Ramp door builders

[lappir]

Or insulated door builders. 

I've had issues with condensation at my rear "Garage" door since I got the trailer. At the HDT Rally this year when loading I found a problem that will have to be fixed. The condensation formed on the metal that wraps around the door from the outside to inside has caused the floor to rot out in the center at least. We will find out exactly what else has been damaged when the rear cap is removed. 

I stopped by and discussed the replacement and was told the only solution is a Ramp door that will have to be ordered. We discussed the issue of the metal from inside to outside needs to be eliminated and have a plan to put a second seal inside. I also found out the door I assumed was insulated is only a piece of 3/4 plywood covered. Not at all happy about that. 

So before I send in the measurements to have the door made, I'd like to see if anyone has suggestions before I pay to have the door made. Seems like you have to do this for everything now. 

 

Rod

[Wrknrvr]

   Do you heat that area.

 

  Is there any air infiltration around the door. With just a small air leak coming into the heated, moist air can cause condensation on a cold surface.

 

    I have corner of a bedroom slide that had a moisture problem back in 2016. So I fixed what I thought was the water leak.  I do inspect my roof twice a year.

 

  Well last winter in South Carolina, that moisture appeared again. Not much, still there. It was cold and damp in South Carolina last winter.

 

 It dried out over the summer.    But it has been back for sometime since it got cold in Montana. I made sure that the roof of the slide does not have a leak. Installed a leakproof cover over the slide. Still getting damp. One day when it was cold and raining out side, I noticed moisture running down from the window frame on the interior at that corner.

 

   Yesterday I wrapped the corner of the slide with 1” of foam wrap. And 1 1/2” foam insulation under that corner.    This is for a test, to see if the interior corner is cold enough to draw moisture out of the air.

   I am thinking what you could do to solve your situation. Others must have experienced this also.

 

    Vern

 

[Chalkie]

Speaking from a past life in the building trades and observation of the toyhauler ramps I am not sure you will be able to totally eliminate the problem. Aluminum windows used to sweat like crazy in cold weather until some bright person created a window with a thermal break. Basically it was a piece of vinyl that separated the inside and outside parts of the frame so cold could not transfer from out to in. That same idea was tried on metal framed doors that were required for fire doors. Two problems came with that, one, in a fire that vinyl will melt potentially allowing the door to fail, and two, where windows are not load bearing in the same way a door is, it did not make for a very strong door. 

I just don't see how you could achieve that thermal break on a ramp without compromising the strength of the ramp. I think, as Vern has suggested, your best bet is going to be to insulate as best you can and eliminate air infiltration around it. Then inspect it more often. Also, I am not sure if you could specify the ramp core material, but if you can, specify pressure treated plywood certified for ground contact. 

[Wrknrvr]

   This is just a thought.

  If your existing door is good, as in structurally sound.

    Glue 1 1/2” good quality insulation to the outside. There are 4’ x8’ panels of gel coated fiberglass available. Adhere that to the insulation. Then continue the fiberglass out past the door seals. I am thinking of how a pickup bed cover seals to the bed. Have the edge sealed to the existing wall panel.

 

  That would take some thinking how to accomplish it. But I think it could be done.

    I took a fiberglass truck cover, that had a problem on a corner, cut it into pieces and made a cover for my generator.

    Just thinking,    Vern

[lappir]

Thanks for the replies. 

Yes the Garage is heated. In fact the main Mini Split system is just above the door with the inside air intake there too. 

When I planned to build I wanted a "FULL 4 Season" home and was assured they would build me one. Over time I've determined that was not the case. Just a few days after picking it up I was exposed to some chilly temps and had to return the trailer for the install of a propane furnace. I was assured the HVAC system they installed was "sized for the upper Midwest." and would just me less efficient during temperature extremes. I soon realized less efficient really meant it wouldn't work. 

Other things have happened over the years, but finding out the door to the garage was just covered plywood has really floored me. 

I won't be using the door as a true ramp. I may consider using it as an outside elevated patio, but will not drive on it. I will continue to use ramps. I just want a better door.  The opening isn't all that big. I have to be very careful not to knock off a side mirror when entering and exiting the space. I need to measure it so I will do that now. 

Left side of door facing it from the inside measures 77 3/16 tall.

Right side same place measures  77 5/16 tall

Top of door across measures 87 7/8

Bottom measures 81. Measurements all in inches. 

I've never felt air come through. there is a good rubber seal around the entire door. Today I did see a bit of light in the bottom left corner when placing the tape measure. Haven't noticed that before. It continues to be damp at the area where the doors come together. I have my Dehumidifier and "Amish" electric heater in that area to try and keep things dry. May need to add a fan. 

The winter in Oklahoma has been very mild. It's only gotten to the teens a couple days. There still is the worst of winter ahead of me though. (Maybe). 

As far as "Sealing". I bought some 2inch Styrofoam and completely closed off the door area several years ago when I wintered in Tallahassee FL. I'm not sure if it helped. At that time I still had the older HVAC system and was keeping the set temperature low enough to keep the propane furnace from firing up as much as possible. If you haven't realized I really dislike the RV Propane furnaces. 

Now that I know the door has no insulation properties I think I will rebuild the enclosure to the door area on the inside. It can't hurt anything. I'll also use some of the insulation to provide a wind break under the front area of my home where the water tank is. Last year I used a  couple of "Tractor Inner Tubes". I was on a nice concrete slab and could slide them under partially inflated and then finish the inflation to hold them in place. I think it helped a bit, but they covered a smaller area than I expected. (I borrowed them from the "Tire Shop"),  but didn't unfold them until I was ready to place them. One was much smaller than the other. (Not in marked boxes so who knew what size they were.) I'd planned on getting more this year, but I'm on a small sharp gravel site and while I think it would be OK since they wouldn't move a lot. I actually forgot to get them when I visited earlier this month. May visit a shop in the local area and get a used one, fill it with water and then let it freeze. 

Vern, the last suggestion probably won't work by doing anything to the outside. I still have to load the Jeep for my trip to the Factory for the repair. Gluing stuff to the outside has not worked well for me already. 

Rod

[aknavy]

Lot of videos on the subject.  Some have built an aluminum square tube frame and put aluminum sheet on both sides, then glued the existing fiberglass to the outer wall and non skid on the inner door, with rigid insulation in the middle.  It appears to be sturdier, and who cares if there is condensation, as the door is primarily aluminum.  I have a door that is beginning to fail, and if I have access to the right tools/shop when I decide to address it, I may go this route.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=youtube+rebuild+toy+hauler+ramp

 

[Wrknrvr]

   On your inner tube idea, never thought or heard about that before, but that is interesting.

   If you had say 1 1/2” or 2” styrofoam sheet to put between the underbelly and the tubes, that would help.

   While you’re thinking of insulating the door, I think if there is still moisture inside of the door.  Coming in somewhere, As in enough to add moisture to condense?     You still may be adding to the  rotted floor.

 

   If you get a chance, could we see a picture of the rear door.

 

   Is the moisture on the door itself, or is the moisture on the door frame. Or both.

 

  If it is on the door frame, could a heat strip be added, to control moisture. On residential refrigerators, there is a built in heating strip where the doors seal? To control moisture.

   Trying to cover different thoughts.

 

  Still working on my moisture situation in the bedroom slide.   In 24 hrs the  corner has risen 9 degrees.   And the moisture seems to be clearing up. But time will tell.

[Wrknrvr]

  We could use a picture of the interior , showing the air intake for the mini split.

    I have a idea, but i need a picture for future thoughts.

[lappir]

Took me a bit, but here they are Vern. 

 

Rod

[Wrknrvr]

   Couple questions need addressed.

   Is there moisture on the interior of the doors when closed and sitting for for a few days.   This is probably dependent on outside temperature and outside humidity level.    Also is the moisture on just the metal, or is it on the panel also.    This can also be determined by inside temperatures also. I use a inferred thermometer for this test. If it gets real technical, then good restaurant thermometer needs to be used.

 

   How good are the seals on the doors.    When I became a Dometic dealer, I found out about the bill test.   When the doors are closed, does the seal grip a paper bill.  All areas need checked.

    On the heat pump grill, does it have intake and exhaust.    That could give a idea for use. Thinking about that.

     If you look for gutter heaters, or something like that they do make heat strips to keep gutters from freezing.  I use one that was left over from a old business I had years ago for my water line.    This needs some thinking on how to use one if needed. I was thinking one of the heat strips could be hidden under metal conduit for electrical wiring. Not under the door frame. They use low wattage for the system per foot.

    I am thinking, could that idea be installed on the inside of the aluminum door frame. You would see it.  It just paint it to match.

   On the idea of heat strips, they can be made to the required length.

   

   The other question is, can the lower floor aluminum piece that the Ramps lay on, be removed separately from the sides.

   Just thinking of simple ideas to help with the situation.

 

 

    Vern

Edited December 20, 2023 by Wrknrvr

[lappir]

Vern, 

I guess the reason for the post was really to find more information on who might build a door. That's going to be the final fix. When a real cold air mass is eminent I will head to the building supply location that is closest to me and pick up the needed foam insulation. It took me a couple hours the last time I did it and I hope it will take less time this go around. 

I haven't researched a source of tractor tire tubes in my area, but I do know new ones certainly are not inexpensive. $100 is on the low side for the 42 inchers if my memory serves me. Hopefully there are a few farmers in the area replacing tires that had tubes in them and are wanting to go tubeless at least for a while. There was a whole pile of them in Iowa, but they were outside, wet and dirty. Didn't want to throw them in the back of the Jeep for the trip back south. Should have remembered when I had the trailer up there and I could have found a space for a few. 

Thanks again for your ideas and comments. 

Rod

[Wrknrvr]

    Could give up 2” of space on the interior of the doors.   I was thinking you rear was a door as is tilting down. Now that I see them both opening, that gives other thoughts.

 

   This is a temperature sensing photo from our freezer compartment with the door open.    Green, yellow and blue are cold colors,  red is room temperature.

 

   If you could give up 2” on the interior of the doors, that would solve, say 25 percent of your problem? That is just a guess.

    I think that if there is no air leakage, leaving cold moist air in,?

 

  The greater problem could be the cold transferring through the aluminum door frame, door hinge bolts to a much smaller degree and any metal that could transfer cold into the interior.

   If you could give up 2” on the interior of the doors, insulate them with styrofoam, cover with Formica, that would give a strong covering or it looks like there is Fillon on the original doors. That word is probably misspelled. Or not the correct word.

 

     Just some thinking.  If you could take a temperature sensing photo of the area, that may help understand where the problem is.

 

[palmeris]

Maybe check the commercial  AC refrigeration companies that do construction . One of our customers has cold docks, storage, etc for fresh meat and fish deliveries and they have built all kinds of insulated doors, slider panels, walls, etc. maybe you can find one near your location and give them some specs on what you want? Just a thought

[Kymber]

Going for a ramp door sounds like a good call. Adding that second seal could be a game-changer. Sucks finding out the supposed insulated door is just plywood – been there! Before you pull the trigger on measurements, maybe check if anyone's got some DIY fixes or insider tips.

[lappir]

Thanks everyone for the comments.

 

It's going to be cold here this weekend, but looks like only a couple days of single digits and then it's above "Freezing" during the days at least. I've filled the fresh water tank, emptied the waste water and exercised the generator with a full propane tank attached. I used it last spring during some really cold weather when I didn't have a place to plug into a 50 amp source and it would only run for about 15 minutes and then shut off using the small propane tank. Not sure how full that tank was, but when I filled it up with Gasoline it never shut off. Hope I don't need to run it, but I think I'll hang a heat lamp above the tank and see if that works to keep it running longer, especially since I know the tank is full. 

I have yet to start looking at commercial companies, but I will. 

 

Rod

 

Rod