2 vs 1/4?

 

Thanks!

[Yarome]

The op specifically states that he wants to " monitor battery usage" so the posts recommending multi meters are not applicable to this thread.

 

X2.

 

You mean that I need to stop using my meter? If the only purpose of the meter is the battery, then the choice in post #8 looks pretty good to me.

 

Multimeters are fine when your batteries are properly 'rested' between usage/charging, but not very effective when trying to determine current SOC while under load. A multimeter also won't tell you amps in/out to help determine actual usage. You also have to physically access your battery bank where a battery monitor does continuous testing and can be monitored remotely at a glance.

 

The meter linked in post #8 might work, but the shunt is only 100 amp and might be too small for an RV application. Where you often "get what you pay for" I would be suspect of it's accuracy/durability, but for the price... it might be worth a try. No doubt better than a stock panel.

 

Will I really get a noticeable return by doing extra monitoring and care with these batteries versus just watching the inside gauge (4 lights) and recharging once a day by running the generator for a couple of hours?

 

Absolutely! Stock panel gauges are notoriously inaccurate. With additional monitoring you're better able to control the discharge and charge levels which will help keep your battery bank 'healthy'. Of course, many folks do the "guessing game" without investing in additional equipment and do just fine. Replacing slowly dying batteries every 3-5 years isn't a major financial hardship, and to some, worth not having to spend time with battery monitoring and maintenance

 

On the other hand.. with a little care, it's not all that difficult to get 10+ years out of a battery bank at much higher sustained capacities over the life of your batteries. It all just depends on what works for you.

[Sehc]

A multi-meter is very handy for checking any electric circuit, including checking batteries. Using one is a easily learned skill. For your batteries, get a $1 gallon of distilled water and something like a baster to fill the cells as often as needed. Just check the liquid level until you learn how often they need water. Hopefully only once or twice per year. Keep the top of the batteries and the terminal connections clean.

[grennier]

I check my batteries once a month to keep them clean and check battery levels.

 

One of my main concerns is not drawing down the battery too far and damage it permanently (or reduce its effectiveness over the near term). Should I have a monitor to address this concern? Or can I just use the stock monitor (say never let it drop below 3/4 level)?

 

Is there a simple monitor I can install to tell me "It's time to charge!!!" My batteries are located under my steps and I'd like something simple, cheap and accurate (can you get all three?) that I can hookup when needed, run the wires out the steps and be able to look at the readings occasionally.

 

I want to keep this simple. No major installations. No need to get 10 years out of a battery at this time (I can afford $200 every 3-4 years).

[Kirk W]

While I agree that the standard battery indicator in the vast majority of RV when purchased is of very little practicle use, the rest of the answer depends a great deal upon the person using it and how it is used. While I don't profess to be an expert, I did make a living as an electrical/mechanical tech for 40 years and have owned and maintained RVs for more than 35 years. I still believe that you would be wise to get the multimeter that I suggested previously, just as a part of your tool box, no matter what else you get. But high quality monitoring devices are not inexpensive and like most tools they do nothing for you unless you also learn how to use them. For those who do a lot of dry camping and especially those who use solar it is worthwhile to buy a good battery monitor system but you need to also understand what it tells you.

 

I have never gone to the extent that many here advocate as I rarely dry camp for more than one or two nights in succession and I always had a generator to use when we were fulltime. Monitoring the electrolyte levels is the #1 thing to do to keep batteries healthy. I don't recall ever getting a coach battery to last for 10 years, even with the best of care & have averaged more like 5 or 6 years. I consider that to be pretty reasonable for most RV use. Of course, part of this issue is in what you spend on the batteries because the more expensive gel or AGM batteries will last longer with good maintenance and care, but I also just use flooded cell.

Is there a simple monitor I can install to tell me "It's time to charge!!!" My batteries are located under my steps and I'd like something simple, cheap and accurate (can you get all three?) that I can hookup when needed, run the wires out the steps and be able to look at the readings occasionally.

In my opinion, the answer to this is no. How long each time do you plan to stay with no electrical power and how frequently? The return on effort and investment will depend upon your use. I think that I have a reasonable ability to check my batteries and some knowledge of battery care and for me, the cost of equipment and time required to do the work doesn't justify my time or money.

[mscans]

X2.

 

 

 

Multimeters are fine when your batteries are properly 'rested' between usage/charging, but not very effective when trying to determine current SOC while under load. A multimeter also won't tell you amps in/out to help determine actual usage. You also have to physically access your battery bank where a battery monitor does continuous testing and can be monitored remotely at a glance.

 

The meter linked in post #8 might work, but the shunt is only 100 amp and might be too small for an RV application. Where you often "get what you pay for" I would be suspect of it's accuracy/durability, but for the price... it might be worth a try. No doubt better than a stock panel.

 

 

 

Absolutely! Stock panel gauges are notoriously inaccurate. With additional monitoring you're better able to control the discharge and charge levels which will help keep your battery bank 'healthy'. Of course, many folks do the "guessing game" without investing in additional equipment and do just fine. Replacing slowly dying batteries every 3-5 years isn't a major financial hardship, and to some, worth not having to spend time with battery monitoring and maintenance

 

On the other hand.. with a little care, it's not all that difficult to get 10+ years out of a battery bank at much higher sustained capacities over the life of your batteries. It all just depends on what works for you.

The Bogart Geometric does come stock with a 100A shunt but a larger (500A I believe) is available and the meter is then set accordingly. Pulling over 100A requires some hefty wiring so be careful if you are doing that routinely.

 

I stand corrected, but I used Panther http://panther-rvproducts.com/TriMetric-TM-2030-RV-Battery-System-Monitor-Package-P-B1005.htm and the 100 A shunt was standard but you could get either 50 or 1000 A. units if you wanted. They packaged a system not just parts.

[grennier]

How long each time do you plan to stay with no electrical power and how frequently? The return on effort and investment will depend upon your use. I think that I have a reasonable ability to check my batteries and some knowledge of battery care and for me, the cost of equipment and time required to do the work doesn't justify my time or money.

 

My max stay will probably be 3-4 days. Since we don't pull a toad, we'll usually have to drive the motorhome to venture out or get supplies every few days. Based on what I'm learning, the return on effort and investment for any upgrades would probably be minimal. It seems like maintenance is key, followed by low usage and refreshing the batteries with the generator each day.

[arlipscomb]

I would not discount the multi-meter. As you learn your new system it can help understand what is going on and let you verify things like charge voltage, parasitic loads and the like. It is a good way to get started and a tool that is worth learning. I have one that matches what Kirk posted above.

 

If your batteries are not sealed a decent hydrometer is a big help as well.

 

The Trimetric meter is the "buy once, cry once" solution for battery monitoring. It is a bit more expensive than other solutions, but you will not out grow it. Installation is reasonable if you have the skill set needed.

 

Consider a small, portable solar charging solution as well. A panel that can be set up in the sun can keep your batteries topped off and save hours on your generator. You may well find that the panels do most of the work and you will only need to run the generator occasionally.

[grennier]

I would not discount the multi-meter. As you learn your new system it can help understand what is going on and let you verify things like charge voltage, parasitic loads and the like. It is a good way to get started and a tool that is worth learning. I have one that matches what Kirk posted above.

 

If your batteries are not sealed a decent hydrometer is a big help as well.

 

The Trimetric meter is the "buy once, cry once" solution for battery monitoring. It is a bit more expensive than other solutions, but you will not out grow it. Installation is reasonable if you have the skill set needed.

 

Consider a small, portable solar charging solution as well. A panel that can be set up in the sun can keep your batteries topped off and save hours on your generator. You may well find that the panels do most of the work and you will only need to run the generator occasionally.

 

Based on what I've learned here, I will purchase and learn how to use a multi-meter.

 

Regarding solar, which is something I've considered, would the Go Power! GP-PSK-120 120W Portable Folding Solar Kit with 10 Amp Solar Controller (http://amzn.to/1PnwMqr)%C2'> be a good choice for my situation?

[arlipscomb]

The Go Power! line is something I have looked at, but have no experience with. People seem to be happy with that brand so do some looking around and see what makes sense for you.

 

I am currently using a "home brew" Morningstar 10 amp PWM controller and an ancient 55 watt panel (over 20 years old) to maintain the 2 x 12 volt "marine deep cycle" batteries in my rig. All my lights are now LED and I don't watch a lot of TV. Much of this depends on how much power you average and how discharged your batteries end up.

 

My plan is to next pick up a panel in the 100 watt range to help extend my off grid time. That will be a good match for my controller and battery capacity. I am debating on buying a "folding" panel or building something myself. This should limit my need to run my generator, but I know that I will not eliminate it.

 

So I would say you are in the ballpark.

[Yarome]

The Bogart Geometric does come stock with a 100A shunt but a larger (500A I believe) is available and the meter is then set accordingly. Pulling over 100A requires some hefty wiring so be careful if you are doing that routinely.

 

The Trimetric might be packaged that way with some vendors, but it's not a standard equipment bundle. The 100A or 500A shunts are generally sold separately, but yes, you choose one or the other and set the meter accordingly. In a 30A rig you could probably get away with a 100A shunt, but even then it depends on what you plan to power. Ie., If you slap in a 2000w+ inverter and crank your microwave over you'll be pulling over 100A.

[Yarome]

I would not discount the multi-meter. As you learn your new system it can help understand what is going on and let you verify things like charge voltage, parasitic loads and the like. It is a good way to get started and a tool that is worth learning. I have one that matches what Kirk posted above.

 

If your batteries are not sealed a decent hydrometer is a big help as well.

 

The Trimetric meter is the "buy once, cry once" solution for battery monitoring. It is a bit more expensive than other solutions, but you will not out grow it. Installation is reasonable if you have the skill set needed.

 

Consider a small, portable solar charging solution as well. A panel that can be set up in the sun can keep your batteries topped off and save hours on your generator. You may well find that the panels do most of the work and you will only need to run the generator occasionally.

 

X2. Good advice, that. Regardless.. a decent multi-meter and hydrometer should be in everyone's toolbox.