zen2185RI

I wanted to do a quick update on what I've found.  Using BigRockMedia Safe Travel Trailer Towing Calculator, I am good to tow the Grand Design 2670MK.  Please check my numbers to make sure nothing is out of whack.

We started working on our excessive debt back in 2006.  Not like we were not paying things down before, but we were on the slide at that time.  By the time 2008 rolled around and things crashed, we were already had a plan in place.  That plan has been revised so many times since, but it's working.  

52 seems a little early to be really considering retirement, but I feel like we should be establishing a plan.  Sure it's going to change 1, 10, 1000 times before actual retirement.  In fact, I don't even know what retirement will look like.  I might be working part time.  I still feel that we should be working on a base plan.  My wife is 54 and just can't wrap her head around starting to plan.  She tells me there is nothing we can right now other pay down the debts.  She has given me a soft ok about a travel trailer when we get three of a major payments taken care of.  

Looking at the following, 2013 Jayco White Hawk 27DSRB.

Specs:

• Length - 30.92 (bit longer than I was looking for)
• GVWR (lbs) - 7750
• Dry Weigh (lbs) - 5615
• Payload Capacity (lbs) - 2315
• Hitch Weight (lbs) - 630

With a payload of 1673 - That leaves us with 1043 (lbs) for passengers and gear in the truck.  Total weight of the 2 of us brings it down to 593.  The 7750 is below the 8K mentioned in other replies to this thread.

Again, this is just an example to make sure that I am looking at the numbers correctly.  Oh and since fresh water post from earlier of 27 (gallons) is considered low, this one has 46 gallons.  

Within the next year to year and a half, three major debts will be paid off.  Freeing up funds to start looking seriously.

Jason

7 hours ago, RV_ said:

As a side note you are lucky you did not have that 1989 Ram 250 Cummins. The 89 Cummins Ram had no turbo or inter-cooler. It took Dodge several years to get it right. We full-timed for seven years pulling right at 80% Tow capacity of our 1992 Ram 1 Ton Diesel Dually long bed. It had a bit too little radiator so in 1993 they went to the under bed auxiliary cooler and fan. I bought one and installed it on my 1992.

I agree that a good used rig, truck and trailer, as long as they are within tow ratings, can be a smart solution.

Some folks coming off the road may want to trade a bigger truck for a newer smaller truck. Money may not be the limiting factor.

Best of luck! We also retired early and moved into our full time rig at age 45, but our two boys were grown and gone by then. Debt free and remain so. We paid cash for both our used rigs and all our used trucks. But the only one we towed two 36 fivers full time with was the 92 Diesel dually.

 

It did have a turbo but not inter-cooled in the 1989 RAM 250 - 5.9L Cummins 6BT (12 Valve). 

Debt free is going to be key.  We are not planning a full-time RV life.  If I can get the wife to jump on my bandwagon, we'd still only be part-timers.  Going out as often as I could.  My bucket list is long.  

Jason

On 9/29/2022 at 7:35 PM, TXiceman said:

Jason, it is sad that you are not ready to step up to the big rigs.  In late November/early December we will be selling the rig in our signature.  Been a great full-time rig.

Hope you have a fantastic time in the RV.  

Ken

Unfortunately we are making a sprint to get our debts paid off while maxing out retirement/HSA investments.  This is limiting us to smaller sized RVs.  I just don't have the money right now and don't want to take any new debt to purchase a replacement for my 2020 RAM 1500.  

I completely get your point, and that is how my dad did it.  He had his 1989 RAM 250 with the Cumins diesel.  That put him in the driver seat to buy a well maintained Airstream.  The last one he bought was a family moving up to a larger RV for retirement, and it only cost him $12500 in 2002.  That same 28' footer in the shape it was in would sell for a great deal more.  I don't recall the model name or year.  Later in 2010 timeframe he got rid of his 89 RAM with well over 350k miles and bought a Toyota Tundra to two it.  He was not a fan towing it with the Tundra.  It was in specs, but a real beast to two with such a small truck.  

I wish he would have kept it.  If he did, we would have certainly bought a RAM 2500 to meet our needs.  As you pointed out, it's ideal to find someone that is upgrading to purchase their used well maintained RV.  That is our hope.  I've only pointed out new models as a means to understanding the weights and my limits.  Heck if I could find a 23' Airstream Safari in excellent shape and reasonably priced, I'd buy that.

Thank you

Jason

On 9/28/2022 at 10:48 AM, TXiceman said:

Personally, with your 1500 series truck, I would limit my search to trailer with a GVWR of no more than 8000#, maybe 8500#.  When you load up the trailer with kids, cargo and hitch weight, you will be maxed out in most cases.  Start out by getting the truck on the scales with your normal travel cargo, full fuel and add 100# for the hitch.

We have been full time for 9.5 years and see way too many rigs with too much trailer for the truck.  They went totally with the maximum tow numbers from the truck brochure with no regard to the footnotes.

Ken

Ken I would most likely go lower than 8000 to give myself more wiggle room.  Again this will be a beginner RV for us.  If this goes well, then we'd be looking to replace my truck with a 3500.  Wish I had stuck with my original idea of a 2500, but I can make a 1500 work for the 2 of us to start out.  This why I suggested something with a much lower GVWR.  I am going to struggle with meeting my price point along with a GVWR that is acceptable to tow.

Just for a little more education, we would be starting with short weekend trips locally.  Overtime we'd extend our trips ensuring that we remain within our weight limits.  With each trip we would gain knowledge and determination if this is what we want to do come retirement.  If we decide to go forward, we'd purchase a larger truck and then a larger trailer to meet our needs.  This first phase will take place over the course of 5-10 years as we approach retirement.  Retirement is when we plan to take our bigger trips whether they be with an RV or deciding to go without an RV and go with hotels.

Jason

On 9/28/2022 at 8:58 AM, Jinx & Wayne said:

Your propane number is off. A 20# propane tank has 20# of propane when full, not 80#.

I cannot imagine traveling with full black and gray tanks, but if you do have anything in those tanks or in the fresh tank, it is cargo. I am using Kirk's corrected fresh water weight of 216#. If you are traveling with all full tanks you have room for 8# of cargo (704#-240#-240#-216#=8#. (Buy lightweight clothes if you plan to travel this way.)

If you travel with a full water tank your capacity for food, clothes, bedding, etc., cargo capacity is affected. Your trailer cargo capacity with water is 488# (704#-216#). Propane is cargo, leaving you 468# available if you have full water on board. We travel with enough for uses on the road and no more.

Your hitch percentage is off. The listed hitch weight from this trailer is dry weight, not including cargo (fluids are cargo). That is a 13.7% dry hitch weight [(520#/3796#) x 100=13.6%]. If you evenly distribute the cargo weight in the trailer and use this number your hitch weight is about 615# (4500# x .136). That number varies with where you pack things so it is only meaningful to show possible possible effects on hitch weight, towing and payload. How you distribute the weight will affect towing characteristics and hitch weight. Whatever you buy, weigh it loaded before you start traveling too far.

Your truck payload is listed at 1673#. That is based on a completely empty truck with a full tank of fuel, fluids and factory installed options. It does not include any after-market accessories, driver, passengers, pets or anything else. If you've installed anything (cap, tonneau, etc.) fill the tank and get it weighed. Many truck stops have scales. Subtract the the actual weight from the GVWR to get actual payload. From the payload subtract the hitch weight to find approximate amount of cargo you can carry in the truck. Until you actually have a trailer in mind you will have to use some theoretical numbers, but the more accurate the better.

Thank you.  Learning more with each post.

Jason

On 9/27/2022 at 11:23 PM, fpmtngal said:

I think you are looking at the numbers slightly incorrectly.  The number that is most important is the combined cargo and dry weight - 4500 lbs.  A couple of other websites refer to this number as the trailer’s GVWR.

That means the trailer is not designed to weigh any more than 4500 lbs. - it can’t weigh 5216 lbs.

The 3796 lbs (shipping weight, according to Keystone’s website) should include a full propane tank (I think that’s normal industry-wide).

But water is not an extra weight allowance.  Water is considered cargo - so falls under the 704 lbs of cargo capacity.  I agree that 27 gal is a really small fresh water tank.

Another thing that isn’t normally included in the dry weight is battery(s).  Batteries are provided by the dealer, so the weight of the battery is part of the 704 cargo capacity.  That weight is variable depending on what battery you and your dealer decide on (some are very heavy).

So all of a sudden, that 704 cargo capacity is actually more like 350 - 400, depending on what battery(s) you get.

There are a number of ways to deal with the water situation - one is to camp somewhere with hookups, so you don’t need a full fresh water tank and can dump your tanks when you leave.

The listed tongue weight for most manufacturers is usually the tongue weight for a dry trailer, and is often a whole lot lower than what it will actually be.  The interesting thing about this trailer is that 520 lbs is 12% of the GVWR of 4500.  I can’t tell if the trailer is likely to be a tongue-heavy model naturally or if the manufacturer actually listed a realistic tongue weight.  A trailer’s design can influence whether an unloaded trailer is tongue heavy or tongue light, and tongue weight can be influenced by how you load the trailer.

Anyway, some points to think about when you are trailer shopping.

 

Thank you.  Great information to look at and thank you for correcting my mistakes.

1 hour ago, sandsys said:

Those bunk beds are only 5'8" long. How tall are your boys?

Linda

My son is 6' 4", and two daughters both 5'8".  They are older and will not be coming with us, but that is a good catch.  I'm 6'3".  Plus if they were to come with us, I'd want them to be able to fit in the bed.

Thank you

Jason

12 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

A little math error but.........  

The total weight of the RV should never exceed the GVWR or the combined dry weight and cargo weight most likely. The GVWR is very important to know. 

The good thing is I know that a trailer of this size and weight for my wife and myself would keep me in the proper range.  Then down the road I can look to get a 2500 or 3500 and a larger 5th wheel.  

Around this sizing, could you recommend different brands/models that I could look for used.  

Thank you

Jason

Here is what the door sticker has:

GVWR - 7100 LB GAWR Front - 3900 LB, GAWR Rear - 4100 LB

From the RAM Truck Towing by VIN number - Max Payload - 1673 LB , Max Towing 11,290 LB 

From the link provided for the EZ Towing Weight Calculator  (using 5227 (range from RAM is from 4798-5227) as a guesstimate) and a tongue weight of .10 says I might be able to tow up to 11,000.

Looking at Arlington Trailer near us, they have a New 2022 Keystone RV Springdale 1760BH: (outside of price range, but used as an example)

1. Hitch weight: 520 lb
2. Cargo weight: 704 lb
3. Dry weight: 3796 lb 
4. C ombined Cargo and dry weight:  4500 lb
5. Water 27 gallons (8lb/gallon): 156 lb
6. Grey Water 30 gallons (8lb/gallon): 240 lb
7. Black Water 30 gallons (8lb/gallon): 240 lb
8. Propane 20lbs (4lb/gallon): 80 lb
9. Guesstimate total weight:  5216lb. 

Hopefully I captured everything and used appropriate assumptions and didn't miss any needed weights.  

One other question I have is at what point do I need to be concerned about the size of brakes?  My dad and I talked about this in the past.  This is why he chose a 1989 RAM 250 with the Cumins diesel.  

Thank you

Jason

In 2020 I purchased a new RAM 1500 with 3.92 rear axle ratio rated at 12000+ towing.  We are in our early 50's with a junior in high school and a junior in college.  My parents owned several pop ups and Airstreams.  I am looking for something to get us started.  This would allow us to go on short weekend trips locally and slowly branch out.  If things go well and I can sell the wife on it, we'd upgrade to a RAM 2500/3500 and a large 5th wheel. 

For now it's about getting going.  Budget would be up to 18k.