David-and-Cheryl

1 hour ago, heitjer said:

Sorry for not being clear. Its was my understanding that the officials made 100% sure this was my owned trailer and it was not used commercially or as farm equipment to be considered to be used under this non commercial Class A type. It took a while for them to allow the test drive to start. They asked for the title and the registration details for the trailer and the truck and went inside for 30 minutes to check on this before we could start the test drive.  

Wow. So I guess if you borrow someone else's RV, they're unlikely to ask, but if you rent or borrow something that looks like a commercial vehicle, it's a no-go. Good to know.

3 hours ago, MrTuxTravels said:

Hi All, I just filled out the CDL-2 form and will choose certification 4 an RV.  However, I have not purchased my RV yet and am trying to get my class A license before I leave Texas for a few months to visit family up in Pennsylvania. I plan to purchase my RV during that time most likely in that area so want to get the license now.  My plan was to rent a dump trailer that has a GVWR of 14,000 lbs from Big Tex Trailer World to take the skills test since its pretty close to the Fort Worth testing center so that will minimize my risk driving without the proper license to the testing site and possible insurance not paying if there is an accident.

1. Since I have to certify on the application that I'm getting the license for an RV, will they allow me to take the test with a dump trailer?

Just guessing here, but I think the answer is yes. Your certification on the CDL-2 applies to the purpose for which you'll be using your Class A license, not specifically to the vehicle you're using for the test. You're just taking the test in a vehicle different from what you'll ultimately be driving. You may have to explain this to your examiner, though.

3 hours ago, MrTuxTravels said:

2. Also, which option would a dump trailer even fall under on this list?

Not sure which "list" you're referring to. If you mean the list on the CDL-2, it doesn't matter--as noted above, that certification applies to how you'll ultimately be using your license. You should check the RV box.

By the way...does your tow vehicle have a GVWR of at least 12,000 lbs? It would need to in order to qualify as a Class A vehicle in combination with that dump trailer. If it's under that, then the combination is a Class C, and in that case I don't know that they'd let you take the test in it.

If it were me, I wouldn't bother renting the trailer and taking the test before you get your RV. When you come back to Texas with your new RV, plan to take the test shortly thereafter in the rig you'll actually be driving. In the extremely unlikely event that you get stopped before then, you could explain that it's a new-to-you RV purchased out of state and that you're aware of the licensing requirements, but couldn't take the test until you had the RV. It's simpler and more in the spirit of the law, if not the letter. My guess is that a law enforcement officer would just be happy to know that you're aware of the requirement, which most RVers are not, and intend to comply with it as soon as is reasonably possible.

David

3 hours ago, TexasPSDX said:

Needing to get Class B license to drive my motorhome.  I know I take Sec. 14 test, but do I also have to take Sec. 6 Towables for my Class B license?

I don't know for sure with the Class B.

As of last spring, all Class A applicants are required to take the Texas CDL Combinations Test, which covers the material found in Section 6 of the Texas Commercial Motor Vehicles Drivers Handbook. It would make sense that this would not be required for Class B applicants, since most Class B vehicles are so classified because of the weight of the powered vehicle (the motorhome itself), and not because they're towing anything. But "make sense" and "Texas DPS" don't always belong in the same sentence.  I'd suggest being prepared for the Combinations Test just in case. It's not that much more work to study for it.

Please let us know whether you do or do not have to take the Combinations Test so I can update the information for others. Thanks and good luck.

David

2 hours ago, ShaunB said:

I am extremely stressed over this skills test as I am no full timer just a weekend warrior and most definitely not a professional driver. I’m considering changing my driving test to a different location. I’m wondering if anyone has experience at this veterans memorial location. 

Shaun, I'm glad you found the post and thread helpful.

I can't shed any light on the testing at that location. But really, don't stress over the driving skills test. The maneuvers are basically like the regular Class C test, except that you're taking it in your rig. Drive carefully and don't hit anything, and you should be fine.  Good luck.

David

9 hours ago, Big5er said:

Here is a flow chart that may help. It says "CDL" but the weight listed is the same for the class of drivers license needed for an RV. 

The chart in the original post is probably easier to parse, since it does not include the CDL-specific limitations. Also, it's directly from the Texas regulations, although at a glance it looks like Oklahoma's is similar.

Here's the chart again for reference. Find the GVWR of your tow vehicle or motorhome in the first column, the GVWR of your trailer or toad in the second column, and the combined GVWR in the third column. The last column shows the license class you need.

2 hours ago, GhTh said:

I'm going nuts with this license issue for Texas.  So, if my tow vehicle has a GVWR of 11,500 and a fifth wheel with a GVWR of 11,500, no class A license is required?  My logic is that to qualify for a Class A, your total GVWR must be OVER 26,000 AND have a towed vehicle over 9,999.  My total GVWR is 23,000, so I don't meet the first requirement. 

You are correct. You can drive the rig you described with just a normal Class C license. It would fall into the third line of the chart in the original post: tow vehicle <= 26k, towed vehicle (trailer) > 10k, and combined <= 26k.

David

12 hours ago, Pdepperschmidt said:

Our recent Class B test did not include anything on air brakes.  It was all about the Chapter 14 Special requirements.  This was in Marble Falls.  In the skills test the examiner did want to see that the air brakes came up to full pressure.  But I bet that was more about his hide than a test.  

I think you're the first Class B applicant to report since the air brakes test requirement went into effect last May. I wonder if the new requirement for the air brakes test applies only to Class A applicants? Not sure why that would be, since most exempt Class As are pickups (without air brakes) towing large trailers, while most Class Bs are motorhomes, many of which have air brakes. 

More likely, you just got lucky with an office that forgot about the new requirement. I'd be sure to study the air brakes section of the driver's manual before going for your Class A test, although it sounds like you're familiar with those topics anyway.

7 hours ago, Big5er said:

Go wander over to the HDT forum. I personally know of 4 that have been stopped and ticketed. One of them was ticketed by one of my co-workers....for 68 feet. 

I was wondering about that too. It seems like it would be relatively easy for a law enforcement officer to visually identify a rig that was 10 feet over the limit. Of course then if you don't have the proper class of license, you'd have two violations. 

Wow Paul, I just looked at your website. That trailer is really impressive! I can't believe you can stuff a Kitfox, Jeep Wrangler and boat all in there! Just curious, what is the placarded GWVR of the trailer, and how much does it actually weigh fully loaded?

Let me clarify what qualifies as a Class A vehicle, because there are two ways to get there:

1. Tow vehicle with GVWR less than or equal to 26,000 lbs. towing a vehicle with a GVWR more than 10,000 lbs., but only if the total GVWR of the combination exceeds 26,000 lbs. (If the total GVWR is less than that, it's a Class C combination.)
2. Tow vehicle with GVWR more than 26,000 lbs. towing a vehicle with a GVWR more than 10,000 lbs.

You could meet scenario #1 with a dually towing a heavy non-RV trailer, as chirakawa said above. The usual scenario, of course, is a pickup towing a fifth wheel or large travel trailer. That's why we needed a Class A in Texas. 

Scenario #2 is less common because most passenger vehicles towed behind motorhomes have a GVWR under 10,000 lbs. But it would be faced by a larger motorhome towing a large trailer, which is apparently what Pdepperschmidt has.

So to answer Pdepperschmidt's original question: I don't think I would take a 75' long combination to a DPS office for a driving test. Chirakawa is right--they should not let you take the test in an illegal rig, and it wouldn't be too hard for them to figure out that it is too long. (Although I guess you could try...the worst that would happen is that they'd refuse to administer the test; they don't issue citations.) I would first find out if they'll let you take a Class A driving test in just your motorhome, not towing anything at all. Drivers of larger motorhomes who tow vehicles four-down have to do this all the time, because you can't back up with the toad hitched. If they ask, just tell them that you'll be towing a large pickup truck, but you're not bringing it because it can't be backed up. Failing that, I'd see if someone will lend you a pickup truck that will tow your trailer, as Chirakawa suggested. As long as the truck's GVWR plus your trailer's GVWR exceeds 26,000 lbs., the combination meets the definition of a Class A. A third option would be to rent a 10,000+ lb. GVWR trailer and tow it behind your Dutch Star for the test, as you said. Either of those approaches would work, but I wouldn't go to the trouble until you know that they won't give you the test just in your motorhome.

Also, you asked about the Chapter 6 Combinations written test. I don't think you will need to take that. Exempt licenses don't have endorsements for combinations, etc. like CDLs do, and to date nobody testing for a Class A has reported that they were required to take the Combinations test. As far as I know, the only additional written test you have to take (which you probably already did) is the air brakes test, which now seems to be required for all Class A & B exempt applicants.

2 hours ago, chirakawa said:

If your intent is to get a Class A eventually, there is no need to get the Class B.  The Class A covers everything the Class B does..............plus the 10,000 lb. trailer towing.

Yep, good point. And the tests are the same--so if you have a motorhome, there's really no reason not to go for the Class A to begin with.

12 hours ago, Pdepperschmidt said:

Thanks David and Cheryl for your fantastic overview of the licensing process.  Your article in the Escapees magazine is dog-eared and highlighted.  It really helped prepare Karen and I for the testing.  Ours was done in Marble Falls as we were staying at Sunset Point Resort.  We both passed the written for the Class B Exempt without much fuss.  I passed the skills test, but Karen needs to retest based on an affinity to kill curbs.  She is timid on using both lanes in right turns to small 2 lane streets.  In her case there were cars at the stop signs and she tried to cut it short to miss them.  In my case I was dinged for not using a turn signal when starting the test and pulling away from the curb on the street where we were parked.  I was also supposed to signal when pulling up to the curb again at the end of the test.  

I do have a question.  What will it take to get a Class A exempt now that I have the Class B?  We now will have a trailer that we will pull behind the 44 ft. Newmar Dutch Star that will put us in the Class A category.  Is it effectively starting over?  

I'm glad you found the article helpful! And "affinity to kill curbs" - love it! 😁 (If Karen is struggling with the driving, she might consider getting some instruction from RV Driving School. They have instructors, mostly former truckers, all over the country, and they really know what they're doing. Cheryl found it incredibly helpful--it was money well spent. Remember the goal is not just to pass the test, but to be able to drive safely in real life.)

As for going from the Class B to Class A...that's a great question, and I really don't know the answer. I'd guess that you wouldn't need to re-take the written tests, because you've already passed them, but that you WOULD need to take a new driving test in a rig that meets the Class A vehicle definition. But only DPS can tell you for sure. 

You could try calling the DPS customer service center in Austin. It's hard to get through to them by phone, but if you do, they're generally pretty knowledgeable. Failing that, I'd suggest going over to your local DPS office--preferably where you'd take the test--and talking to someone there.

Once you do get an answer, please share it here and I'll update the FAQs with that information. Thanks!

David

21 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

The trick is to recognize the "that is similar to a Class A or Class B ...." means that if your state is okay with having Class C licenses good for 50,000# RVs, then Texas recognizes that they are "similar" and you can drive your RV in Texas during your visits there.   And other states have different interpretations of when to require enhanced licensing - for example it is length in California, not weight.   

Barb, I'm not sure that was the intention of the statute as written, but I definitely like your interpretation of it! And that certainly does seem to be consistent with how it's enforced. 

David

15 hours ago, docj said:

We own property in TX but retain our SD residency.  We are not employed in TX nor have we done anything else to compromise our SD domicile status.  Owning property doesn't constitute an intent to become a resident.  If you have the means you can own homes in as many states as you wish, but you're still a resident of just one of them.

That is correct. If you were ever challenged, it sounds like you'd be able to prove that you're not "residing" in Texas. 

It's unfortunate that Sec. 521.029 uses the term "residence" instead of the more accurate legal term "domicile". It muddies the waters even further, actually. Subsection (a) begins, "A person who enters this state as a new resident...", which to me at least means "with the intent to domicile in Texas". But then subsection (b) twice uses the phrase, "has resided in this state for more than 90 days". So does "resided" mean "domiciled", or just "lived in"? I think you could make a pretty compelling argument that the provision is intended to apply to someone who changes their domicile or "permanent" residence to Texas, but the language is less than crystal clear. As a law professor of mine once asked, "don't you think that drafters of statutes put their pants on one leg at a time, just like the rest of us?"

David

11 hours ago, Blues said:

It's not really all that straightforward.  Here's the Texas statute:

"Sec. 521.030. RECIPROCAL LICENSE. (a) A nonresident who is 18 years of age or older and who has in the person's possession a license issued to the person by the person's state or country of residence that is similar to a Class A or Class B driver's license issued under this chapter is not required to hold a Class A or Class B driver's license issued under this chapter if that state or country of residence recognizes such a license issued by this state and exempts the holder from securing a license issued by the state or foreign country."

Arizona doesn't require any sort of special license for any RVs, so Arizona RV drivers will have a regular old Class C license.  That doesn't appear to be "similar" to a Class A or Class B license in Texas, which require a written and driving test in addition to what is required for a Class C license.

I think it could be argued that if an Arizona-licensed driver can legally drive his RV in Arizona, he can legally drive his RV in Texas, because any other interpretation just wouldn't make sense.  And that's what you're saying. 

But to get there, you have to go outside the actual words of the statute, so I don't agree that it's straightforward if one has the ability to read.  And in fact, actually reading the statute (instead of just believing people when they say your license in one state allows you to drive in any other state), and considering only the words in it in a straightforward manner, will lead to a very different conclusion.

Wow, I must admit I was a little alarmed when I first read this. Bravo, Blues, for doing the research and finding this statute.

Having said that, I don't think this section of the Texas Transportation Code actually calls into question whether you can legally drive a rig in Texas that would otherwise require a Texas Class A or B license as long as you are legally licensed for that rig in your home state.

What this section of the code says is that Texas will recognize out-of-state and foreign country licenses similar to our Class A and B licenses as long as the issuing state or country also recognizes Texas' licenses in those classes. It's an affirmative statement of reciprocity. That's subtly different, however, from the negative version of the statement, which would be "a person holding a license issued by another state that is not similar to a Texas Class A or B license is required to hold a Class A or B license issued by Texas". If that was the intention of the statute, it would have said words to that effect.

This section of the code was actually amended in 1995 as part of a long series of "non-substantive" revisions. The reviser's report sent to the Texas Legislature at the time noted that the law originally had a subsection that read as follows: "The purpose of this section is to extend full reciprocity to citizens of other states and foreign countries which extend like privileges to citizens of the State of Texas." The reviser explained that this language was being dropped "because the substance of the subsection is clearly a reciprocity provision". (Maybe it wasn't so clear after all? )

As others have noted, it is a well-accepted principle among the U.S. states that if you are properly licensed to drive your vehicle in your state of residence, you can legally drive that vehicle in any other state. I've searched but cannot find specific legal authority for that. There is, however, the Drivers License Compact, intended to support the concept of "one driver, one license, one record". The DLC provides that traffic offense convictions in other states are reported back to and enforceable in the state that issued the drivers license. 44 states, including Texas, have joined the DLC and thus have agreed to share conviction information with each other. Again, the DLC doesn't expressly say that all the member states must recognize each others' licenses, although it is certainly implied.

Here is an interesting effect of the DLC: if you're licensed in State A and convicted of a traffic offense in State B that would not be an offense in State A, State A will take no action against your license. So let's say, for example, that you're licensed in Florida, which does not require any special licensing for non-commercial RV drivers. You drive your rig in Texas, and a DPS trooper issues you a ticket for driving your rig without a Class A license. That ticket would be reported back to Florida, but Florida would ignore it because no such offense exists in Florida. (Which is one reason that you'd be unlikely to get the ticket in the first place.)

On the other hand, if you're licensed in a state that does have something similar to Texas' Class A or B license, the Texas reciprocity law requires that it be honored in Texas, so once again, you should not get a ticket.

One word of caution: the situation changes if you're licensed in another state and then reside in Texas for more than 90 days. At that point, Sec. 521.029 of the code requires you to obtain a Texas driver's license. Moreover, the burden of proof is on the driver to show that they're not actually residing in Texas. So I'd be very careful if you're licensed in another state and then spend a prolonged time in Texas--you'd want to be able to show that you're just visiting, not establishing residency, and that gets into the whole domicile issue.

You're right that trying to parse all these statutes is anything but straightforward!

Final note: I'm a "recovering attorney", so I have to add here that these are my own opinions and not intended as specific legal advice. If you ever find yourself in a questionable legal situation, be sure to consult an experienced traffic attorney.

On 11/19/2018 at 9:34 PM, vannchan said:

I have just had 2 DPS offices tell me (including the one in Livingston) that both chapter 6 (concerning air brakes) and chapter 14 are required.  When I went to take my written test in September, all they gave me was chapter 14.  When I went to take the driving test, they would not let me take it since I had not taken and passed chapter 6.  I will now have to go back and take and pass the chapter 6 test in order to be able to take the driving test.  So be aware that this is a requirement now.

Sorry you had that happen. What they told you was correct, assuming that your rig has air brakes. It's a new requirement as of a few months ago, so apparently some DPS offices haven't gotten the word yet. For anyone else, if your rig has air brakes but the office where you take the written test doesn't give you the air brakes test, I'd just politely insist on taking it so that you don't end up in the same position as vannchan. 

On 7/24/2018 at 2:28 AM, txntravlr said:

David & Cheryl, I cannot thank you enough for taking the time to post (and update!) the information on the Class B licensing. My anxiety toward having to take the full CDL testing -- and pre-trip inspection -- was extreme. I am so glad to hear that I won't be tested on the full gamut of information contained in the CDL booklet which I originally believed due to a lack of information on the correct licensing and testing for RV's. While we only own a Class B, my parents have a 45' that we will be rallying in this fall which necessitates the licensing. Again, many thanks to you and everyone who has contributed to this thread -- you have saved me much undue stress! (Now, I'm just praying I can pass with an updated level of confidence!)

I'm so glad the information was helpful! Thanks for letting us know.

David

On 7/15/2018 at 9:14 AM, sbpierce said:

The system works exactly as you describe.  I was given a slip of paper after my 2nd test with the link and instructions.  After booking my original drive test, I did the following:

Booked my original appointment 

Cancelled my original appointment 

Rescheduled my appointment

Continually checked for better appointments and changed when available

Searched other offices for better appointments

Cancelled appointment and rescheduled at another office for more optimal time.

The system works amazingly well, and changes as soon as someone else cancels their appointment.  I got an appointment for July 5 on July 3 at 8pm that wasn't available when I checked 30 minutes earlier.

Hope that helps

It does! I'll use that information update the original post. Thanks!

A Texas RVer told me on Facebook that the DPS has just greatly streamlined the skills test scheduling process. According to him, after you pass the knowledge test, a DPS employee will register you in the new Texas DPS Drive Test Scheduling System. You'll log in with your driver's license number, date of birth and email address. Once logged in, you can choose the license type you're testing for and the geographic area in which you want to take the test. The system will then show you available dates and times for your test and let you book an appointment.

Although I can view the login page for this new system, I can't actually try it. If you have recently or will soon take your Class A or B Exempt knowledge test, please reply and let us know (1) whether you were instructed to use the new system, and (2) exactly what the procedure was once you logged in. I'll then update the original post with this additional information.

It's not yet clear if all DPS offices are using the new system, so if you don't get specific instructions for it after you pass your knowledge test, be sure to ask. If they have no idea what you're talking about, you might still need to use the scheduling procedure in the original post.

-David

1 hour ago, sgrol said:

Would you have a link to the study guide? Thanks.

http://cdlstudybuddy.com/combinationvehicles.php is one. There are quite a few others; you can Google "Texas CDL combinations practice test".

1 hour ago, sbpierce said:

The test was twenty questions and I believe you have the same 8 hours allowed.  The minimum score is 70%.  The online study guide makes it a breeze.  I got a 100 in less than 10 minutes.

Thanks!

Could someone who has taken the CDL Combinations knowledge test answer these questions for me, so that I can include the information in the original post?

1. How many questions are on the Combinations test?
2. How much time were you given to take the Combinations test?
3. What is the minimum passing score for the Combinations test? (I assume it's 70%, but want to confirm.)

Thanks,

David

1 hour ago, sgrol said:

Son and myself took the Class A exempt test in Spring mega center. We were both required to take the combination test (sec 6) in addition to the sec 14 test. Neither of us were prepared for the sec 6 as the forum we were on was adamant that sec 6 was not required. We both argued with our different DMV people to no avail and flunked the sec 6 part. Wish I would have found this forum earlier.   

I have just updated the original post to indicate that the Combinations test is now probably required, as of April 18.

7 hours ago, Reido113 said:

When it came time to research what needed to be done to attain the Class A CDL Exempt license I was blown away at how difficult it is to find information. David and Cheryl Thank You! This was the post that pulled it all together for me. ...

Kudos again for this thread. It really was the best and most thorough explanation that I could find on the web. It's nice to know that one is now legal when it comes to duallys and big travel trailers that put us over the 26,001lbs.

Thank you for your kind words! I'm really glad you found it helpful. One of these days, I'm going to turn the original post (with updates from the community) into an article for Escapees magazine. 

By the way, if you haven't already joined the Escapees RV Club, I hope you do. You'll become part of a one-of-a-kind community of RVers.

David

On 4/27/2018 at 9:03 PM, Wanderers said:

Maybe David and Cheryl have more references to the code they can provide.

Oh how I wish I did. But as far as I know, the information about which written tests you have to take is just "oral knowledge" that is not available in writing anywhere that's accessible to the public.

Getting to Livingston is unfortunately often not practical, given the size of our state. So my best advice is to visit the DPS office where you plan to take your written test, and ask them if they know what test you're supposed to take for the Class A or B exempt license. If you get the right answer (even if you have to consult with a supervisor to get there), take the test. If you don't, and they want you to take the air brakes test or something else you shouldn't have to do, maybe try visiting a different office if there's one close-ish to you.

David