phoenix2013

In 15 years I had seen only two Forks RVs (JC Canterbury's and Ken Laveal's) both pulled by Volvos and ETs and both needed the extra size bag. The ET is massive because it was designed to take care of fifths like those. The rigs were custom built for JC and Ken and I believe one or both were featured on a TV show featuring custom rigs like these. JC sold his few years back and it looks like Ken did more recently. Forks went out of business few years back, they found out that building super expensive and super custom fifths is great for soul and reputation but not so good for profit margin. The business with airbags is not where more is better. You might have a lot of mush with 3K pin weight. The ET was designed to take different size airbags to match the pin weights. See how it goes and and I might have some ideas for you, call me if you want to "chat". This was JC's Volvo getting the larger bag and a new Super Binkley head.

Visited the shop and the truck today. They prepped the bed tubing per my drawings, will start welding Monday. Wow that's inspiring. Puts an onus on me to design the back end over the weekend. Also, both of these (left and right) are coming off. It would a shame just to junk them, design ideas how to "re-purpose" at least one are banging around my head. "Fold out", "slide out", hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm??????????????????????

Ken Leaville working on his Volvo The truck had standard ET Senior, perfect for 22-25K trailer with 5-6K pin weight. Old Goat learned though through " this network and friends" that Ken was pulling 33K fifth with 8K pin weight. So Old Goat "invited" Ken to come down to Florida to remedy the situation. The ET was upgraded with a 13.5K airbag to an ET Super Senior. That airbag might be "too mushy" if your fifth is significantly below 5K on the king pin. While he was staying at the local RV park we go a tour of his "palace". Curious what Ken did with the coach, it was a one of the kind.

Project is proceeding, lists are generated, almost $3 grands of deck plate has been ordered, basic design and dimensioning has been created. It's gonna be a long sucker on account of the 153" you see. the grandpa WW2 Willis is being replaced with this grandson at 153" long. Now the real fun begins, how to make this pretty, there will be surprises and innovations.

Very nice truck, it spent couple of days at the Old Goat's installation and upgrade "central". I wrote an article on weight and balance using their rig as an example (portion below), see what I can dig up for photos, my google pictures are still working.

Rod, guess what I spotted in my photo archives, the moment that started it all.

You won't be a Captain, but at least you be Second Officer. I don't know what rank I was carrying in this situation.

Three examples of extended pin box, even with the front cap pin box and straight down pin box. 70 -75 degrees turn is where the most "challenge" is on a straight front cap. If the front cap is curved the hypotenuse issue goes away on the straight down pin box. At 90 degrees it's the same on all three front to back.

Things have moved significantly forward yesterday. They have moved from this (a congenial meeting) to visiting the machine shop and checking on a pile of steel tubing dedicated to a bed project. Also, checking on a Jeep to go on a bed Check out the $12,000 paint job on the Jeep I also got to visit Camping World where the rig which will be pulled by this truck is getting all kinds of upgrades like solar and these lithium batteries under the bed (more on that later). I was also told that the jeep on the bed will have a companion in the fifth's garage. Since the truck needs to proudly showcase this triple offspring, it will be heading to the shop for a coat of black Imron. Interesting, isn't it? So interesting in fact that Old Goat got himself a project, I believe it's a failed retirement number six. He's going away to New Hampshire at the end of May so anything that requires hands or eyes on must be completed in four weeks. First milestone, start welding the bed in two weeks, shop has a window. Therefore, concept, project plan, bed design, material list and cut list needs to happen in the next two weeks, beyond then it's execution. Should be a good time race. I gave this project it's own thread so you can follow the race. I know, I know, if you guys are typical race fans you want to see what happens. The Old Goat has the pole position at the moment, you want to see how long he can maintain it, or how far back he slips and I know few of you are just waiting for the crash and burn moment.

The facsimile of the fifth you see is of Continental Coach. I did it for a customer who wanted to know whether things would work out on his bed. Then I made three versions of it in CAD. Straight down pin box, flush with the front pin box and extended pin box. Then I rotated all three through various turns, 25 degrees, 45 degrees, 60 degrees and 90 which you see. 90 was where the rigs were closest to the car and guess what, that distance is identical for all three situations, half the width (102 inches) of the trailer, 52 inches. So the rule I applied in designs was 5 feet (60 inches) from the center of the ET head at minimum. The further back the pin is under the fifth overhang, the shorter the overall length and better handling of the whole setup, but it has no effect on the clearance, it's the same.

None at all, unless they were replacing airbags and did not re-bolt them. The bolts are 3/8-16, the threads in the airbags are aluminum, incredibly easy to cross thread. Bolts are engaged with fingers, if you can't finger thread them do not move on to the wrench. The bags are tilted (on purpose), because it's an arc that they follow, they are aligned straight for threading in a very particular spot height wise. I'm guessing they did it for some asinine reason and gave up, because it's not easy to put it back together.

Moving along Next step to see if the trailer likes this setup I think it does, clearing the Jeep will not be an issue, I would venture that ET could come few inches forward and make the truck shorter.

We are having fun now. Daniel and I visited his machine shop this morning. Next meeting tomorrow morning In the meantime I cranked the old SolidWorks and came up with this.

Larry, just a case of unrequited love.

I watch the "views" counter on threads, pretty good indicator if folks are interested in what you have to say, whether they reply or not. We had few trolls over the years, we beat them down pretty quick, though.

Cory, if you give me too many complement, my wife might tell you to stop because I'm impossible to live with. I think she's there already. It's been a long journey of over 20 years of learning and doing. There was a small core of people who started this HDT movement then, Jack Meyer, Mark Bruss and others who "invited me into their circle" to learn, to do and gain confidence. If you had a chance to attend the HDT Rally you'd see that it still continues at much higher and extensive level, but we never forget, cherish and fawn over the newbies and first timers who show up. We truly make them welcome, because we were all there at one time. I offered to help Daniel because he reminds me of myself 20 years ago, a real scrapper not afraid to tackle anything, but also humble enough to find people to ask questions or get help.

Yes it does. However, I did not start this thread for self aggrandizement, I have a practical reason. Daniel is a very interesting person and a good planner. Learned about an ET hitch and Jackalopee and then sought me out for an advice. Took the advice sought out local resources and got to the point you see in the picture. Wanted to know if "he did good" and wanted to know if his ideas about the bed building were solid. So I suggested that he come over and we'll talk. He's got good ideas, but couple would have given him grief if he did it that way. Bed being too short, was one of them. We'll meet again next week for a more "formal" design review. He also found a nuclear reactor welding certified welder in Port St. Lucie to do his welding work. My welder from ET days has gone on to other profession so I will be meeting this welder also. I need a welder to prototype the ET Baby parts I got from Youngs. Besides, it should be a neat project to follow and post it's progressions. On the other thread there is a discussion that there isn't enough projects post, this could be one more. Not many conversions are done to carry a car lengthwise, this would be another. So there are challenges about clearing the ET, rear ramping, trailer clearing, etc. Should spark some interesting discussions.

Dave, it's good to hear that your pair of glands we were discussing, although aged nicely, still produce sufficient testosterone to drive your youthful desires. I must confess possessing a similar state of mind, my almost eight decades of existence notwithstanding. I was moving the hitch building accessories to the new storage/shop including the mag drill. Holy smokes, by the last count I drilled almost 20 thousands holes with this sucker and it's predecessors, I could hardly pick it up. Planet Fitness advertises $10 bucks per month, time to sign up.

Old Goat got a phone call this morning. The gentleman picked up a Jackalope kit few weeks back, was waiting for an ET to be delivered, lives next town over in Florida. "Can I come over and talk about things? Can I bring the semi". I said, "my neighbors are well acquainted with semis in my driveway, bring it over" He had the frame extended and ET mounted, wanted my opinion and tips on the Jackalopee mounting and wiring and the DirectLink wiring. He added about 5 feet to the frame and wanted to know if his classic CJ5 would be OK in front of his fifth. The 25 foot long measure said, "it's either dead nuts on or an inch short", horse puckers. We formulated and attack plan, he will extend it again 14 inches, then he'll be back in my driveway with my mag drill which hasn't seen any "real work" for years. Also we discovered that the DirectLink folks did not give him the correct OBD harness. It's fun to feel useful again.

Cory, I've done a guide how to do this on this forum before. I'm going to re-post the updated version of the routine in a new thread, watch for it. It's a little complicated on this forum, this is where the Facebook has a plus. They probably have a similar sequence except you don't see it, it's buried in their algorithm. So posting visual crap in Facebook is much simpler.

Or resurrect and old project?

Just a deep dive into RV.NET: Photo Upload & Post which Jack posted in the guide, once familiar with it one becomes a banshee with the photos.

The other advantage of this forum is that when topics or thread get started, the conversation continues until concluded and exhausted and can be brought back from past pages for more discussions. Facebook posts have a lifespan of copulating butterflies, you have to check back daily not to miss anything important and even then it gets overwhelmed with trash, response, then responses to responses. And it takes forever to find it again.

Occasionally I go on the Facebook HDT forum to provide an intelligent answer to an intelligent question among pile of salutation, dumb ass stuff and the likes. I don't remember who said it that social media provided an outlet to people who have nothing useful to say. So they have the volume, I prefer this volume and the in depth discussions. I bet you we have a larger volume that the posts may suggest, it's the people who lurk, learn and choose not to post the inane stuff.

Larry, the "Baby ET" is specifically designed to take care of the 350, 450, 550 and 3500, 4500 and 5500 market. The "Super Pickups". The Big Three have been evolving the hitch puck mounting systems in their beds for several years and it's been a real pain in the ass of ego BS. Dodge was first with the biggest puck span and also a dealer system for actually upgrading their older Dodge pickups to their puck system (they had upgrade kit with detailed instruction, the bed had to come off). Not sure if they still do it or just put it into new trucks only. Ford was next and obviously they wouldn't copy Dodge, they came up with their own puck mounting system with a smaller footprint. Chevy was the last to the party and guess what theirs was even smaller than Ford (same in length, narrower in width), they tried it for couple of years and it was as warmly accepted as a skunk at the party and I heard it's now the same as Ford's, but I can't find any "official info" to confirm it. Youngs (popuphitch.com) makes all kinds of adapters, but didn't have these so I offered to design them. For Dodge And for Ford and Chevy, since the length was the same, you just re-bolt the latches into the narrower width. You can see those in their website https://popuphitch.com/our-products/5th-wheel-baseplates/ They haven't made any of the double ones, they want to see if Chevy indeed comes to their senses. One interesting tidbit, at least they all settled on one latch design (Dodge's). Don't re-invent and screw around with something that works. My initial reaction was, "why don't I design the Baby to plop into one of these and the mounting is done"? Darryn thought that it was too complex (read costly) approach and I agree with him, I can do it with heavy duty tubing welded directly to the hitch bottom. So there will be two versions initially for Dodge and Ford, who knows about Chevy. The mounting will look similar to this. The air supply is another issue. I'm exploring small compressor addons, but that is not necessary if there are air accessories on the truck, like air suspension, helper air bags on the springs, etc. Do you have anything like this on your truck?