BigDinAZ
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Posts posted by BigDinAZ
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On 9/7/2019 at 7:26 AM, FBO Cookie Monster said:
I’m at the low end of the food chain, with an F150, with the payload package. Crew Cab, 2500 lb payload. I knew when I bought it that I would be very limited with fifth wheel selections, and did the math before hand. We don’t need or want anything over 30’, but there are not many that fit the bill. Looking real hard at the Minnie Plus, 25’. It has an advertised dry pin of 820 lbs, so if that creeps up to 1400 or so, I’m good with that. Planning on the AUH hitch, and attach it to the truck with a gooseball.
Since 99% of my driving is not towing, this made the most sense. The 250 diesel has a payload at least 400 lbs less, although many would argue that it would still be better even going over the limits. Maybe. But I am not one to knowingly go over the limits.
Other contender on the horizon are the jayco 25.5, with an advertised empty hitch of 1300 lbs. I like the Jayco a little better, but loaded for bear will be right at max payload by my estimate. I refuse to get a fifth wheel built with a laminated floor system, I’ve seen what a little water damage can do to them in very short order. So 5/8 plywood for me. That makes the available contenders list exceedingly short.
I had an after thought on this.
I went to Winnebago's web page and the lightest GVWR Minnie Plus 25RKS is 9,995lbs. 20%of that is 1,999lbs, which leaves about 500lbs payload.
Now figure in the hitch, and that's another 100 lbs, leaving about 400lbs, now you and the wife, and fuel, you are going to be maxing out, if not over payload.
What about the Micro Mini fifth wheel?
GVWR is 7,000lbs giving a pin weight of about 1,540lbs leaving just under 1,000lbs.
You are still going to be close, but most likely under.
Maybe you could get a pull trailer?
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On 9/7/2019 at 7:26 AM, FBO Cookie Monster said:
I’m at the low end of the food chain, with an F150, with the payload package. Crew Cab, 2500 lb payload. I knew when I bought it that I would be very limited with fifth wheel selections, and did the math before hand. We don’t need or want anything over 30’, but there are not many that fit the bill. Looking real hard at the Minnie Plus, 25’. It has an advertised dry pin of 820 lbs, so if that creeps up to 1400 or so, I’m good with that. Planning on the AUH hitch, and attach it to the truck with a gooseball.
Since 99% of my driving is not towing, this made the most sense. The 250 diesel has a payload at least 400 lbs less, although many would argue that it would still be better even going over the limits. Maybe. But I am not one to knowingly go over the limits.
Other contender on the horizon are the jayco 25.5, with an advertised empty hitch of 1300 lbs. I like the Jayco a little better, but loaded for bear will be right at max payload by my estimate. I refuse to get a fifth wheel built with a laminated floor system, I’ve seen what a little water damage can do to them in very short order. So 5/8 plywood for me. That makes the available contenders list exceedingly short.
You may be okay with the Winnebago but remember you need to add your weight, the wife, kids, fuel, and anything else you put in the truck, not just the pin weight.
Also check the GCWR which is truck and trailer, use GVWR numbers and not empty weights.
You cod be under on pad but be over the GCWR.
Also check axle and tire ratings too. Yes it's true, I am a payload guy, but you need to know, and stay under the other numbers too.
D
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35 minutes ago, chief916 said:
So true.
Yup I get that too have driven them, and gave it thought.
If I was going to tow anything over 16k I would up to a 450 class or go HDT.
Anything under 16K I am more than comfortable with my 3500.
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I guess another way of putting it is like this.
When I was looking g at trucks I wanted the following Parameters.
Ram 3500 DRW, long bed, crew cab, with 4:10 rear and the highest payload capacity withing those parameters.
I went to 5 dealerships and looked at a lot of trucks.
I found my truck and one exactly the same, Laramie package. Only difference was it had the HO, Aisin, and air bags.
It had a GCWR of 33,300#, mine has a GCWR of 30,300# a difference of 3,000#. It had a tow rating of 23,000# my rating is 21,600# a difference of 1,400#. It had a GVWR of 12,000#, mine is 14,000# and a max payload of 4,300#, mine is 5,704#. It was also $4,200.00 more.
So, while ot had a higher tow rating and a higher GCWR it also had a a lower GVWR and Payload.
They are all very close, depending on the package you choose, and for me the $4,000. Difference was not worth it just to get the HO and air bags.
Personal I am not sold on the air bags for the 1 ton yet anyhow, and I think they can be a false sense of security. They do nothing for payload or towing, only assist in leveling, and someone who doesn't understand numbers could think well it's not squatting so it's all good, when in reality they could be over payload.
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9 hours ago, Ray,IN said:
The extended cab/double cab also reduces payload and tow rating. If you goal is maximum payload and tow rating, only a standard cab will meet the goal.
Yup, but with my set up, I don't need a sliding hit h as my trailer sits back far from the cab.
I ended up with 5,700lbs payload capacity which is huge. All the trucks I looked at were around 3,500 to 4,000. With my payload, and my 11000# GVWR trailer after pin weight and loading the truck I still have about 2500 lbs of free payload which is very comforting for me to know, so that if I ever decide to get a bigger trailer I have the room to do so.
I also have a 21,600lb tow rating which is way more than I will ever need. If I do go bigger the largest I will go is a 16k GVWR which would still leave me with almost 1k payload.
Like I said before, you have to give something to get something with theese trucks, so far I have the highest payload of all the trucks I looked at, not to say there aren't others with higher payload, just in the trucks I looked at.
If I was going to hotshot then yea I would have done the HO and probably done the Tradesman, not to say I couldn't hotshot with my truck, but I don't plan on it.
I am more than happy with my choice.
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21 hours ago, NDBirdman said:
That's a very nice rig!! I've actually been down to the dealer looking for a 2018 or newer H.O. longbed but they said they can't find me one within 500 miles. But they are trying to push ordering a 2020 model on me. Mines the Megacab, it actually looses some payload... grrrrr..... LOL Yup, with the hemi you would pick up more payload but in the end, it does not have the torque of the cummins. One thing, don't delay maintenance on these things, they will bite you in the back-side. Other than that, these things run forever. If you have not gone to this site, go join it. There is a poop-load of good info there: www.cumminsforum.com
My RV weighs the same as yours. My truck handles it like it's not even there. Lots of specific truck/eng. towing suggestions there, it is a little learning curve to get the best out of this engine/transmission.
I didn't get the HO and here is why.
The and Aisian reduce payload capacity because they weigh more. I am all about payload. Yes you get more torque with the HO and Aisin, which increase tow rating. But what good is a higher tow rating, if you don't have the payload to handle the pin weight of a heavier trailer?
If I was going to hotshot full time, maybe, but doing what I am doing, just couldn't justify the extra $ just to get a higher tow rating. This cam be argued 10 ways to Sunday, but it all comes down to GVWR, GCWR, AWR, and Payload, tow rating is the least important. With theese trucks, you have to give something to get something, and I didn't want to give up payload.
I tested the two trucks, had them side by side, drove both, and ran the numbers on both, my truck and the exact same one only with HO, Aisian, and Air bags, and an extra several grand on top at the dealer when I was deciding.
I already told you why I didn't go for the HO, now the air bags.
They are a moot point for me. With my numbers way the hell up there, an 11k 5er doesn't squat my truck at all. It sits level as it should, even a 13k trailer wouldn't cause much squat. A 16K, yea maybe a little, but still not enough to justify the extra cost for the Air bags, and at that the bags do nothing to increase payload or tow rating, they only assist with leveling, and if I don't need leveling, then I don't need the bags, moot point for me, so I ended up with what I got, and couldn't be happier.
I have a hell of a lot of free payload, massive axle ratings, more than enough torque with the 4:10 rear and awesome tire ratings with the DRW.
Yup, I am a happy camper (no pun intended).
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I came across this today. Seems there is a new television show coming to Discovery caller The RVERS, and it's a show all about RVing.
Any of you hear about it?
They have Youtube, Facebook and a web page at http://www.thervers.tv
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On 8/6/2019 at 6:10 PM, NDBirdman said:
Atleast they will take it back. If I may suggest, find a camper you want, the layout you want and figure out all the weight details for it. Then make sure you get the size truck you need to haul it. It would stink to buy another truck, fall in love with an RV and find yourself in the same situation. A lot of folks here find the RV of their dreams but want/need an HDT to pull it safely, or atleast a 1 ton dually. Others find a 3/4 ton will pull their dream camper. Just a note, if you needed an HDT, most can be purchased for alot less than an newer won ton dual rear wheel truck. I could have bought 2 for what I paid for my truck.... LOL If I am right, you are stuck to a Ford? I ran fords all my life, until a stealership pissed me off. I decided to jump ship to a RAM and so far, have found it to be a much better truck. Yea, I'm sure that statement will make a few folks unhappy but it is what it is.
As far as what manufacturer says is payload, gross weight, etc, they figure it out with a half tank of fuel and one 150lb driver. You need to take into account your weight, wife's, kids/passengers/pets and what not gear you will also have in your cab. It all adds to the payload, the weight of the hitch, tools, etc. It all adds up/subtracts from available weight usable by the camper. I think you already said something about that so you probably understand it already. Yes, getting a diesel over a gas engine removes a lot of usable payload as does the cab type/bed length, etc.
Well spoken. I actually considered an HDT, have seen some awesome set ups, but because I had a real good trade in, and it brought the price of our truck down to around what you pay for a nice car, so we did that.
I agree, and this statement will most likely ruffle some feathers but so be it, right now (at the time of this posting) Ram is king for towing.
I am piling a light 11k GVWR 5er, but that may change down the road. IF that day comes, I know my truck will handle it, because I ran all the numbers and I know what it is capable of.
I went Cummins for longevity and peace of mind, and yes that adds to weight of the truck. My Ram has a payload of 5,704lbs, can you imagine if I had a Hemi in it?
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On 8/6/2019 at 4:32 PM, MikePamRV said:
Hi Birdman,
The dealership I bought it from said they'll take it back with a minimal hit to my bank account AND with no contingency on my buying the next truck from them. He's checking what he can to see if he can locate the right rig for us, but if he comes up empty in the next 48 hrs or so, I'll just have to take the $$ and get what I can. Couple of units that meet our criteria within a state or two, but will have to rent a car to get to the them. Sheesh, whaddamess.
We got soooooo lucky at the dealership. They cancelled the contract and we started over, mind you we only had it a couple days and didn't put but a few miles on it.
Tou have to be careful with those vin check things, they can be off, and the paper charts are only a guide.
Best thing is the sticker inside the door. Take GVWR and subtract the payload on the sticker and you get curb weight.
I sure hope it all works out for you.
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17 hours ago, lockmup68 said:
Not true. Only the big fifth wheels and TTs. I’d tow an airstream with the one ton all day long, with a pro pride hitch. Each has its place. Many tow way too much trailer for their truck and stopping is an issue.
I absolutely agree with this. That's why I got the big end Ram. I am only looking at a 13-16K lb 5er, I have plenty of starting and stopping power, with or without trailer brakes. In fact, I won't even know it's back there most of the time.
Nice truck by the way, I almost purchased the Volvo VNL780 (I took my CDL test in one), and also drove one for a while. I love those Volvo's, but the ones with the Cummins.
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On 7/7/2019 at 7:44 AM, lockmup68 said:
Stopping is key. You also need to be able to stop when trailer brakes fail. I’m good. Slow and steady, yet stop all day long. Cheaper than a dually too.
Not unless you paid less than 32K.
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This is another topic that is just as controversial as the how much can I tow question.
Ford, Chevy, GMC, Dodge. What's your preference?
Short bed, long bed, what's your preference.
Now days they have sliding hitches that compensate for turning and backing. Back in the day those things didn't exist.
That said, I have a long bed, old school I guess, but as to say which is better, well I think it's a matter of opinion.
Just my .02
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51 minutes ago, NDBirdman said:
For sure. I talk to too many that think that, also many that say manufacturer ratings are under rated so the truck can go a little heavier... I call BS to those folks. The second to last truck I drove was registered to 100k. And the company owner wanted us to all haul that. (100k is legal in ND but DON'T cross state lines.... not happy ending... LOL) I was hauling a belly dump filled with Class 13, boards on top bowed out, I mean I was really loaded. Was not happy about it, told boss man, your paying the fine and paying damages... he didn't care. (no longer work for him) My truck moaned/groaned badly with that load. I had a hard time stopping that load and yes, I checked/adjusted my brakes weekly. Still was a monster of a load for that truck. 2 miles down the road, state patrol comes after me, takes me to the scale. Man, was he unfriendly!! He weighed me, I hit at 93k. He still lectured me and sent me on my way. Point is, I was not even at my registered max and it was a nightmare for me. Yea, I will for the rest of my life tell people go overkill on their tow vehicle, it might be able to pull it alright but it's more of a control/stopping factor that can end lives. It's just NOT worth it. Don't care if certain ppl like/dislike my point of view, it is what it is. 80% of max can at times be too heavy..... IMHO
Well truth is to those that say you can go over manufacturing numbers.
DOT is going to use those numbers, NOT what you think you can go over, he is going to go by the stickers the manufacturer says.
If you are over that, he is going to nail you. Period!
If you have an accident, and the investigation determines you were over manufacturers ratings, insurance company is going to say yes, good luck with that.
If you kill someone and are over manufacturers numbers, well, sucks to be you.
No man, I hear ya. Just because you are doing it, does not mean you are doing it safe.
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Here is something else to consider. Real easy way to determine SAFE tow rating.
Take the CVWR, subtract the GVWR of the truck, and this gives you a SAFE number to stay under as far as GVWR of a trailer.
Example:
Truck has a CVWR of 27,100# Minus GVWR of truck which is 10,000# this gives you a SAFE tow rating of 17,100LBS. Stay UNDER that GVWR trailer.
Just look at the sticker usually on the left or right front of the trailer and look for the GVWR. Take 20% of that, and you will get close to pin weight to know if payload can handle, then calculate CGVW numbers and you will know what you can SAFELY tow.
Good luck!
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On 6/23/2019 at 8:45 PM, Plastik507 said:
New to this forum and new to traveling with a 5th wheel. had a quick question that I hope someone can answer for me.
Am looking at a 5th wheel to purchase that has a dry weight of 10400. I have a ram 2500 5.7L hemi with a tow capacity of 13,300 and a payload capacity a little over 4000. 1. How do I determine hitch weight? 2. Is this cutting it close as far as towing capacity?
I agree with others, I think you may be pushing it.
First of all, as stated you need to use GVWR of trailer, but let's use the dry weight of 10400#.
20% of that would be a pin weight of 2,080#
Now take another 1,000# off for you, wife, fuel, hitch, that leaves about 1,000# of payload.
Remember, this is based on a DRY trailer with no propane, water, food, clothing, gray and black tanks, I think you get the picture here. You are going to exceed payload capacity, it adds up quick!
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5 hours ago, NDBirdman said:
27 May is his last visit according to his profile. I hope he comes back and reads it. I'm seeing a lot of newbies come on, post then not come back on of late. They may be coming on and reading without logging on, I hope he and the others are.
80% of max is what I have read or been told for years. I have drove tractor/trailer at max and a little over hauling gravel before, it was not fun, those are designed to go heavy but still can make you pucker. These little trucks, don't... just don't...
Lol yea I have a CDL and to me a heavy duty truck is a class 8, the HD branding is just a marketing thing.
The other thing about semi trucks is you have the option of sliding the tandems on the trailer and can adjust the weight on the drive tires, we don't have that option.
Yes the 80 percent rule is a good guide, as is the 15 to 20 percent mentioned avove.
People think they have a truck rated at 20 thousand pounds, so that's the trailer they can haul.
Heh, if it only worked that way....
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6 hours ago, NDBirdman said:
BigDinAZ,
Now you have me drooling... VERY NICE TRUCK!!
Thank you.
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On 5/27/2019 at 9:55 AM, johnloisel said:
Greetings, all. My wife, friends and RV dealer sales people all look at me funny whenever I focus on hitch/pin weight while shopping for our 1st 5th Wheel (TT). Please help me understand the various weight limits to be considered when towing. I understand TT GVWR, UWR, CCC and TV GCWR, GAWR and max towing capacity. What I don't understand is how TT hitch weight and TV payload fit into the equation. If the TT's hitch weight is going onto the TV, it counts as payload and contributes to GVWR, right?
I'm finding many examples where folks appear to be exceeding their TV's GVWR with payload, e.g., their TT's hitch weight, but are still within their TV's GCWR and towing capacity. Example is a TV with 10k GVWR, 25,300 GCWR and factory payload (door sticker) of 1776 payload (pax, cargo, etc.). Its owner tows a TT with 10,765 GVWR and 1910 hitch weight. They're still within TV's GCWR but they're over the TV's payload and GVWR. What gives?
I'm trying to buy a 5th Wheel and want to stay within the weight limits for my TV: 2018 RAM 2500 Laramie 4x4, CC, SB, Diesel, 3.42 axle; GVWR is 10k, GCWR is 25,300, factory payload is 1942 (curb wt 8058), GAWR is 6000 steer/6500 drive, max towing capacity is 17,080. I weighed my TV using CATS scale with me and DW, full gas and a 90# ProTrax tonneau cover, results: 8240 (4940 steer, 3300 drive). The 8240 weight does not include the 185# PullRite SuperGlide hitch I intend to buy; add that and now my truck weight is 8425. Subtract that from my 10k GVWR and my available payload = 1575#, right?
So, based on above, my 5th Wheel's hitch weight cannot exceed 1575# or I'll be over my payload and GVWR. Does this matter? Am I okay, so long as I don't exceed my GAWR and GCWR? Please help! Thanks in advance.
Yes, The pin weight will add to the payload capacity. You are going to find out the same thing I did. I had to get rid of the 2500 for towing a larger 5er. The remaining payload you have left is on the little yellow sticker inside the driver door which you said is 1,776#.
Any 5er that I have looked at have a hitch (pin) weight of a minimum of 2,000#. Right there you are over weight. Yes they make light 5ers, but they are going to be small. Some say the gear ratio makes no difference, but I don't agree, here is why. The higher the gear ratio, the more torque, which means less stress all the way around.
Remember, the ratings you see in the ads are based on a stripped down vehicle, such as a tradesman. The higher up in package you go, the less towing and payload because there is more stuff added to the truck. I just went through all of this, and I learned this the hard way. Here is what I did.
Got rid of the 2500, and picked up a 3500 dually. It's the Laramie package with the 4:10 Gears. I have a GVWR of 14,000# rear axle rating of 9,750# and free payload of 5,704#. But because I have a Laramie package my max towing is reduced from 30,000# to like 21,660#.
Remember, all the 5ers I looked at have a pin weight of 2,000 - 2,500 lbs. Add my weight, the wife, fuel, tools, fifth wheel hitch and that's another 1,000 lbs or so which leaves me with between 2,000 and 1,500 lbs free payload left, so towing a larger fifth wheel just became doable, with more than enough left over as far as payload and axle and all that.
Google RAM Towing Chart, and you will find all the charts that will help you understand all of this.
It's a very controversial subject, and they don't make it easy to understand.
Now with all that said, you also have to figure in CVWR. If you get stopped (and they do stop RV's), they are going to look at GVWR of truck and GVWR of trailer and then compare that to what is on the scale. In some states, 25,601lbs or more, it's commercial and you DO need a CDL to drive it, Arizona is one such state.
So that is where I am at now. Have truck, looking for 5er now. I learned more on a few weeks about all of this, because I want to be safe.
Remember, just because you are doing it, does not mean you are doing it safe.
Hope this helps.
D
Need Help Understanding 5th Wheel Hitch Weight and TV Payload
in Fifth-Wheel
Posted
The trailer has a GVWR of 8880 lbs. 20% of that is 1,776 lbs. The payload on the truck is 2,499 lbs minus 1,776 leaves 723 lbs payload, minus 100 lbs for AUH is 623 lbs payload left.
A gallon of Diesel weighs 7.189 lbs so 30 gallons would be 215 lbs leaving 408 lbs. Then take away you, the wife, snacks drinks etc you are right at the max.
There are those who say meh it's fine, don't worry about it those numbers don't mean anything.
Then there are guys like me who have seen those other guys in the ditch. I have seen lots of trailers in accidents. Personally I don't like to max anything out. By the numbers you are right there, and by the numbers it should be okay, that's your call as to weather or not you are comfortable. Me I would not feel comfortable, but that's just me.
Personally with my set up, I still have over a ton of free payload, after I am maxed out on trailer weight, me, wife, fuel and all that jazz, I am couple tons under GCWR, and way, way under tow rating, and I also do a lot of one handed driving with the cruise control set, the AC on and the tunes playing. I sit nice and level, and I hardly know that 11,000 lb trailer is back there. But that's just me.
Oh and I actually have more free payload room because I don't load my trailer to the Max either, that's just based on the GVWR of the trailer.
Remember, those are all only calculated numbers, you will never really know until you put it all on a scale.
Just my .02
D