Dutch_12078

Thanks for the head up, Dan! Apparently the PHMSA is way behind in updating their literature that still states the 10 year rule.

DOT has no authority over the permanently installed propane tanks in our motorhomes. Those tanks are controlled by the standards set by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME). Only the portable cylinders typically used in towable RV's come under the DOT's Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration (PHMSA).

The 12 year rule was changed to 10 years a few years ago: "Propane cylinders must be requalified or replaced every 5 or 10 years depending on the cylinder type, condition, and previous requalification method. (Ref. 49 CFR § 180.205(d) and 180.209(e).)" https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/sites/phmsa.dot.gov/files/docs/propane_en_v3.pdf

The LP distributor I use for recerts in upstate NY charges $15 for a 5 year visual recert, and $35 for a 10 year pressure test recert.

That was reduced to 10 years a few years back...

The OPD limits the fill to 80% of the water capacity. A typical 20 lb "BBQ" cylinder holds about 5.7 gallons of water (47.6 lbs). 80% of that is about 4.5 gallons or about 20 lbs of propane...

On further thought, it occurs to me you're asking the wrong question. The RVIA has adopted NFPA 1192 as its standard, so the question should be which states have also adopted 1192 as their standard. Here's a link to a good start for your research: https://www.google.com/search?q=which+states+have+adopted+nfpa+1192

None that I'm aware of, and I have no idea why they would feel the need to do so unless they could use it as a revenue source. I'll bet the state seals issued by NE and WA aren't free.

Kirk, maybe this article will answer your question at least in part: RV Industry Association State Team Lays Out Policy Priorities For 2022 https://www.rvia.org/news-insights/rv-industry-association-state-team-lays-out-policy-priorities-2022

The most accurate fill is done using the Fixed Liquid Level Gauge, but not all states require it. When the FLLG is correctly used, you know that tank or cylinder is properly filled to the 80% of capacity level with no dependence on scale accuracy. I don't recall using any LP filling station that had a certified scale.

For those not familiar with the area, Red Oaks is about 5.5 air miles from the SKP Sumter Oaks park.

Yes, that first quote is just plain wrong. The 80% is based on the water capacity of the tank or cylinder.

Propane cylinders CAN be filled to their rated capacity that's 80% of the water capacity. The point though, is that Blue Rhino and other exchange companies are only filling 20 lb (4.86 gallon) capacity cylinders to 15 lbs (3.65 gallons). Blue Rhino does make that clear on their labels now, but as I recall it took a lawsuit to force that. The most accurate way to fill an LP tank or cylinder is using the Fixed Liquid Level Gauge, commonly called the "vent" or "spitter valve". The FLLG gives a positive indication that the liquid level has reached the 80% level. The OPD, the Overfill Prevention Device, will also shut off the fill flow at 80%, but should only be considered as a backup to the FLLG or filling by weight.

Thanks, I understand there's a number of power outages in Sumter County according to a friend in The Villages, so that may be affecting the Sumter Oaks folks.

That's good news for The Resort, but unfortunate for the others. Thanks for the update!

Thanks! That's good news! I knew the area was out of the direct path, but I wasn't sure how much wind and rain they would get. Our travel schedule for this winter didn't allow for a stop there, but we've always enjoyed the area when we do get to spend some time there.

Has anyone heard anything from folks at Sumter Oaks about the park status after Ian passed by?

Blue Rhino dropped the amount of LP in their exchange cylinders from 17 pounds to 15 pounds in 2008. https://bluerhino.com/propane-info/faqs/buying-blue-rhino-tanks-faqs/how-much-propane-does-blue-rhino-put-in-its-tanks

The manufacturers are claiming the unit meets the minimum requirements called for in the standards when they apply the sticker. Is that "perfection"? Nope, we all know better than that...

The claim was that lowering the quantity let them hold the keep the price down despite rising propane costs. That's been a common practice with a lot of products in recent years.

As I noted before, NFPA 1192 includes a number of other standards by reference, including the NEC and various other ANSI, UL, etc. standards. As said, many NFPA standards are available for free reading on their website.

As of Oct 1st, Canada is dropping all COVID related travel restrictions. https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/news/2022/09/government-of-canada-to-remove-covid-19-border-and-travel-measures-effective-october-1.html

The RVIA is either using the NFPA 1192 standard as they say they are or they're not. Do you have evidence that they're not and are using their own lesser standards instead? Whether the members are following 1192 as closely as they ought to is a different issue. Obviously the RVIA inspectors cannot verify every unit rolling out the factory doors.

"In my observation, one of the main efforts is to prevent government regulation and safety standards by having their own standards and tightening them just enough to avoid real regulation by folks like the federal highway safety agency." (emphasis added) The RVIA does not make up their own standards, they use industry accepted standards as they've made quite clear.

What do you suggest as an alternative term?