Another project Trying a restoration

[noteven]

I heard it said one time when hand loading military rifle calibers to start with the original military design load as a baseline. 

[Wrknrvr]

So I do work on this subject occasionally.

 

  Where I shoot it is a hassle to make enough trips to get everything to the range. So I have been thinking how to solve the many trips. My wife gives up real quick.

so I built a bum cart, sorta. It looks like a bum cart anyway.

Tomorrow I hope to put this to use, as I will be out of seeing after Wednesday for about 5 days. Until my shot in the eyes get calmed down.

 

 I will take a picture of it in use as it is intended.

 

  Vern 

 

 

[Darryl&Rita]

If it works, it's not crazy. Some of the range carts I've seen during competitions can only be described as "Impressive". Most are homemade, often to accommodate the users physique.

[Wrknrvr]

So this is the bum cart turned into a shooting cart.

 

  Also I made a adjustable gun rest. So that I can start to eliminate as many variables as possible. I need to inspect my cartridges that I have loaded and have not shot yet. A few still have 30 grains of black powder in them. I will remove the old powder and put 50 grains of powder in them. I started with 30 grains to get the rifle to shoot on target. Now that I have a bullet that works, the scope on target and the crosshairs that work. I now can work on shooting at more of a distance. Black powder is hard to find so skimping was sorta needed.  

  Now thinking of finding a place to shoot over 300 yards the cart may make this much more fun. I may need to walk a distance to get a open shot. But that is just in the thinking stage. Need to satisfy the 300 yard mark. I have now idea if I can do that. 

 

  Stay safe ,   Vern

[Wrknrvr]

  Yesterday I went to the range. Tried the bum cart. It works fairly good. Note. Next time inflate the tires. It may work better.

 

   So I did shoot several rounds at 100 yards. Adjusted the sites to center on the target. Then realized I need to remove the scope tube to adjust the elevation to lower the point of impact 5”.  So ok this is starting to look like I can make it work. At least to 100 yards.

  My next thing is to remove all the bullets and powder from the  cartridges I have loaded. Then start over with just one size powder charge. Then I can  just insert each paper patched bullet that I want to use at the range. 

  I guess what I am saying is that even though I mark all my cartridges it still gets confusing at the range. I really need to just have two different bullets to compare.

 

  I also need someone else to along to the range. That guy with the muzzleloader sure gets me confused.

  Is this a 45/70 bullet or is it a muzzleloader bullet

 

  maybe just take one rifle at a time. So I guess it will be a flip of the coin to se what gun to take along.

 

   Vern in a T-shirt 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Wrknrvr

[Wrknrvr]

  With my eyes returning to somewhat normal after having injections last week, I was doing more thinking about the sight tube. Maybe not enough light coming through the rear opening at say 100 yards.

 So I made several rear eye pieces. The smallest is only .019 in diameter. And it is hard to see much through that size hole even out at hundreds of yards. Then as the hole sizes get bigger the more light comes in it is easier to see at 100 yards. The largest is 212 thousands of a inch in diameter.

  That makes a quit a difference in seeing the target. But I think the front sight hole with the crosshairs may need to be bigger to also leave more light in. Hopefully tomorrow I can make one. And it may also need a shadow tube to help also.

  I did change to a new bullet diameter and have 40 cartridges loaded the same.

     If this smoke clears out some I may go out to the range again in a few days.

  Safe travels and stay safe,    Vern

 

[Wrknrvr]

   So I have occasionally been doing shooting stuff. Really could be called stuff. More stuff doesn’t work compared to what works. But it makes it interesting.

  I had a thought about just buying a manufactured rifle. But that would take most of the fun away.

   So I did get 20 rounds of 45/70 loaded, with 50 grains of black powder and a paper patched bullet. Also loaded 20 rounds with 60 grains powder and the same style bullet. 

  So most of the smoke has cleared so it is much nicer to be outside very long. It has been smoky for 8 weeks or more from the forest fires in the northwest.

  So finally at the range Sunday afternoon. Just the 80 yard range. Set the table rest up and all staff out. Put two targets on the bank. Loaded a round and squeezed first round off. 3”” high but on center. Fired another round. Too the right 3””. Go to load the next round, bullet will not chamber. .???

  Look at bullet!,!!!!!!!!  The paper patching has caught the rifling.  So chamber the next round and squeeze it off.  While looking through a spotting scope I see all the bullets went through the target straight on. So I fired one more round off.  I walked down to the target and all rounds fired went straight through the target. No bullets went through sideways.

  When I first shot this rifle with 45 colt pistol bullets loaded in a 45/70 case, it did look like buckshot pattern. They went in all directions 

   So it seems like I have a good bullet design and swaged to a smooth proper diameter.

  So after cleaning the barrel again I chamber another round sorta. Hard to get the cartridge in. Use a ramrod to push cartridge back out. Yep, paper patching wrinkled back. This subject needs some attention.

  Load another round. Now I feel better about shooting so calm down and now I need to figure out the scope idea. I d did say it was a idea. I have not really shot any rifle with a scope since about 1973.

  I always shot a scope gun with one eye. It worked back then. But not so now.      I did say the scope was a good idea. How I built it may need practice with or maybe modify it. With one eye I loose some focus when I am taking my time to rest, relax and squeeze the trigger slowly.

   But with both eyes open I can see better. It seems to be confusing to my mind with the left eye seeing the scope mount sticking just to the right of my vision in the left eye. Will take a picture today and post it about the scope mounting.  

   Note to self,  the helper is bored. She went for a walk.

 

   I do need to address the paper patching hanging up on the rifling. Also the scope seeing problem needs to be understood. I take a look at it today and try and get a urea what to do.

 

  The muzzleloader guy now wants the bench for practice , so till next time.    

    Vern 

[Wrknrvr]

  So I am still thinking this adventure out some. But I ran into a dilemma. I cannot figure out how to load this cartridge. 

   Makes me think I mite be falling off my rocker.

 

  I did get some white backer for targets. I also figured out the scope tube works at longer ranges . Just not at 80 or 100 yards distance. My eye will focus at long distance, just not at shorter distances.

   Been doing other interesting things things.

 

 Stay Safe,    Vern

 

 on a side note?   That cartridge has a real purpose. Just want you to think about it.

 

[Wrknrvr]

  I have been thinking about going back to tying  flies for trout fishing. But the rivers in Montana are closed to fishing or only allowed in the am. So I will leave the fishing subject rest. Till later in the fall and we get more rain.

 

   So the paper patching subject has really been irritating at the least. With reading and thinking about this subject. I have been doing other things in life.

  Yesterday I wanted to do so cleaning of old lead for bullet casting. I have found a new way to purify lead. With the help of the internet I discovered saw dust will do the job. So I tried it with sorta good success.

  Then put the casting stuff away. Set the rifle up on the bum cart rifle rest. Decided to study the scope only at a long distance. Only focusing on 200 yards or more. Even out to 1000 yards. My right eye will focus really good at those distances. Using two eyes with the scope is still sorta on hold.

 

 So took the barrels off the stock. Set it on the bench rest. Got about 30 rounds of ammo that is loaded with paper patched bullets. Now the last time at the range the first couple shots worked really good. Then I got the idea to put bullet lube on the outside of the paper patch on the bullet.    What a lesson on what not to do. Do not lay greased bullets on anything, it may just pick up debris.  Grease and a spec of stuff may just make the paper patched paper to wrinkle as rubs the rifling and not leave the bullet chamber properly.

 

  No swearing aloud.  Now I have never used a paper patched bullet until this project was at the test bench.

   So while I was cleaning the bullets of grease and cleaning the chamber also of grease I thought of trying to chamber the clean bullets. Now I have read about not reworking the brass as it works best after fire formed. So I have not used anything to reshape the used brass.   For paper patching bullets you need to have the bullet slip into the case. No crimping used.

   Next lesson learned, spent brass is to be handled with extreme care.

  1/3 of the brass would not chamber because of my mishandling of the spent brass. So I used the depriming tool without the depriming part. Just pushed it over the loaded case by hand to shape the bullet case to true roundness. At least enough to chamber the round.

  Set up my press to correct all my loaded rounds. They now all chamber easily. With not bothering the paper patching.

  As said in the beginning of the adventure I never used this type of bullets. Nor have I talked to anybody about this subject. 

 

 Tuesday is my next time at the range. But at 7 am I will be getting a tooth filled. So by noon I hope to be at the range again and feeling good to do some testing.   Do I take my helper along, or not.

 

    Stay safe,     Vern

[Wrknrvr]

   Lately I have been thinking about buy golf clubs.

 

 

  Then I remembered in a month I will be surrounded by BLM land. With lots  of open spaces. And not far from our campsite.

  I have two weeks to finish work, make any dies, molds or whatever for more projects for this winter.

  I do need to stop and do some fly fishing on the way south also.

 

  Stay safe on your travels,   Vern

 

[noteven]

Geez Vern don't scare me like that.

[Wrknrvr]

  Well folks I have been doing some serious thinking about shooting at a long distance.

  I have figured out some of my mistakes that I have been doing.

 

1.  Not using soft lead for bullet making. I stumbled into how to purify lead. Simple subject to accomplish. Just stir a small piece of paper towel in the molten lead. The carbon will remove zinc from the wheel weights I am using.

2.  Not using enough powder.  Being cheap as in using 1/2 the powder needed. A heavy load of powder will have bullet obutuate , not the correct spelling. I think it means the back of the bullet will swell to take up the rifling more. Remembering my colt 45 bullets flying everywhere. Yep to little powder and not enough lead.

3.  Eye sight?    Well my eyes are doing really well. So I finally had a eye test and now have a new set of seeing glasses. Yep I do.

   Now I have a black garbage can lid on a white background at about 1000 yards. No I cannot shoot at it. But looking at it is questionable. With new glasses it does not look correct. So I stoped by my eye doctors today for what the heck is going on.           There was a quiet mention of shooting glasses?   Never heard of shooting glasses I guess. Just thought of them as regular seeing glasses that some rich dude needed so he could say he had shooting glasses.

  Well from what I have read in about ten minutes on real shooting glasses they should be glass or some odd lenses.

  Now I can see just like I think I should using binoculars. So new subject to think about.

  Seeing for normal is one thing, trying to concentrate on a small subject at such a distance is (            ). Remember the small holes in my tube scope. Makes me think to much at times.

  In competition today in black powder no scopes with lenses allowed.

 

4.   But what I hope to do in about two weeks is to be on open BLM land in the south west. Going to be hiding somewhere just Incase someone sees me and I still cannot hit a barn door at 50’.

 

5.    So I have been doing some bullet mold tinkering. Not sure what they will produce.

6.   Trying to keep both eyes open at the same time while shooting may be an advantage. It seems as though the mind will blend the best of both eyes to see the best it can. Now this subject is wide open for thinking.

7.   I am sure I will find more stuff to figure out before I can shoot like I hope I can

8.  I will also try to refine making a bullet mold out of some hardwood. Just to see if I can do it.

 

 

  So there is snow in the mountains and it is time to leave Montana soon.

 

  The more I learn the more I realize how little I know.

 

   Vern 

[Wrknrvr]

    Well now I finally am hiding interestingly in the southwest. And found a shooting range about 15 minutes away.

  So I went yesterday and had to stop at the pistol range for another off the wall test. It went good.

  So finally got to the rifle range. it is a covered shooting bench area. It has shooting benches and rather nice conditions.

  So I setup a target. Go back to the bench. So now I have 30 rounds of ammo loaded. 50, 60 and 70 grains of black powder. All with paper patched bullets. Nice weather and no one watching.

  Load a round and touch it off. Low and to the left. Touch another round off and it is low and to the left. Adjust the front sight as it is the easiest to move. Clean the bore as I am now shooting real black powder. Grab another round and put it in. But it will not chamber. Try two more, but when I pull the cartridge out as they will not seat the whole way. The bullet stays in the bore.

  Finally get a round to chamber. Now it is low and to the right. Next round will not chamber.

  Now mad again.  Ok now what is happening. Ok I realized the paper is possibly wrapped the wrong way around the bullet. As the bullet goes in it is wrapped opposite of the rifling. Sorta like not a good idea maybe.

 

  So then this rifle chamber was curt 45 years ago. With no knowledge of paper patching of bullets.    Original 45/70s were made for shooting paper patched bullets.         The area for the bullet itself has what is called free bore.     So I used a remote camera and there is a straight shoulder where the bullet enters the rifling.

   So now to figure out how to accomplish making the freebore without a machine shop or machine tools. Like back in the 1870s.

 

  On a side note Allen was at the range also. He is the guy with the muzzleloader. He was really confused beyond mad. He got new glasses and cannot see the target at 100 yards with his scope. But just looking at the target he says he can see really good.

 

  At least my problems are getting more confined to just a few.

 

 Vern

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by Wrknrvr

[Wrknrvr]

Thinking

 

 

Edited November 21, 2021 by Wrknrvr

[Wrknrvr]

[Wrknrvr]

  Now there is a lot of hidden info in this photo.

  On the right is a new loaded cartridge with the loose paper. That is a problem.    So just before the case is inserted in the gun the bullet needs to be installed, then some bees wax wiped under that flap and around the bullet then smooth it out to a tight fit.

 The next cartridge is a paper patched bullet inserted backwards so as the bottom can dry in the proper position.  It is slid out to show it. But when i wrap the bullet I then just dampen the bottom of the bullet so it will keep its shape. Then insert it in a case backwards to dry.

  So far so good.

  After letting the bullet dry, do not disturb it at all. I mean do not touch it. When you are at the range and ready to shoot get a charged cartridge case out. It has a new primer, powder and the grease cookie installed. Also it must not be fiddled with at all until you are ready to insert a new paper patched bullet and load the gun with it. 

  The next two photos shows what happens when you get a loaded cartridge out and fiddle with it. When not at the range and ready to use the cartridge.

  Yep my rough fingers that are cracked and toughened from working on stuff causes the blank paper to get messed up.    Yep my impatience and curiosity makes for bad paper patching. Which then is one cause of the cartridge not working as designed.

 

  Next is to make the chamber in the barrel a freebore chamber. Without shop tools as we are now in New Mexico.

 

thinking,      Vern 

  On another note, that Allen guy with the muzzleloader sometimes is really quiet. Only shoots a couple rounds and then leaves the shooting range. Next time I see him I will see if I can help him with his problems.

 

 

 

[rickeieio]

Vern,  Tell Allen I said "howdy".  I haven't seen him in quite a while.

[Wrknrvr]

  So I have glued several different grits of sandpaper on to a wood shaft. Starting with 100 grit down to 1500 grit. Testing on a short piece of barrel that I have. Now I cannot go to the bottom of the grooves on this as it is to be used for another shooting thought. 

   The angle bullet with sand paper works. But I glued some other shaped bullets with sand paper for testing.    Sure glad I have other barrel sections to fiddle with with.  I say fiddle with as this is being done as in the 1870’s.

  Vern

 

[Darryl&Rita]

I don't know, Vern. Is that a pair of Vice-Grip type locking pliers? Too new. LOLOL! I think you're on the right track.

[Wrknrvr]

  Well yesterday I was thinking about what I am attempting to do. Sorta nervous about it. And then I thought about putting cartridge in the chamber with a sanding head on it to cut the main bevel on the lands.

 

  So insert a sanding cartridge. Now how can I rotate the cartridge. Not much more than the rim sticking out to grab. I do want to save the cartridge for use later. 

     Some thinking and then tinkering to follow.

   Still nervous about said subject.

 

 

   I think I will get Allen over here to get his thoughts,     Vern

[Wrknrvr]

   I also was thinking and tinkering with another idea.  How do I not go toooo far into the rifling.

    Mmmmmmm.    How about a depth gauge.

  

[Wrknrvr]

  Today I was brave enough to try it in the barrel. It worked good on my test barrel. So why not.

  Tie the barrel down with rope, not vice grips.   Test the angle bullet with sand paper on it to cut the sharp edge off.  Feeling good about this now that I started. Gauge the bore with driving a groove size bullet into the lands.   So then start sanding the bore with my polishing tool. Boy it is working good stop, clean out the debris a few times. Then I noticed the sand paper has wore out. So I removed old sand paper and glued new on. But now I need to let the glue dry.

  Hopefully later today I can get back to it.

 

feeling good about my test, but tough thinking. Maybe go fishing but the lake is about dry.

  Have a good day,    Vern

[Wrknrvr]

  This has been a touchy subject.

 So the chamber freebore was opened up about .003 of a inch. Then the bevel was cleaned up and just a touch of material was removed.

 

  I did change paper for my paper patching. Made sure every bullet case fit in the chamber. It is loaded with primer, powder and grease cookie. Ready to have bullet installed at the monument before installation into chamber at the range.

[Wrknrvr]

  Just for a update on this project.   So the treatment for freebore works really good. I can load a round and fire it just like it should.

 

  I am embarrassed enough I cannot tell what I did yesterday at the range. It was so bad that Allen walked away laughing. I will get to that subject in a day or three.

  As I get a shot in both eyes for macular degeneration this am.

 

      Have fun today,   Vern

[Wrknrvr]

  this is Thursday’s target.  Look at it. I did not see the bullet holes until I was done for the day and walked up to the target to retrieve.

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by Wrknrvr