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Wow Ed, That guy is seriously out to lunch. But I now see why it is hard to stay on track rather than following fears or being incapable of changing in light of new information that changed the game. I am sure the last maker of buggy whips was the best. But buggy whips were obsolete and irrelevant with the new fact of the automobile.

Thanks guys! I knew what was going to happen until this week. Now I am not entirely sure what will happen beyond Friday. More and more I am leaning towards taking half off the table and staying long on the rest. I don't have any other place to put cash that is worth putting it. I am sure everyone else does, but I am talking about anything I know, like I followed Tesla years before they went public. It is late and I am bushed. Hope all had a great Father's day. We did here.

Tesla should begin delivering the new model S this Friday. The final week is here and I am having difficulty deciding whether to let it all ride, take half off the table at 38, or taking it all off the table. I am not asking for advice. Several here are following this and some are even in it with me. It is my feeling that since others in the biz say it is a buy that it will be volatile this week especially if they are one day late. I think that buying now will yield a few bucks by the end of the week in profit but remember I am a complete beginner and do not claim to know what I am talking about with Stocks, I just followed this one and the owner from back in the Pay Pal day. Many of you may have watched the historic docking of a commercial capsule launched by a private company succeeding and ushering in a new era of private enterprise space launches and exploration. That company, Space X, is also owned by Elon Musk, the one behind Pay Pal and Tesla. It ios expected that he will bring that company to IPO next year. I will be there too. I hope all have a great week,! (I hope I do too! ) http://www.thestreet.com/story/11584954/1/tesla-motors-inc-tsla-todays-featured-automotive-winner.html?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO http://www.thestreet.com/story/11584954/1/tesla-motors-inc-tsla-todays-featured-automotive-winner.html?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2012/06/15/this-weeks-5-smartest-stock-moves.aspx Safe investing!

Ron, There's no dog in a fight from here. Peterson is predictably predictable and the follow on comments and repartee is more enlightening, as usual, than his narrow views. My like of EVs has nothing to do with the investment. Just like my like of space exploration does not make me an automatic candidate to invest in SpaceX. But I will. The argument for Tesla as an investment is simple. After they said it could not be done and Tesla debuted the Roadster on time in 2008 as a competitor in the super car class, all everybody said was that it was too expensive for the average man. It was a sexy super car class vehicle that was cheaper then the lowest priced sold in the class of supercars, the 911 from Porsche. Lamborghini's and Ferrari's are also more expensive than the average buyer can afford. And they are still in biz producing how many cars per year? Tesla does not need to sell to average Joe anywhere. If they sell 20k cars a year they will be fine and in the black. That may or may not include the Mercedes badged and Toyota badged Tesla drive trains. Why does everybody want them to be GM or to produce enough cheap cars to supply the world? We already have those burning oil and gases. So the price of oil is going down now because the oil investors that run the big hedge funds anticipate less demand so the price is artificial, we knew that. Tesla has nothing to do with it because the big oil manipulators have learned that regardless of Joe average saying the he will park his car if gas ever goes above ( Insert the whole string in your lifetime from the lips of your parents to yours recently $.50, $1.00, 1.50, and when people said over $2.50 then if it ever goes over 3 bucks) and then kept driving and buying it. So the argument that there is no place for EVs because everybody cannot afford them would be like saying the same thing about RVs. Sure some will go out of business. Look who owns Austin and Jaguar now. But I doubt Tesla or the other Supercar makers will go away. Tesla does not have to sell everybody, or even a large percentage to succeed. My goodness if you apply that same standard to one car company they sure could not supply everybody if all the competitors went out of business. Elon Musk has no illusions about that either. The question is are there enough people that want an EV to support them and I think the answer is yes. People whop say no or we will see are badly ignorant because the entire first year's production is spoken for and cash deposits paid in advance for every 2012 model Tesla Model S. Remember they are selling worldwide not just in the US. Tesla does not have to sell Peterson a car. Talk to the folks who own them, read the blogs on their website and then read about how the owners felt about the early EV1 from GM. The word was out to keep them from getting a launch with SpaceX too. I say don't worry, let the folks who want them buy them. They already put their down payments on their cars on order. I doubt you can talk them out of it. The world economy? If they have the money now they aren't making much keeping it in the banks, and many don't want to invest now, so using that cash today is attractive to many. Just like RVing is not for everybody. In a few years we will see won't we? I am buying a 40 mpg gas car as it is a better way to use my money, like investing in Tesla is for me. Again not for everybody.

:lol: I got a charge out of your post! But I wasn't shocked by it. Smitty, No problem! I can say the only reason I stayed in in full and resisted the urge to sell half for the high of 38, again I gave hung in there for 7 or 8 of these cycles with Tesla and I am thinking it is a good risk that they will spike again in the next few weeks. Your position makes as much sense as mine does to you. I am in my mind taking a calculated risk as I could sell at 28.15 where is it is today and make the difference between half my shares at 22.5 and half at 17.5. That would be nothing to sneeze at either. However since I have been passing along what I have done and am going to do with this stock, I just wanted to let all know that the end of what I predicted correctly, minus exact timing, ans come to pass, is almost at an end. My vision ends when Tesla starts delivering their cars. All along I was saying that was the hard decision point. And it is. Barring an inability to deliver the Model S on time, (this Month) which I doubt will happen regardless of the world markets, I then have to decide, likely next week, whether to sell half/keep half, sell it all, or hold it all. I also wanted for everybody to connect the dots between SpaceX, Tesla, Pay Pal, and the owner of all three before IPO of Tesla, and sale of Pay Pal, Elon Musk. And be aware of all that when SpaceX goes to IPO in the next year or two. Few people have this much insight into the past and minds of the owners and results of the companies they invest in, as we do now for this next Musk company IPO. Whether anybody Buys it, stays away, or stays out of the markets because they are still too volatile, all will know SpaceX here regardless. I am glad I did not wait for it first. I expect to have more to invest in it when they are ready. Will they continue this year with Tesla? Don't forget that unlike the other car companies, this whole first year of production is already sold and deposits in hand for every one of them. The next year is a no brainer if they show they can produce the 20k cars they say they can and I think that is also almost a sure thing. Good luck everybody and I hope you are wishing me the same. I will need it!

Two pieces of news. First off Space X (Space Exploration) launched their Falcon rocket and Dragon capsule to the ISS successfully and made history in the process. Even though Boeing and Lockheed fought them with their lobbyists inside the beltway and said that no company could design, build and test a reliable launch vehicle in the short time frame Space X said they would, Space X did anyway. I put this here because it is related to my past posts and those who have paid attention already know how it does. Firstly like Tesla they did what all the naysayers with different interests said could not be done (hoped anyway.) Secondly like Tesla they actually delivered on time with no giant increases in costs. And in both cases Space X and Tesla both did very expensive vehicles and made them better faster, and cheaper than their counterparts in Rockets and super cars. The owner of Space X will be taking it to IPO sometime in the near future. I would watch for it. The reason I think that these companies will succeed is that they take a similar approach to Lockheed's Skunkworks of the 50's which produced the C-130 and the SR-71 in under a year each and both are still flying daily or flyable and retired. They were modeled after Bell Labs and fostered the kind of free thinking not corporate red tape laden engineering and fun for the engineers at work that they made great leaps without CEOS getting in the way or greedy corps. Very much like the best companies from Silicon valley where the dress code is hoodies and T-shirts because the important thing isn't appearance but substance. They have a lot in common with Pay Pal too, a silicon valley company, as well in both management style and value through substance. The news on Tesla is that it along with many others is down and with the worldwide panic may get down to my buy point of 22.5 briefly again. Briefly you say? You bet! See the Model S begins deliveries in the next two to four weeks and once they show they delivered again. As they did when they delivered the first roadsters in 2008 when no one thought a performance all electric super car for less than the lowest priced real super car was priced could even be done poorly, let alone successfully with all the first year sold out in advance and all of the cars paid for, up front, in full. Remember that I am the least experienced person here in investing directly in the stock market. Here is my call with no confidence in the timing only that I believe that these events actually are about to happen. They could take a month or a week, but near term, here is what is going to go down. The stock will follow the decline of the market creating a buy opportunity. Then the first Model S will be delivered and many previous investors realizing that the other stocks etc. are not a hedge against high fuel prices and that there are no havens that will make a profit will possibly jump into or back into Tesla. But regardless, Elon and his company will continue to produce them ad reap economies of scale, eventually producing the elusive family car at family car prices. I do not doubt he will get there. So I expect the stock to be volatile and provide a buy price and sell price in the next few weeks. Timing it? Well don't look to me for that. I should have sold half and took my principal back at 38 but did not. But watch and see if the events don't happen exactly as I posted back almost two years ago in 2010 when I first bought on their IPO. Granted he could die or get in an accident and not be able to lead. But then again I could too! For those who missed it, Elon Musk who owns Tesla, also invented with two friends and sold Pay Pal, and also owns Space X outright pretty much and is a rocket scientist de facto. Not for everybody but like they always say, and folks have difficulty doing, I choose to buy low and sell high. I may lose but not from fear. From miscalculating a product and the demand. But I have not done that often. Happy investing folks, it has become one heckuva buyer's market. It won't last which is good news for some and bad news for others. See even seller's markets never last either. It is a cycle. And it is time for Elon Musk like companies to take over and actually make things happen instead of reaping with no sowing, as the leaders of our industries are doing now. If I were a paranoid I would think that the world recession and lower oil prices are manipulated by big interests to try to deflect Tesla and bring it down. They can't. The genie is out of the bottle. We won't need much oil, sooner than even they think. Watch. It is just part of the cycle. All we have to do is invest wisely. BTW declining fuel prices to even 2.90 aren't going to stop the EVs from taking over the market. To do that the markets for oil would have to deliver sub dollar a gallon gas again and Diesel cheaper than gas as it should be. Did you know that a peppy small diesel in cars would double the mileage we expect from each size now except the smallest and maybe those too? Why only the VW TDI diesel in the US today? Why isn't the Smart Car diesel here and only in Canada. It is volatile and that is when the most money can be made or lost. Up to us if we can.

Hi John, Just read that. Sorry the oasis is fine, I missed a sell then re-buy lower opportunity and am still up ten bucks a share. Good time to buy back for those that got out for a better price and a profit taking. I don't expect any real losses for those of us in from start, until after the Model S debut, if ever. I don't read the bad news posts and don't read the good news ones because I have come to the conclusion that the writers, like all, have a target audience who eats all they serve, and each is specific. I also don't read the positive ones as they are the same. I do not read any of them, as I am focused on this one stock IPO to date. I will also participate in any IPO he has for his Space X company if ever. I think perhaps you mistake me for a stock person of whatever title you want to add to that. I am not anything other than an investor in a specific person and company. I am not a trader, nor an advisor. Nor think anybody should or should not follow me. I don't read any links of the bombasts that are published with their if it bleeds it leads approaches. And today, most take that from either perspective, stay or get in the market, or get out or don't get in now.

John, I don't have any warns and also did not report any of your, or anybody else's posts. If I have an issue I will say it directly and as I have found most folks are reasonable and respond in kind. If it is intrusive and made to me I object to the content not the person. If all I can think of is a personal slur, then I hold my water, as my momma taught me if I don't have anything nice to say, to keep quiet, and wait till I am armed! :lol: John, I don't think you are doing anything but missing the fun even if you were right. For example I almost did as one here suggested in email and take half of mine off the table when it gets high and I almost did that last week. Well then a 4% holder in Abu Dahbi sold their shares and took their profits. This shook the already shaky folks and really made me mad at myself for staying pat. Not because I lost a possible 5 dollar profit over today and then buy back the same number of stock shares, or as I would have done, plowed them back into TSLA of more shares as we come up to Model S debut. Now if anybody wants to play as I have said many times and only a couple have listened, I see no reason it will not go to 38 plus on or up to the debut of the Model S later this summer. So today it is down to 33 plus. So have I lost? Nope, just shaky people losing themselves, or taking less profit than will occur if it goes back to 38 or more. I expect 38 but again if it comes long before the Model S, I will, Like the Abu Dhabi investors did, sell high and hope all panic as they did in this case. I have repeatedly said I am no expert on this. But my opinion is it won't lose and will go to at least 38 by the time the Model S debuts or more. Am I alone in this opinion. Nope, Forbes wrote about it today too: http://www.forbes.co...rtner=yahoofeed This is fun actually. And John I think you are wrong in this way. If we were sitting at an oasis in the desert and I was drinking from the spring and you said it was dry and refused to try to drink, because you have the background and training in spring science, and since you and all the experts you find to agree and you read say it is dry, then it must be and I am mistaken, then you will have proven yourself right as you die of thirst. And I will have drunk deeply. You cannot convince people making money that they are losing money. That's a fact, Jack!

The cycles have traditionally been five years between troughs and the same between peaks for a ten year cycle I have been buying since the beginning of the trough, through the lower prices, and all through the rise until a couple of years ago for my funds, and now a couple of years ago my one stock which fell from a high of 38 to 33 today since last Thursday. An Arab conglomerate sold their shares high and it was a lrage block whioch further scared the rest into selling. As usual I saifd I should sell now a day before it droppesd with the thought of rebuying shares at a price like today but again I didn't, if I did I would find no price drop, just my luck. Anyway I agree on the volatility, but as to your comment and my observation of years and cycles I may have that timing you mention close John, as I turn 60 later this year. Granted I am already retired and set, but I fully expect maturity and stability long enough to cash in. I already have all the property and reserves I need, and no debt of any kind, not even the house or property.

Amen Ed!

Gotcha and Thanks Jack. Going to me about the company is good, about investing is bad. I am just having fun and feel vindicated. But as you said that could change in a heartbeat. I think I am safe at least until the Model S debuts, and will likely not be lucky enough to get another buy opportunity. It looks like with the new higher target and the buy recommends that it will be volatile up and down a buck or two as folks take short term profits and buy again. It seems to repeat this pattern.

OK I have got to say that the Motley Fool is worse at flip flopping than any politician I have ever studied. First they loved Tesla, then they hated them, repeat that cycle a hundred times and that is what they have done with their articles. I read every one and even wrote comments back about the lack of content and the writers perhaps doing their homework instead of comparing the Tesla and the Volt as in the same class of car. Next they will compare them to a regular car because they both have batteries! So today they have the very first article by any of their writers where the man obviously knows who when and where about Musk, and has actually done his homework. When folks say they were lucky enough to have gotten in at 55 with Apple or even earlier, every time a writer in the investment community says thus and so it makes no sense as they flip flop every which way from day to day. I am glad I wasn't taken in by the look up three numbers and make a call based on their market segment and whether they are buying, selling, or afraid to move. Please don't take any of that as a veiled slap at anybody who has participated in this thread here. It isn't. The longer I participate in the stock market individual stocks, the more ridiculous I realize the community is in information dissemination. Or I should say disinformation. I am glad I have one stock, for my one venture in the stock market, and even gladder that the folks who really do their homework in the investment community see what I saw and see in the young company and its leader. I have said before that the company ethics and product are more important to me than just the numbers as i need to have fun and believe in what I choose to participate in building and selling by my investment in them. I am investing in a company not the commentary of my favorite writer. The people and their track record to me is the defining thing on getting me to invest. I find myself subject to also choosing articles i agree with in conclusions, but for me they also need the substance. That screaming guy with the one minute say on his TV show and online is not my cup of tea. I also notice that people like Warren Buffet and the other really successful investors don't go on TV, but do share their philosophy, which is wasted in an immediate gratification world. So today Motley has flip flopped again in my favor but the article is worth reading because they are drawing the same conclusions I am beginning to draw. It may be longer term for me to stay in than the debut and just after the model S. For those that read every fact about Tesla and Musk I posted you can skip this. But I may make that decision when the Model S debuts to let it ride. Just remember I know nothing about the market, and am the last person to listen to about your own money. But this article is really well done, but as said before, is picked because it agrees with what I want to hear. So here is today's Motley Fool "Editor's Choice" Awarded article: Auto Industry to be Shocked by Tesla? http://beta.fool.com...ogyholnk0000001

Bob we will just have to disagree.

Bob, Excerpt: "In fact, throughout our history, PTSD has been called a number of other different names, including: battle fatigue or gross stress reaction for soldiers who came down with PTSD after World War II combat fatigue or shell shock for soldiers who experienced PTSD symptoms after World War I soldier's heart for soldiers who developed the symptoms of PTSD after the Civil War. Unfortunately, before the medical community recognized PTSD as a viable emotional disorder, most leaders and doctors thought it was simply nothing more than cowardice or personal weakness." http://www.psychiatr...ory-of-ptsd.php Your problem with PTSD is based on what personal experience? Your medical degree is in which specialty?Your service time in what branch? I have 27 years some in the medical Corps most in Combat Arms and no, I do not have any form of PTSD. My disabilities are hearing neck and back damage. I am just a sheepdog.What are you? My theory is that it happens when a sheep has to be put in the role of a sheepdog and thinks all are feeling like he does. Sheep are the bulk of society, and wonderful people who make the civilized part work. There are wolves and sheepdogs and they know who they are, only the sheep are confused. Maybe you have read Col Grossman's treatise on it? http://www.mwkworks....dsheepdogs.html

Which article John? The one about the world ending December 21st, or the one about cherry picking commentary that agrees with a belief? Just kidding! I know what you meant. I really think there is a lot to be said for his premise that there is a PTSD like experience which for some can be as bad as a combat trauma. In personality studies and theories from Piaget and his maturational theories to Hirschberg's motivation and hygiene, the premise most accepted and validated by observation is the personality is pretty much crystallized by age 27 and only a SEVER TRAUMATIC EMOTIONAL EVENT can change a person's basic "bent" if you will. PTSD is that trauma from war and the activities associated with participation in the atrocity of killing for non warrior personalities. I thought that the article was dead on in a correlation between the trauma of the markets that were the investor's friend for so long, turning on them suddenly, and leaving some who thought themselves set for life destroyed or set back quite a bit. It just makes sense. Same as relieving cognitive dissonance or the severe stress experienced when our beliefs and our behaviors are in contradiction. We humans have only two choices: Change the belief or change the behavior. Smokers change the belief that they will get cancer or some other disease. Those who quit smoking changed the behavior. Both relieved the cognitive anxiety/distress/dissonance of their belief and behavior being contradictory. I see the same thing in the irrational sell offs when the least little thing scares one person that their money might be in jeopardy and that one person leads all the others like lemmings to sell. That article I posted earlier explained a lot to me about the market too. When anybody has lost a great deal, which is relative to each, it will leave a lasting lesson that may be withdraw to some, and just change approach to others.

Jack I like that perspective. Mine isn't gloomy, another's experience may be, and neither invalidates the other. I did earn a lot of income after I decided to go back to work in 2005. I did almost 5 years and retired again. My company was expanding and I did not want to take another division and end up working 18 a day six days a week. All during the 2007/8/9 time frame I was buying and discussed that here a few times back then. It was a great sustained buying opportunity. When I left my position and the buying opportunity was over as far as I was concerned, I was left with my operating expenses in the performance index account, and a local biz checking account so my people could cash their paychecks locally, and earning nothing in either account. Now those funds would have earned me quite a bit if I were to sell now. I agree that the primary rule is to never invest more than you can afford to lose, and to buy low and sell high. Another one is that no money is lost, or made, until the stock is sold, ad the money is in the bank or another vehicle with little risk. My SH wanted to sell when it crashed and I was buying more. I finally got through that, and am not ahead or behind because I am still in. Ahead or behind will be tallied on the sale of part or all the shares I own at present. Holding and not selling any and I am again neither ahead nor behind, merely speculating. It ain't a profit or loss until the stock is sold. What confounds folks is when to sell. When to hold. Like the song says, you never count your money when you're sitting at the table, there'll be time enough for counting when the dealings done.

John, Why don't you tell us what you really think? I believe that come December 22 the sun will rise and so will I.

Ed, I did read it, thanks so much for posting it! Great short read and makes perfect sense to me. I was doing a hobby consult for a start up out in Santa Clara and making a little in early 2000 while fulltiming until the tech bubble burst in June. But I wasn't invested and the company just went away and went back to a private website for the owner. I didn't lose a job I needed I was retired and RVing. And I paid off my 5 acres and house back in 2005 and actually was working ans making great money and sunk a lot of it into funds in the 2008 and 2009 and 2010 time frame before the prices started to come back. I banked with USAA and they have my funds and they are doing fine. I still had mid 5 figures in the performance index account and was happy with the liquidity AND 4 % until the interest went down to nothing. That was when I realized that Tesla was about to IPO, something I had very much wanted to see. I called USAA and found that every 10k I had in their previously great account was making only 108, so I was looking and was liquid all through when 2008-now happened. So the article did not apply to me, I did not get financial PTSD. Here's an excerpt from it: "Another habit that Statman sees at play is the confirmation bias. It's often used as a way to help explain the widening political divide in the U.S. between Democrats and Republicans. Say you believe that the federal government's debts will cause the U.S. to go the way of Greece. Instead of looking for information that challenges this view, you stick to news reports that confirm your opinions. "If you have evidence that goes against your beliefs, you dismiss it," he says. Statman says it seems some people are looking to confirm a "doom and gloom" view of the U.S. economy. Point out that the economy grew at a 3 percent rate in the last quarter of 2011 and they'll change the subject. Their view, he says, is: "This country is going down the tubes." Boy have I seen a lot of that going on! No matter how bad folks feel about it the market always swings in short cyclical three to five year peaks and troughs, and longer term Secular bull and Bear markets historically. We are about due for the bear market to turn Bull once more, if it hasn't already.

Hey guys, I already told everyone that I was in only for that one company, that does what they say they will and already have, and that I am in at least until the Model S comes out and I don't feel any problems will arise between now and then that will cause me a loss. Maybe another buy opportunity but I doubt it. The last one rebounded the same day and after hours went almost halfway back to where it was the day before, and recovered completely by the following Tuesday. Both buying opportunities I had, the last one I missed, that's right, I missed because I don't watch it every day. What will likely happen is that I will double my money, bail out, and watch it go to 500 a share in five years like Apple did when I didn't buy a large block in 2005. Or watch it crash. But I said from the start what I knew it would do and it has, and what I would do which I have. I bought in less than two years ago twice and again last August for 22 and 22.5 and could have sold out yesterday for 36 plus. But I am convinced it will double 22.5 before the Model S actually comes out. I may take half off the table then, or not, or sell all. My plan and action only takes me to the debut, and then I am in the dark as much as anyone else. But I have made a lot more than the 108 dollars a year per 10k block of money I had in a performance index account. Tens of thousands more. But I would like to be clear. I have no confidence in the market for me, or my ability to wisely invest in it whether you guys are in or out, gloomy and doomy or all in and investing in anything and coming out rosy. I told y'all what I was doing, and what I intended to do if another buying opportunity came, and it did twice but I only was able to act on last August's crash to buy more, as I didn't even see the last one until it was over. I may never buy another single stock again. But you never know. Another company I have followed may come along and excite me.

Jim! Mayan Calendar??

Smitty! Thanks and congrats to you too! I thought about that but I am sure that it will climb at least until the Model S is out and being delivered. It has been my plan all along to make the decision to sell or not at that point. I expect a lot of the same ups and downs we have seen. But it never went over 36 before so I expect some changes but not enough for me to do the same yet. For me I feel more comfortable waiting for another buy opportunity. It may crash again on any bad news and then pounce again . . .er . .I mean I buy more if that happens before the debut is done. This is my first foray into the wonderful world of the stock market, and may well be my last. Not counting Apple in 2005 which I was going to buy at 55 and sink 30k into, which at that time I could lose and not hurt too much, and then I chickened out of it, See I just don't know other companies like I knew Tesla, and knew Apple and their costs and chip advantages with the Intel switch at the time. So I can't be greedy here and lose by staying too long, and that will likely turn out to be a decision I will regret from a greedy standpoint, but one I intend to make as I was going to be happy with doubling my money in less than two years and that appears to be likely. If it goes beyond my making double before debut I will stay at least until they are out, either way. It is fun though. I doubt that with the cost of fuel this will turn sour on us anyway. I don't really speak investment, but for me a really low price is when I will buy more. I am not sure what you mean by a jump in points?? That is why I am not selling any right now. While I expect and hope for a panicky sell off and another buying opportunity, I doubt I will have one so I don't want to sell now and get back in at a higher price, that loses money too. Is that what you meant, and how is that good? (I am asking you if I a understand correctly) But I do understand the bird in the hand.

I have been on that since the beginning too, and await the final outcomes. I read at least two or three articles a day on them and not the chicken little ones alone, although I do read them to see what all the brouhaha is about. Here is one that pretty much agrees with my position on it being long, and buying more on the volatile lows if any more present themselves. http://seekingalpha.com/article/390151-tesla-6-reasons-why-put-options-look-undervalued-relative-to-the-risks?source=yahoo It may present with one more panic sellout and subsequent buy opportunity before the Model S debut.

I don't know either. If true, I would imagine we would or will see more substantial reporting, with names and locations. I know that RV owners make a stink all over the Internet when they have manufacturer lemon problems. I would expect the same from luxury carowners of any type. Perhaps that is forthcoming?