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Truck won't start (Volvo D12)


oletimer

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Maybe we should have stayed in Kansas this winter! Just joking.

We pulled in at SKP Resort in Wachula, Fl.for a short stay, and to fix some issues with our new 2016 5th. That was over 2 weeks ago, and while we're still working on the trailer, we was asked this AM if we could move the Volvo so they could mow. Sure!!!

Jumped in and while the computer was firing up, I noticed a faint clicking sound coming from one of the relays. Truck won't start. Checked the clicking relay (R4 Engine management system power), then changed it, but still no luck. I didn't even get an error code until I tried to start the truck about 5-6 times, then got J1587 Communication Error with Engine ECU. That don't sound good, so I now try to disconnect the batteries for a reboot, and try again. Any thoughts from you guys that know a lot more than me? That has to include just about everyone. Thanks, Dick T

2006 Volvo VNL 630(VED12 400HP)
10 speed autoshift,3.58 gear 236" twin screw, w/ET, Jackalopee, Blue Dot
2016 Space Craft 37'

Blu/Dot, Dexter 8K triple axel, HD Drum hydraulic brakes

Feather lite air ride
2005 Jeep Rubicon
2007 Suzuki DR 650

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Dumb question but did you check to see if it was in Neutral?

 

Our Freightliner sounds like that if I try to start up in gear.

 

Dave

2005 Freightliner Century S/T, Singled, Air ride ET Jr. hitch
2019 46'+ Dune Sport Man Cave custom 5th wheel toy hauler
Owner of the 1978 Custom Van "Star Dreamer" which might be seen at a local car show near you!

 

Check out http://www.hhrvresource.com/

for much more info on HDT's.

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Disconnect batteries for a good long time.

Check battery connection and fuse (i think) in battery box to ECU if blown or corroded.

Check ground cable. (of course)

Unplug and re-plug ECU connection on firewall under hood below brake valve manifold.

Starter motor connections corroded or loose?

 

That's all I could think to do before calling for service.

Could be as simple as an ignition switch or as complicated as ???

"There are No Experts, Do the Math!"

2014 Freightliner Cascadia DD16 600hp  1850ft-lb  18spd  3.31  260"wb
SpaceCraft S-470
SKP #131740

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When you say clicking do you mean on and off or just a click when trying to start? It should "click" ONCE and stay latched when trying to start.

R4's coil and contacts are fed directly from the battery via the fuse in/near the battery. The relay is energized by grounding the other side of the coil thru the VECU.

The contacts supply 12VDC to the fuses 79, 80, 81 & 82 (these numbers may be different) which go to the trans, back to the VECU and a few other places.

 

I think the Comm Error is because the VECU is not getting power and not really a comm problem. Are there any other codes?

Ray & Deb - Shelbi the Aussie & Lexington the cat
2004 Volvo 630 500HP ISX "Bertha D" - 10 Speed-MaxBrake -ET hitch.SOLD
2009 Designer 35RLSA SOLD
Fulltiming since '07 - stopped 2016

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Sorry I'm so long getting back, but I was called away. But I did go through the reboot (unhooking batteries), cleaned connections, checked fuses, and all looked good. I then removed, and reinstalled the fuses, and all is GOOD!! The humidity here is running about 90-98% every night, and I guess that is what caused the poor connection on one of the blade fuses in the battery box. I haven't treated them for a couple years, so now I will. I carry some anticorrosion spray with me but I guess I got a little careless in maintaining them. Maybe a little Vaseline would work better, because there was no corrosion. I thought our humidity in Kansas was bad, and it is, but not EVERY day and night. Thanks for the comments. Dick T

2006 Volvo VNL 630(VED12 400HP)
10 speed autoshift,3.58 gear 236" twin screw, w/ET, Jackalopee, Blue Dot
2016 Space Craft 37'

Blu/Dot, Dexter 8K triple axel, HD Drum hydraulic brakes

Feather lite air ride
2005 Jeep Rubicon
2007 Suzuki DR 650

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Oletimer, good news on the simple fix.

I am surprised that the park you are in allows you to park the truck on your site.

Are you on a site, or in the dry-camp area?

 

 

Rick

1998 VOLVO 610 VED-12 @ 425 HP with 13 speed, 22.5" rubber, TC Equipped, single 3.70 drive axle, 193'' WB. REESE, 30K 4 way rocker-hitch, Jordan Ultima 2020. Under-frame mounted Honda 3000 ei, Towing a DRV MobileSuites- 36TK3 with TrailAir Pin Box, a Yamaha Road Star 1700 on deck. http://diesel-gypsy.blogspot.com

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We are in a park in West Sacramento. They told me I would not be able to keep the truck there. I then told them it was registered as an RV. She said she would have to email the owner and let me know. That was a month ago. Still sitting there.

Ron C.

2013 Dynamax Trilogy 3850 D3

2000 Kenworth T2000 Optimus Prime

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Oletimer, good news on the simple fix.

I am surprised that the park you are in allows you to park the truck on your site.

Are you on a site, or in the dry-camp area?

 

 

Rick

Rick,

No, the truck is in the storage area. I'm having some issues with the new 5th though, and all my tools are in the truck, so it seems like I have worn a path back and forth even though the path is asphalt. We are in an Escapees park (SKP Resort) in Wachula, Florida for the first time, and I'll say this, both the park, and the folks here have been great. Many offers of help, and local information. Just like most of the other Escapees parks we have visited. Can't remember when we joined Escapees for sure somewhere around 92 or 93, and it has changed some, but I don't know where I would rather be when having trouble.

Not a sermon, but just a word of thanks, that includes the people in the parks, and on the forums as well. Dick T

2006 Volvo VNL 630(VED12 400HP)
10 speed autoshift,3.58 gear 236" twin screw, w/ET, Jackalopee, Blue Dot
2016 Space Craft 37'

Blu/Dot, Dexter 8K triple axel, HD Drum hydraulic brakes

Feather lite air ride
2005 Jeep Rubicon
2007 Suzuki DR 650

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Dick, you are doing well as that particular park has not always been kind to HDT'ers, myself included.

I am glad for you your experience has been so positive.

 

Rick

1998 VOLVO 610 VED-12 @ 425 HP with 13 speed, 22.5" rubber, TC Equipped, single 3.70 drive axle, 193'' WB. REESE, 30K 4 way rocker-hitch, Jordan Ultima 2020. Under-frame mounted Honda 3000 ei, Towing a DRV MobileSuites- 36TK3 with TrailAir Pin Box, a Yamaha Road Star 1700 on deck. http://diesel-gypsy.blogspot.com

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Sorry I'm so long getting back, but I was called away. But I did go through the reboot (unhooking batteries), cleaned connections, checked fuses, and all looked good. I then removed, and reinstalled the fuses, and all is GOOD!! The humidity here is running about 90-98% every night, and I guess that is what caused the poor connection on one of the blade fuses in the battery box. I haven't treated them for a couple years, so now I will. I carry some anticorrosion spray with me but I guess I got a little careless in maintaining them. Maybe a little Vaseline would work better, because there was no corrosion. I thought our humidity in Kansas was bad, and it is, but not EVERY day and night. Thanks for the comments. Dick T

I wouldn't use Vaseline.......

Previously a 2017 Forest River, Berkshire 38A, "The Dragonship". https://dragonship.blog/

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When you say clicking do you mean on and off or just a click when trying to start? It should "click" ONCE and stay latched when trying to start.

R4's coil and contacts are fed directly from the battery via the fuse in/near the battery. The relay is energized by grounding the other side of the coil thru the VECU.

The contacts supply 12VDC to the fuses 79, 80, 81 & 82 (these numbers may be different) which go to the trans, back to the VECU and a few other places.

 

I think the Comm Error is because the VECU is not getting power and not really a comm problem. Are there any other codes?

Ray,

I think you hit the nail on the head!! After my post, I replaced the fuse by the battery, and things worked great. Only for a while. Now, same problem. Relay keeps trying, but loss connection, no other codes. Fuse 79, 80, 81 dead, in fact that section in the fuse block has no power. Not sure where to look next, I don't even know what or where an R4 coil is. Was to hit the road tomorrow, and will be in the Jeep today. Not sure if there is a Volvo dealer in the Everglades, and that's where we are now. I'll check later for any suggestions, and magic cures from anyone. Thanks much. Dick T

2006 Volvo VNL 630(VED12 400HP)
10 speed autoshift,3.58 gear 236" twin screw, w/ET, Jackalopee, Blue Dot
2016 Space Craft 37'

Blu/Dot, Dexter 8K triple axel, HD Drum hydraulic brakes

Feather lite air ride
2005 Jeep Rubicon
2007 Suzuki DR 650

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Ray,

I think you hit the nail on the head!! After my post, I replaced the fuse by the battery, and things worked great. Only for a while. Now, same problem. Relay keeps trying, but loss connection, no other codes. Fuse 79, 80, 81 dead, in fact that section in the fuse block has no power. Not sure where to look next, I don't even know what or where an R4 coil is. Was to hit the road tomorrow, and will be in the Jeep today. Not sure if there is a Volvo dealer in the Everglades, and that's where we are now. I'll check later for any suggestions, and magic cures from anyone. Thanks much. Dick T

Sent text for your email for some diagrams. Can't attach to Escapees reply.

Ray & Deb - Shelbi the Aussie & Lexington the cat
2004 Volvo 630 500HP ISX "Bertha D" - 10 Speed-MaxBrake -ET hitch.SOLD
2009 Designer 35RLSA SOLD
Fulltiming since '07 - stopped 2016

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Ray,

Just got home, but didn't receive an email, so sent you another message. My batteries are not real old (3-3 1/2 years) and have never been discharged, but I know with all the high power electronics they need to be in top shape. Mine are showing 12.4 VDC. Maybe in the morning I give them a boost and see, what do you think? Thanks

2006 Volvo VNL 630(VED12 400HP)
10 speed autoshift,3.58 gear 236" twin screw, w/ET, Jackalopee, Blue Dot
2016 Space Craft 37'

Blu/Dot, Dexter 8K triple axel, HD Drum hydraulic brakes

Feather lite air ride
2005 Jeep Rubicon
2007 Suzuki DR 650

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R4. - relay 4 center dashboard with all the fuses.

Thanks Bill,

I guess this kinda' tells my age. R4=Relay 4. I can't even read some of the emails my wife get from the grandkids. 4 U= for you, FYI=for your information, etc. I still think BC= before Christ, instead of because. Oh well, lol. "BTW", that's the relay that keeps clicking. Tomorrow morning I will clean more connections, super charge the batteries, and hope I get this sucker going. Heading up to Port St. Lucie, to get an upgrade on the ET, then head for the desert. Dick T

2006 Volvo VNL 630(VED12 400HP)
10 speed autoshift,3.58 gear 236" twin screw, w/ET, Jackalopee, Blue Dot
2016 Space Craft 37'

Blu/Dot, Dexter 8K triple axel, HD Drum hydraulic brakes

Feather lite air ride
2005 Jeep Rubicon
2007 Suzuki DR 650

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Dick I copied this to the forum so others can comment/help also. I converted the PDF to a JPG and (hopefully) posted below.

 

" Your email w/attachments came through last night, but let me make something clear. I'm a moron!! I had sometime earlier downloaded the Volvo manual with this on it, but didn't have the brains to look it up, or to know for sure how to read it. Also, understand, I do not mean to preach a sermon, but I do believe in Devine Intervention, and it might sometime come in the way of someone named Ray. Thanks so much for the attachments, but more than that, the notes. Now this morning I will fire up the generator and charge the batteries, because they are at 12.4V, clean some more connections, then give it a shot. After some thought, I remembered this did happen once before about a year or so ago, and I replace the relay(R4) because it was repeatedly clicking just like this time. It fired right up. I then reinstalled the old relay, and it still fired, and has never happed again, until recently.

The other day, after the truck setting for about 2 1/2 weeks with 90-98% humidity no start, relay clicking, I replaced the fuse near the battery, and all was well. After a few starts, it happened again so I treated the fuse blades with dielectric grease, and it was fine. Now, a couple questions, if you don't mind, and I think the HDT website is having some problems this AM, so the email.

 

#1. Do you think the 12.4v is too low, the batteries(3) are about 4 1/2 years old, but never been discharged.

#2. Am I reading you correct when you talk about the jumper wire, that I could maybe jump the relay, and that might charge the F81 circuit, then the truck might start? While doing that, do I remove the R4, or just lift it a bit and jump the blades? Sure don't want to fry anything.

We are down in the Everglades National Park, and I think the nearest Volvo dealer would probably be Miami.

Thanks Ray, for all your help."

 

[/url]">http://http://s1069.photobucket.com/user/27427532/media/PV776-20018063e.jpg.html'>PV776-20018063e.jpg

 

To answer your latest questions:

- 12.4 v should be OK to start the truck and energize the circuit in question.

- You should be able to remove R4 and jumper from 30 to 87 (not 87A) and get power to the F81 and thus the VECU and start the truck. This is assuming the problem is between R4 and the battery OR R4 and the VECU.

- When you say you hear R4 click does it click just ONCE when the key is on or does it click on/off with the key on?

 

DO YOU HAVE A METER?

Need to check some things first. During these checks anything less than battery voltage (12.4v) could be a bad connection somewhere.

1- You said the battery voltage is 12.4

2- Is there 12.4 between ground and R4 pin 30 with R4 installed key off

3- Is there 12.4 between ground and R4 pin 86 with R4 installed key off

4- Is there 12.4 between ground and R4 pin 85 with R4 installed key off

5- Between R4 pin 85 and ground you should get 0-1v with the key on (engine stopped) and relay should click.

6- If the relay "clicks" and stays energized you should get 12.4v between ground and R4 pin 87. This should also provide 12.4v to F81 (and F79, F80, F82)

 

This should keep you busy for a bit and hopefully reveal the problem. If not we'll have to dig deeper.

 

I don't know how the VECU is programmed so have to make some assumptions based on the inputs and outputs.

The key switch is connected to the VECU

The VECU grounds one side of the relay R4 coil to energize it and provide 12v to the fuses

F81 supplies12v back to the VECU probably as a verification that R4 is energized.

Ray & Deb - Shelbi the Aussie & Lexington the cat
2004 Volvo 630 500HP ISX "Bertha D" - 10 Speed-MaxBrake -ET hitch.SOLD
2009 Designer 35RLSA SOLD
Fulltiming since '07 - stopped 2016

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Ray,

Early this AM, I charged the batteries, in the truck only to find the batteries in my volt meter was down, so all I had was a test light. I had no juice at the #30 pin under the R4. So I checked the fuses with the light again, then again, and they were OK. That is until any draw was put on them. I started cutting zip ties chasing wires, had Susan turn the key on a couple times as every time the key was turned on I heard a faint noise. Finally found a butt connection with very little corrosion, but it was enough. Now up and going, thanks to all for the help.

Tomorrow we will be heading toward Port St. Lucie, for an ET upgrade, that is, if the truck starts. I've only tried it about 10-20 times already.

 

Thanks everyone, Dick T

2006 Volvo VNL 630(VED12 400HP)
10 speed autoshift,3.58 gear 236" twin screw, w/ET, Jackalopee, Blue Dot
2016 Space Craft 37'

Blu/Dot, Dexter 8K triple axel, HD Drum hydraulic brakes

Feather lite air ride
2005 Jeep Rubicon
2007 Suzuki DR 650

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