Andy Baird

I see. Thanks, Kirk.

I used the ZIP code lookup page suggested by Dutch_12078: https://tools.usps.com/zip-code-lookup.htm?byaddress As Dutch said, "When the address validates, click on the down arrow and note the 'Y' under the 'Commercial Mail Receiving Agency' header.' " This is more relevant to our discussion than business vs. residential, as it addresses the specific issue of mail forwarding services. Using this tool shows that the Postal Service classifies DakotaPost as a Commercial Mail Receiving Agency, but does not so classify the Escapees Mail Service. I'm just wondering why.

I did check a 77399 address (mine), and it came up 'N'--hence my question.

"all organizations that receive mail for the public are required to register with the USPS and as such they are a 'private mail box' by legal definition." That's understandable. What puzzles me, and perhaps you have an explanation, is why the ZIP code lookup that you suggested shows 'Y' under the Commercial Mail Receiving Agency header for a DakotaPost address, but shows 'N' for the Escapees Mail Service address under that same header. It appears the Postal Service doesn't classify Escapees Mail Service as a Commercial Mail Receiving Agency, and I'm wondering why. Did Escapees somehow wangle an exception?

Thanks for providing that detailed information, Kirk. If I understand correctly, it confirms what I was saying yesterday: if you use an Escapees mail address, whether you write it as "PMB xxxx" or "#xxxx", you are using a PMB.

Something occurred to me while pondering the reason why a DakotaPost address is flagged as belonging to a commercial mail receiving agency, while an Escapees address is not. Escapees has an RV park at that Rainbow Drive address, while DakotaPost does not. An RVer could conceivably be residing at the Escapees RV park, but not at DakotaPost's street address. Maybe that's the key difference?

"For Escapees we didn't use a PMB or P.O. Box #. They gave us a normal-looking address." My understanding--and correct me if I'm wrong--is that everybody who uses the Escapees Mail Service is legally using a PMB, whether or not they spell out the letters 'PMB' as part of their address. My Escapees address doesn't look any different in format than my DakotaPost address. There is a number in the street address: 180 Rainbow Dr. #xxxx ... just as there's a number in my DakotaPost street address: 3916 N Potsdam Ave #xxxx "When the address validates, click on the down arrow and note the 'Y' under the 'Commercial Mail Receiving Agency' header." You're right... and my DakotaPost address shows the same 'Y' flag you mentioned. Any half-intelligent bot could use that USPS page to quickly determine whether an address was using a mail forwarding service, and that's probably just how Wells Fargo and the other big banks are doing it. But here's where the difference comes in. When I enter my Escapees Mail Service address into that USPS ZIP lookup page, that flag says 'N'. That's bizarre, because of course Escapees is a commercial mail receiving agency. How did they pull this off invisibility act?

I went to DakotaPost this morning, since I happen to be in their home town, and told a woman there about the email I'd received from Wells Fargo. She knew all about the issue, having heard from many other DakotaPost customers, and this is what she told me. Although DakotaPost is fully compliant with the current Patriot Act (as I expect the Escapees Mail Service is), all the big banks are starting to crack down on customers with P.O. boxes or Personal Mail Boxes. In Wells Fargo's case, this just began yesterday, she said. She reeled off the names of half a dozen major banks that have sent out similar notices to DakotaPost customers. Wells Fargo was one; I recognized the others, but don't remember them all. According to her, the only bank that hasn't pulled this "you must have a physical residence address" requirement (yet, I said to myself) is U.S. Bank.* She went on to say that at this point I have two choices: move my money to U.S. Bank, or find a relative or friend who's willing to let me use their home address as a "front" in order to satisfy Wells Fargo's new requirement. While I feel like giving WF the finger by moving my money elsewhere, I can easily imagine that U.S. Bank will probably be sending out similar notices sooner or later. So I'm going to ask a friend to front for me, which is stupid and annoying... but what else can I do? DakotaPost is a large, well-established mail forwarding service, so I'm sure they have plenty of customers who are affected. In fact, the woman told me that many of their customers bank with Wells Fargo. If what she said about all the major banks doing this is correct, I expect a lot of unhappy full-timers will be hearing from their banks in the near future. * I hadn't heard of them, but Wikipedia says they are the fifth largest banking institution in the United States.

"Is your address actually a P.O. Box? We used Escapees mail service and they gave us a street address." I have a street address--just as with Escapees Rainbow Drive street addresses. It's the address of DakotaPost in Sioux Falls. Wells Fargo said: It looks to me as if they recognized that as DakotaPost's street address, and correctly assumed that I was using them as a PMB (Personal Mail Box)... even though I don't use "PMB" as part of my mailing address. Now, I am a registered SD voter, I have vehicles registered there, I have a SD driver's license, and so on. It's a fully legal domicile address, just as my Rainbow Drive address was when I was domiciled in Texas years ago. But if WF demands a physical residence address, well, I ain't got one. (And if they are doing a "sweep" of their customer list, you folks domiciled in TX may be hearing from them soon.)

I'm a full-time RVer who is domiciled in South Dakota. I just received an email from Wells Fargo, a bank I've been using for a number of years. As a full-timer, I don't have a sticks-and-bricks physical address. If I take this email at face value, it means I will have to shut down my Wells Fargo accounts. Needless to say, I'm not happy. Anybody have any suggestions?

I'm currently in eastern South Dakota, due to jury duty in Minnehaha County. My mail forwarding service is DakotaPost in Sioux Falls (which has been excellent, by the way). I found that unlike in Polk County, Texas, here no allowance is made for full-time RVers. When I contacted the jury manager and pointed out that I would be required to make a 2,800 mile round trip, the reply was "We understand that jury service can be an inconvenience, but..." The most they were willing to do was let me postpone by two months. I'll echo what others have said: jury duty is very interesting and educational. I served on two juries when I lived in New Jersey, and learned a lot from those experiences. So I have no objection to serving on a jury—if it's within a reasonable driving distance. When in the past I received jury summonses from Polk County, I'd call up the office, tell them I was an Escapee and was traveling out of state, and I was excused. In fact, now that I'm over 70, I'm permanently exempt from serving on a Texas jury. Not so in South Dakota--one must be over 80 to be exempt from jury duty. For what it's worth, they do say that they won't call you more than every two years. By the way, I've been here three weeks, have spent only half a day in court during jury selection, and was not selected. I have to check in again for the last time this coming Friday.