How to Check An 8D

JCTex · June 2, 2015

One other help for the future:

Jason and Nikki Wynn of "Gone With the Wynns" cut a deal with Fleetwood more than a year ago whereby they could lease a MH for not much in return for some marketing work. That lease ended and they re-did the deal with Fleetwood. This time they chose a Bounder gasser AND got Fleetwood to help them design the unit. Their goal was to convince the industry that the Xer's and soon the Milleniums will buy their MH's if they'll start making some for the 21st Century. They call this their "Dinosaur Series". One thing they spec'd was LFP.

Now, understand most or all of their wish list that was accepted was put in on Fleetwood's nickel, including a 9kW Balqon package. This is the largest cells & BMS suite Balqon markets. They were able (barely) to fit it under the Bounder's side door steps. Jason and NIkki have been doing solar for all last year and are very knowledgeable about monitoring, SOC limits, shading, power use management, and so on. Their first trip is to Alaska. They are currently putting Alcan-type testing to their LFP system and its ability to hold up to that long trip's punishment.

The reason I mention them is, thanks to Fleetwood's pockets and willingness to try new things for the future markets, the Wynns will be a rolling Beta site for the rest of us. I don't think there is a bigger or more proven LFP package out there than the one they have. If I were buying one, this is the one I'd probably want. Having said that, Jason and Nikki now find themselves at the tip of the spear. If their Balqon package and BMS holds up, does its job, and causes no significant problems, AND if Balqon has turned a new page offering better customer service, AND the Wynn's lease year ends with the same LFP still in place, I'm going to declare a victory and go home. What I mean is, the RV world can then go to LFP reliably if they want to spend the bucks.

Jason and Nikki have an email subscription to their blog. Even if you don't care about the rest of their stuff, when Jason publishes something about their LFP system, you'll know about it.

Jerry

reed and elaine · June 2, 2015

Ron Jones and Technomadia were the first two we know of that went to LFP in motorhomes along with Liberty Coaches with their Liberty Ladies ($1.8 M and up). Now AM Solar in Oregon is installing LFP. I think they just started doing this within the year. AM Solar spent a few years monitoring progress before they were willing to install. We have two years with 8.6 kW-hrs (48 V nominal) with zero problems and only one hookup to line power (2 days - it was 103 in the shade and no solar to run the a/c) in those two years. There are few that have put LFP in TT and 5th wheelers in US but it is quite common in Australia.

Reed and Elaine

Daveh · June 2, 2015

Thanks for pointing that out with the wynns. I just subscribed to follow them. In the one picture I looked at I could only see bracketing of the batteries at the top and bottom. I see a lot of applications where the sides are completly strapped to prevent any balooning (Technomadia did this). I don't know if this is really required in the RV setting.

Interesting, although for tip of the spear I have to go with Reed and his combo of LFP and 48 volts.

reed and elaine · June 2, 2015

Ron Jones and Technomadia were the tips of the spear. We learned from their accomplishments and mistakes. Anyone who is thinking of LFP should read (http://www.technomad...battery-update/) and the rest of Technomadia's writings. They did not use a Battery Management System but rather an Electronic Management System (EMS) which could let individual cells get way out of balance and be damaged. The EMS was the technology of four years ago. Our system was designed for EV world were individual cell balancing is critical since they charge and discharge at extremely high rates. An EV BMS may be overkill for the RV world but it does work very well. The Wynn's work with a major RV company will probably be extremely useful.

Reed and Elaine

Jack Mayer · June 2, 2015

Just so you know, Starlight Solar in Yuma are also active in LFP systems.

The bottom line for those wondering about all this is that LFP systems are still "beta" IMO, although they have come a long way in the last few years. They are not a system that is "install and forget" like the AGM system I put into our 2015 build. Which is why I did not do it at that time.

Smitty77_7 · June 3, 2015

Jerry - Glad you have the foot print for the X's 6 6CT's. I'll have to refresh my memory on this, but I recall very little difference in the foot print between the 6CT and the L16's... If I remember right, the L16's were a bit less in width, and bit more in length - but it's been a few years now:)! If I could have fit them in, I would have gone with X's 6 L16's for 1200AH. (With some creative metal cutting and welding, and a shift to a 8D AGM Starting Battery standing on end, I probably could have done so. But, I kept coming up with 800AH's being all that I needed. Especially because I went a bit larger on the Solar Panels capacity, and have good daytime power to use while in the coach.Usually SP get's us to 100% SOC without any problem, even with power drain of day to day living.

I had plenty of carry capacity, so weight was not a real factor. Suspect you do too, but admit I'm not up on your models weight's.

The other factor, as mentioned, would be the bottom of the battery compartment open to the elements. Not a sealed heated/cooled storage area. To go Lithium, I'd want to include those mods too. Who knows, maybe when these Lifeline L16's are ready to be replaced - things will change:)!

Like your thought process, and happy for you that you had the space for the 6CT's.

Best to you, and all,

Smitty

JCTex · June 4, 2015

Da whole et al,

To get a better look at the Wynn's LFP, go to Balqon and find the 3 energy systems they are selling. The Wynns have the biggest one. Balqon uses steel framing a lot and with all they include in the suite, it can get heav(ier).

Next thing on my electric agenda is find a route from my elec compartment up to a hall wall I've chosen to mount the Magnum monitor/control center. Once that's done, I hope to be competent enough to pull my Xantrex 3000 and replace it with my unboxed Magnum 3018 Hybrid. I hope it's a plug-n-play operation. Wish I had a RV electric shop nearby; but north Texas is just not that into specialized RV repair. I'm heading West in a few weeks. If I knew a good elec installer in Amarillo or Albuquerque, I could wait until then. Alas, I fear that unless I drop down to Arizona, I'm not going to find an inverter expert.

Jerry

JCTex · June 4, 2015

Sorry. I typed Daveh, but my computer edited it without my noticing.

Jerry

Daveh · June 4, 2015

Jerry You mean 3012? Once you open that box you will find excellent instructions. You may need to do some things like increase the size of your battery cables between battery and inverter and add/or resize some fuses directly next to inverter. I have the same inverter in my garage and am getting ready for install. Jack Mayer has that inverter, Bill Joyce and maybe Reed. I don't remeber off the top of my head but a number of us do. Look over the detailed insturctions, read Jack's website on wiring an inverter, and come here with questions. Dave

Daveh · June 4, 2015

A link would help. I always forget the links. http://www.jackdanmayer.com/rv_electrical_and_solar.htm

Jack Mayer · June 4, 2015

There is no real magic to wiring the Magnum. Their instructions are incredibly good. Simply take your time and follow them. Your existing wire may be sufficient, but run the numbers just to be sure. You will probably want 4/0 cable. Anything less will likely not be sufficient. But you may already have that - I can't recall what you are replacing.

JCTex · June 6, 2015

Jack, I suspect so, too. Unit was built by Country Coach in Ocober 2007. OE was 2-8D's. The current Xantrex 3000 was installed about 2010. All the connections are covered in red, anti-oxidant and look still good. I will be shocked if the cables are not 4/0. However, how can I check that? Measuring the O.D. seems fruitless due to the unknown thickness of the insulation. I suppose I can attempt to measure the diameter of the wire when I disconnect things but probably not wo cutting off a lug. Even then, the difference in metrics bt 4/0 and, say, 2/0 may be difficult to determine.

Then, there's the concern over whether I can visually inspect for corrosion on the cable ends well enough. On that, I think unless I see some white or green where the base of the lug meets the insulation, I'm going to call them okay. They may be shrink wrap covered, anyway.

Jerry