etcetera

I am trying to decide which way to go, get a 16-passenger shuttle bus and convert it or get a turn-key package via a class C RV, around 25'.

Why shuttle bus? They have most overhead room. About 7' if I understand correctly. I am almost 6'3", most vans even the high top ones are a deal breaker with 73" clearance. 

A box truck is another idea, but the deal breaker here is that the cabin and the rest of it are not linked. Kind of a PITA.

Trying to weight pros/cons. I get that a class C has a neon sign on that that screams "Someone full-times in it", but it surely is convenient to get a plug-and-play device.

OTOH it might be worth it to get a shuttle bus and build it exactly how I want it. I've never done it so it would be a first. Would realistically take me 6 months to do, I think. Unless I hired someone. 

There are tons of shuttle buses here, parked all over and are practically invisible.

As are class B sprinter vans.

I take the gigs that come up, that become available. You don't always get to pick exactly what you want/ where you want it. That's just life.  Take what's available *now* instead of pie in the sky later.

I've had great luck with:

Northern Virginia,  Philly, Chicago, Milwaukee, Denver, Seattle and the Silicon Valley.

I've had no luck with: Richmond VA, Phoenix AZ, Kansas City, Charlotte NC, Boise Idaho. The entire Missouri for example is a dead zone, but I would not mind living there otherwise.

It's not that they have no work but the employers are fewer, competition is more brutal, pay rates are lower, the demands are greater, they are more picky. Like Phoenix that came at the bottom of the pay scale for major metro areas. About half that of DC area. I get that the real estate is drastically lower, but not that much lower. I get the lifestyle thing, but. Boise Idaho is another disaster zone. There is about one major employer, work is hard to get, real estate is relatively nuts compared to income. Montana is the same or worse.

I was surprised however how much work WV had, supposedly a lot of gov stuff has been moved there.  Might be a more sane option. Get a job making 30% less which ends up being a huge raise over DC.

I got stuck in the DC area due to my brutal divorce, couldn't even move out of the county. Now that the war is over, it has drastically increased my choices. Including the RV thing.

6 hours ago, rynosback said:

There are not many CGs around the DC area. Land is expensive and traffic is horrible. You could be 15 miles to your place of work and it would take you an hour to get there. If you can find an apartment  to rent for under $1000 a month it is going to be in a very sketchy neighborhood. I know this as I spent the first 46 years of my life around DC. Just like finding a CG around San Francisco, land is stupid $$$$ and there are not many CGs there. 

I am familiar with every single CG in the DC area, or aware of. None are viable. For a long list of reasons.

Stealth-camping in the parking lot of your gig is the most viable option thus far.

A travel trailer would be another neat option, if I could find a place to park it at and then move once a week to get to where I need to be. I've done that before. You can get a viable one for 10K and a nice one for 20K and up. All in all, class B or C seems a lot more practical / viable.

Finding CGs in DC or New Jersey area is like looking for a theater in rural Idaho.

The RV vibe just doesn't rhyme with this area. The lifestyle itself doesn't.

9 hours ago, sandsys said:

California cares. They have massive problems with people who move junk campers near the ocean then can't move them out again because they didn't maintain them.

Linda

 

There are all these videos of Venice beach, etc. with their massive population of "full timers", tent cities.  I do not think  a van/box truck/sprinter van or even a "real" RV will be at their top of their priorities list.

I've lived on the west coast, their attitude seems to be a bit more tolerant. I still would not consider residential areas even there.

I actually kind of sort of regret moving back to the east coast. Seattle I liked the best. Not as hot as in California, great climate, etc. They are somewhat more tolerant to the RV vibe than the colonial east coast, old Virginny. Or so it seems. There are plenty of rural places here in NC, WV, Southwestern VA that has a pretty similar vibe. But you have to go out there. Plenty of counties all over that have no building codes, or don't care.

I am stuck in major metro areas due to career choice.

If I get remote gigs, that's a game changer in conjunction  with  if Starlink becoming a revolutionary option that we sorely need.

My job can be 100% remote. Yet the corporate structure is that they like to see in the chair 8 hours a day. That has become to change however, I had a gig last year where they mandated remote work. I did suffer with the 20' commute from bedroom to the desk.

There are all these videos of google employees living in RVs in the google parking lot.. and it's a common phenomenon. You know how much they make and it's still not enough. With Silicon Valley income you get Silicon Valley real estate prices.  There are very few houses for sale in the Silly Valley.  Apartments seem to go for 4 grand a month. I did get an offer with Apple and declined it because I could not find any housing at all. No rentals, no apartments, no rooms. We don't have any, and don't know when we will have any. And rooms rent for insane amounts also. Then you get to deal with roommates and shared bathrooms. It ended up being being a huge pay cut from where I was. In retrospect I probably should have taken it anyway, just to move around. But really the main condition that makes it viable is not paying exorbitant rent, meaning stealth camping in something and redirecting saved 4 grand a month towards future house purchase or land or whatnot.

Really that's the same in all expensive metro areas, it's just more acute in Silly Valley or DC area or New Jersey but the west coast is more friendly, as the the impression I got.

Midwest doesn't pay as well as either coast, even Kansas City is a relatively small pond compared to either DC or Seattle or Chicago. The prices are a lot more sane however.

I got stuck in DC dealing with my divorce that ended with me gaining full custody and  the ex told me, pretty much take him anywhere you want.. even Alaska if you want.  My son prefers either VA or Texas, so there is that.

I have an office gig now, hence the need to married to DC metro area.

However I get flooded with remote work. I have worked remotely last year. It had tons of pluses and some cons too. Harder to adjust than in the office. Always get distracted.

Interesting. They have a vision. 

1 hour ago, agesilaus said:

Are there friendly counties near DC? You are projecting the situation in the NE metroplex onto the rest of the country.

I am not. I thought I was pretty clear, that based on my experience, in the west things were much different. Both in terms of attitudes and in terms of what you could find. Beginning with mid-west like Missouri but really even going to the West Virginia next door is a drastically different experience than DC metro.

Full timing and the whole RV concept is just not a thing in the mid-Atlantic. Yeah, but not really. And I can't move. Not yet. So I am stuck having to adjust to the realities around me. RV people are an anomaly. The ones who have an RV they also have a real house and don't full time in it. You have to go to central VA or Southwestern VA to see a a difference.

Places like Nevada and California struck me as anything goes and we don't care.

Does everything have to fit into a category?

I am sharing my frustration 

I am giving advice to people who may be in the same situation and in similar circumstances to mine. So they can avoid some of the issues I encountered.

I wish someone had told this to me 20 years ago. Maybe then instead of a TT I would have pursued some other ideas.

It's talk around the campfire. The process is more important than the goal and sometimes there is no solid well-defined goal.

14 hours ago, Jinx & Wayne said:

Supply and demand.  DC has lots of places visitors want to see.  Baltimore too, and that is pretty close.  Land and house prices are out of this world.  That means few campgrounds and higher prices.  We stay in the area twice each year to visit the grandchildren.  We've found two campgrounds.  Both are expensive.  Both are half an hour from the family and further from Washington and Baltimore.

I was just looking at the prices of campgrounds around Zion and Arches NP's.  They are no bargain, either.

Wayne & Jinx
2017 F-350 diesel, dually
2006 Carriage Carri-Lite 36KSQ

My personal circumstances are such that even if I could deal with the long commute from a CG and deal with their high prices, I still could not deal with leaving my RV unoccupied and without supervision for about 12 hours. 

When the economy goes south, lots of wildlife will break in and empty it. Not that it's particularly valuable stuff but some of it is irreplaceable.  When you are a single person, that's a game changer, it changes everything and both expands and limits one's option. I don't have a spouse to stay there and watch things.  An RV that looks like it's unoccupied for 12 hours per day, day after day is an easy target.

I don't have the option of removing 100% of  everything valuable off-site.  Like computers and hardware and whatnot.

It's actually a lot safer to take your RV with  you, where you go, in my case it's work. Then it's 300 feet away from you at all times.

23 hours ago, Randyretired said:

Some enjoy campgrounds and some of us prefer more seclusion.   We setup for boondocking and consider a campground only when we have to.  Different RVing for different preferences.

A converted full size van would work well. 

However if I suddenly moved west, I think it would lose its purpose and a "real" class C would work better. Places like Colorado seem to be more accepting of the lifestyle, the whole vibe there is totally different than some place like Philadelphia or DC. I mean you don't have to blend in there.   Unless you are downtown Denver.

The content of the CG is a relatively minor  problem compared to the proximity issue.

There are never conveniently located given a 9-5 gig, IME there is always a 1.5 hour commute. 

Not everyone in the RV full timing community fits the same paradigm.

Then there is the cost. If you are going to pay $800-1000/month for a 20'x40' strip of land, year after year, you might as well buy your own property in a friendly county where they either allow RV full timing or overlook it. $1000/month will buy a lot of land. Like several acres. Or at least one. It's a better deal than renting. I know many counties in rural VA that do that, but admittedly none are close to DC area.

Some CG  owners/admins are obnoxious, walk around, check whether everyone's tags / inspection /etc. are expired. It goes against the principles of RV freedom and do anything you want, go anywhere you want vibe. Again, great for visiting kids if coming from out of town but that paradigm does not fit a lot of people at all.

All I need is a bedroom after 10PM, a converted sprinter van fits my needs a lot better. This area has myriad of them.  Amazon delivery vehicles and many others.

I work in IT, that just means contracts come and go, sometimes you are gone like the wind. Zero job security, the only job security is in moving.

11 hours ago, Chalkie said:

You say you work in IT, but honestly that is about as vague as a lumberyard worker saying he works in the forestry industry. Painting ones job in such broad strokes doesn't necessarily help us to help you come up with plans or ideas. I promise you that there are plenty of IT jobs in "podunk wastelands" depending on your particular IT skillset. 

There a lot of jobs in podunk wasteland areas. It's called being remote and it's the thing right now. Historically, IT people wanted you on site even when you *could* do your work 100% remotely. Now it has become the latest-greatest trend.

My concern would be download speeds, throughput. If I can run Microsoft Teams, all these corporate functions like Outlook, etc. It's demanding. If I had a RV I probably would go to some place remote and beautiful and work remotely out of it. Assuming the connection worked, the whole thing hinges on it.

HughesNet is slow and expensive. Various cell-based devices are also pretty problematic, there is no unlimited hotspot, I  have Verizion now and they limit me to 30GB with their Unlimited plan. then throttle to 2G. It's a source of frustration. I think TMobile is better but not by much.

Maybe Starlink will be a game changer. If so, rural Utah, here I come. As there won't be a reason to stay near a major metro area at all.

Otherwise you can still stay in the major metro area but drive out far enough where it's quasy-rural, next to the river or such yet get awesome, viable speeds.

12 hours ago, agesilaus said:

The complicating factor is the issue of urban outdoorsmen taking up old RVs and living on the streets with them. This has sensitized the urban population and will make flying under the police radar a lot more difficult.

I think just how alert the locals would be depends on location and the density of people doing this. The west coast seems to have the worst problem but they also have lax laws  or at least lax enforcemnt.

As I said stress level would be high. You could not get away with parking in a residential area for days or weeks on end. Maybe in an industrial/commercial area if the vehicle had some sort of logo on it making it appear to be a local business. Some of those magnetic signs maybe. "Carls Computer Service" or some such.

Air conditioning would be a big issue, running one would be a dead give away. Living without one in 90 degree plus city streets in a metal box, would be very difficult. Sanitary issues would also be a problem, you going to live with a Porta-Potty, how would you empty it?

Why would I park in a residential area?   Where did you get that assumption?

That's the dumbest thing one can do, full-timing.  I am aware of this guy doing on youtube but IMO it is a really dumb idea in light of the fact there are 100 and 1 better options. Residential area is last on my list if absolutely nothing else worked out and I would not depend on it.

With Covid, there are multitudes of empty or semi-empty business parks that seem to have permanently parked B-class, box trucks, delivery, etc. vehicles with nobody giving a damn.   Even when the place has a secure guard. It's a perfect place to blend in.

That's just one option, there are others.  I could even park it at the place I worked at if nothing else materialized.  That's as legitimate as it gets. 

19 hours ago, sandsys said:

Since you primarily want a bedroom You could do one of those no-build minivan conversions and truly be stealthy. The two you linked to both look way too visible for me to consider them for stealth camping. You might want to Google Bob Wells uTube to see some great videos on how to to this cheaply.

Linda

You are right. I am aware of the van conversion idea, the thing that concerns me is the height, I am pretty tall and need at least 6'4" overhead room, and 7' is even better. Most vans are deal breakers for this very reason.

Does a van exist that can accommodate between 6'8" to 7'  height so I don't feel claustrophobic? Even Dodge Sprinter van with the high top is something like 73" IIRC.

Shuttle buses look really neat and appealing. They have about 7' height inside and don't look like a full-timing machine. I think I would prefer a shuttle bus over an emergency vehicle/box truck/van option although these too look pretty discreet.

A B-class, a Sprinter van would also easily blend in, there are lots of these in delivery, used by Amazon among many.

18 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

 

Your plans are interesting.  Do keep us posted on your progress. 

 

I have not finalized my decision yet but something along these lines. The convenience of buying a turn-key product (mostly) versus building one myself, cheaper initially but maybe not the best value full time.

28 minutes ago, agesilaus said:

The stress level would be too high for me. We prefer boondocking intermixed with socializing in campgrounds. And we avoid cities as much as possible.

I have no choice in the matter, as my choice of living is driven by my employment.  I do not get really to pick where I live.

All IT work is in large metro areas. DC, Chicago, Denver, and the west coast. Nothing in podunk wasteland in New Mexico. Where camp sites are a dime a dozen.

I would not be living on the streets all day, since I am tied up in the office until 6PM, have various activities like the gym, etc. until probably 8PM and would only use the camper to sleep in, essentially. Walmart parking lots are depressing, I try to avoid them, but then even then there are many other choices.

Campgrounds are a complete nightmare, IME, not much better than a parking lot.  Maybe worse. Too far, too expensive, too much riff-raff, etc. I didn't enjoy them. I would stay at a  business park  5 days a week and on the weekends I visit a relative where I can recharge.  

The ideal spot for your RV is your own land. I might just do that some day.

Plus now in IT there is a lot of remote opportunities which means the location becomes a moot point, I could go somewhere in the mountains for example, as long as I had decent download speed. then I could work remotely.

The possibilities are boundless. That's the whole point.

Need to wait until my credit is decent enough so I can secure  a loan, right now it's at 700.. sigh. Not sure if good enough or what. How much I can get will drive the choice of what I can buy. 40K will be nice and I think allow me to do what I want to do. But if only 10K, I will have to delay the purchase and save up the coin.

I specifically asked about Xplorer Xcursion, not 2021 Dynamax Isata that costs like a house. It's pretty clear from the subject.

Makes sense. I get it.

this is the only exception I found to this rule thus far. Dodge 3500 front yet can access the rest of the RV from the front.

https://robert1.slickpic.com/albums/2001-Xplorer-Xcursion-25-Class-C-Motorhome/photos/15945441/fullsizeoutput-cf05/?wallpaper

I am in my mid 40's, not retired or anything and work a normal 9-5 routine..

I did full time for 2 years about 15 years ago.  I stayed at a number of CGs, got to experience the CG culture.  Some had riff-raff, some where a bit classy. Some were micromanaged to the point of absurd (no guests after 10PM - are you kidding me?), some were almost abandoned by owners. I liked the latter. 

None were cheap and convenient to work, my commute at best was 45 minutes, I thought that was short when I moved from a CG that was 1.5 hours away.

Prices keep going up and up even for riff-raff ones, they now installed a pool and pretend to be 5 star. It's cheaper to rent a room all things  considered. But then you lose all privacy. Not that you have much at a CG to begin with. I had to deal with some theft, turns out CG owner's kids were stealing things from vehicles of residents.

There are no campgrounds within 1 hour  of me. Or more.  And I am in DC. I am not commuting for  2 hours every day.  No way, not with the price of gas. The ones that are available are at least $1000/month. Makes no sense if you try to be frugal, given all expenses of RV+CG fees it's cheaper to rent an apartment as exorbitant as they are in price. 

2 years of CG left me with a sense of frustration. Nothing has changed for the better, except that now you have to book  6 months ahead. No thank you.

I am going to full time again but never again staying at a CG. I did notice one thing though. In the west, CG are a different animal, cheaper, easier to find, there are more of them, the attitude and the culture is different than on the east coast.   Looking for a nice CG in DC area is like looking for a museum in rural Montana.

Trying to decide what can work for me.  I work full time and don't like campgrounds for a number of reasons  - don't fit my lifestyle, too far, too expensive. I need to be close to work and there are none here. I am an IT contractor and potentially move every  6+ months. 

My 2 requirements are something that has a truck front like F350/F450, not an E-series van-based vehicle.

My second requirement is headroom, ideally 7'.

Many  ambulances  / emergency response vehicles would be a great start for a conversion. It's not exactly what I want but this video inspired me.  I want something a bit larger, maybe 22-25' and being 6'3", the 72" overhead doesn't work for me either. But this is the spirit of what I am looking for. Although the owner modded it beyond any stealth mode.

A 16-20 person shuttle bus is probably a better starting point given it has more overhead room., about 7'. A sprinter van with a high-top is not as viable, while it  can accommodate 6'3" (barely) but it only comes with the van front I don't want. A truck front is always easier to repair than a van IME.

The whole idea is to park it at work or some business park parking lot without attracting too much attention with a vehicle that screams "Someone lives here". Anything that looks like some kind of service vehicle, delivery vehicle or such.  I would be gone from it during  business hours and don't want a break-in. Full-timers, myself included, keep expensive things in their units and a unit that looks like a full time vehicle is a target. 

This looks very appealing, I wonder if it can be made inconspicuous. Maybe repaint it in a non-RV color, with some business names on it? Probably not.  

http://www.trucktrend.com/features/1702-2004-ford-f-450-xplorer-xcursion-is-a-cummins-powered-room-with-view

There are almost no class C that use truck fronts, ie.. F450.   Or Dodge 3500.

This is what I want except newer than 2001. Apparently they are in business after being bought.

Are there any used ones for sale or does one have to order directly from the factory? How much do they cost, ballpark?

 

https://www.xplorermotorhome.com/xcursion_dodge25.html

https://robert1.slickpic.com/albums/2001-Xplorer-Xcursion-25-Class-C-Motorhome/?wallpaper

 

Interesting. But not viable price-wise.

Any other alternatives?

Revcon TrailBlazer appears to be out of business but does anyone else make a similar product?

Basically a C-class on a F350 chassis.