Nwcid

17 minutes ago, usbusin said:

I think the answer is; they have a heavy pin weight to load the rear axles and this also unloads the front axle.

When they have a load or when they are empty?  

They still need to go one direction empty.  I know either a low boy or the back half of a log truck loaded still had a decent weight, but not like if they are loaded.

13 hours ago, Star Dreamer said:

Yes you can add water tanks to your truck. Size would depend on your final configuration of your truck.

APUs are not necessarily quieter than a Onan, go to a truck stop at night and listen to the trucks with them running next to you. One nice thing is they run on diesel and as long as you have fuel in the truck they will run. The Onan unless you pay the money for a diesel one, will either be gas or propane which means you need to find a way to fill it's tanks at the truck stop.

If you want a longer vehicle than the smart, consider getting a Toyhauler with a larger garage. We can haul our 4 door SUV in our Dune Sport Toyhauler (we can fit a full size van if we want). A longer truck to carry a longer vehicle may not work as well boondocking. As others have commented, the front axle weigh a lot and can easily get you stuck if you are not careful.

I know what a reefer trailer sounds like and that is way louder or the truck ideling.  I am not sure I have ever heard an APU, I will have to pay more attention next time. 

I already have a 38' toy hauler and that is unlikely to change anytime soon. 

I have a ton of research to do on truck length still.  I appreciate the input. 

13 hours ago, jkoenig24 said:

"Standard" HDTs as far as I know, are NOT generally designed for "off road" use. The tires usually found on HDTs really want to be on hard pavement. I expect an HDT could be modified with tires that are more suitable for off-roading. Before spending a lot of money, I'd recommend that you insure that the HDT you buy WILL go the places you want to take it (and be able to get back OUT). Have you seen the Heavy Haulers Resource Guide? LOTS of good information therein. Link below

 

PS: My HDT is a Class 7 Freightliner based Super-C diesel puller. I've gotten stuck in a KOA on WET GRASS.

 

http://www.hhrvresource.com

Of course they are not, nor am I planning on climbing to the top of the tallest mountain with it.  As you said I have been stuck on wet grass before and having 4x4 fixed that.  While they do make 4x4 HDT, that is not a practical solution for what I want to do.  We do however we don't want to limited to pavement. 

I have not seen that page, I will do some reading over there also. 

6 minutes ago, steiny93 said:

From an expectation perspective:

HDT's are horrible off road; think worse then a two wheel drive pickup.

Aggressive tires, chains and a locker will help; but with the heavy front end and no weight in the rear it's a problem.

 

My opinion: If you need to use 4x4 currently you will be stuck with an HDT in the same conditions.  The real ick being getting an HDT unstuck is significantly more work then getting a pickup unstuck.

Again we are not trying to use this in the extremes, but I also don't want to be limited to paved roads since that is not what we do.  There has to be a happy medium there somewhere.  

How to all of the logging trucks make it in and out of the roads that are worse than I am planning?  How to they get heavy equipment in and out of the woods?  How do trucks make it on and off job sites?

36 minutes ago, rickeieio said:

Your tires will be very old when they start to show any significant wear.  Our truck had good tires when we bought it in 2010, and after 50k miles they still look great.  The loads are so light (when tandem) they'll never wear out.

Is that for highway tires or more aggressive ones?  I am sure with highway miles and highway tires they would be hard to wear out. 

53 minutes ago, Av8r3400 said:

Tandem Inter-lock and diff-locks will be mandatory for you.  I wouldn’t singe with your plans in mind.  I would also consider higher traction tires rather than the quieter highway tires on most HDTs. 

This also makes sense.  

What kind of life do the higher traction tires get?  I am tired of going thought a set on my dually every 30,000 miles and I am not running super aggressive tires. 

11 hours ago, Randyretired said:

One problem with a HDT is the weight of the front axle on soft ground.  It is not uncommon to have 10,000 to 12,000 pounds on the axle.  If those tires sink it is like an anchor.

I built my HDT bed to load the real axles for more traction.  It also has two air locker axles and we have been on some pretty tough FS roads.   This truck  does pretty good but if the front axle were to become buried all bets are off.  It is not a 4x4 but when pulling our 5er we have been able to get out when others required 4x4 to move their trailers.

That makes sense.  Obviously these units were built to have heavy pin weights to balance them out.  I am not expecting 4x4 performance, I am just trying to get an idea of what I can expect.  

I like to be as prepared as possible/practical. 

11 hours ago, Darryl&Rita said:

For the trips you describe, keep the dually. Use an HDT for eating highway miles, or as a stand alone Class C motorhome. 

Unfortunately that does not fit the type of travel we do.  This year we spent 5 weeks out in WA/OR/ID/MT and only stayed in 1 campground.  The only reason we stayed there is because that is where the people we were UTV riding with that weekend were staying.  

12 hours ago, Star Dreamer said:

Get a set of chains for the HDT, you may need them. Yes,  1st gear is very low but if you haven't weight on the drive axles, they will break loose easily. Suggest getting an HDT with a locking rear end and with the interaxle lock so you can tie both axles together. Many trucks just have the interaxle lock and not the diff lock.

You can easily get stuck with an HDT on wet grass too.

My question about 1st being low was not so much about traction, but it was about appropriate speed on rough roads. 

For anything with wide tires like dually I will always have a set of chains.  I also have drag chains for my trailer. 

I will make sure to look for one with the diff lock. 

While I do not use that program I do use a lot of mapping programs.  If the program uses downloaded maps or material get as much memory as you can.  

Over the years I have found a table in the 10" range is a good size being not too big, but big enough to be easy to read and interface with.  

I am getting ready to replace my older version with this one, https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Galaxy-Tablet-Silver-Renewed/dp/B07VX9RQRG/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=10'+samsung+tablet+128g&qid=1598883981&refinements=p_n_feature_nineteen_browse-bin%3A9521919011%2Cp_89%3ASAMSUNG%2Cp_n_size_browse-bin%3A7817239011&rnid=1254615011&s=pc&sr=1-7

Just make sure to get some kind of protective case.  I am replacing mine because it does not have enough memory.  I also dropped it one to many times and now have a cracked screen. 

I know there is a ton of different configurations for HDT trucks.  As I think about many of the reasons I would like a HDT I have some questions. Of course all it takes is the concept, time and money to create anything but looking to see if others have already done similar things. 

We boondock a lot.  One thing I would really like is to be able to spend longer times on location.  It would be great to add at least a 100 gallon fresh tank and at least a 50 gallon waste tank.  Is there room to mount something like this below a deck?  

I don't think I would add an APU, but I might look for a truck with one already on it.  I don't think we will use the HDT stand alone very often but having one would do a few things for us.  It could pre-heat or cool the cab on travel days.  Also if the truck is not connected to the RV, it would keep the batteries up so we dont have to shut off the fridge if we are only stopping for a day or two.  Last but not least depends on a couple of things, but using the charger to charge the RV.  How much fuel does an APU use and how loud is it compared to the 5500 watt Onan built into toy haulers?  My though was in the rare event we have "neighbors" it would be quieter and use less fuel. 

Adding to the battery portion, can/should the HDT batteries be used to add additional capacity to the RV?  I know starting batteries are not the same as deep cycle, so I am not sure how much capacity they have.  To do this I would run a separate, likely 4ga, power wire between battery banks.  Between 50 amps of solar or the 125 amp charger when the generator is running, plus the possible APU would be more than enough to keep them in good shape.  Also being interconnected would allow the fridge in the truck to stay on while we are connected. 

Last thing I can think of right now, is carrying a vehicle.  I understand the popularity of a smart car, but we don't need to pay for an additional vehicle that is only used with our HDT.  Are there other smaller, popular vehicles that can be used without creating a ridiculous length deck?  I think I have seen some "ramp" systems where you pull up at an angle to reduce space.  Is there a limit to the angle a car can be transported in?  I think most of the time it would be used to haul our side by side but when we get to traveling longer times having a car would be nice. 

If there are good links for reference I am happy to check them out. 

I am just starting down the path to HDT.  I live in the PNW and we have at least all 4 seasons.  We are in the process of moving from sometimer's to summerer's, most timers (still quite a few years off).  This means we will have our house and can not just chase good weather.  

While I do not intentionally go out in weather where I will need to chain up my 4x4 dually, I keep a set on board.  With that said we will and do travel during normal (for the PNW) winter weather and often need 4x4 on the county roads when hauling.  These are also the same roads I dive my front wheel drive car on using all season tires (not studs).  We typically boondock and like do find nice out of the way places to go.  Typically these will just be FS/BLM type roads.  I there are a few times I put the truck in 4 low, not because we need the traction, but to gear down and dive slow in rough ares.  From time to time I have had to use 4x4 in wet grass or after a rain storm in the right (wrong) kind of soil that gets very slick.  

I have not decided if I want to stay double or single axel yet.  With the weight an HDT is made to haul is it a correct assumption that 1st gear would allow you to "creep" along at a very slow pace?  How does being single vs double effect traction in the conditions I describe?

While I am asking about singles vs doubles.  Does it make a noticeable difference in fuel milage?  I know there are more tires on the ground and you are pushing more gearing. 

4 hours ago, rpsinc said:

So how do you manage the need for a generator when at night or in inclement weather?  I am assuming your generator is NOT auto or remote start.

I am not sure what you are asking here. With only parasitic loads I typically have 5 amp draw.  I have just over 300 usable ah (based on the 50% rule).  So with only parasitic loads and no charging that gives me about 60 hours.  During a typically day having TV's on, lights, computer and accessories for work, and basic "living" I draw around 20-25 amps which still would give 12 hours with no charging.  Once the sun is down it is typically only a few lights and 1 TV.  The laptops still are being used, but unplugged.  During this time the typically draw is around 11 amps, which would give me 30 hours with no charging.  I do sleep with CPAP and often with a regular fan set on low.  I have never looked at the amp use during this time.  In the morning my batteries are still usually 12.3 volts. 

4 hours ago, rpsinc said:

Are your calculations for AC running consumption including battery storage capacity?  I read of another 5er with 2000W of solar, 8 batteries and run mini split as needed while boondocking without any need for generator, unless multiple days of insufficient sunshine.

Your first question is not how it is factored.  You need to determine how many amps your load(s) draw.  I will use what is a semi common battery bank which is 4 FLA or AGM 6v deep cycle batteries that give a total of 450 AH with a cost of about $800-900.  With FLA or AGM not drawing below 50% will give the longest life of the battery bank.  This gives you 225 AH of useable power.  If you have an item that draws 10 amps  you can run it for 22.5 hours.  If you have an item that draws 100 amps you have 2.25 hours.  There are some other factors for high draw vs low draw items but I am tying to keep it basic for now.  

Back to the 100 amp load, with a full battery bank.  If your charger, solar or otherwise, puts out 100 amps, you can run continuous with no loss or gain on your batteries.  If your charger only puts out 75 amps, you now have a 25 amp deficit.  Since you had a 225 AH bank you can now run your 100 amp load for 11 hours before your batteries are at 50% because only 25 amps are being drawn from the batteries.  So you have a net loss of power. 

This is where many people get in trouble and if I understand this part of the question right.  If you run your batteries down, you need enough charging capacity to run the load and enough excess power to charge the batteries.  

Now we will do the same math with different numbers.  Let's say your battery bank is at 50% and needs 225 AH to fully charge.  You are still drawing the 100 amps, but your charger is putting out 125 amps.  Now 100 amps are going to run your load, and 25 amps are going to charge the batteries.  Since you need 225 AH it will take 11 hours to fully charge the battiest.  Now you have a net power gain. 

I see the reference to split systems but I do not know what that is and do not have time to look it up right now.  I can talk about the rest though.  With 2000 watts of solar (roughly $3000) they have just over 100 amps of charging at peak performance (only a few hours per day).  You do not say what kind of batteries, but with that kind of solar it is likely lithium which are typically 100 AH per battery.  This gives a total of 800 AH.  With lithium you can draw down to 80% giving a 640 AH of useable power.  Lithium still run almost $1000/battery so that is $8000.  So you can use the math above to see how long they can run.  Also it is very likely they do not run AC 24/7, but I could be wrong.  Also depending on what units they have the draw may vary, each of mine draw about 150 amps. 

4 hours ago, rpsinc said:

I dont have a sufficient solar system in place and am working on moving to a fitting design, so "inquiring minds want to know"

Typically I am only drawing down my batteries about 30% on a routine basis overnight.  At peak performance my solar puts out 50 amps of charing.  If I am only drawing 20 amps for living the other 30 amps is going into my batteries which charges them back up during the day.  In the morning we often use the coffee maker, microwave or toaster oven.  Each of these things also draw 150 amps but are only used for short periods. Again the solar makes up for this most of the time.  In the evening if we have not gotten a good charge then when we make dinner we run the generator for about an hour and my inverter has a 125 amp charger.  This allows us to use our cooking items and top off the batteries.  

Overall this is a math problem.  You need to know how much is going out (load(s), how much storage you need (batteries) how much you need to put in (charging), and how much you are willing to spend.  You can easily spend $20,000 on a full system, mine is about $5000 and I did the install, or you can buy a portable generator for under $1000.  My generator is built into the toy hauler.  All have advantages and disadvantages and you need to research what fits you needs.

I hope this was helpful. 

Generator is going to be your least expensive option.  

A 15k AC takes uses about 150 amps of 12v power to run. 

So to run 1 if you were using solar and batteries it takes a ton.  For each 100w of solar you get about 5 amps of charging at peak so for every 1000 watts you get about 50 amp meaning you would need 3000 watts of solar, at peak to run 1 AC.  If you want to run it over night then you also need enough battery capacity for that,  150 amps x 10 hours means you would need 15,000 AH of batteries, just to run one unit.  Keep in mind, you also need more solar to charge the batterie bank the next day.  

So while this is possible, it is not practical.  While I do have a moderate battery bank, and 960 watts of solar when I need AC the generator get started. 

It is great fun.  You just need to understand how the systems in your unit work and what limitations they may have when not hooked up.  

Of course your other option is to set up to boondock.

We are well set up for boondocking as that is what we do over 90% of the time.  It is rare that we are in a campground, too many people. 

2 hours ago, SuiteSuccess said:

Ok this getting old and forgetful has a real downside.  My wife said I told the story wrong so let me see if told her way makes more sense.  Awakened at 4:00 am with inverter alarming.  Inverter alarm button silenced it only for 60 secs.  Inverter “off” button would not turn off inverter.  Only 120v circuit supplied by inverter is refrigerator so it alarmed also showing no power.  Inverter display showed 0 power output.  She said we still had power to the ac and lights.  I did not test any plugs.  I turned off shore power at pedestal and then was able to turn off inverter using off button.  Waited ten minutes, turned on shore power, inverter came back on, and inverter showed 120v output and frig was happy again.  Seemed as if transfer switch glitched during this episode and wouldn’t accept input either 12v from batteries or 120v from shore power to produce any output.  Has never recurred but if it does want to isolate the inverter so 1.  I can turn it off while shore power is on 2.  If I can’t turn off the inverter then the alarm continues to come on every 60 secs.  I don’t want to choose between ac or an alarm.  

Now we are getting somewhere.  When you say the "inverter showed 120v" I am assuming that means you have a digital display.  If that is the case you need to look up the manual for your model of inverter and look up the Fault Code.  The codes start with an E and have a 2 digit code after that.  

Depending on why the unit is faulting, it will not shut off since it is a warning and you have to cut the power to the unit.  While it is possible, I find it hard to believe there is not a breaker of some kind on both the 12v side and 120v side.  This would be the proper way to disconnect it from power. 

1 hour ago, Shawn Patterson said:

I would suggest joining the FaceBook group as well as there are over 6,000 members there.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/HDTRVs/

I did join that one, also, https://www.facebook.com/groups/1752108481675511

3 hours ago, SuiteSuccess said:

Thanks, for the info. This inverter/charger is in my trailer not the truck.   When I say “jump” I basically meant how could I continue to get shore power into my coach in the event my inverter completely failed.  I had a glitch with it right after buying the trailer where it alarmed at 4 a.m. and would not allow power even into the coach through the inverter.  Acted like the internal transfer switch had failed.  Had zero 120 or 12 v output.  It was flashing and alarming and even the “off” switch would not turn off the alarm or inverter. Unfortunately don’t have the code here at home.  Had to go outside, completely turn off shore power, wait 10 minutes, turn back on and all reset and was fine.  Talked to Xantrex  on phone next day and they had no clue why it alarmed but said several folks had same type of episode, but they offered no fix...just a gremlin.  So if that situation were to occur again and it would NOT reset, how would I get power into the coach?  Somehow, I would need to completely bypass the inverter so was thinking might be a good time to go ahead and rig that manual switch up during this Covid downtime.

I am sorry, I read the question a bit wrong.  That makes a lot more sense.  

The only way I know of, having worked with my own and ones on ambulances at work, you would have to disconnect the input and output 120v wires and connect them directly.  

If the internal transfer switch goes out there is no way to override it. 

In theory you could make a permanent bypass line with some sort of breaker, or disconnect inline.  You would just have to make sure it was a secure disconnect that could not accidentally come on. 

30 minutes ago, sdixon747 said:

Welcome to the forum. I would recommend that you come to the National HDT Rally in Hutchinson, KS October 11 to 17. Get all your questions answered and plenty of hands on time too. 

That would be nice.  That is a long way from the PNW and we are not that free yet.

I have been hauling a variety of trailers for many years.  I currently have a 17k, 38' toy hauler and a 2016 Chevy 3500 dually.  I know I have plenty of capacity to spare with this configuration, but I'm starting to get frustrated with the maintenance costs and performance.  I am at 60k and need my front brakes done again.  I might be imagination, but I feel like from time to time my shifting is getting rougher.  Overall ride is better then my 2004 version, but still leaves a bit to be desired.  Topped off with the fact I am in the PNW and average about 8 mpg.  

I have been searching as much as I can about HDT and most information keeps pointing back to this site so I thought I would join.  

We have moved to a point in life where we are not just doing short trips anymore and can take off for month long, or longer trips and looking to do is safer, and more comfortably.  

I have a ton of questions but I will break those out into individual questions instead of word vomit.  If I ask a question that has already been answered I am happy to be given a link to follow.

I am not sure what you mean by "jump"

You have inverters, which take power from a 12v source (input) and make 120v (output).  Typically these are not wired into a 120v system so you have to plug the item(s) you want directly into the plug ins on the inverter.

Next you have inverter/charger, which is what it sounds like you have.  These have 12v and 120v inputs along with 12v and 120v outputs, so they are directly wired into a system.  With this system when you plug into 120v shore power it "passes" though directly to the outlets.  If you unplug from shore it automatically "transfers" using the 12v to invert to 120v power.  

Also when you plug into 120v shore power the inverter/charger uses the shore power to 12v charge your batteries.  I am new to HDT, but it  is very unlikely that you have a standalone 12v converter like trailer as there is no need.  The 12v items in the truck run directly off the batteries and charge when the truck is running, or in your case with the inverter/charger.  Also most converters (not all) still need a battery to work properly to supply 12v power as most converters are basically a battery charger. 

None of my trailers that have had inverter/chargers installed had converters, or at least ones that were still hooked up as there is no need.