oldjohnt

Thanks for the feedback. Wise choice in placing the charge controller at the batteries and the use of 8 versus 10 Gauge wire will insure less voltage drop. Indeed ALL the negative leads (charging inputs and load outputs) wired to the shunt will provide valuable battery status information. Good job John T

FWIW Having seen similar type problems over 49 years of RVing, I have to agree. I never had much success after trying laying on side or upside down home remedies (for units that hadn't leaked refrigerant) grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. One cause of "plugging" was running off level for extended periods. As an old RV buddy used to say "It's nothing money cant fix" Maybe you will luck out and find an easier less expensive (than a new unit) cure ??? If so let us know. John T

I HAVE TO AGREE 100% on that Lou. Bigger cables = less I x R Voltage Drop (sure 10 Gauge works fine yet 8 = less voltage drop) and controller at battery end is best. I'm running four panels at 1080 watts up on the roof (only a 29 ft Class C) while my solar charge controller is relatively close to my three Renogy AGM batteries. John T Happy often dry Camper

Lou, good post, thanks for your inputs, but actually I think for the most part YOU AND I ACTUALLY AGREE ON A LOT OF THIS !!!!! Yes, I understand how a charge controllers output is based to a degree on battery voltage, so you don't want many variables (I x R Voltage Drop) between the controller and battery. As far as your quote above, I AGREE. Although it will still work EITHER way, if the charge controller is located nearer the panel or the battery, I still prefer it closer to the battery due to less wasted I Squared Heat Energy losses and less I x R Line Voltage Drop . One reason is if the panel is a so called 24 volt with a Vmp maybe 30+ volts there's LESS current FROM panel TO battery then there is FROM controller TO battery which is at a much lower charging voltage of say 14 volts. Since the line voltage drop = I x R and at 30 volts (given near same watts) there's less current, I would still prefer that long 30 ft run (panel to controller) be at the higher panel 30 volts versus the lower 14 volts (from controller to battery). So even if sure it works either way my preference would still be for the long 30 ft run to be at the higher voltage with the charge controller and its lower 14 volts to be close to the battery. EXAMPLE: 30 Panel Vmp Volts at 120 Watts (Panel to Controller) would = 4 Amps, while 14 charging volts at 120 Watts (Controller to Battery) would = 8.57 Amps THATS WHY I STILL PREFER THE CONTROLER NEAR THE BATTERY Looks like we both agree (given a 120 watt panel and a 30 foot run) as you said "This won't have much of an effect on efficiency" I say DITTO Looks like we both AGREE on your quote below also. Distance makes a difference on BOTH since the I x R Line Voltage Drop still applies I AGREE WITH THE ABOVE ANOTHER CONSIDERATION TO THINK ABOUT: The Solar Charge Controller IS NOT 100% EFFICIENT it has heat losses so throw that in to even further complicate all this LOL Trouble is many of the small set out solar panels have the charge controller right at the panels so we don't have a choice unless we re configure which isn't hard or complicated. Thanks Lou, I enjoy and appreciate this techy sparky chat Best wishes n God Bless John T

If I had my druthers I would locate the solar charge controller near the battery, but it will still work at either location with relatively small (subject to wire size, current, and distance) difference in efficiency. NOTE HOWEVER especially if they are lead acid, you don't want any electrical spark producing device in proximity (especially near top of battery) to hazardous potentially explosive gasses batteries can emit . Many of the small suitcase set out panels have the charge controller located with the panel. As far as the wire gauge from solar panel to the solar charge controller, while it makes a difference if the panel was a so called 12 Volt or a 24 Volt, since it's only a 120 watt and you're only talking 30 feet, 10 Gauge will suffice although sure bigger cable means less line voltage drop. Regarding charging your battery, a 120 Watt Panel, depending on the angle and intensity of the sun and condition and SOC of battery, might deliver 5 to 8 charging amps to your battery during peak sun periods which "may" (subject to actual load) be sufficient to replenish battery energy used for small electronics charging or LED lighting etc. While a PWM Solar Charge Controller, often used in low power low voltage applications, is cheaper, an MPPT can be more efficient plus allow for higher input voltages. For more accurate answers you would need to know the panel voltage, wire length and current and use voltage drop calculators, but for a short sweet answer (although NOT perfect or exact) the above should suffice. John T

Kahoona, I hear you. Sooooooooooo you have checked to see if 1) There's 120 VAC getting to the board,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,2) The fuses on the boards are okay,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,3) Theres good 12 VDC for control getting to the board,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,4) The heating element itself is okay and works if power is jumper to it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, SO SINCE 120 VAC IS PRESENT ITS EITHER NOT SENSING IT (board function) OR ELSE NOT PERFORMING THE AUTO SWITCH FUNCTION (a function of front display panel and/or rear board, see below). Its just hard to believe three rear control boards are all bad. There are wires and connectors from the front display panel down to the rear board, so if its possible to get to them I would next concentrate my troubleshooting on that wiring and connections or else consider those display panel issues described below on the web page I cite. Since three boards act the same I'm starting to doubt its a board problem and you have pretty well eliminated the other things I asked about above. It would be nice to have another display panel in case that's the problem (Yeah right who has one of those laying around lol) Although this concerns ARP Installation: https://www.arprv.com/dometic-rm1350.php NOTE since you don't have the ARP none of this may apply I didn't take the time to study it carefully so take this with a grain of salt !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! REGARDLESS with three boards all acting the same I wonder about the display panel and its wiring as a possible cause ??????????????? It (if it applies and not only ARP) has some good info regarding troubleshooting and especially list Error Code EO as : ""No communications between the Dometic control board in the cooling unit compartment and the front display panel. Check for bad wiring connections, power down and back up. Control reverts to full automatic operation."" If you look at the above web page under DIAGNOSTIC MODE it discusses COMMUNICATION FAILURE but it appears it would revert to full automatic operation BUT YOURS ISNT REVERTING TO FULL AUTOMATIC (but you don't have ARP) which shoots all this down grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Oh well check out the web site Diagnostics it may help or confuse you even more or isn't even applicable with not having ARP. John T Running out of ideas here

Thanks for the feedback...…….Okay from what you say it appears the AC heating element itself is okay and not shorted but if you tried three boards and still have the problem ?????????????????? 1) You stated "DC power to lower board" Have you checked the actual voltage ??? If too low it can cause erratic behavior, does it help or matter if you're plugged to shore power or not which can raise that voltage ?? 2) You stated " AC to loser board" and now what you posted makes it appear the heating element itself is okay and not shorted. 3) Can you track down and trace out the circuit (just 2 wires) and connections (plugged in and good n tight no broken wires) to the heating element ???? If its bad or the connection is bad in that cable/circuit such would explain how even a good board isn't allowing 120 VAC operation. 4) Again the AC portion requires 120 VAC at the receptacle where the fridge plugs in plus a good non blown AC fuse on the board, sure its getting 120 VAC ??? If its not sensing the presence of 120 VAC via the receptacle and plug and cord it will want to switch to LP Gas. Insure there's no tripped AC breaker (or bad open wiring) feeding the branch circuit into which the fridge is plugged and that receptacle has 120 VAC plus the plug and cord to the fridge is good. She cant work or sense 120 VAC if none is there. John T Runnin out of ideas here, if all else fails you may have to resort to reading the manual lol

Pedro FWIW I also agree with Lou. If your house battery is low such can cause the fridge or other 12 VDC appliances to fail (or lights may be dim). HOWEVER if plugged to shore power when your Converter/Charger (charges house battery) is working or your house battery is coupled up with the engines battery that can allow it to work. You need to check the voltage and State of Charge (SOC) of your house battery and insure its wired correctly with no blown fuses or tripped circuit breakers or bad/open/corroded connections etc. A full charged lead acid battery stabilized and at rest should read around 12.6 volts and when connected to your working shore powered Converter/Charger or your engine is running and its battery is connected to your house battery it should rise to at least 13 and up to 14 or so volts subject to battery and charging source. Perhaps your house battery is low or its not actually properly connected or a fuse is blown or a breaker is tripped or a connection is bad. When NOT plugged to shore power and the house battery isn't connected to the engines battery, the house battery ALONE needs to have sufficient voltage and SOC to power up the 12VDC appliances and if that's low THEY DONT WORK RIGHT OR AT ALL. Check your house battery terminals and connections,,,,,,,,,,check for any blown fuses or tripped breakers,,,,,,,,,,,check voltage of house battery BOTH when unplugged from shore power and ignition off (12.6 if full charged at rest & stabilized) as well as when plugged to shore power or engine running (13 to 14 volts)……….. How is the electrolyte level if its a flooded lead acid house battery ?? Needs to be above the plates....How old is the house battery ??? A shop can test it for free including a load test...…... John T

Hey that beats doing nothing even if obviously not any permanent solution and it wont get much worse until spring provided water is kept away. Next spring you can replace any rotten wood then do a bang up job with all the available EDPM and Dicor DIY affordable patch solutions out there. About every year I clean my rubber roof, inspect for any cracks or openings, apply lap sealant anywhere necessary and apply a fresh clean white rubber roof coat makes it look so nice. Again on minor tears where I applied Eternabond Tape, Lap Sealant and rubber roof coating over all it never leaked again...……...I'm NOT necessarily recommending this ONLY saying it never leaked.. John T Still NOT an EDPM expert, so check with the roofing professionals and follow instructions.

Good morning Mr. That soft rotting plywood and especially roof frame member ISNT GOING TO GET BETTER OR CURE ITSELF and needs replaced else it gets worse over time. As far as any "temporary" leak stop be sure and use EDPM approved repair/patch products available at RV dealers or on line. For minor leaks/cracks I've had good luck first covering with Eternabond Tape followed up by Dicor. If you choose to "peel the roof back" as you asked I would use ALL NEW replacement EDPM approved procedures versus using the old portion. NOTE: I'm NOT any EDPM roofing expert (although the above did work for me) so I suggest you consult with trained professionals prior to making your decision Best wishes, John T

Last time I was there it was over 100 degrees so I pulled in, hooked up, turned AC on high and pretty much stayed indoors lol PS NOTE: IF you buy a tester (to match your RV outlet) as I recommended and try the RV lights and turn signals and NOTHING lights up on the tester (if its strictly indicator lights requiring a good ground type of tester) THE OUTLET MAY BE MISSING A GOOD GROUND CONNECTION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. That's where if a person had a good 6/12 test lamp or a DC Volt Meter they could check for the presence of voltage on the outlets tail/marker light pin but use a clean shiny conductive metallic frame or bumper or chassis for the ground return (IE not relying on the outlets ground). If good voltage is present that way but not when relying on the outlets ground pin, the outlet could be missing a good ground connection. LOOK FOR A BROKE OFF OR MISSING GROUND WIRE to the outlet !!!!! or perhaps the entire unit isn't connected ????? If they worked before and the toad lights are fine on their own and the cord is good with all connections in place and no bad fuses, there may be a missing ground (or even more bad wires or a bad connection) and the tester can help find the problem, but you may need a bit more troubleshooting. In the event the RV outlet and wiring and ground is all okay but still no toad lights grrrrrrrrrrr then you have to start checking the toads connector for loose or bad wires or connections …………. Let us know what you find and post back any questions, I may be gone a while but will check back later. Hoping its just a bad connection or a wire got pulled loose... John T

Good questions, I've seen several do the same thing you are. For sure you don't need two controllers, so if the portable has its own I've seen many successfully attach the portable panel with its own controller to their battery bank (NOT mess with your in place system). Its like using two hoses instead of one to fill the pool lol. Of course, for a battery monitor to sense and measure all in and all out you wire the potable system negative to the shunt (if you have that type of monitor) where everything else is. If you try and connect to mix n match different panels (rooftop plus portable) as I'm sure you already know they would need to be properly matched. John T

Maggie, Thanks for the update. Since they worked before,,,,,,,,,And work on their own,,,,And the cord checked out,,,,,,,,,,,,, I suspect a problem at the RV rear outlet, perhaps a wire came loose or it lost the ground connection, or the problem is at the toads input connection or loss of ground there. Wise choice to buy the tester I mentioned, that can help locate the problem be it a bad wire or missing ground etc., let us know what you find. John T

EXACTLY, to work on 120 VAC it needs "power at the plug",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 120 VAC power to the control board,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,120 VAC to and through the onboard fuse as Kirk mentioned,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,A good conductive NON OPEN correct resistance heating element,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Of course the control board needs to function properly (having a good 12 VDC supply to it) to sense the presence of 120 VAC and send power to the heating element via the fuse........... Late PS: In the event the 120 VAC source fuse (to the heater) is blown BEFORE you replace it check the resistance of the heating element line to line and also insure NEITHER lead is shorted to case/frame/ground….. John T

Maggie, even if the cord is fine and the toad lights are fine, the toad lights cant work UNLESS the Outlet on the rear of the RV is installed correctly and providing good signal voltage (tail lights and turn and brake signals) plus has a GOOD GROUND and its being suppled to the toad, PLUS the RV and toad need to be configured the same or an adapter is required, see below. REGARDLESS you still need good grounds and if so and even if the turn n stop aren't working correct (due to 3 or 4 wire system mis match) the tail lights might still work. One VERY COMMON cause of failure is there's a poor/loose/resistive or non existent GROUND connection at the RV's rear outlet. INSURE THE GROUND CONNECTION. Plus there needs to be a good ground connection at the toad. You could have blown fuses !!!!! The cord,,, and its plug,,,,,,,,, and the connection on the toad ALLLLLLLLLL need wired right They make easy simple plug in testers for many of the common 7 pole round RV outlets that show if all the lights and turn and brake lights are being fed voltage to the outlet. You just plug it into the RV rear outlet then try the RV lights and turn signals to see if the little indicator lights on the tester all work. That will tell you if at least the RV's rear outlet wiring is good. If not troubleshoot the problem at the RV (bad ground or blown fuse or improper wiring). If you don't have one a simple 6/12 VDC test lamp or a DC voltmeter can be used to insure good signals AND A GOOD GROUND are present at the RV rear outlet. If all is good at the RV rear outlet (voltage and ground) then you have to start troubleshooting the toad and its connection and wiring and ground. The above is all very simple to test and troubleshoot with a 6/12 Volt test lamp or a DC Voltmeter or a plug in tester, you have to have good signal voltages and a good ground there at the rear outlet, but if you're completely electrically challenged take it to a mechanic. OTHER POSSIBLE PROBLEMS: "Some" RV's may use the older 3 wire (Left Turn & Stop, Right Turn & Stop, Tail Marker) system, while others the later 4 wire (Left Turn, Right Turn, Tail, Brake) system. "Most later cars are the 4 wire. IF THE RV AND TOAD ARENT THE SAME then you need a solid state (black box) wired correctly. That's not that hard but if you're electrically challenged best let a professional wire that. NOTE maybe someone can be kind enough to post a picture of one of those plug in testers which can show if at least the RV outlet end is correct and working ??????????? If it used to work and now stopped and NO lights at all work MY FIRST SUSPECT IS YOU LOST THE GROUND CONNECTION at RV rear outlet or at toad connector or at toad...………If all worked before that eliminates my 3/4 wiring concerns above. NOTE A plug in tester is your friend and they are cheap easy n so simple. PS if you have a 6/12 DC test light or a DC volt meter with RV lights on and the probe end of the tester/voltmeter on the tail light pin in the rear outlet and the ground lead attached to a clean steel/aluminum conductive frame/chassis member and it lights AS IT SHOULD but DOES NOT LIGHT if the ground pin in the RV rear outlet is used as ground, the ground wire or its attachment to the outlet is bad/open. This is a simple one minute test if there but hard to describe over the net, sorry John T

You're most welcome Glenn, hey don't feel alone, I've Been There Done That many many times when I was trying to get an RV ready to sell or for my own use, but slow down and do it RIGHT which I'm sure you're already practicing …..FWIW there have been times when I got in a hurry and failed TO PRACTICE WHAT I PREACH grrrrrrrrrrrr Best wishes n God Bless John T

A 4PDT relay can work provided it's rated for the voltage and amperage and wired correctly. Coil voltages are likely available in low voltage up to 120 or 240 so that shouldn't be a problem. There are all sorts of automatic transfer switches out there also.... John T

Glenn, No I don't think you're missing anything, according to Blue Sea Systems https://www.bluesea.com/resources/1437 if you're ONLY pulling 60 Amps # 4 should suffice (especially for a short run) or #1 if you were up to 150 Amps. I still recommend fine stranded Marine Grade wire and any vibration resistance you can work into the run. Again that's one nice system you're building CONGRATULATIONS... John T

AMEN to that jc. A person should do their homework and research and when in doubt (especially where fire and life safety is concerned) consult trained experienced professionals !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! John T Fun sparky chatting with yall

I came across this video recently in which an expert discussed and compared the differences, advantages and disadvantages of Lithium versus Lead Acid/AGM batteries and I found it interesting plus learned a few things I hadn't considered before. If anyone is considering an upgrade they may or may not find this helpful. NOTE its long and perhaps boring to some, but as an electrical engineer and on the techy nerdy side I (ONLY the messenger, I'm not taking sides or standing by anything in the video) enjoyed it. I also took notice and considered some of the information MAY BE OUTDATED (Video is recent BUT is he talking Lithium Ion NOT the latest Lithium Iron Phosphate ??) yet there still appears some relevant information, IE a person needs to do his homework and research and not ONLY listen to advertising. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMf4tBAeMIE John T Long retired n rusty EE who still enjoys sparky chat

Indeed "POWER" in Watts = Volt x Amps, so 7000 "Watts" at 48 Volts, (7000/48) = 145.83 "AMPS" However, that's NOT "Amp Hours" which is what I was asking Glenn about, I asked if he knew the batteries "Energy Storage" Capacity which is typically listed in "Watt HOURS" or "Amp HOURS", let me elaborate. His post just stated 7K !!!! Is that POWER in "Watts" or "Watt Hours" of ENERGY ?? To me the term 7000 Battery "Watts" alone doesn't mean as much, its how many "Watt Hours" I want to know, and for sure 7000 "Watt Hours" would be a good number if that's what was meant ????? Perhaps it is, but I have to ask.... Instantaneous POWER in Watts = Volts x Amps. ENERGY, which is what the electric utility charges you for, is Volts x Amps x Time. You are billed for how many KiloWattHours of Energy you used. Often an RV or Golf Cart or similar Deep Cycle battery (an electrochemical energy storage device) is labeled in "Amp Hours" which is a measure of the available useful ENERGY it can store. So Glenn, I was wondering if you know the "Energy Storage" capacity (in Amp HOURS or Watt HOURS) of those batteries ??? 1) Maybe they aren't labeled as such and you don't know ?? 2) Perhaps that 7K "Watts" you posted is really 7000 "Watt Hours" ?? I'm just curious.... John T

Glenn, FWIW I like the marine grade twist lock power inlets with stainless steel hardware and caps. If you Google such I saw relatively cheap ones (more all plastic then any stainless) up to over a hundred dollars !!!! (Camco, Valterra, Marinco etc) https://www.bing.com/search?q=50+amp+weatherproof+rv+inlet&src=IE-SearchBox&FORM=IESR3A&pc=EUPP_UE00 If you're going to have two inlets hard wired in parallel one, of course, will have exposed live terminals under the protective cap when the other is plugged in, which a transfer switch could eliminate but that's all straight forward easy wiring. John T

WOW Glenn, that's one nice system you're building. Unless I missed it, I'm curious, can you tell us the "ENERGY STORAGE Capacity" in Watt Hours or Amp Hours of those batteries ??? You mention having plenty of #2 Cable which it appears can "work" (even if I would use #1) and, of course, you could parallel a couple of them given proper connectors even if such isn't quite as professional looking. As you mentioned since it's a short run a few feet of No 1 isn't all that expensive. I like fine stranded Marine Grade cable for its improved flexibility and ability to withstand vibration. Regular old Welding Cable is fine stranded, flexible and has high quality insulation. Even if it takes more length I also like using a vibration/flex coil if possible. Were having fun spending your money lol Keep us posted of your progress and choices, I'm enjoying this thread. John T

Glenn, If you're talking 7000 Watts at 48 Volts ???????? that's 145 Amps. You have three banks ??? Wooooooo Hooooooooooo. If a load was drawing 145 Amps and I was sizing the cable, Id opt for No 1 even if 2 suffices per Magnum (If the Blue Sea DC Systems chart is accurate ???? no guarantee) but, of course, that all depends on current and wire size and length and acceptable % drop, so I cant say from here exactly. If you have three such banks can I camp next to you and plug to your Inverter lol. https://www.bluesea.com/resources/1437 Of course bigger wire = less line voltage drop and less I Squared R heat losses so bigger is better but the current and wire length are required to compute voltage drop. Its just in my DNA as an engineer to be on the conservative side and over engineer a bit, so if Magnum says No 2 Id still opt for No 1, still subject to actual current, wire length and acceptable % voltage drop John T

Glenn, sorry here late but FWIW I'm thinking along the same lines as Darryl. If I was wiring a load which had a maximum continuous current of 40 Amps, I would size the wire to have a minimum ampacity of 125% X 40 or 50 Amps, and then size the overcurrent protection device TO PROTECT THE WIRE IE 50 AMPS. However no way sitting here I can know the maximum continuous current or duty cycle of your load so the above may or may not hold true. Selecting the overload protection device can be a bit more complicated then the above, there are pure thermal devices and there are thermal magnetic and there are what are sometimes referred to as dual element time delay fuses aka Slow Blow and there are times a fuse is preferred over a mechanical breaker (often in motor loads) it all depends on the application. They also make circuit breakers designed for HVAC applications which allow for temporary high current surges (greater then full load current) when a motor starts up. If you only have 8 Gauge wire to the motors (and its sized correctly ????) its just my PURE GUESS no guarantee if you buy a 50 amp rated converter (subject to the rating and temperature and other hyped up numbers) you should be fine. Of course that wire or any wires leaving the battery out to loads REQUIRE OVERCURRENT PROTECTION AT OR NEAR THE BATERY NOTTTTTTTTTTTT WAY DOWNSTREAM LEAVING THE WIRE UNPROTECTED. I have no idea of your other loads, so again this is only a guess and an approximation NO GUARANTEE Nice sparky chattin with yall John T