Need Help Understanding 5th Wheel Hitch Weight and TV Payload

[FBO Cookie Monster]

I’m at the low end of the food chain, with an F150, with the payload package. Crew Cab, 2500 lb payload. I knew when I bought it that I would be very limited with fifth wheel selections, and did the math before hand. We don’t need or want anything over 30’, but there are not many that fit the bill. Looking real hard at the Minnie Plus, 25’. It has an advertised dry pin of 820 lbs, so if that creeps up to 1400 or so, I’m good with that. Planning on the AUH hitch, and attach it to the truck with a gooseball. 

Since 99% of my driving is not towing, this made the most sense. The 250 diesel has a payload at least 400 lbs less, although many would argue that it would still be better even going over the limits. Maybe. But I am not one to knowingly go over the limits. 

 

Other contender on the horizon are the jayco 25.5, with an advertised empty hitch of 1300 lbs. I like the Jayco a little better, but loaded for bear will be right at max payload by my estimate. I refuse to get a fifth wheel built with a laminated floor system, I’ve seen what a little water damage can do to them in very short order. So 5/8 plywood for me. That makes the available contenders list exceedingly short.

[jamtracy]

Funny how the OP made 1 post back in May and has never posted again.

[BigDinAZ]

On 9/7/2019 at 7:26 AM, FBO Cookie Monster said:

I’m at the low end of the food chain, with an F150, with the payload package. Crew Cab, 2500 lb payload. I knew when I bought it that I would be very limited with fifth wheel selections, and did the math before hand. We don’t need or want anything over 30’, but there are not many that fit the bill. Looking real hard at the Minnie Plus, 25’. It has an advertised dry pin of 820 lbs, so if that creeps up to 1400 or so, I’m good with that. Planning on the AUH hitch, and attach it to the truck with a gooseball. 

Since 99% of my driving is not towing, this made the most sense. The 250 diesel has a payload at least 400 lbs less, although many would argue that it would still be better even going over the limits. Maybe. But I am not one to knowingly go over the limits. 

 

Other contender on the horizon are the jayco 25.5, with an advertised empty hitch of 1300 lbs. I like the Jayco a little better, but loaded for bear will be right at max payload by my estimate. I refuse to get a fifth wheel built with a laminated floor system, I’ve seen what a little water damage can do to them in very short order. So 5/8 plywood for me. That makes the available contenders list exceedingly short.

You may be okay with the Winnebago but remember you need to add your weight, the wife, kids, fuel, and anything else you put in the truck, not just the pin weight.

Also check the GCWR which is truck and trailer, use GVWR numbers and not empty weights.

You cod be under on pad but be over the GCWR.

Also check axle and tire ratings too. Yes it's true, I am a payload guy, but you need to know, and stay under the other numbers too.

 

D

[BigDinAZ]

On 9/7/2019 at 7:26 AM, FBO Cookie Monster said:

I’m at the low end of the food chain, with an F150, with the payload package. Crew Cab, 2500 lb payload. I knew when I bought it that I would be very limited with fifth wheel selections, and did the math before hand. We don’t need or want anything over 30’, but there are not many that fit the bill. Looking real hard at the Minnie Plus, 25’. It has an advertised dry pin of 820 lbs, so if that creeps up to 1400 or so, I’m good with that. Planning on the AUH hitch, and attach it to the truck with a gooseball. 

Since 99% of my driving is not towing, this made the most sense. The 250 diesel has a payload at least 400 lbs less, although many would argue that it would still be better even going over the limits. Maybe. But I am not one to knowingly go over the limits. 

 

Other contender on the horizon are the jayco 25.5, with an advertised empty hitch of 1300 lbs. I like the Jayco a little better, but loaded for bear will be right at max payload by my estimate. I refuse to get a fifth wheel built with a laminated floor system, I’ve seen what a little water damage can do to them in very short order. So 5/8 plywood for me. That makes the available contenders list exceedingly short.

I had an after thought on this.

I went to Winnebago's web page and the lightest GVWR Minnie Plus 25RKS is 9,995lbs. 20%of that is 1,999lbs, which leaves about 500lbs payload.

Now figure in the hitch, and that's another 100 lbs, leaving about 400lbs, now you and the wife, and fuel, you are going to be maxing out, if not over payload.

What about the Micro Mini fifth wheel?

GVWR is 7,000lbs giving a pin weight of about 1,540lbs leaving just under 1,000lbs.

You are still going to be close, but most likely under.

Maybe you could get a pull trailer?

[FBO Cookie Monster]

On 9/9/2019 at 11:26 AM, BigDinAZ said:

I had an after thought on this.

I went to Winnebago's web page and the lightest GVWR Minnie Plus 25RKS is 9,995lbs. 20%of that is 1,999lbs, which leaves about 500lbs payload.

Now figure in the hitch, and that's another 100 lbs, leaving about 400lbs, now you and the wife, and fuel, you are going to be maxing out, if not over payload.

What about the Micro Mini fifth wheel?

GVWR is 7,000lbs giving a pin weight of about 1,540lbs leaving just under 1,000lbs.

You are still going to be close, but most likely under.

Maybe you could get a pull trailer?

So far, not really interested in a trailer. I like the total length of this thing. 

The GVWR of my truck is 7800 lbs. 

I have a pic of the trailers sticker, I *wish* it went to 9995 lbs. it does not, only 8800 lbs, leaving a ccc 1600 lbs.  Their math is fuzzy. It has 5100 lb axles installed. Maybe the frame can’t take the weight? If I can figure out how to reduce pixles on this ipad I’ll post that pic.

 

Anyways, I plan on the B&W flip ball, or their competitor. That, with an AUH should weigh less than 100lbs. 1400 lbs on the pin leaves 1000 lbs for me, my wife, and my dog. Heck, maybe enough for 2200 watt Honda!

GCWR is over 17,000 lbs, Rear axle 4800. Looks ok on all of those. Fuel is included btw, for payload. Just not total gcw.

Edited September 14, 2019 by FBO Cookie Monster

[BigDinAZ]

On 9/13/2019 at 5:11 PM, FBO Cookie Monster said:

So far, not really interested in a trailer. I like the total length of this thing. 

The GVWR of my truck is 7800 lbs. 

I have a pic of the trailers sticker, I *wish* it went to 9995 lbs. it does not, only 8800 lbs, leaving a ccc 1600 lbs.  Their math is fuzzy. It has 5100 lb axles installed. Maybe the frame can’t take the weight? If I can figure out how to reduce pixles on this ipad I’ll post that pic.

 

Anyways, I plan on the B&W flip ball, or their competitor. That, with an AUH should weigh less than 100lbs. 1400 lbs on the pin leaves 1000 lbs for me, my wife, and my dog. Heck, maybe enough for 2200 watt Honda!

GCWR is over 17,000 lbs, Rear axle 4800. Looks ok on all of those. Fuel is included btw, for payload. Just not total gcw.

The trailer has a GVWR of 8880 lbs. 20% of that is 1,776 lbs. The payload on the truck is 2,499 lbs minus 1,776 leaves 723 lbs payload, minus 100 lbs for AUH is 623 lbs payload left.

A gallon of Diesel weighs 7.189 lbs so 30 gallons would be 215 lbs leaving 408 lbs. Then take away you, the wife, snacks drinks etc you are right at the max.

There are those who say meh it's fine, don't worry about it those numbers don't mean anything.

Then there are guys like me who have seen those other guys in the ditch. I have seen lots of trailers in accidents. Personally I don't like to max anything out. By the numbers you are right there, and by the numbers it should be okay, that's your call as to weather or not you are comfortable. Me I would not feel comfortable, but that's just me.

Personally with my set up, I still have over a ton of free payload, after I am maxed out on trailer weight, me, wife, fuel and all that jazz, I am couple tons under GCWR, and way, way under tow rating, and I also do a lot of one handed driving with the cruise control set, the AC on and the tunes playing. I sit nice and level, and I hardly know that 11,000 lb trailer is back there. But that's just me.

Oh and I actually have more free payload room because I don't load my trailer to the Max either, that's just based on the GVWR of the trailer.

Remember, those are all only calculated numbers, you will never really know until you put it all on a scale.

Just my .02

D

 

[FBO Cookie Monster]

4 hours ago, BigDinAZ said:

The trailer has a GVWR of 8880 lbs. 20% of that is 1,776 lbs. The payload on the truck is 2,499 lbs minus 1,776 leaves 723 lbs payload, minus 100 lbs for AUH is 623 lbs payload left.

A gallon of Diesel weighs 7.189 lbs so 30 gallons would be 215 lbs leaving 408 lbs. Then take away you, the wife, snacks drinks etc you are right at the max.

There are those who say meh it's fine, don't worry about it those numbers don't mean anything.

Then there are guys like me who have seen those other guys in the ditch. I have seen lots of trailers in accidents. Personally I don't like to max anything out. By the numbers you are right there, and by the numbers it should be okay, that's your call as to weather or not you are comfortable. Me I would not feel comfortable, but that's just me.

Personally with my set up, I still have over a ton of free payload, after I am maxed out on trailer weight, me, wife, fuel and all that jazz, I am couple tons under GCWR, and way, way under tow rating, and I also do a lot of one handed driving with the cruise control set, the AC on and the tunes playing. I sit nice and level, and I hardly know that 11,000 lb trailer is back there. But that's just me.

Oh and I actually have more free payload room because I don't load my trailer to the Max either, that's just based on the GVWR of the trailer.

Remember, those are all only calculated numbers, you will never really know until you put it all on a scale.

Just my .02

D

 

Couple things. The payload is calculated with a full load of fuel.

Would be hard pressed to get hitch more than 1500 or 1600 tops. The trailer has the axles farther forward. If I get it, I will scale it.

 

Edit: Diesel? I’m in an eco boost!

 

Edited September 15, 2019 by FBO Cookie Monster

[NDBirdman]

Looking forward to seeing your scale ticket.  When you take it, have truck/camper loaded just like your heading out, full fuel, wife/kids/dogs/gear in cab/bed and everything in the camper you will need.  Even full tanks of water if you are going to go that way.

[ms60ocb]

On 8/6/2019 at 9:39 AM, MikePamRV said:

I just wish Ford didn't distribute bad info (regarding curb weight) so I wouldn't have fallen into this trap.

It isn't just Ford. Most of the time it is Basic vehicle and the fine print.??

But vehicles aren't the worst, watch out for the RV's. And it not just the the hand full of extra stables and longer screws that was used added accessories and upgrades. Then maybe the axle placement was off a few inches, which effects the pin weight. When in doubt ,check the weights before you move in.

Clay driving a Class 5 pulling and stopping a 40 foot FW

[ms60ocb]

Delated because submitting problem

Edited September 16, 2019 by ms60ocb
Dulpicate

[TireHobby]

On 9/13/2019 at 8:11 PM, FBO Cookie Monster said:

So far, not really interested in a trailer. I like the total length of this thing. 

The GVWR of my truck is 7800 lbs. 

I have a pic of the trailers sticker, I *wish* it went to 9995 lbs. it does not, only 8800 lbs, leaving a ccc 1600 lbs.  Their math is fuzzy. It has 5100 lb axles installed. Maybe the frame can’t take the weight? If I can figure out how to reduce pixles on this ipad I’ll post that pic.

 

Anyways, I plan on the B&W flip ball, or their competitor. That, with an AUH should weigh less than 100lbs. 1400 lbs on the pin leaves 1000 lbs for me, my wife, and my dog. Heck, maybe enough for 2200 watt Honda!

GCWR is over 17,000 lbs, Rear axle 4800. Looks ok on all of those. Fuel is included btw, for payload. Just not total gcw.

Your trailer certification label is a mystery. Maybe they used some logic unknown to other manufacturers. The certified axles for a 8800# GAWR trailer don't need to be certified beyond 4400#. The 5100# are 700# above minimum requirements and invite overloading. I'm betting the axle manufacturer's tag on those axles are 5200# and recertified for the trailer to 5100# because the installed tires would not meet the 10% RVIA recommendation for reserve load capacity on 5200# axles. They could have used those tires in a LRD or LRE with 4400# axles.

 

Edited September 16, 2019 by TireHobby

[Consolenut]

Be careful on that overweight deal. I seen the first RVer get fine for it TODAY. A guy in the park Im staying presently. Went to weigh his new rig. He got pulled over initially for no tail lights or brake lights. His cord was draggin the road. "BUT" the OHP officer seen his headlights pointing up and decided to get his portable scales out.  Long story short 650 pounds over weight on his rear axle rating and it cost him $208.90 for the weight fine and 78 for faulty equip. 0-2000 is a standard $208.90 fine  Oklahoma City 60 miles east is where this occured. Needless to say the guy is going to look at a 450 or better. It can happen as it did today. I told him he was overweight he wasnt worried till he dinged