Any Additional Weight I Need To Consider for RV Weight?

[PrescillaM]

I’m another newbie to the forum and am going to purchase my first RV. I am a soon to be divorcee and have wanted to travel in an RV for quite some time. Now, that I have the means, and the time, I am going to do it. My plan is to purchase the RV and truck, here in Oregon, where I currently live. Then I would like to travel for a minimum of 6 months to one year. I may decide to do it longer term if the lifestyle suits me. After that I will more than likely settle closer to my son in TX so I can be nearer my granddaughter. I plan to keep the RV and leave the TX area during the summer months when it is too hot and humid for me to be there. I lived there for 14 years and if I can escape, I will. So, I am looking for an RV that I can live in full time for months at a time with my two small dogs.

I have towed a 20ft. boat/trailer for many summers in the past. I currently drive a Ford F150 during the winters here so I am comfortable with driving a truck. I have driven a 28’ Class C and felt very comfortable doing so but have never towed a 5th wheel. This will be a whole new experience for me. Since it will be a one person show I figured that hitching up a 5th wheel would be a lot easier than hooking up a trailer on my own. So, that is why I’ve chosen to go with a 5th wheel over a travel trailer. Plus, it seems like there would certainly be less length behind the truck since the 5th wheel hooks up inside of the bed. And, it seems like a much more stable system.

I have been looking at 29’ Keystone Cougar 5th wheel and know what I like and don’t like. It has a GVWR of 10,000-lbs. Figuring in the 127 gallons of fluids (maximum) for gray/black/fresh at 8.35-lbs gives me a total for that of 1060-lbs. So, I have 11,060-lbs in total weight calculated for towing requirements. Is there anything else that I need to take into account if I fill it with the maximum payload allowed?

I have been looking at a Ford F250 (3/4 ton) for a tow vehicle. I’ve seen some comments where people recommend having a tow vehicle that is capable of towing the RV at 80% of its towing capacity. This would give me a tow vehicle requirement of 13,825lbs. Is this correct?

If this is the case then it looks like an F250 Super Cab with a 6.7L diesel V8 would be sufficient with a towing capacity of 16,300-lbs. Would I be able to go with the 6.2L gas V8 with a towing capacity of 12,700 or is that cutting the towing capacity too close?

Is it necessary to go with the diesel engine?

Thank you ahead of time.

PM

[skp51443]

The factory numbers are a bit iffy as you may have seen in other posts so rather than trying to figure out real numbers for the truck's ratings when towing an RV trailer the 80% is a reasonable shortcut. If you are close to the 80% number it is probably worth doing the work to get real weights and figure in corrections for the manufacturer's funny numbers.

 

Ford: http://www.ford.com/trucks/superduty/specifications/towing/

 

Ratio - Combined - Tow

3.31 --- 23500 --- 16600

3.55 --- 23500 --- 16600

 

Not a lot of difference in the two diesel axle options but the 3.31 should give a tiny bit more MPG and less noise. I'd go with that if your weight is near the bottom of the range and go with the 3.55 if your weight is on the higher end.

 

Gas is difference is a bit more and a lot lower than the diesel, unless the price difference is a real problem I'd go with the diesel and the extra 700 pounds, you'll appreciate the diesel's power delivery too.

 

Ratio - Combined - Tow

3.73 --- 19200 --- 12900

4.30 --- 22200 --- 15900

I'm not sure what the optional payload option consists of but it looks to only give you 100 pounds on the 250 4x2 SRW.

 

 

Looking at the options list the factory installed hitch is something I'd give a serious look, getting an after-market hitch installed is not fun for most folks.

 

For other truck related weights you want to add in any accessories or options you add to the base truck, any amount you weigh over 150 pounds plus any passenger's weights, the hitch weight and the weight of full fuel tanks. Often it is easy enough to just go get a scale weight and estimate any fuel needed to top off and your planned hitch weight. If you are thinking of cargo in the truck (you will want some) you need to add that in too, things like a BBQ and propane, leveling boards and such or just add in a guesstimate.

 

You will want to be within the rated axle weights on the truck, normally very little is added to the front and almost all goes on the rear axle as does the hitch and any cargo. You'll also want to look at the tow rating for the options you order and the combined weight rating that can usually be found in the manufacturer's towing guide.

 

 

Switching to the trailer, again a real scale weight is best if you don't get a real weight from the factory. Many factory weights in their literature are estimates and may not include options like awnings, air conditioners and such, that can be an unpleasant surprise if you are near your limits. Not much you can do if you can't get a scale weight or find someone with a similar rig that has one when it was empty.

 

For figuring water weight most folks just use the capacity of the fresh tank and ignore the black and gray since you'll normally have the fresh tank full or have moved it to the waste tanks, plus a small amount of outside stuff. It is very rare to have both sets of tanks full other than short trips inside an RV park when you fill the fresh before you dump on your way out of the park.

 

Down the road you may well want to add options to the fiver, a second battery is a common one as is a small generator. Possibilities include a solar setup or a bigger generator and having some cushion in your original planning and estimates can either leave you a bit short or have given you the headroom to add what you want.

 

Most folks underestimate what their stuff will weigh, clothes, pots and pans, food, tools and the like. Again being conservative on your estimates gives you the room to add stuff without pushing your limits. You may well find you like to stock up on regional foods both at home to eat while traveling and while traveling to eat while at home.

 

You have the right idea, planning ahead is going to insure you have a rig you'll be happy with and that it will be safe and pleasant to drive.

[Barbaraok]

Why aren't you looking at a Class A and tow a car behind? If you felt comfortable in a Class C, you'll feel comfortable in a Class A. And I know that I can handle our Class A on my own, including hooking up the car, because Dave's back goes out every once in a while and I have to do the moves on my own.

 

Barb

[Yarome]

Good info all around. When calculating your weights and capacities... instead of looking at your 5er's starting weight, then calculating how much you'll add to it, you might just take your 5er's "dry weight".. add the entire cargo capacity weight rating of your rig (the max you're "capable" of adding), then calculate that figure into your 80% margin of gross max. It adds an additional level of safety and you won't have to be as concerned about calculating weights item by item.

 

As Stan mentioned.. "published" weights are purely academic, but using all max "paper" ratings will give you a more realistic ballpark figure when choosing a 5er and appropriate tow vehicle. You're doing it right though.. crunch your numbers 'then' buy.

 

I can only "second" going with the diesel if it's within your budget. They do cost more up front, but it's one of those 'pay more now' or 'pay much more later' scenarios. In the interim, however, you'll definitely enjoy the ride much more with the diesel option, IMO.

[Mariner]

Just a thought, but why not change your domicile now rather than wait? Vehicle registrations will probably be cheaper than OR., and there's a lot of choices in RV dealers to shop around in the Lone Star state. There are a lot of full time Escapees who are TX. residents.

[Yarome]

Vehicle registrations will probably be cheaper than OR., and there's a lot of choices in RV dealers to shop around in the Lone Star state.

 

Registration is a little less, but Oregon isn't "terrible" ($81 for 10' then $6.75 each additional for 2 years) and no sales tax which more than makes up the difference (6.25% adds up REAL quick). I would buy and register in Oregon, then when your registration is coming due again, register in your new domicile State. JMHO... but that's a whole nuther thread.

[trailertraveler]

...I have been looking at 29’ Keystone Cougar 5th wheel and know what I like and don’t like. It has a GVWR of 10,000-lbs. Figuring in the 127 gallons of fluids (maximum) for gray/black/fresh at 8.35-lbs gives me a total for that of 1060-lbs. So, I have 11,060-lbs in total weight calculated for towing requirements. Is there anything else that I need to take into account if I fill it with the maximum payload allowed?...

Welcome to the Escapees Forum!!!

 

It has always been my understanding that the GVWR of a trailer/5th wheel is the maximum it is designed to carry. That includes all fluids, cargo, etc. So if the 10,000# is really the GVWR not the dry weight or unlaidened weight of the trailer you are looking at; you should use that weight in your calculations for the truck and not plan on loading the trailer beyond 10,000#. 5th wheels can put up to 25% of their GVWR on the truck, so any truck you purchase should have a payload capacity of 2500# plus the weight of all the other items that will be carrying in the truck in excess of a 150# driver. It is not that uncommon for a 5th wheel to put a 3/4 ton truck over its payload capacity, GVWR or rear axle ratings while still being within the Max towing and Gross Combined Weight Ratings. You really need to look at all the numbers, not just one or two. Here is a link to a calculator that may help.

 

Again, Welcome to the Escapees Form!!!

[Kirk W]

Welcome to the Escapee forums. We always enjoy having new folks join in so don't be a stranger here!

 

Reading through things, I'm wondering how much previous experience you have with RV's? Are you shopping for new or used ones? It might be helpful for you to just visit a large RV show and simply look at everything before you make a purchase, if you don't have previous experience just to learn more about what each type of RV has to offer you and what it's weaknesses may be. I'd not be in a rush to buy as there are many choices and each one has both good and bad features and there may be some things that you were not aware of.

[PrescillaM]

Stanley P. Miller,

 

Thank you for your input. And, yes, that was the Ford factory spreadsheet I was looking at when determining the towing capacity. I was trying to stick with gas for gas economy sake but I think going with the diesel F250 4x4 will give me plenty of room for towing capacity.

 

I was considering going with a generator also, and that will add weight too. I will definitely weigh the unit to make sure that I am not overloading it with "stuff". I'd rather give up clothes than give up my pots and pans. I have chosen lighter options in other personal items too.

 

I have not looked into the availability of the truck yet. I imagine that the ones at the dealers do not come with 5th wheel hitches already installed. Looks like I may have to order a truck? Oh well....

 

Thank you again. Much appreciated.
PM

[PrescillaM]

Barbaraok,

 

I have recently started to consider a Class C while towing a car. I felt comfortable driving a 28' Class C RV.

One reason I went with the truck and the 5th wheel RV was because once I finally settle down in TX then I can park the RV and use the truck. I need an SUV or a truck to work if I end up having to. At this point in time I believe I can afford to live in an RV for the rest of my life. The issue is, will I want to. If I go with a Class C and a small towing vehicle, then I would need to sell both of them IF I choose to settle down in a house again. I thought it would be fewer changes for me.

 

The second reason I steered away from a Class C is because there is less storage space for items. But, looking at the larger 30-32' ones, there appears to be nice wardrobe units in them and more kitchen cabinet space.

 

The third consideration was the initial money output. Buying a larger Class C, and investing in a small car. I wouldn't tow the car I have right now.

 

I have been thinking about this for months.

 

Barbaraok, how large is your RV? And, you feel comfortable hooking up your TOAD by yourself? That was my concern. Doing all of it on my own.

 

[Yarome]

the diesel F250 4x4 will give me plenty of room for towing capacity.

 

Just a note: The diesel will give you more towing capacity, but going with a 4x4 will decrease that slightly, as well as your available cargo capacity just as moving from a standard cab to super to crew or short to standard to long box. Anything that adds additional weight to the base model vehicle will decrease max tow and cargo capacities.

[PrescillaM]

Mariner,

 

I am still in Oregon at the moment and if I can avoid paying sales tax on both the RV and the truck, then that is a good chunk of change. I know that when I change to TX I will probably pay some sort of percentage of that sales tax. I have no idea how long one must own the vehicles in order to avoid paying the additional sales tax in TX after having purchased it in another state.

 

I will eventually be using the Escapees mailing service in TX

[Barbaraok]

Barbaraok, how large is your RV? And, you feel comfortable hooking up your TOAD by yourself? That was my concern. Doing all of it on my own.

 

 

Our Class A (not a Class C) is 37 Ft long. It is a diesel pusher. Yes, hooking up the TOAD is on of my jobs. Takes me about 3-4 minutes to do it and it VERY, VERY easy for one person to do. We have an all terrain hitch so it just pull up behind the coach, pull the arms down and insert into their brackets, engage the toad brake system, do the light check, and away we go. I also drive the coach atleast 1/2 of the time. Last fall I drove several days in a row as Dave had torn his rotator cuff and was having shoulder pain (growing old is only for the tough) and it was easier for me to do it. BTW - lots of people tow small pickups behind their coaches.

 

You should look at some of the smaller Class As in the 32-36 feet range.

 

Another thought, when traveling along, if you have a 5er and pull into a rest area, you are going to have get out of your truck to use the bathroom. We pull in, go back and use the bathroom, grab something to drink from the fridge, change drivers, and are on our way. Usually we will do a quick walk around the rig/car, but if the rain is really coming down, we don't have to.

 

Barb

[skp51443]

You need to add one more thing to your checklist if you are looking at the 4x4 trucks, they tend to run taller than 4x2 trucks and getting a fiver that fits one while leaving enough bed to fiver clearance you won't be crunching and bending things in off-level situations is critical. It looks to be about 3 inches taller in 4x4 versus 4x2. The 4x4 option also costs you about 400 pounds in capacity.

 

You can raise the trailer a couple different ways. Flipping the axles to the bottom of the springs is one option which isn't too expensive and if done professionally works fairly well. it does add a bit of instability from the additional height and the change to the leverages in the suspension. The other option costs more but only adds height and that is having the suspension removed from the fiver, spacers added to the frame and the suspension re-attached to the spacers.

 

I don't know about current Ford 4x4s as it has been many years since I owned one but my last one was horrible at pulling my fiver. The height required the suspension modifications to the fiver and the turning radius was TERRIBLE compared to the 4x2 and I found there were many places a 4x2 could easily get to with the fiver attached that the 4x4 just couldn't get into because it was impossible to turn sharp enough. I looked at the Ford charts and unless I'm missing it somewhere they don't give the turning radius, I'd want that number.

 

Unless you really need the 4x4 for non-RV purposes you might consider the 4x2 and see if it wouldn't do for you.

[Kirk W]

I don't know of any trucks which can be outfitted with a fifth wheel hitch as they come from the factory, but you may be able to get one installed by your dealer. If you are looking at new trucks, those can be very expensive and there are some excellent used trucks on the market. I have concluded that a used diesel truck is a better buy for me. What I really wonder is your reasoning for wanting a 4WD truck?

 

Like Barb, we were fulltime in a class A and I do agree with here that it is very easy to hook up a towed vehicle on a tow-bar and in fact consider it much easier to do that to hook up a trailer. Either way, I don't think that you should put too much emphasis on the hitch-up process in making your choice.

[skp51443]

Kirk, check the link here, it looks like Ford now does. Having had hitches fitted to several trucks over the years by after-market installers a factory option sounds really good to me.

http://www.ford.com/trucks/superduty/features/#page=Feature11

With the 5th-Wheel and Gooseneck Hitch Trailer Tow Prep Package, you can use a 5th-wheel hitch or a gooseneck ball to tow the really big loads. This package, available on 6-3/4-ft. and 8-ft. pickup boxes, offers you the strength of a factory-installed 5th wheel and gooseneck substructure attached to the frame and maintains a flat cargo load floor. This patented system is covered by the Ford limited warranty* and is compatible with 5th-Wheel Hitch Kits (18K and 26.5K available) and Gooseneck Hitch Kits offered through the factory and Ford Custom Accessories.

[Kirk W]

Interesting............ Probably way overdue. In looking at the linked site, the hitches are an add-on kit that would seem to be installed by the dealer after the truck arrives at the dealership, but still part of the Ford package. And for only an extra $1690.00! If the others don't offer it, they soon will if Ford shows it to be a high profit item.

[skp51443]

The hitch looks to be dealer installed but the factory prep kit ($370 option) is the interesting part. I edited my previous post to bold that section. Look under the Equipment link here:

 

http://shop.ford.com/build/superduty/#/config/Config%5B%7CFord%7CSuperDuty%7C2016%7C1%7C1.%7C600A.F2A.137....CBC.X37.REC.NFLEET.996.4X2.44P.SRW.XLL.53W.~F-250.%5D

 

On the hitch heads:

 

 

NOTE: This kit is only for use with the production option 5th-Wheel and gooseneck Hitch Prep Package or the Ford Accessory Hitch Prep Package for 5th Wheel/Gooseneck.

 

There is also a lighter hitch also available, rated at 18k for smaller fivers and $1300.00

 

http://accessories.ford.com/exterior/trailer-towing/kit-trailer-hitch-bar-10246.html

 

 

I would suspect you will be able to get other brands of hitch heads to fit the 2016 Ford factory mounting base fairly soon if not already. I found several mentions of them being available from Rese for the 2015 Ford factory prep package.

[PrescillaM]

 

Our Class A (not a Class C) is 37 Ft long. It is a diesel pusher. Yes, hooking up the TOAD is on of my jobs. Takes me about 3-4 minutes to do it and it VERY, VERY easy for one person to do. We have an all terrain hitch so it just pull up behind the coach, pull the arms down and insert into their brackets, engage the toad brake system, do the light check, and away we go. I also drive the coach atleast 1/2 of the time. Last fall I drove several days in a row as Dave had torn his rotator cuff and was having shoulder pain (growing old is only for the tough) and it was easier for me to do it. BTW - lots of people tow small pickups behind their coaches.

 

You should look at some of the smaller Class As in the 32-36 feet range.

 

Another thought, when traveling along, if you have a 5er and pull into a rest area, you are going to have get out of your truck to use the bathroom. We pull in, go back and use the bathroom, grab something to drink from the fridge, change drivers, and are on our way. Usually we will do a quick walk around the rig/car, but if the rain is really coming down, we don't have to.

 

Barb

Thank you Barb.

 

I always thought that hooking up a TOAD and backing up with it would more difficult. I have been doing lots of reading in the past couple of days and am considering going the route of a 30' Class C and TOAD vehicle. Wouldn't I be required to get a different license for a Class A RV whereas with a Class C I wouldn't need to. What are the benefits of a Class A versus Class C?

[PrescillaM]

Thank you Barb.

 

I always thought that hooking up a TOAD and backing up with it would more difficult. I have been doing lots of reading in the past couple of days and am considering going the route of a 30' Class C and TOAD vehicle. Wouldn't I be required to get a different license for a Class A RV whereas with a Class C I wouldn't need to. What are the benefits of a Class A versus Class C?

Lots to think about.

[Barbaraok]

Backing up with a toad isn't difficult - it is a DO NOT DO. You never, ever back up with the toad. If you need to back up, you take 5 minutes, unhook and move car, then back up. Since it is so easy to hook/unhook this really isn't a problem.

 

You only need an enhanced drivers license if the rig is over 26000 lbs. Most gas powered coaches will not weight that much, so a regular license will do it. The thing about the Class A is that you have a better view of the road, you have more storage space underneath and in the 30-35 feet range, I think you will find you are more comfortable. Lots of people do fulltime in Class Cs and as a single it is certainly doable. We had a Class C before we retired (29 ft) and had a lot of fun with it, but there just wasn't enough storage for the two of us fulltiming and i found the overhead bunk really a lot of wasted space.

 

Go to an RV show and spend time (like 20-30 minutes) in each. Pretend to take a shower, sit down on the toilet and close the door - are your knees in your face? Go through the motions. Lots to look at, so take your time.

 

Barb

[PrescillaM]

Backing up with a toad isn't difficult - it is a DO NOT DO. You never, ever back up with the toad. If you need to back up, you take 5 minutes, unhook and move car, then back up. Since it is so easy to hook/unhook this really isn't a problem.

 

You only need an enhanced drivers license if the rig is over 26000 lbs. Most gas powered coaches will not weight that much, so a regular license will do it. The thing about the Class A is that you have a better view of the road, you have more storage space underneath and in the 30-35 feet range, I think you will find you are more comfortable. Lots of people do fulltime in Class Cs and as a single it is certainly doable. We had a Class C before we retired (29 ft) and had a lot of fun with it, but there just wasn't enough storage for the two of us fulltiming and i found the overhead bunk really a lot of wasted space.

 

Go to an RV show and spend time (like 20-30 minutes) in each. Pretend to take a shower, sit down on the toilet and close the door - are your knees in your face? Go through the motions. Lots to look at, so take your time.

 

Barb

Barb, that is what I read....NEVER back up with the Toad. Thank you for your advice.

 

I'm glad to hear that hooking up the toad vehicle isn't that complicated for a single person. I am so looking forward to getting into my RV and getting on the road. Hopefully looking at more RVs will give me a better idea as to which route to go.

 

Thank you again.

PM

[sandsys]

We bought our first toad when I was in my early 60s and I have some disabilities. I was able to hook and unhook our toad by using a portable chair to sit on for parts of the process. And it didn't take long at all. If I can do it, so can you.

 

Having backed a tent trailer years ago I can still say the idea of lining up a 5th wheel hitch terrifies me.

 

Plus, having the ability to stop and use the facilities in a motorhome without having to go outside made me feel safer as I never felt I was advertising whether or not I was traveling alone.

 

I know nothing about Oregon personally but have read they have a "continuous traveler" level of domicile for which only people who have already been living there can qualify. You might want to check on that. You can still use the Escapee's mail service without changing your domicile.

 

Linda Sand

[PrescillaM]

We bought our first toad when I was in my early 60s and I have some disabilities. I was able to hook and unhook our toad by using a portable chair to sit on for parts of the process. And it didn't take long at all. If I can do it, so can you.

 

Having backed a tent trailer years ago I can still say the idea of lining up a 5th wheel hitch terrifies me.

 

Plus, having the ability to stop and use the facilities in a motorhome without having to go outside made me feel safer as I never felt I was advertising whether or not I was traveling alone.

 

I know nothing about Oregon personally but have read they have a "continuous traveler" level of domicile for which only people who have already been living there can qualify. You might want to check on that. You can still use the Escapee's mail service without changing your domicile.

 

Linda Sand

Linda,

 

After thinking about it, and reading up on the 5th wheels, I am steering toward going with the Class A/C option and a toad. I know this is deviating from my original question.

 

As for Oregon, I have lived here for 10 years and when I bought my last vehicle I actually had to show not only my drivers license but my electric bill to show that I was a current resident in order to be able to not pay the sales tax. My only concern about maintaining residency in OR is don't I have to have a "physical" address in order to avoid insurance issues? On one forum, I can't remember where, I read that sometimes people can get into trouble with insurance coverage on their RV if they do not have a physical address. That is why the Escapees mail service offers them in TX. I do have my son's physical address in TX that I can use. For now I will keep my domicile in OR as long as my husband is still in the house. When he sells it, which he will need to, then I will have to have a physical address and that will more than likely be in TX. I am trying to cover all the bases in the RV lifestyle. Plus.....adjusting to having to take care of all of these issues that my husband was taking care of. It can all be a bit overwhelming. I like to be thorough and am hopefully not missing anything.

 

thank you again for letting me know how easy it can be to hook up a toad. Having the facilities inside is definitely a plus, especially as I get older and when the need arises, it is do it now!!

 

PM

[Kirk W]

I always thought that hooking up a TOAD and backing up with it would more difficult. I have been doing lots of reading in the past couple of days and am considering going the route of a 30' Class C and TOAD vehicle. Wouldn't I be required to get a different license for a Class A RV whereas with a Class C I wouldn't need to. What are the benefits of a Class A versus Class C?

Hooking up the vehicle to be towed is no big deal with modern tow bars that have collapsible arms allowing you to just pull close and adjust the arms to connect and the the arms lock as you pull away. But you do not back with a vehicle in tow on a tow-bar, but that is a very minor issue and of very little problem. You really don't want to be backing any RV as a matter of routine except into a campsite.

 

There is special licensing needed to drive a class A or class C. They drive pretty much the same if the two are of the same length. There are some states that require special licensing for driving the heaviest of RVs but that includes fifth wheels in those states as well and it is only the heaviest ones and the size you have been speaking of is not heavy enough to require one, even in those states.

 

Benefit of a class A, over a class C is in cargo carrying ability both in storage space and in weight capacity. Having driven both, I consider the A easier because it has much better visibility .