oldjohnt

I found That's the same thing I found (NOT saying there aren't some out there) which is why for ease and availability and price and possibly less shading concerns subject to roof real estate and possibly less heat problems and less weight per panel, if I had to have 400 watts Id at least consider using TWO 200 Watt probably 24 volt probably wired in parallel Panels. They are so readily available at less then a dollar per watt. I'm running three of the 24 volt 235's in parallel now on my small 29 foot Class C and have room for even one more. Study your roof layout shop around and do your homework and I'm sure you will do fine John T

Kevin, good questions I pretty much agree with Dave's good response, here's my own take: 1) A 400 watt SINGLE panel would be one fairly big unit. My 245 Watt panels are 39 x 64. If you cant find a single 400 watt panel to suit your needs and fit your roof ???? you may be left with the use of MULTIPLE PANELS like it or not. 2) A SINGLE panel (if you can get a single 400 watt that fits on your roof) means less wiring connections and less mounting problems. 3) Multiple panels wired in parallel may (subject to location) reduce some shading problems.. 4) Without any idea of your available roof space and what if any roof restrictions you may have (AC units and vents etc etc) the use of a couple say 200 + Watt 24 Volt panels wired in parallel may be an easy straight forward approach versus a single huge panel. I CANT SAY WITHOUT KNOWING YOUR ROOF. 5) I would shop around to see if you can get a single 400 watt that will fit correctly ???? but if not consider two 200+ watt units which Id prefer versus say FOUR 100 watt units JUST TOO MANY WIRES AND CONNECTIONS. EITHER WAY WILL WORK Id say the answer depends on your roof space John T Long retired electrical engineer and NOT a solar expert so do as they say not me

I think I shared this earlier, but once I was on the phone with Dinosaur Electronics who manufacture replacement circuit boards and when troubleshooting an ignition problem I was asked to verify voltage at the boards input when the technician lectured me on now I needed to be using a quality DC voltmeter as an accurate reading was necessary and a few tenths too low could make a difference. I cant say from here what your problem was but Dinosaur insisted low voltage at the board could be problematic. Thanks for the feedback, congratulations on getting it working..........Now if it fails again we will start all over lol John T Moochdocking at relatives still in Indiana, starting for Texas tomorrow

Mntom, It will mostly be in Austin where our daughter lives. Where will you be ??? John T

Rocky, I had already ordered one it arrives Friday..............NO ELECTRICITY, The wife thinks its easier then our old campfire percolator and she likes how it works same as our household unit (add coffee and water and set it on stove) and besides it will add a bit of heat to help take the chill off in the mornings. After reading the great responses above I arrived at the same conclusion here and the reviews that 12 volt units are slowwww and suck up a lot of battery power............ THANKS TO EVERYONE John T (Currently still in Indiana but headed to Texas)

THANKS ALL those were a few options I wasn't aware of. The big 10 cup home coffee maker works off my 3 KW PSW Inverter but after running my extra 120 VAC fridge 24/7 and the CPAP and some furnace use at night I'm just looking for energy saving where possible in the AM till the sun shines. John T

Can anyone recommend a good 12 Volt say 3 or 4 cup Coffee Maker for dry camping use?? I've been using my big household maker ran off my Inverter (or at times the Generator) and sure, it works, but figure a smaller 12 Volt powered unit might be more efficient. I've read some BAD reviews but those may be from people who didn't run a good heavy hard wired 30 amp circuit to the coffee maker like I would. I sometimes use my old camp fire percolator over the stove but the wife says its too much trouble lol John T Currently "homeless" (if RV living don't count lol) having sold our home and farm after 39 years

Its sounding like EITHER the board is bad OR ELSE there's still a weak resistive voltage dropping connection (or ground) allowing low power board components or indicator lights to work but NOT enough voltage and current to operate the gas valve and/or HV ignitor coil. This assumes the switch and t stat and limit switches are all good with no bad connections and good 12 volt source voltage Id check to see if the gas valve operates if you manually temporarily jump 12 volts to it??? If so but not via the normal board function I'm back to the above. John T Thanks Kirk, we DO have emotional ties to the homeplace where we raised our family, but its too late now, we closed this morning !! Still hope to meet up someday. John T

Thanks coachmac, Closing is in two hours, hope I don't break down lol. We bought the farm in 78 and built the new home in 79, it was our dream and we raised our family here, gonna be tough to walk out the door, but we don't need all the acreage and huge home and upkeep anymore. The time has come, its part of the cycle of life. We have "half timed" for 10 years now full time till we buy our "last" home, before assisted living or nursing home or the cemetery............. Best wishes John T Its important to know if the "clunk" was the gas valve opening???????????? You ought to be able to feel it !!!!!!! Same (clunk) sound if you jumped 12 volts to the gas valve ????? and you would smell some gas ............If it did open but no HV sparky, then its time to check the boards HV coil to see if its causing a spark if a temporary jumper wire to 1/8" to metal gap is attached. That checks for spark at the boards HV coil itself independent from any HV cable or Ignitor tip or grounding problems. If the HV coil is okay then you check for problems in the HV cable and the ignitor tip and grounds and gaps etc as I described above. Once more, if there's adequate voltage (under load) at the board input but no sounds or gas valve opening nor sparky, I suspect a grounding or board (bad solder joint or strip ???) or still possibly a resistive connection problem. NOTE if the gas valve opens and holds open (requires adequate voltage and current), then voltage and power to the board itself and its ground must be okay which can rule out "some" of the related issues above. John T

At least twice a year I clean and blow out the heat exchange tube and all the gas inlet and air piping (similar in the fridge n furnace). I ALWAYS get some rust n soot. BEFORE however I close off where the LP Gas flows so the rust n soot cant get in. Preventive maintenance is so necessary in those darn RV's and even top of the line units are just as vulnerable. John T ONLY a few more days till we turn over keys to the farm and were OUTA HERE................RV is stuffed to the gills

GREAT Info from Kirk, looks like he and I and the manual are ALL on the same page. To simplify and summarize, If there's adequate voltage getting TO the board VIA the switch and t stat and limit switches and the ribbon edge connector (no resistive connections),,,,,,,,,,,,The gas valve should open (easy to feel and/or hear it, test by jumping 12 volts to it and/or check its continuity),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,The boards HV coil should begin throwing its spark (try a jumper to verify its producing high voltage),,,,,,,,,,,,,,The HV cable should carry voltage to the Ignitor Tip (check cable and ceramic and tip for hairline cracks or carbon traces and insure a good ground) and it should spark to ignite the gas. IF there's adequate board voltage (via switch and t stat and limtts) then you have to see if no fire is the result of 1) The gas valve isn't opening or 2) The Ignitor Tip isnt firing to ignite the gas or 3) NEITHER is working IF NEITHER the gas valve is opening ORRRRRRRRRRRR the boards HV coil itself (IE independent from any HV cable or ignitor tip issues) isn't producing HV to jump a spark and there's adequate board voltage THE BOARD COULD BE BAD. NOTE One problem in testing voltages at certain locations when you're looking for bad/loose/resistive connections, is there's NO I x R Voltage Drop UNLESS CURRENT IS FLOWING (IE a load is present). You may want to just check and verify the connections and grounds and clean up and polish and re attach. NOTE The no fire indicator lamp doesn't take as much current as the rest of the control board, there could still be a bad/resistive connection. NOTE If the boards HV coil is producing HV for the spark and the cable is good Ive still had the ceramic ignitor tips fail EVEN IF THEY LOOK GOOD TO THE EYE. NOTE Ive had units fail to light because the ignitor tips gap distance was too small or large HOWEVER if you're not getting EITHER gas valve OR HV sparking, then its a low voltage or connections or grounds or t stat or limits or finally yes even a bad board LET US KNOW WHAT YOU FIND GO BY THE MANUAL VERSUS MY SUGGESTIONS IF THERES A DIFFERENCE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm NOT there and ONLY speaking in general from experience with boards you can get to and perform the tests above................. Best wishes, keep safe and God Bless John T

coachmac, as typical Kirk and I agree as I also view it since the red light comes on, power IS GETTING TO THE BOARD (could still be a resistive connection however). YES its powered by 12 VDC not 120 VAC The patch is the Switch is turned ON,,,,,,,,,,,Then power gets to the board via a closed thermostat and any other limit and over heat thermal protection device,,,,,,,,,,,Then if alls well the gas solenoid valves opens (you can BOTH feel and hear its click),,,,,,,,,,,,,,Then the HV Ignitor coil on the board should start firing producing a snap snap snap sound when the ceramic encased Ignitor Tip throws a spark that's visible if you look near where gas flows out the tube. HOWEVER, if the gas valve isn't opening and the HV coil gonna isn't sparking and there's good voltage (cant be too low) to the board via the t stat and limit switches, the circuit board could be bad ???? Just for the heck of it I would remove the flat ribbon board edge connector (sure even though the light is coming on) and gently clean buff polish the flat copper looking strips on the board and re attach.............Then watch and listen carefully (I lay my hand on the gas solenoid valve to feel if it energizes) when someone turns the heater ON................ A) If the gas valve opens but she don't light, then I move on to troubleshoot if the boards HV coil is producing the HV (remove the HV cable on the coil and replace with a jumper wire off its output terminal to 1/4" to metal) and if so, then I move on to the ceramic ignitor tip (check for hairline cracks or carbon traces and its gap) to see if its sparking, but the HV CABLE from the coil to the ceramic ignitor tip could be bad ??? The last ceramic ignitor tip I bought came with the HV cable and tip as a unit. If the gas valve never even opens and if there's good full voltage to the board via the t stat and limit switches, I suspect the gas valve,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, or its wiring or ground connection is bad,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, or else the circuit board is bad............... You might have all else off and jump 12 volts direct to the gas valve and see if it opens????? You can also unhook and check for continuity thru its coil. If it opens when jumped manually that rules out a bad valve, so it must not be getting its power via the circuit boards proper functioning. If you just keep in mind power gets to the board via the switch and t stat and limit switches,,, and then the gas valve has to open and the HV coil and ignitor tip work to produce the snap snap snap spark you may find the problem I would also check all those metal ground connections and like the post above the tip assembly for a good ground (if the valve opens but no sparky) NOTE if you hear NOTHING (no gas valve opening and no HV firing) and the switch is on and there's sufficient voltage to and through the t stat and safety limits and the board is well connected (IE NO connector resistance) and there's adequate voltage right there on the boards INPUT and all the grounds are good n tight COULD BE A BAD BOARD but over the years its more often been something else ???? Sure you need gas to the unit but still the valve should open and the ignitor start firing DUH..........Id be checking the t stat and any high temp safety cutouts for closure and good low resistances. Go by the manual not us lol Keep us posted what you find. PS this troubleshooting ONLY works if it has a heater with a board and HV coil and HV cable and ignitor tip etc you can get to !!!! John T

XC, I AGREE its hard to give up the meters I bought with my own hard earned money back in high school lol HOWEVER when working on some older electrical devices (like say the generator on an old tractor) and even often on the RV, I still pull out my old Simpson because with all the fluttering and unsteady voltage fluctuations "some" DIGITAL meters sort of loose their mind lol and don't display any steady reading, while my old damped ANALOG meter reads fairly steady and accurate. I have digitals BUT I STILL LIKE MY OLD ANALOG SIMPSON. While it takes an actual true capacitor tester to measure and test those devices, I can still use my Simpson "kickback test" to provide at least some indication of their quality. Nice chattin with you, get those old meter fixed up lol John T Full time starting this Sunday (have half timed for 10 years) the wife has the RV packed to the gills.................. She better not have tossed out my Simpson lol

XC, I AGREE its hard to give up the meters I bought with my own hard earned money back in high school lol HOWEVER when working on some older electrical devices (like say the generator on an old tractor) and even often on the RV, I still pull out my old Simpson because with all the fluttering and unsteady voltage fluctuations "some" DIGITAL meters sort of loose their mind lol and don't display any steady reading, while my old damped ANALOG meter reads fairly steady and accurate. I have digitals BUT I STILL LIKE MY OLD ANALOG SIMPSON. While it takes an actual true capacitor tester to measure and test those devices, I can still use my Simpson "kickback test" to provide at least some indication of their quality. Nice chattin with you, get those old meter fixed up lol John T Full time starting this Sunday (have half timed for 10 years) the wife has the RV packed to the gills.................. She better not have tossed out my Simpson lol

AMEN TO THAT However, being "old school" ever since I scrimped and saved back in the early sixties to buy my first SIMPSON 260 ANALOG VOM (Also have a 270 and an RCA WV 38A) I love and find it so helpful and reliable and use it to this day. Of course and as would be expected, however, since then 'Ive owned a variety of more expensive Digital meters and like them but for different uses and reasons perhaps. Heck I still have several vacuum tube radios (Zenith, Crosley, Grunow, Hammarlund, Hallicrafters, Dyna Kit Stereo 70, Knight Kit Star Roamer) and love them also. Just call me old, old fashion and nostalgic, see if I care lol John T

Thanks for the feedback, TIME WILL TELL. Relative to your POSSIBLE FIX (poor or resistive connection) reminds me of a time I spoke to Dinosaur while I was troubleshooting whether a board was bad. I was asked what the voltage was at certain locations and I responded it looked okay and then was asked "How do you know that" to which I responded "my test light is bright" DID I GET AN EAR FULL LOL I was educated that I needed an accurate voltmeter as even a volt or two might be more critical then I imagined. Sure one may think a wide voltage range (manuals may even indicate as such) should enable small low power electronics to still function, but according to Dinosaur when I spoke to them a loose or corroded or otherwise resistive connection (NOT just the board but anywhere in the heater circuit) can render the heater inoperable WELL DUH. That was the FIRST time I was told to polish the boards flat contact strips which in that particular situation DID cure the problem. That may or may not ever fix another board but it did that one. If all your connections and grounds (I like that clean up of the ground perhaps that was the major cause ???) are now good but it fails again then its back to the drawing board, maybe try some or all of the suggestions above. The time may come when you're left with nothing other then a new board ?????? John T

"I tried some dielectric grease on the igniter connection but that didn't seem to make a difference." That's NOT a place I would apply an insulating (dielectric) material between the mating surfaces "I don't think using the grease on the board connection and plug would be a good idea." I AGREE I would instead remove the flat ribbon connector and use a pencil eraser to lightly gently clean/buff/polish the flat copper looking strips on the board "I also need to remove the ground screw and scrape down to bare metal" GOOD IDEA Have you tired a jumper wire to the boards HV Ignitor cable to 1/8 to metal to see if it sparks when the t stat calls for heat???? The ignitor tip cant fire unless the HV coil is sending it high voltage ????????????? If the board connection is good and ignitor HV coil (on the board) is good and the ignitor tip is good and The board is getting sufficient voltage via the t stat and power input surE IT COULD BE THE BOARD I have NEVER had a Dinosaur board go bad. CALL THEM WITH THE HEATERS MAKE MODEL AND SERIAL NUMBER and they can Tell you what board you need and also assist troubleshooting a board Some dealers have a unit that can test a board !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! See if you can find such a dealer I would try the above then call Dinosaur John T . Running out of ideas but hate to buy a new board if that's not the problem.

Just to reinforce Kirk's EXCELLENT ADVICE, some time back I started a thread on here because my FURNACE wasn't lighting. I did some troubleshooting and found the HV ignitor coil itself was throwing a good HV spark (I used a little jumper cable) so I cleaned and adjusted (I could NOT see any cracks or carbon traces) the ignitor tip and gap and relocated it (the relocation seemed to really help the most) and she started working again, but shortly thereafter she stopped working again. Just to be prepared, I had gone to Flea Bay and purchased a whole new assembly, tip with ceramic insulator and new HV cable and installed it AND ITS WORKED PERFECT EVER SINCE. Moral of the story, an ignitor tip or the cable or insulator may look fine to the eye but still be bad. However I took it you ALREADY have a new ignitor ?????????? Hmmmmmmmm check the gap and location maybe and insure the HV coil itself is throwing a spark (maybe a jumper wire to 1/8 to metal if possible to jury rig such on your unit??) They make that snap snap snap sound when firing, yours do that ??? but you can see the little sparky with your eye if she's firing. Were all trying our best to save you buying a new board lol John T

Sure, the board may be bad but that's like one of the more expensive fixes !!! Talk to Dinosaur Electronics if you can still talk to them about troubleshooting or one of their replacement units. FWIW Its been my experience that iffffffffffffff there's sufficient voltage getting TO the board via the switch and T stat and any limit switches and ifffffffffffffffff the boards flat ribbon connection is good n clean making good contact so the board gets sufficient voltage (Low voltage there can cause a problem) ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and iffffffffffff the HV ignitor coil is good and throwing a good spark itself (test by unhooking wire to ceramic ignitor tip (if possible on your unit) and use a jumper wire with end 1/8 or so from metal to see if it is sparking),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,BUT it lights intermittently: Possibilities are the ceramic ignitor tip itself (may have small cracks or carbon traces) is bad and spark energy gets shorted. I see you replaced it (I assume the tip right?) so if its good and placed at the proper distance, check that its fairly critical ????? it may be the cable to it or the HV ignitor coil The ceramic ignitor tip isn't located at the right distance or location Faulty HV ignitor cable Faulty board due to a solder break or crack or its electronics I have spent time on the phone with Dinosaur electronics (The President himself once and other times tech support) and I was surprised how bad low voltage or a resistive connection can cause problems. I would take a good hard look at the ignitor tip and proper gap distance and run any manual troubleshooting tips and insure the HV ignitor coil itself is throwing a good spark and use an accurate volt meter to insure good board voltage NOTE Hot water heaters are NOT my cup o tea so I hope the other gents can add more possibilities and troubleshooting tips.. Once you have good voltage to the board and the HV coil and ignitor tip and its gap distance are all good, it may be the boards electronics or a bad solder joint or a crack BUT BEYOND THAT IM OUT TO LUNCH LOL PS the fact it lights manually tells me the switch and T stat and any limits are good and the gas valve is opening, so I'm left with a board or HV ignitor coil or the tip or gap etc. PS I'm not sure if your heater and board and ignitor (separate or onboard the regular board???) is configured or will even allow you to do the things I posted above ????????? if not I meant well lol Best I have to offer, see what the experts have to say John T

Congrats Eddie and thanks for the feedback. Give a try to gently clean/polish up the boards flat copper looking contact strips like I mentioned before, and if that don't fix it or Toms good advice above regarding a possible bad solder joint (looks like you now obviously have POWER GETTING TO THE BOARD via the thermal and t stat we worried about previously) a new board may be in the works (Ive had good luck with Dinosaur replacement boards) , I try to carry a spare myself. You're getting there fer sure. John T

Thanks coachmac, It would be fun to visit you and Kirk. We base around Austin in Nov and December or so before heading to Florida but we may travel to Coleman Texas sometime which is in your direction. I wont know any final plans until SWMBO and my daughter tell me LOL John T

Will do when the time comes, Thanks John T

Good evening Kirk, Actually (unfortunately) the vast majority of my work when I was an RV dealer was, like you, in troubleshooting and repair all the never ending issues encountered in dealing in USED RV's. It was up to meeeeeeeeeee to diagnose troubleshoot and repair a unit before offering it for retail. As an Electrical Engineer I was more comfortable dealing with electrical versus plumbing issues, but had to learn the hard way from experience how to fix the darn things grrrrrrrrrrrrrr. I was thinking back and actually its been 47+ years as a continuous RV owner and/or dealer, but these high dollar sleek units are beyond my ability, glad I'm retired now lol I will be visiting your great State in October, it would be a pleasure to visit, chit chat and sparky talk with you. Fun talkin with you as always. Best wishes and God Bless Kirk John T

Mac, in my experience RV 12 VDC loads (lights, fans, furnace, water heater, fridge, water pumps, 12 volt appliances etc etc) are fed from the 12 VDC distribution panel (served by the house battery) via fused branch circuits in order to provide overcurrent protection to prevent a fire, so yes Id expect a fuse in the circuit and that's the first place I look when there's an electrical problem. As the diagram above indicates, that 12 VDC source (likely fuse protected) has to jump through some hoops (thermals, t stats, switches etc) BEFORE it can power up the circuit board. John T

Kirk, sounds familiar to my experiences as a used RV dealer and over 40 years an RV user. I've seen more blown fuses or no board power present and faulty ignitor tips then I have bad circuit boards. If we were there armed with a volt meter or even a 12 volt test lamp we could help him. Of course sure boards go bad and it may be that UNLESS its NOT getting power, that's the $64,000 question lol Eddie, run out to wally world or any hardware or auto parts house and buy a 12 volt test lamp. The alligator clamp end goes to ground and you use the sharp tip end to probe for 12 volts causing the lamp to glow at 12 volts PIECE OF CAKE....per my above guidelines John T