Lance Williams Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 Truck and Fith wheel combination.I have a 03 ford f350 super duty 4x4 crew cab dually with a 30,000 rating frame mount goose neck set up.I own a 39ft Alfa fith wheel that is rated as such:g.v.w.r. is 17,999 lbs. u.v.w.is 12,540lbs.and the n.c.c.lbs.is 5459 .is this too much for my truck? I'm getting conflicting info.the person I bought the fith wheel from tow it for years 28th a trees quarter ton single rear wheel pick up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray,IN Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 WELCOME to escapees discussion forums! The hitch is rated for 30K #, a 20K# hitch would suffice for that 5er. That however, is not what you need to know to answer your question. What you need to know is this: GVWR of your truck, GCWR of your truck, actual weight of your truck when loaded up ready to begin a trip_which included all passengers, pets, cooler for drinks, 5er hitch, etc.actual pin weight of 5er when loaded to GVWR. Since obtaining actual fully-loaded pin weight of a 5er is not easy or often practical, it may be calculated from unloaded 5er weight and advertised pin weight; not accurate, but within reason. Armed with that information, use this online 5th wheel weight calculator to accurately determine if the 5er is a good match for your truck. You'll note the calculator includes the 20% safety factor, which is recommended by many escapees members. 2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD, ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA ." And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country. John F. Kennedy 20 Jan 1961 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 Truck and Fith wheel combination.I have a 03 ford f350 super duty 4x4 crew cab dually with a 30,000 rating frame mount goose neck set up.I own a 39ft Alfa fith wheel that is rated as such:g.v.w.r. is 17,999 lbs. u.v.w.is 12,540lbs.and the n.c.c.lbs.is 5459 .is this too much for my truck? I'm getting conflicting info.the person I bought the fith wheel from tow it for years 28th a trees quarter ton single rear wheel pick up. Whoops sorry...misread your statement. Ignore my comments. Your comment....."is this too much for my truck?" I am towing a Casita (2500 lbs) with my one ton Dodge Ram diesel. Previously, I towed a tent trailer with it. Now with the tent trailer I did get comments from RV folks about "sure you have enough truck for your trailer". I do sometimes tow a 30.5 foot Cameo with it. It is a LOT MORE FUN to tow the Casita with the truck. NO SUCH THING AS TOO MUCH TRUCK. Vladimr Steblina Retired Forester...exploring the public lands. usbackroads.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreyandSusan Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 Many Towing Guides can be found here. Basic understanding of Matching Trucks and Trailers You should confirm with the remaining needed specs but based on information given and looking at the appropriate FORD 2003 towing guide the GCWR of the truck is somewhere between 16,500 and 20,000 lbs. The Max Loaded Trailer weight (GCWR - Weight of Base truck and 150 lbs Driver) is somewhere between 9900 and 12,400. The unloaded trailer is said to be 12,540. I would be willing to bet it is actually more if you weighed it without your stuff in it. So, before loading anything in the trailer the GCWR will be exceeded. It is likely that the GVWR of the truck will be exceeded because the trailer is a good sized trailer and once loaded will have a sizable pin weight. Also, understand that the numbers above are for the base model of the truck with the specs given, which includes 1-150 lbs driver and no/zip/nada options. that means anything beyond a single passenger of 150 lbs plus any options plus anything thing else in the truck (hitch, dog, extra gas tank, etc) will reduce the Max Loaded Trailer weight. Since it is a dually you may or may not exceed the Rear GAWR. These ratings were not given and it will depend on the loaded pin weight as well. You can find these ratings (GAWR and GVWR) on the Federal certification label on the door jamb of the drivers door. The GCWR can be found on the towing guide from the link above. The person who towed it for years with a SRW 3/4 ton was exceeding the ratings on the truck. Apparently they did it without incident but they did it causing accelerated wear on the Truck components and more importantly reducing the safety capacity of the vehicle (mainly braking and quite possibly tire capacity). Which means they were putting their families lives at greater risk and the other driver's on the road next to them at greater risk. A good thing to do is to load up the truck as you would for travel. Then go to a CAT scale and get axle weights and total weight for the truck. Subtract this from the GCWR and that is a place to start with the limit of the Trucks towing capacity. Since you already have the trailer you can get the overall weight of the trailer by doing the same thing at a CAT (platform) scale. Weight the truck with the trailer attached. weight the truck without the trailer and get the weight of the trailer axles on a different platform. Then subtract the two truck weights and you will have your pin weight. Ad the pin weight to the trailer axle weight and you will have the weight of the trailer. Then you can compare these numbers to your ratings. Susan & Trey Selman | email | HDT: '01 770 VED12 | 5er: '02 40' Travel Supreme RLTSOA | '16 Piaggio MP3 500 | '15 Smart Cabrio | Personal Blog | HHRV Resource Guide | HHRV Campgrounds | Recreation Vehicle Safety & Education Foundation | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yarome Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 the GCWR of the truck is somewhere between 16,500 and 20,000 lbs. Weight of Base truck and 150 lbs Driver is somewhere between 9900 and 12,400. The unloaded trailer is said to be 12,540. So, before loading anything in the trailer the GCWR will be exceeded. The person who towed it for years with a SRW 3/4 ton was exceeding the ratings on the truck. X2. Unfortunately... you don't really need a calculator to do much figuring. Right out of the gate the unloaded vehicle weights of your truck and 5er exceed GCVW. Max tow for an 03' F350 DRW crew cab 4x4 is 12,400... so again.. right out of the gate your unloaded 5er is over max tow. It's not really about how much a truck is able to pull.. it's about control and stopping ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarvan Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 16,500 to 20,000 seems low for a one ton dually........ Granted my Chevy is a 2012 and has a diesel and 6 speed, but my GCVWR is 32,500 Edit:..OK, based on this chart https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/non-html/2003/vs_pdf/camper_03abb.pdf it appears indeed that unless you have the 450 with diesel you don't have enough truck. Previously a 2017 Forest River, Berkshire 38A, "The Dragonship". https://dragonship.blog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgiaHybrid Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 One other thing that a LOT of people forget about. Take a look at the frontal area requirements for that towing capacity. 60 SQ FT. Towing a 96" wide trailer (8-0) your trailer shouldn't more than 7'-6" tall and I don't think most fifth wheels will fit that description. The more frontal area you have, the bigger the parachute is that you are dragging behind you. Some of the trucks in that towing guide are limited to the frontal area of the truck to get their full rating. 2017 Kenworth T6802015 DRV 38RSSA Elite Suites2016 Smart Prime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarvan Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 One other thing that a LOT of people forget about. Take a look at the frontal area requirements for that towing capacity. 60 SQ FT. Towing a 96" wide trailer (8-0) your trailer shouldn't more than 7'-6" tall and I don't think most fifth wheels will fit that description. The more frontal area you have, the bigger the parachute is that you are dragging behind you. Some of the trucks in that towing guide are limited to the frontal area of the truck to get their full rating. Which gets REALLY fuzzy, because now you're talking aerodynamics. My cyclone fiberglas bubble cone is definitely less resistant than a barn door...... Previously a 2017 Forest River, Berkshire 38A, "The Dragonship". https://dragonship.blog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skp51443 Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 The frontal area really does make an impact at highway speed, even more if there is a head or cross wind. Toss in even a few percent grade and your rig will run out of power and start to lug requiring a downshift or two even without any wind. A more aerodynamic fiver will be better than a barn door but the factory tests are usually done with something like a horse trailer that is very aerodynamic, much more so than almost any fiver even before you factor in the additional square footage. I still recommend using 80% of the factory numbers for your planned weight, you and the truck will be happier. I don't recommend going with 100% of the factory numbers and finding out it isn't going to work. Be smarter than I was and you won't be looking at trading a three month old truck for a fraction of what you paid for it. Check the Blue Book trade-in numbers and bet smart by getting a bit more than the minimum truck you need based on the factory claims. First rule of computer consulting: Sell a customer a Linux computer and you'll eat for a day. Sell a customer a Windows computer and you'll eat for a lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skp093018 Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 "16,500 to 20,000 seems low for a one ton dually.".....that is typical of 3500's of that vintage...newer 3500's have been uprated using fuzzy math like rear end gearing and a few design improvements. IMO.....Manufacturer claims for towing capacity are manipulated with different rear end gearing....more capacity, the higher the ratio...ie. 4.10:1, 4.66:1, etc.....While this makes it easier for the engine and xmission to haul a heavier load (and sell more trucks to novice buyers), gearing does nothing for the rest of the truck...like frame and braking. Regards Gemstone '06 Elite Suites, '08 Softail Classic, '06 Softail Deuce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yarome Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 The frontal area really does make an impact at highway speed I still recommend using 80% of the factory numbers for your planned weight X2. Wholeheartedly agree. Some folks are of the opinion that it doesn't really matter for just a few short tows a year, but stopping and control in adverse conditions on a 10 mile tow is no different than a 1000 mile tow. Most get away with it for years, but overloading is undisputedly one of the leading underlying causes of accidents among RV'rs. I agree with Vlad, "NO SUCH THING AS TOO MUCH TRUCK." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohamer Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Yes, It's a Ford. Southwind 35P ARS KB0OU EX Submarine driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray,IN Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 Which gets REALLY fuzzy, because now you're talking aerodynamics. My cyclone fiberglas bubble cone is definitely less resistant than a barn door...... That is interesting. Exactly what is the reduction in air resistance vs a flat cap according to the RV mfgr? 2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD, ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA ." And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country. John F. Kennedy 20 Jan 1961 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarvan Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 That is interesting. Exactly what is the reduction in air resistance vs a flat cap according to the RV mfgr? Don't think Heartland gives numbers, and I don't have a wind tunnel at home...... Previously a 2017 Forest River, Berkshire 38A, "The Dragonship". https://dragonship.blog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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