AGM/LFP capacity to space to weight comparison chart

[Yarome]

I just happen to run across this breakdown comparison of Lifeline AGM's and various lithium options that I found very interesting and thought I would share.

 

It's broken down into AH's per pound, AH's per cubic foot, pounds per cubic foot and a running comparison of total pounds and cubic feet required for a 1000ah battery bank.

 

Lifeline AGM ---- 1.7 AH/lb , 233 AH/cFT , 137 lb/cFT -\- expanded to 1000AH = 620lb (4.5 cFT)
Mastervolt LFP -- 2.6 AH/lb , 213 AH/cFT ,, 80 lb/cFT -\- expanded to 1000AH = 377lb (4.7 cFT)
Valence LFP ---- 2.8 AH/lb , 250 AH/cFT ,, 89 lb/cFT -\- expanded to 1000AH = 358lb (4.0 cFT)
PS Li-Polymer --- 2.9 AH/lb , 488 AH/cFT , 122 lb/cFT -\- expanded to 1000AH = 345lb (4.1 cFT)
PS Li-Fe-PO4 --- 2.9 AH/lb , 239 AH/cFT ,, 82 lb/cFT -\- expanded to 1000AH = 342lb (4.1 cFT)
Genasun LFP ---- 3.0 AH/lb , 192 AH/cFT , 130 lb/cFT -\- expanded to 1000AH = 330lb (2.1 cFT)
Racecell LFP ---- 3.1 AH/lb , 272 AH/cFT ,, 87 lb/cFT -\- expanded to 1000AH = 320lb (3.6 cFT)
Valence LMP ---- 3.2 AH/lb , 336 AH/cFT , 105 lb/cFT -\- expanded to 1000AH = 313lb (2.9 cFT)
Smart Li-Ion ---- 3.6 AH/lb , 415 AH/cFT , 117 lb/cFT -\- expanded to 1000AH = 280lb (2.4 cFT)

 

My gills is turnin' green!

[Jim & Wilma]

Interesting comparison. To be fair, the AGM AH capacity to compare should be closer to 1600 AH to deliver the same usable amount of AHs. This is based on an often mentioned depth of discharge guidance of 50% for AGM/FLA and 80% for LFP. So I'd offer the following edit:

 

Lifeline AGM ---- 1.7 AH/lb , 233 AH/cFT , 137 lb/cFT -\- expanded to 1600AH = 992lb (7.2 cFT)

Mastervolt LFP -- 2.6 AH/lb , 213 AH/cFT ,, 80 lb/cFT -\- expanded to 1000AH = 377lb (4.7 cFT)
Valence LFP ---- 2.8 AH/lb , 250 AH/cFT ,, 89 lb/cFT -\- expanded to 1000AH = 358lb (4.0 cFT)
PS Li-Polymer --- 2.9 AH/lb , 488 AH/cFT , 122 lb/cFT -\- expanded to 1000AH = 345lb (4.1 cFT)
PS Li-Fe-PO4 --- 2.9 AH/lb , 239 AH/cFT ,, 82 lb/cFT -\- expanded to 1000AH = 342lb (4.1 cFT)
Genasun LFP ---- 3.0 AH/lb , 192 AH/cFT , 130 lb/cFT -\- expanded to 1000AH = 330lb (2.1 cFT)
Racecell LFP ---- 3.1 AH/lb , 272 AH/cFT ,, 87 lb/cFT -\- expanded to 1000AH = 320lb (3.6 cFT)
Valence LMP ---- 3.2 AH/lb , 336 AH/cFT , 105 lb/cFT -\- expanded to 1000AH = 313lb (2.9 cFT)
Smart Li-Ion ---- 3.6 AH/lb , 415 AH/cFT , 117 lb/cFT -\- expanded to 1000AH = 280lb (2.4 cFT)

[Jack Mayer]

Jim, that is the way I'd view it as well......

[oldjohnt]

Good info Yarome, I am considering upgrading to AGM when the time comes, but doubt I will go the Lithium route just yet, wait for more research and in the field application data then consider safety and price over the expected lifetime and make an informed decision. I'm NOT one who has to have the latest and greatest possibly the most expensive out there solely for bragging rights and prefer to "let the dust settle" and safety concerns shake out and usually by then a price decrease also yayyyyyyyyyyyyy.

 

John T

[VallAndMo]

Howdy,

 

Thanks for the post, Yarolme, very informative.

 

I agree with Jim, we must compare in effective DoD terms for it to be fair.

 

I also see a few things missing:

1. Number of cycles it's expected to last;

2. Price per AH, per effective 800AH, and per cycle;

3. Some kind of correlation of the Lithium lines with manufacturers (never heard of Mastervolt, Valence, etc; what we hear about are Winston, GBS, ...);

4. What about adapted electric car batteries? There's a couple of folks around testing Chevy Volt batteries, and their initial results are very promising.

 

Cheers,

--

Vall.

[Jim & Wilma]

I also see a few things missing:

 

Agree. What would really be cool is a model with dependent and independent variables where you pick some values and the dependent variables are calculated. If you were going to build that model, what variables would you include and what would you solve for?

 

For each set of batteries compared:

• Lbs/AH *
• FT³/AH *
• $/AH *
• Useful life - X cycles at Y DoD - probably select multiple points on curve
• Single battery - X AH *
• Voltage *

* These values are for a single battery at operating voltage. May include multiple cells in single enclosure or single cells ganged together to form a battery.

 

Limits:

• Max $
• Desired useful AH
• Max weight
• Target useful life

Solve for:

• Minimum initial $
• Minimum life cycle $
• Minimum size
• Maximum AH

OK, I've exhausted my fun with this and time to get on with the yard work!

[Yarome]

All great ideas. The above isn't at all what I would call a "comprehensive" chart, but it was interesting in and of itself, 'specially since I didn't have to do no finger count'n, and thought it worth forwarding on to those that might appreciate the little tid-bit.