South Dakota Residency??

[Brendan853]

5 months into being a full timer.  Probably going to make South Dakota my domicile.  Is there a particular campground that people like to use as their address?

[palmeris]

https://escapees.com/mail-service/domicile/

 

[rpsinc]

https://americasmailbox.com/

[lappir]

MyHomeAddress.com

 

http://myhomeaddressinc.com/rates

Smaller company, more personal service. 

[sandsys]

19 hours ago, lappir said:

MyHomeAddress.com

http://myhomeaddressinc.com/rates

Smaller company, more personal service. 

When choosing a smaller company it is important to learn about a plan of succession.  If a single proprietor dies, your critical mail can be lost.

Linda

[lappir]

2 hours ago, sandsys said:

When choosing a smaller company it is important to learn about a plan of succession.  If a single proprietor dies, your critical mail can be lost.

Linda

Or a big company can decide they want to take the money and run, just closing with little notice. At this point in my life I don't feel anything coming from the USPS is critical. 

Rod

[Lou Schneider]

21 hours ago, lappir said:

Or a big company can decide they want to take the money and run, just closing with little notice. At this point in my life I don't feel anything coming from the USPS is critical. 

Rod

USPS requires mail forwarders to continue forwarding mail for 6 months after closure.  A large company likely has other assets the post office can go after if they don't comply, not so much for a single proprietorship that closes because the principle didn't have a succession plan. 

[Kymber]

South Dakota is a popular choice for full-timers. Many people use the addresses of campgrounds like the Badlands KOA or the Black Hills RV Park.

[sandsys]

4 hours ago, Kymber said:

South Dakota is a popular choice for full-timers. Many people use the addresses of campgrounds like the Badlands KOA or the Black Hills RV Park.

So, those two campgrounds accept your legal mail and forward it to you? There was a park back in 2008 that did that for our voter registration but nothing else. We had to provide them with a self-addressed, stamped envelope for them to put the voter registration card into so they weren't really forwarding it, just mailing it on. We still had to do our own driver's license and vehicle license in person.

Linda

[Danfreda1]

The box elder address through escapees will not work for voter’s registration anymore. People who were using that address are grandfathered in for voters registration, I don’t know how long ago. That is from the county clerk’s office in Pennington county. Reason she said is that there is no place for an rv to stay at that address. Just talked to then 2 weeks ago. We got our address in January 2020. 

[Blues]

18 hours ago, Danfreda1 said:

The box elder address through escapees will not work for voter’s registration anymore.

And pursuant to a law passed last year, no address will work for anyone unless they certify, under penalty of perjury, that they have "maintained residence in South Dakota for at least 30 days prior to submitting the registration form."

There were two other bills introduced last year that didn't pass, aimed at prohibiting people like fulltime RVers from voting in South Dakota.  They did not pass because they were unwieldy--requiring county auditors to take on the burden of investigating people's addresses--plus they would disenfranchise "real" South Dakotans who live at  commercial addresses (like campground owners who live on site, or people who live above their store). 

I listened to the floor debate on all of the bills.  One proponent said, "Residency is for sale on the internet in South Dakota. Escapees dot com--there's a satellite office at Timmons Market, it's a supermarket, nobody lives there-- sells on their website residency in South Dakota."  She pointed out that with no state income tax, South Dakota funds their government with sales tax and real estate tax, and you have to spend time in South Dakota to pay those.

Another proponent called out the Spearfish KOA--she said it's common sense that 1100 people and their families don't live at the Spearfish KOA, which is closed from October 31 to April 1. 

South Dakota's Secretary of State campaigned on tightening residency requirements for voting so that non-South Dakotans can't use campgrounds or mail forwarding services as their residential address.  What I find interesting is that Escapees said the Secretary of State told them that the 30 days required by the new law before registering to vote was 30 days in a calendar year.  However, "calendar year" is nowhere in the bill passed by the Legislature.  In fact, the bill originally said "thirty days in the year prior to submitting the registration form," and in a hearing, the bill sponsor said the bill was being amended pursuant to a request by the Secretary of State and county auditors.  What was the change?  Deleting the words "in the year."  So it's not 30 days in the year prior to submitting the registration form, and it's not 30 days in a calendar year.  It's "30 days prior to submitting the registration form."  But that's not what Escapees says the Secretary of State told them.

Given all this, if voting is important to someone, it might be wise to consider whether spending 30 days in South Dakota in order to be allowed to register to vote is worth it if there's the desire among groups and government officials in South Dakota to prohibit fulltimers from voting there.  The bills that didn't pass weren't assailed because of their fundamental unfairness to fulltimers, but rather because they were unwieldy, would require a lot of work to enforce, and could disenfranchise "real" South Dakotans.  Nobody testified that it would be unfair for fulltimers who are South Dakotans only by virtue of using a mail service there not to be allowed to vote.

 

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, Blues said:

Nobody testified that it would be unfair for fulltimers who are South Dakotans only by virtue of using a mail service there not to be allowed to vote.

You bring up a point that has been discussed for some time, probably in all three states that are popular for fulltimer domicile. If you look at things objectively, one should be able to understand the concerns of those who are promoting those bills. Since in any state, once you are registered to vote you ae able to do so for any and all elected positions and issues. Most fulltimers have no issues with an inability to elect the school board, or similar local positions, and wouldn't object to being excluded from voting for a new bond issue or some local ordinance and at least some do not. But we only have one type or class of voter so that means that you either have voting rights for all issues and races, or you have no right to vote at all. I have long believed that a reasonable answer would be to create some sort of national voter registration that would allow voting for national offices and congressional candidates only, but fulltime RV folks are a very small group that isn't well organized enough to create much interest at the national level. I am not sure that such could be done at the state level. 

[DanZemke]

The South Dakota small businesses, focused on mail forwarding, will probably fold.  Not next week, but gradually.  Full-time RVer's will probably migrate to other states over time.  

What problem prompted this change.  IMO, there was no problem.  There was an opportunity for a few loud-mouth SD legislators politicians to stir the pot and get some publicity.

It's unclear to me, how South Dakota will benefit from this.

Edited August 14 by DanZemke
clarification

[rickeieio]

Dan,

Read Kirk's response just before yours.  There is a problem, and it's that South Dakotans feel that full timers are diluting their vote on local issues.  I can't say I blame them.

[Lou Schneider]

This change puts South Dakota on equal footing with numerous other states.  For example I domicile in Nevada (no state income tax) and in order to claim residency you have to present a receipt for 30 days rent at a campground, apartment or motel and/or a utility bill covering the same period.  Then you can get a NV drivers license, register to vote, etc.

[Chalkie]

37 minutes ago, rickeieio said:

Dan,

Read Kirk's response just before yours.  There is a problem, and it's that South Dakotans feel that full timers are diluting their vote on local issues.  I can't say I blame them.

I think it is probably very few South Dakotans feel that way and I also think that there are very few full timers using South Dakota that care much about local politics. Although I am in Texas and I follow local politics to the extent of what I read in the paper, however, I do not vote on local issues because I really don't have a dog in that fight since I do not have the tax liabilities of homeowners or have children attending the local schools, etc. I know I am not in a minority with this thinking at least based on conversations with others here in our park. 

[Kirk W]

22 minutes ago, Lou Schneider said:

For example I domicile in Nevada (no state income tax) and in order to claim residency you have to present a receipt for 30 days rent at a campground, apartment or motel and/or a utility bill covering the same period. 

While Alaska, Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Washington, and Wyoming all have no state income tax, several of them do not accept a mail service address for things like vehicle registration, driver's licensing, voter registration, ad usually several other items. We used to live in WY and have friends whose going fulltime inspired us to do the same, but our friends registered all of those things to the address on a longtime friend, as though they lived there. I don't know about all of the others but I'm suspicious that WY is not the only one like that. For example, The New Hampshire Division of Motor Vehicles (DMV) accepts several documents as proof of residency, including:

A notarized letter from a current resident or property owner

A mortgage statement for the address provided

A current utility bill or service bill that shows the physical address

A government check or document issued by an official in the municipality of residence

A payroll check, document, or employment contract

[DanZemke]

6 hours ago, rickeieio said:

Dan,

Read Kirk's response just before yours.  There is a problem, and it's that South Dakotans feel that full timers are diluting their vote on local issues.  I can't say I blame them.

I already did.  

Read Blue's report above your post. Here's a small, relevant extract: "South Dakota's Secretary of State campaigned on tightening residency requirements for voting so that non-South Dakotans can't use campgrounds or mail forwarding services as their residential address."

There is a problem - it's a politically manufactured one. I haven't been able to find a single example of outsiders affecting a vote on a local or state-wide issue.  Why not?  Here's a link to an old article about the subject, to illustrate how long it's been percolating.

https://www.argusleader.com/story/news/2019/03/05/thousands-south-dakota-voters-dont-live-where-they-register-news-watch/3065884002/

Here's the click-me link to the same article.
 Argus Leader story 
 
Instilling baseless fear, is a classic political technique.  IMO, that is what is going on here.  And we're unlikely to fix it. 

Time for me to move on.  I'm canceling my Dakota Post mail forwarding service - no fault of theirs.

Edited August 12 by DanZemke
spelling error

[Danfreda1]

6 hours ago, rickeieio said:

Dan,

Read Kirk's response just before yours.  There is a problem, and it's that South Dakotans feel that full timers are diluting their vote on local issues.  I can't say I blame them.

We have never voted in the local elections in South Dakota only the presidential elections. 

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, Danfreda1 said:

We have never voted in the local elections in South Dakota only the presidential elections. 

But if registered in SD you could vote in any or all races and issues. The average resident has no way to know who votes for what and they probably believe that all RV folks vote on everything. The issue has come up in Polk County, TX as well and in fact a former county commissioner there sued to block Escapee mailservice domiciled people from voting in TX. The case went completely through the TX courts, eventually the TX supreme court and the fulltime voting right was upheld. If TX were to pass laws such as the changes looked at in SD, that could, and likely would change. 

As far as the state wide elections in any of the states popular with fulltimers, I doubt that there are enough votes cast to have much impact, but at the county level it very likely could. I know that the county commissioner who challenged Escapee voters was never successful in another election. 

[rickeieio]

Kirk, you bring up a good point....What is the population of resident South Dakotans v. domiciled full timers claiming residency?  In 2022, there were 909,824 folks there, including full timers.   It's not hard to imagine that perhaps 15% are full timers.

We spent time in SD this summer visiting with camping friends who actually live there.  Their concern is that enough full time folks could vote a straight party ticket, not caring about the local candidates, and skew the vote of local residents.   What I do know, is that sticks and bricks South Dakotans are worried, and calling their legislators.

[Kirk W]

According to the SD Secretary of State, there were 143,993 registered voters in the last primary election, and I doubt that 10%(14,399) of them are fulltimes, but that is only my guess. To have any idea how many are actually RV fulltimers would take information from each of the mail services that are in SD. If you do find that information, discussing it here would change nothing but you will need someone who is willing to go to SD and lobby for the changes you are looking for. Who knows how many of the SD voters are concerned about this issue but I suspect that you could find a significant share who are in the counties that are home to one of the busier mail services and likely few if any in counties where there is no such service.

The US Constitution says almost nothing about who has the right to vote or who controls that. he Fourteenth Amendment is the first address of the issue.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Since then there have been additional laws passed at the federal level, but voter qualification & registration remain state issues so rules do differ from state to state. As far as I am able to find, there are no states that provide for more than one type of voter registration so there are only two options, either you qualify to vote the entire ballot, or you do not qualify to vote at all. It would probably be possible to create some type of registration to allow voting for president & vice president at the Congressional level, but that would likely be challenged by at least some states and I suspect that it would not satisfy all of those who are fulltime. As far as I can see, there is no chance of federal action on this issue in our lifetime and changes at the state level will not be easily accomplished. 

[Lou Schneider]

27 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

According to the SD Secretary of State, there were 143,993 registered voters in the last primary election, and I doubt that 10%(14,399) of them are fulltimes, but that is only my guess.

I'll bet it's not the statewide vote but local and regional elections that are the issue.  America's Mailbox for example is located in Box Elder, a city of 12,000 in a county of 109,000 people.  Several hundred to a thousand mail forwarding customers could seriously affect local and even sway close regional elections.  Other large mail forwarding companies are likewise mostly located in low overhead, low population towns.

[Kirk W]

I just edited my previous post. The registration numbers that I was looking at were only for one party. The 603,593 is what it should have said. Voter registration by county is also available form the new source that I found. Box Elder is in Pennington County which shows 88,322 registered voters. So I was way low before. I think that I probably should have caught that sooner. 🥴 

Since elections are often decided with less that 10% difference, it is easy to see that 1000 or more voting fulltimers could sway an election. It could also sift the party numbers. 

 

[Blues]

On 8/12/2024 at 9:01 AM, Lou Schneider said:

This change puts South Dakota on equal footing with numerous other states.  For example I domicile in Nevada (no state income tax) and in order to claim residency you have to present a receipt for 30 days rent at a campground, apartment or motel and/or a utility bill covering the same period.  Then you can get a NV drivers license, register to vote, etc.

The 30-day residency requirement is only for registering to vote.  It was called "An Act to revise residency requirements for the purposes of voter registration."

There's nothing in that bill relating to people establishing domicile in South Dakota after staying in the state for one night.