iPad and Surface Pro discussion

[Ron]

Some very nice info on Apple vs. Microsoft products and those companies' strategies in the linked article. May help those in the market for such a device make a decision as to which one best meets their needs. I have no axe to grind - I don't own either of them. For our needs the combination of a MacBook Pro for home use and an iPhone 6 for mobile use seems optimum for our needs. Also note there are many comments following the article that challenge the author's position and some that expand on his positions.

 

http://seekingalpha.com/article/3830206-apple-ipad-pro-may-halt-sales-decline-future

 

---ron

[Jack Mayer]

While that article is somewhat interesting it requires registering to complete reading it. And that site WILL sell your details and send you stuff, in my experience.

[RV_]

Jack,

I read the whole article as I joined Seeking Alpha years ago. That article was riddled with correlational errors and misinformation. He completely misunderstands what is what in the Windows tablet and desktop world.

 

I am going to post this comment there under the article. My comment under the original article in the comments section is essentially the same as below with some added editing. My name on Seeking Alpha is "AreV."

 

Mr. Hibbin,

Your article excerpts are bold and italicized.

 

“Intel had set for itself the goal of selling at least 10 million tablet processors per quarter. By the end of 2014, Intel had shipped 46 million tablet processors and lost about $4 billion doing so. Intel virtually gave away the 46 million processors, which was 1/5th of the total tablets shipped globally in 2014, according to http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS25409815 .”

That article is a year old! There was no Windows 10 then, and the article said no such thing about Intel Atom SoCs being given away. It never mentioned the price of Intel SoCs for the MS tablets. Please point me to the sentence where it does. It referenced how low priced Android tablets were failing to gain much.

 

“These were a much higher class of tablet. Whereas Android tablets often feel like mere upscaled smartphones, the Microsoft Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book run full versions of Windows 10. And while the Atom tablets often feel underpowered, Microsoft's devices were powered by full-fledged Core-series processors. The competition offered by the Microsoft devices (and similar devices by HP (NYSE:HPQ), Dell, Lenovo (OTCPK:LNVGY), etc.) was all the more potent for not being cheap, low-end devices.”

 

Apparently you've not heard about the Microsoft device called the Surface 3. It is an Atom device, and a Microsoft device. Microsoft's devices were either the ARM processor Windows RT which failed and was only on the now discontinued Microsoft Surface and Surface 2 tablets, or the Pro tablets with core x86 processors only for the duration of the sales of the Surface and Surface 2, both ARM architecture and a cell phone OS - RT . Much like Apple's iOS, Windows RT was for ARM processors which cannot handle Windows 7. 8/8.1/10. The new Surface 3 is an Intel Atom SoC, and can do anything any Windows 10 computer can with the core and M processors. So Microsoft's devices are now only Windows 10, and all are full fledged 64bit Windows computers. The Atom z-8700 Surface 3 is a full fledged x86 64 bit tablet with 4 GB of RAM available and 64 bit windows. The 2012 and early 2013 Windows Atom powered tablets were Atom Z 2760 dual core 32 bit machines with a max of 2 GB RAM, and most with only 32 or 64 GB of SSD. Todays Surface Atom tablets and the other brands of Windows tablets are all quad core full fledged Windows systems. My Surface 3 Pro with an i5 is not noticeably faster than my Atom Z3995 ASUS T200 Windows hybrid where it is either a notebook or a detached tablet with one button push.

“To some extent, Apple's position on convergence seems pedantic and inflexible. Sure, Win10 is a compromise that never really achieves a pure tablet experience. The user is constantly forced back into desktop mode so that keyboard and trackpad/mouse become necessities. But it's a compromise that works, and you can do things with a Win10 tablet that you can't do with any Apple device, such as use the pen and touchscreen with Adobe Creative Cloud apps.”

 

I believe you've mixed up Windows 8 with Windows 10. I have three Windows 10 tablets and all started life out as Windows 8/8.1 tablets, and were upgraded to 10. My tablets and Windows 10 does not force me into desktop mode. Windows 10 is always in desktop mode!!! And it can use Apps inside of the multi desktops running. BTW to me the Surface Pro keyboard cover is a great cover and good way to never be without a keyboard. But I already have a great portable wireless keyboard so I did not order the Surface 3 or 4 pro type-cover. (Both are compatible with the Surface Pro 3)

 

“The value proposition for the Wintel tablet or 2-in-1 is fairly compelling, especially if you're a Windows user. A Wintel 2-in-1 equipped with an Intel Core processor can run legacy Windows software, serve as a respectable tablet, often with a pen accessory, and also provide a keyboard and track pad when needed. Given that these were priced about the same as iPad Air 2, the value proposition was fairly compelling for anyone who needed to run software such as Adobe Creative Cloud, which isn't available for iOS.”

The next most important feature of the iPad Pro is Apple Pencil. Stylus capability is of course included in the Surface Pro, so Apple's adoption of it is not a breakthrough in itself."

 

The Microsoft Atom Surface 3 also is stylus capable as are the Venue 11 Pro etc. All Atom Z-3000 series SoCs.

ARM SoCs are never going to have a full version of OSX ported to them. Microsoft did an imitation Windows desktop using ARM architecture, and it proved a disaster, since no new computer programs could be loaded, only apps, just like the iPhone/iPad, which I did not want. What a step backwards that would be. The last porting Apple did was when they announced in 2005 that they were dropping the old and non competitive Power PC processor in favor of Intel x86 hardware designed for Windows, developed by Intel, and refined over the previous generations from 1981 to present for machines sold with Windows, and later Linux used those same boxes for their alternative free OS. Then in 2005 Apple decided to lose the Power PC chipset and use the Intel x86 Windows boxes. Your statement that Apple systems last forever was then amended to at least 10 years of life. My only answer is this: what if you bought that Apple Mac in 2004? Apple left all their customers out in the cold when they switched to Windows hardware and forced them to buy new hardware and new software to continue to get security updates and support when they dropped the Power PC chipset in favor of the Wintel x86 processors. Apple does not, nor ever has, given a written and posted ten year support cycle that Windows buyers get. They know each version will be supported for ten years before support drops.

 

The article was very misinformed. Perhaps if he had asked a person who actually had experience with both to edit the article he would have had a better grasp.

 

Next year I think the tablet landscape as well as the phone landscape will be clearly delineated and the winning OS/OS's will begin to emerge.

 

All Windows tablets (save some of the sub $100-150) have USB ports, and HDMI or Display ports, as well as charge port, headset port, and expansion ports for micro SD cards up to 128GB currently. My T-200 has a full size, flip down, GB Ethernet port for direct plug in to a router/modem. All now are made with dual band ac WiFi radios. My Dell Venue 11 Pro has a replaceable battery.

 

And they do the limited apps and other tablet functions better than most tablets. What is a "Pure tablet experience?" Is that like a Pure Cellphone experience, or a pure laptop experience, or a pure desktop experience? The article has my comment there as AreV. I'll be looking for Mr. Hibbins and his response.