oldjohnt

Glenn, while not knowing all the exact loads, I'd ask what are the chances of and how long and how often would the mini splits be running at max while AT THE SAME TIME say the microwave, a coffee maker, a hair dryer, a toaster etc (high current appliances) be running??? As a pure "guess" (no way of knowing sitting here) I suspect there's a darn good chance that 8800 watt Magnum(s) system you spoke of will suffice. Of course, a Killawatt meter and specs and an energy audit could provide an answer, I'm not a fan of running devices at the very top end of their ratings for extended time periods...….Of course you're gonna need proper transfer switching and panel and Neutral configurations.

Again, I'm NOT any Solar expert or mechanical/thermo engineer so take this with a grain of salt, see what the experts have to say.

God Bless and Merry Christmas to you and yours and all here

John T  

Glenn, back to cooling, if I recall correctly the heat generated is 3.41 BTU per Watt, so at 17,000 watts that would be 58,000 BTU (similar to maybe 1/2 of an x sq ft  house furnace). HOWEVER I just don't envision any full 17KW being used all at once for any sustained time period. That's the maximum CAPACITY yet allllllllllll that much energy use at once is unlikely in my opinion. Sure a person could make all the exact measurements and calculations figuring in the size of the enclosure and its thermal character and figure out how much heat is generated that needs to be extracted BUT IM NO MECHANICAL OR THERMO ENGINEER AND SMART ENOUGH TO DO THAT. Still I strongly agree with your idea of using a metal (versus wood n cloth) enclosure and ventilation and cooling, but sorry, I just have no idea  how much is needed...……..Maybe the mechanical and HVAC minded gents can address your cooling concerns ???????????  

PS as a pure guess if you're running strictly off your battery and say all your big RV loads were running (AC's etc) you could be pulling lets use a guess and say 3000 to 5000 watts (NOT anywhere near 17,000) that would mean 10,200 to 17,050 BTU of heat generated at the battery which needs extracted out of your metal enclosure. (unless you dont care if temp rises inside it how much???)  What it takes to do that may be simply fans and venting, it depends on sooooooooooo many unknown factors like volume and insulation and the ambient temperature etc...Heck no sense in OVERthinking all this, I bet if you use a metal box with an open vent on one end and a couple 12 VDC muffin fans on the other it may (subject to actual loads) suffice BUT NO WARRANTY OF COURSE you gotta do the math to be sure and/or see how Chevy handles it...........……..

 John T

11 minutes ago, GlennWest said:

Yes it is. I also been kicking around the idea of cooling the volt battery.  Not that I think it's needed

Glenn, Congratulations, at least you're thinking and concerned about cooling the battery, I've seen some folks just stick 4 or 5 Battle Born Lithiums under a couch (not even in a metal enclosure) and be done with it ????????  Actually cooling isn't real simple, one has to know the watts of heat generated,,,,,,,,,,,the volume and thermal characteristics of the enclosure space and then compute the CFM of air flow etc etc etc . That's a mechanical and thermodynamics question NOT for me an electrical person lol but a sufficient sized metal enclosure with "adequate"  (however much that is???) fan forced ventilation of some sort will surely suffice and has to be better then under a non vented wood/cloth sofa right??.

NOTE in the event you camp in cold climates THEN KEEPING THE BATTERY WARM ENOUGH FROM FREEZING is another important consideration !!!!!!!!!!!

I hope the solar experts and mechanical (heating/cooling) minded and Lithium experts will weigh in, this is getting above my pay grade lol 

John T  (page 16 of the latest Escapees magazine picking an old banjo)

One huge battery, its gonna take some "serious" copper (adequate ampacity) and over current protection to connect the battery to the Inverters but I'm sure you will handle it Glenn. Gee its fun for the rest of us to spend YOUR money lol

John T  Still in Austin but headed to a warmer Florida after Christmas

9 hours ago, GlennWest said:

I plan to use a chevy volt battery complete. I am aware of the golfcart fire. going to build a metal box for mine. It is sealed in a metal box originally. 

Glenn, I have attended a few seminars, read and researched (still no expert by any means) the use of a Tesla or Chevy Volt battery in an RV. Sure there can be potential hazards, but if you study what Tom  Morton (Mortons on the Move) did (and several other solar experts) you will gain a lot of insight. To protect and prevent many typical associated hazards he utilized an array of protection devices to shut down in case of overheating, over charging, low charge state and low temperature along with the standard over current and fire protection. While many are satisfied with and "get by" with less hazard protection, FWIW I like your idea of a metal box enclosure. I have seen some stick Lithium batteries in a wooden enclosure say under an interior wood/cloth seat, but that's NOT how I would suggest. I think a metal enclosure with adequate ventilation is a good plan which has to be better than a wooden/cloth enclosure WELL DUH. With proper overcurrent, over or under temperature, and charge monitoring,  the battery in an adequate vented metal enclosure sounds like a good plan to me even though NOT a solar expert......…....    Wood or metal enclosure ????? ITS YOUR RV YOUR RISK AND YOUR CHOICE

PS How many Amp Hours of energy storage will you end up with?????????? 

Hope you have a Happy and Blessed Merry Christmas, good questions good thread you started, I'm glad to participate and look forward to other opinions regarding a metal enclosure.

John T

6 minutes ago, Lou Schneider said:

Or go with 25 ft. of 6 gauge wire between the combiner and charge controller for a 1.1% voltage loss and an overall worst case loss of 1.6%.

Lou I agree and would use AT LEAST 6 gauge. If one figures the absolute max and best conditions with bright sunlight direct overhead  in ideal conditions (yeah right how often does that happen in the real world lol) and lets use for example say 45 amps,  6 Gauge would suffice HOWEVER AND SUBJECT TO if 45 amps just happened to be the "maximum continuous" current (which I doubt meets the definition in this scenario) I never designed to no more then 80% of the wires ampacity IE in the situation IF (likely not here) there were 45 "continuous amps" I would up the wire in that case to No 4. Bigger wire = less voltage drop and bigger is better DUH but practical situation and how much voltage drop one can tolerate enters into the decision...….

1 minute ago, GlennWest said:

was planning on #4 welding lead to controller. I have a lot of that on hand.

 GREAT IDEA GLENN welding lead has better flexibility,,,,,,,,,,, better vibration resistance,,,,,,,,,,,,,,good insulation quality and integrity PLUS you will get less voltage drop then using 6 gauge which is still the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM I RECOMMEND REGARDLESS

 Youre gonna have one good system, congratulations, keep us posted

John T

39 minutes ago, GlennWest said:

So I could just wire like the diagram, panel to panel. Then run 2 lines, one positive, one negative to box for penetration. 

Glenn, sure simple straight ladder wiring will "work" and I'm sure many are configured that way and no problems were encountered. Once you make up the five sets of two in series if you tie the resulting + and - together at a combiner/splice box (one wiring method others will work) you can then run two big wires (3500 watts at 77 volts is around 45 amps)  + and - down to your controller. HOWEVER its still electrically "better" (even if not a  "huge" difference) if all the panels were equally loaded which is achievable using the wiring methods described in the Smartgauge diagrams   http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html. AT THE LEAST (if you don't want to go to the trouble and expense to match things perfect) as they explain if you take the final net output off the + of one end of the ladder and the - off the other end hey that's better then nothing and will improve the balance among the ten panels.

SURE you have plenty of power and using a simple ladder wiring procedure works and there may not be that much to gain by doing it to achieve absolute balance. I'm ONLY describing how to achieve the best balance possible even though less then perfect will certainly suffice. Similar the bigger the wire the less the voltage drop but again overkill can become expensive and cumbersome and harder to install and your chosen wiring method (simple ladder or better balanced) doesn't have to be absolute perfect to still function fine n dandy. Its likely using big enough or bigger wire down to the controller will get you more bang for the buck then achieving perfect panel load balance, but I enjoy describing good methods for those who may be extra picky about such things lol..

Hope this helps, I think you have it down now and will have a great system when finished, keep us posted...……...

FUN thread for the sparkies at least lol

Merry CHRISTmas

John T

33 minutes ago, GlennWest said:

What is 5 strings of 2?

FWIW I agree with Chad, just to put it in different terms Id say:  Simply means you start by wiring TWO panels in series,,,,,,,Next you PARALLEL five of those combinations. Again for "best" (although will still work no problem if not) balance of that ten panel complex arrangement take a look at the Smartgauge tests results. Same as batteries in series or parallel, voltage adds in series but amps adds in parallel...…...NOTE 5 x 2 is ONLY one method to wire all ten panels there are others that can "work: its just how I would choose to do it based on the considerations I cited above

Fud discussion

John T

Glenn, sorry I got here late FWIW here's my opinion. I would NOT want to wire them all in series such that you're transmitting at such highhhhhhhhhh voltage down to the controller due to  A) Voltage withstand and insulation and voltage breakdown considerations.  b) If you stick to more typical 24 or 48 or 96 volt systems, more solar charge controllers are suitable ALTHOUGH my (and many other) MPPT will accept up to 100  or even 150, but I've NOT seen 300 volts !!!!! C)  With that many panels wired in series there's more potential of shading problems. In series if one panel is drastically shaded or isn't producing for whatever it decreases the net output, although you're still gonna end up with some series connections if you go with my plan below...........

 My preference would be to wire them in series/parallel such that I'm sending NO MORE THAN 96 volts down to the controller. One possible method using ten panels would be five sets of two in series. That's 77.96 Vmp using your figures. That's wiring two in series and then parallel five such sets. That will work with the majority of controllers and be safer and more standard and typical when it comes to selecting your wiring and it and connections  and combiner and junction box voltage ratings.

VOLTAGE DROP CONSIDERATIONS: Once you know the max current and wire lengths its easy to use a voltage drop calculator and Id prefer it be kept to a minimum like less then one percent. Sure bigger is better, but I don't like the idea of too big heavy cumbersome less flexible cables all over the roof either.    If you're looking at lets use 3550 watts at lets use say 77.96 volts (just for an example and illustration NOT intended in any way as exact) that's 45 amps in which case No 6 wire "could" suffice for ampacity purposes BUT bigger would give less voltage drop so No 6 from the final combiner box down to the controller looks like the MINIMUM   NOTE this is based on a 5 x 2 series/parallel configuration but this would change if you wire it different !!!!!!!!!!

CONNECTIONS: Although these are solar panels instead of batteries THE WIRING METHOD TO ACHIVE BETTER BALANCE IS MORE IMPORTANT THEN MOST REALIZE. To decide how best to wire them I would definitely take a look at  AT SMART GAUGE http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html  because a simple ladder is NOT the best way so the panels are balanced. To get the most bang for the buck and realize ALL the benefits those panels have to offer I strongly suggest you study their findings even if sure it will still "work" if wired in a simple 5 x 2 ladder, Im sure people have used such for years NO problems HOWEVER the panels are simply NOT balanced as well as if wire correctly.........….YOUR MONEY YOUR CHOICE WHICH I SUPPORT 

Great question fun discussion for us "sparkies" at least lol

NOTE I approach this more from a power distribution standpoint as that's my background Im NOTTTTTTT in any way a solar expert so do as the solar experts say NOTTTTTTTTTT me 

John T  Long retired n rusty engineer and no solar expert so NO warranty, ONLY my thoughts and opinions.

37 minutes ago, Chalk said:

 

Have a dinosaur board now...hope I get three showers this time 🙄🤣

CONGRATULATIONS and thanks for the feedback. FWIW I've yet to have a Dinosaur replacement board go bad. With BOTH that new Ignitor and Dinosaur board you may be good to go for yearsssssssssss now. I think replacing the Ignitor was a good thing to do while you're at it (as well as T Stat), as I've seen many of them develop problems.

  John T

3 hours ago, Chalk said:

Did order a new dinosaur board and trying to return the other.

Even if the old one turned out to be okay (like maybe it WAS the ignitor tip or a bad connection or ground instead of a bad board) a spare Dinosaur board isn't a bad item to keep as a spare !!! But that's still a fair amount of change if its not needed, your call, see what happens... 

John T 

If you smell gas (can feel and/or hear gas valve opening) and hear the clik clik clik  snap snap snap my guess not being there is the board and its  HV coil/transformer (has a wire from it to ignitor tip) is working so Id suspect a bad ignitor tip assembly such as a hairline crack or carbon trace or short or not adjusted properly. On some models I have removed the wire off the HV coil/transformer and replaced it with a jumper wire from there to 1/8 inch from sheet metal have gas off but cycled the heater to see if its producing a spark. If so and the gas valve is being operated again check the ignitor tip assembly.

Also if the ignitor tip assembly isn't well grounded it wont throw a spark. Maybe inspect (rust or loose screws) the mounting screws to insure a good ground. Ignitor tip and/or fixing bad ground or connection is way cheaper then a new board

 As a past used RV dealer and 48 year RVer Ive never had a Dinosaur replacement board go bad yet

John T

On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 6:19 PM, Kirk Wood said:

Never seen that done in an RV. 

NOR have I (seen that done in an RV, fused at BOTH DC ends). The correct method to provide overcurrent protection for the feeders FROM the Battery TO the Load (Inverter in this case) is, of course WELL DUH, at the energy/supply SOURCE, the Battery.  Again, I would think that EITHER Monaco OR the Inverter installer should know that but maybe not lol ??? Is this an after market installation ??? If so and NOT overcurrent protected that lets Monaco off the hook, hard to believe they would run huge cables from a high energy battery supply source and NOT protect them !!!!!!!!!!! 

In addition, the Inverter (which when powered up its OUTPUT becomes an energy supply source for 120 VAC Loads) does supply current to its 120 VAC Loads, so those feeders need overcurrent protection. The Inverter (unless its a combination Inverter/Charger) doesn't supply energy TO the battery, it draws energy FROM the battery and the feeders need protected (at the battery) that run FROM the battery TO the Inverter. I haven't seen any RV (was a used dealer and saw hundreds) that used DC feeder protection at BOTH ends (Inverter and Battery) on the DC input cables, instead ONLY at the battery.

Again if you cant find a fuse FROM the Battery TO the Inverter, I would definitely install one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Subject to the battery energy storage capacity and cables there could be literally hundreds and more amps flowing for a short time until something opened and that can create tremendous heat and fire !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 6:19 PM, Kirk Wood said:

Since power could travel from the inverter to the batteries, or from the batteries, you want one at both ends? 

 My answer is NO.  UNLESS its a combination Inverter/Charger, energy flows FROM batteries (stored energy source) TO the Inverter,  NOT FROM Inverter TO batteries, so overcurrent protection is ONLY required at the energy source IE the batteries. An Inverter does NOT store energy that can pump such out into the batteries, its a load.  Sure, if a person felt compelled to have DC circuit feeder protection at BOTH ends (Inverter and batteries) it could be installed, but there's actually no engineering requirement nor have I seen or done so myself. Still to each their own its their RV and their choice !!

 Hope this helps, best wishes n God Bless, yall keep safe now   

 John T (Long retired n rusty electrical engineer so no warranty, but believe the above still remains true)

In order to properly protect feeder circuits supplied by the battery bank, the overcurrent protection device (fuse or breaker) needs located at the source of the energy/supply  THE BATTERIES.   If its at the load or far away now that leaves all those huge high current capable cables UNPROTECTED  !!!!!!!!!!!! I would think Monaco is aware of that but ???????????????????

I'm sure you're already well aware of this, but the info may help some rookies out there.

You can find a 300 amp (or whatever size is required) fuse or breaker so if ones not there or cant be found at the batteries Id sure be looking for one and adding it if it were mine.

John T

Michelle, from what you posted I'm assuming its a 30 amp RV with one rooftop AC unit correct ???

If so and the AC and ALL other 120 VAC appliances (coffee, hair dryer, microwave, all outlets etc) are working right, I'ma thinking your 120 VAC supply is wired correct and adequate but cant say for sure not being there. Any GFCI receptacles that need reset?????

Ifffffffffffff ??? all above is working correct and its ONLY your battery isn't being charged, a few concerns are as follows:

 1) Is the converter/charger getting its 120 VAC input ??? Check to see if a 15 or 20 amp circuit breaker (powering converter/charger)  in your 120 VAC distribution panel is tripped?? See if there's any blown fuses or resets near the charger that may be open/blown???

2) There needs to be a good solid connection FROM the Converter/Charger DC output TO your battery. MAYBE A WRE CAME LOOSE OR BROKE ??

3) Insure there's no DC output circuit breaker (maybe a reset button) on the Converter/Charger that's tripped?? Are there any ON pilot lamps on the Charger showing ?? Any red push button looking resets??

4) I have seen in line glass or blade type automotive fuses in the wire from charger to battery be blown so look for any blown fuses near the battery or the chargers DC output.

5) Battery voltage at rest and stabilized if charged should be near 12.6 volts but if hooked to a good working connected charger it should rise to the 13 to 14 volt or so range, if not shes NOT charging but DUH you already know that lol...........

Keep it simple, insure 120 VAC to RV and charger INPUT,,,,,,,,,,check for tripped 15 or 20 amp circuit breaker in your AC distribution panel,,,,,,,,,,,,,,check for blown fuses or tripped breakers on or near charger or near battery and for bad wiring connections

 John T 

SUCCESS UPDATE

So, I installed a new 293 Degree Thermal (old was 274 or 284 best I could tell),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Changed oil from Castrol Synthetic to Royal Purple Synthetic (but don't think that mattered),,,,,,,,,,,,,,Got the fuel mixture just a tad richer (Yaromes input), although, she started n ran n powered AC just fine before.....................

Other day it was hot n humid and it ran the AC fine like 90 minutes trial NO SHUT DOWNS              Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyy

But only time will tell

Thanks to all who responded

John T

8 hours ago, Devilishjim said:

J0hn T h0w many amps can that geraccku put out 4K watts ? I know I have 2 - 2k in parrallal Hondas which put out 13.2 Amps each and they really bark starting an AC. and continious running I think they are rated at 3200 watts

Jim, good question, here is some info FYI.

1) If  you're talking straight Watts and as Power = V x I, 4000 watts at 120 volts = 33.33 Amps. 3600 Watts = 30 Amps 3600/120.

HOWEVER that's nowhere near the "rest of the story" You may see KW and you may see KVA ratings on some equipment

2) As you well know the labeled ratings may or may not be hyped up a bit (surely not lol) plus there's the "Continuous" and "Surge" ratings

3) A motor might temporarily draw 5 to 6 times its normal running current at startup which is why an x rated genset might not start an AC  even if it could supply the normal running current. IE they can RUN an AC but they just cant START IT LOL. That's where an AC Soft Start Unit like discussed on here recently might allow a certain sized genset to start and run an AC which it couldn't otherwise.   

4) KW is NOT the same as KVA. KVA is "Apparent Power" while KW is Actual or Real Power available to do work.

5) KW = KVA x Power Factor.  In a pure Resistive circuit the PF is Unity one so KW and KVA are the same there.

6) In a high inductive load such as a motor (like the AC unit) current lags the voltage and you get a lousy less then one Power Factor which is why power factor correction capacitors (current leads the voltage) are added to counteract the inductance and improve the power factor. 

ANHYWHO my Genset starts n runs my AC (like fine for 30 minutes) if I can stop it from overheating or repair any inaccurate thermal or pressure switches causing it to shut down ????????????? Maybe a 293 degree (versus 277 or 284) thermal will allow it to keep running??? As noted an "Oil Cooler" perhaps????

Best wishes

John T

4 hours ago, Yarome said:

Sounds like a solid plan. Couldn't hurt to shoot a little carb cleaner to ensure it's not a sticky needle valve. I doubt it's the AC. Your Generac has over voltage protection so in the event of excessive current demand the genset will keep running... it just stops juice output

UPDATE: I just found a 293 Degree Generac Thermal Switch for my Make Model and Serial Number Genset which I'm ordering Monday from whichever supplier has one in stock. I'm going to go ahead and buy a new Oil Pressure Switch (its in series with thermal right by the oil filter) and replace both and change the oil soon as the parts arrive. I will let yall know if that fixes the premature shut down...Perhaps as suggested an "Oil Cooler"  ????

THANKS AGAIN TO YALL

John T

9 hours ago, Yarome said:

Sounds exactly like an over temp shut off. You "should" have an over temp light on your genset(?)

Could be a few things going on there that could lead to an over temp.

1. How long has it been since the oil filter was changed/checked and are you using a viscosity appropriate for the ambient temps (SAE30)? A synthetic, like Royal Purple, might do better dissipating heat.

2. How long since the carb has been cleaned? Even slight varnishing in the ventura or on the needle valve can cause your genset to run a skosh lean and run hotter than normal. Remove the air filter and blow a "good" amount of carb cleaner into the intake. Don't worry if it stalls your gen. Let it sit for a few and restart it. You can repeat that a couple 2 or three times. A few ounces of sea foam every once in a while can help prevent future buildups.

3. The oil temp sensor (mounted on top of the oil filter housing) may need to be replaced. They "do" go bad occassionally, but it's a real simple replacement. IIRC... your's is likely to have a 270 temp sensor. You might consider going to a 284. 

4. And of course... air flow. Those suck a lot of air so it's always important that there is adequate ventilation. If your compartment is somewhat enclosed the addition of a small fan might help improve circulation.

That being said... Generac's "do" have a bit of a reputation for over heating issues, but nothing that can't be cured. 

 THANKS EVERYONE, I just heard from a retired small Generator repair friend and much of what he said mirrors all of you gents great advice and my own suspicions.......He said he had seen thermal switches cause shut down even though actual conditions didn't warrant it. One switch he found was Part number G075281,             Temp 284 F        LIKE YAROME MENTIONED

Oil was recently changed to Castrol Magnatec Full Synthetic of the viscosity labeled on Genset.

Has a new (about 1 year ago) carb and air filter.

I tried it with the side compartment door open and it made NO difference.

I haven't yet experimented or looked at any fuel mixture adjustment on the recently installed carb. I DO KNOW it could possibly be a tad lean ??? its certainly NOT over rich, she NEVER black smokes nor exhibits any over rich gas odor and plug is a nice warm gray color PLUS she never stalls or coughs when the AC compressor kicks in. I might see if I can richen it 1/4 turn if it has such an adjustment that is ???

MY PLAN after all you guys and the retired gents advice is :    I am going to order that new 284 Degree switch,,,,,,,,Change oil with Synthetic again maybe a different brand this time,,,,,,,,,clean air filter,,,,,,,,,,,,,look into a slight fuel richening,,,,,,,,,,,,,,If all that fails do the extra fan thing which sounds like a good idea to me

THANKS EVERYONE

John T 

  Yeah I know, many are NOT fans of Generac RV Generators, but that's what was in the RV I bought and works good EXCEPT for one problem which I want to ask about. Its a Generac 4 KW Model 4700.

 It starts fine, runs smooth and powers the AC or Microwave or coffer maker or hair dryer all fine, no black or blue smoke, no sputtering, no coughing, nice clean warm gray NON fouled spark plug BUT after maybe 30 minutes if running the rooftop AC IT SHUTS DOWN........No its NOT out of fuel, NO the ignition system is otherwise fine, ITS LIKE A SUDDEN SAFETY SHUT DOWN such as low oil pressure or low oil (full of fresh  oil) and I suspect it may be a safety thermal shut down due to overheating ??????????? It ONLY shuts down after 30 mins of AC use, when its real hot outside, NEVER any other time and AC works fine plugged to shore power.......I have all other 120 VAC loads like fridge and charger etc OFF when I run the AC in extreme hot weather. If I wait maybe 15 to 20 mins it starts right up and repeats the cycle and eventually shuts down again.

Anyone ever run across a faulty safety thermal limit switch that's opening although it shouldn't at wrong temperature ??? Think of reasons for overheating ?? Its clean and free underneath where the screen is where the fan circulates engine cooling air??

What you think is wrong or what should I try ???? When it happens its just like you hit the kill switch IT SHUTS DOWN  grrrrrrrrrrr

 Guess I need to have my meter handy and locate any thermal or other safety limit switch (oil or overheating etc)  and right when it shuts down see if its open !!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

 Sure I like Onans but this is what I'm stuck with lol. If I cant fix it I will deal with that when the time comes. 

John T

The last Onan circuit control board I purchased was like over five hundred dollars and there were NO Dinosaur Electronics or other manufacturers or rebuilders or repair shops that would repair or replace them PERIOD and that was AFTER I tried all the external troubleshooting like breakers or switches or sensors or fuel related issues grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

HOPEFULLY Maybe the Onan troubleshooting procedures can get you by much cheaper.

I ran Onan's of all types and sizes for yearsssssssssss and could usually keep them going myself UNTIL I experienced circuit board problems on the later and new generation units. Give me the old two cylinder MUCH QUITER and smoother 1800 RPM units in the smaller 4 KW gas application.

Good luck let us know how it turns out

John T

12 hours ago, Kirk Wood said:

Wonder what the longest useful life for a fuse might be? I have a feeling that the new style will outlast the old glass ones. 

FWIW I agree. The later blade style fuses have the element better encased inside plastic versus those old glass units with the metal ends over the fragile glass tube. I believe plugging and unplugging them was their worst abuse. The ones I saw still working fine even if 50+ years old looked like they had NEVER been removed.

I'm sure you're  still warm down there in Texas. I came back to Indiana too darn early lol still full timing in the RV.

Best wishes

John T

Yo Darryl, Oldddddddddddddddd Edison looking light bulbs sure are  neat. When I attended a Lighting Seminar at GE's NELA Park in Cleveland Ohio I saw some real antique bulbs................  While I didn't restore any antique trucks or tractors that were 116 years old,  I saw some maybe half that with working original glass fuses !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gotta love antique electrical stuff (To at least look at lol)  

Fun chatting with yall

John T

9 hours ago, EmPeg said:

Thank you Kirk and Old John for your comments.

9 hours ago, EmPeg said:

I do agree that the fuse filament is just like an incandescent light bulb. 

 

 EmPeg FYI while there may be similarities, what you call a fuse filament isn't EXACTLY "just like" an incandescent light bulb. The delicate filament used in an incandescent light bulb operating in a vacuum is designed and manufactured to produce light (and heat by default) when current flows through it, while the thin metallic conductor inside a fuse produces no light but is sized with precision and has the proper mechanical, metallurgical and thermodynamic properties so it melts open upon x amps of current flow over x time. In all my years I've never seen a light bulb last typically as long as a glass encased fuse (years and years) PROVIDED THAT the fuse isn't operated at its rating for too long too often. SURE they can degrade but not so much due to age versus too many amps too long...............HOWEVER I agree with you it may be called "just like" in that too much current too long too often might mechanically/physically stress it to the point it eventually fails, as would a light bulb due in part to the initial inrush current and its temperature changing resistance properties ............

 Regardless of the reason your old one was blown or how old it was, if that new one is working fine and continues to do so for some time, your heating element and other electronics is likely okay YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

   Good luck and best wishes

    John T

2 hours ago, bigjim said:

Sometimes see through fuses can look perfectly good and be bad so always test it or just replace it.

 EXACTLY I've experienced that several times over the years. Even if to the eye they appear complete a continuity check or an ohm meter can still show an open circuit. I used to restore antique cars and tractors and saw a ton of those old glass fuses that were well over 30 years old all ratty lookin STILL WORKING FINE as mere age alone didn't degrade them. As long as they remain sealed against the elements and aren't stressed from over current they can last years and years, and that's more then I can say for some circuit breakers I encountered !!! 

Take care yall

John T