My Latest Solar/Inverter/Battery System Update

[Chad Heiser]

I was going over some of my old posts and realized I said I would post some information about the new system (as of June 2022) in my new rig.  I posted a brief synopsis of it here back in June 2022 after the West Coast Rally, but never followed up with any more information.  We just spent a month down in Quartzsite from the end of January to the end of February boondocking the whole time with other HDTers and friends.  I am very happy with the new rig and the new system.  The new rig is much better for boondocking than our last one for two main reasons. 

The first reason is we are back to a standard RV toilet instead of the macerator toilet we had in the last rig.  This means we use a lot less water when flushing the toilet.  This lets us go much longer before having to empty the black tank.  We only had to empty it twice in the month we were in Q and it wasn't completely full either time.  We were lucky to get 10 days out of the black tank in the last rig with the macerator toilet. 

The second reason is my latest "system".  I couldn't be happier with the new system.  Like I said, we just spent a month boondocking.  We lived like we were plugged in the whole time.  We didn't take any special measures to conserve power, other than turning the big inverters off when we went to bed.  (I have a small inverter dedicated to the residential refrigerator that stays on 24/7 to always keep the refrigerator running.)  We had multiple days of cloudy and cold weather, so we ran the forced air furnace quite a bit and my wife used her seat heater in the theater seating quite a bit.  We watched TV, used the microwave, Instapot, coffee pot, my wife's hair dryer and curling iron, etc.  I had Starlink satellite internet running whenever the big inverters were on.  We also had the normal 12 volt loads from lights and other stuff.  I never drew the batteries down below 50% state of charge and we were back to 100% state of charge every afternoon (with the exception of a couple of full cloud cover days).  I ran the on board generator once the entire trip.  This was at the end of the trip a couple days before we left.  I didn't need to run the generator, but decided to exercise it for an hour because it had been over a month since I ran it the last time.  My generator only has a total of approximately 7 hours on it, which is almost all just running it to exercise it since we bought the rig in May 2022.

Here is a diagram of the system in my rig:

The system has more power than we (or most people) really need.  I can run anything (and everything) in my rig whether it is plugged in or not.  I have literally turned everything on at once and run it all from battery power (three AC's, fireplace, microwave, entertainment center, lights, etc.) with no issues.  Of course I can't do this for long periods.  I am obviously limited by how much solar production is occurring and how much battery capacity I have.  The system has 1080 amp hours of lithium batteries, two 5KVA Victron Quattro inverter chargers (one on each leg of the 50 amp RV power panel and programmed to run in 120/240 volt split phase), one 1.2KVA Victron Phoenix inverter (dedicated to the residential refrigerator and the outlets in the bedroom slide), 3390 watts of solar, three Victron MPPT solar charge controllers (capable of a total of 225 amps of DC production at full output), a 1000 amp Victron Smartshunt (monitoring the battery bank), a 500 amp Victron SmartShunt (monitoring general 12 volt loads), two Victron Lynx Distributors supplying power and circuit protection to the system and a Lynx Power In where each battery is connected individually to the system.  I also have a Victron Autotransformer installed after the on board Onan 5500 watt gas generator.  This takes the 120 volt generator output and transforms it to 120/240 volt power to feed directly to the second inputs on the Quattro inverters.  This negated the need for the onboard automatic transfer switch because the Quattros have built in transfer switches to switch between two power inputs (typically shore and generator).  Rather than remove the ATS, I added a second shore power connection to the front of the trailer and wired it to the ATS where the generator used to connect.  This gives me more options for plugging the trailer in when I need to.  I also have a Victron Cerbo GX communication device with a seven inch touch screen display.  The Cerbo communicates with all the Victron equipment and the internet.  I added an Atkinson Electronics GSCM mini generator start control module.  This device interacts with the Cerbo and allows the Cerbo to fully control the on board generator and auto start it based on a number of triggers and parameters that I can set up.

The Cerbo GX adds all kinds of functionality and data logging to the system.  I can literally control or program any component or function from anywhere (as long as I have internet and the trailer has internet).  I can turn the inverters or generator on/off remotely, set the AC Input Current Limit, see the solar production information, battery state of charge, etc.  In addition to this standard functionality, the Cerbo also allows integration of other systems.  My rig came with Sea Level tank gauges.  It is a newer version of the Sea Level gauges that communicates over RV-C protocol.  I was able to integrate the RV-C output of the Sea Level gauges into the Cerbo so I can see all my tank levels on the Cerbo display or remotely through the internet.  Victron also recently added Bluetooth sensor monitoring through the Cerbo.  Specifically Mopeka LPG and Water tank Bluetooth sensors and Ruuvi Bluetooth temperature sensors.  I added Mopeka sensors to my LPG tanks and the two gasoline tanks (generator and toy tanks) in the trailer.  This allows me to see the levels in those tanks right next to the Sea Level tank levels on the Cerbo.  I also have six Ruuvi temperature sensors mounted in my rig.  I have them in the bedroom, living room, garage, inverter compartment, at the pin box outside and in the refrigerator.  I can now monitor temperatures at all of those locations remotely through the Cerbo.

Here is what the tanks display looks like on the Cerbo:

Here is another screen showing the tank information as well as other information about the system:

Here is the main Cerbo display showing the flow of energy in the system:

Here is the basic VRM Dashboard that you see when you log into the system through the internet:

Finally, here is the control panel through the VRM Portal that allows you to directly control items in the rig from anywhere:

There is a lot more available through VRM, but these are the basics.

Finally, here is a link to pictures of my system as I was installing it and other information about the system on my website.

[Kirk W]

Talk about being impressed!  WOW! Someone like New Horizons or Bowlus should pay you to design a system for them. Would you share a rough estimate of what it would cost for someone to put something similar into their own RV?

You make me wish that we were just starting our fulltme experience and about 20 or so years younger! 

[oldjohnt]

CONGRATULATIONS and thanks for the detailed update Chad, it may bore some but for this old engineer I TRULY ENJOYED YOUR POST.

 I only have a 29 Ft Class C and don't require near your energy HOWEVER I upgraded to Solar and Lithium batteries AM HAPPY AND NEVER LOOKING BACK. Sure it requires a substantial initial investment (and is NOT for everyone) but the freedom to dry camp anywhere for indefinite time at little to no cost makes it worthwhile to me at least.  UNLESS its rainy n cloudy for days on end, like you I can dry camp almost indefinitely (like if I were plugged in) WITHOUT ever firing up my genset. I also added a DC to DC charger so when driving in cloudy or rainy days I can top off my lithium batteries.   

 I took a different route as far as black tank and being able to go long periods before having to dump. I use a Thetford Electra Magic 80 Marine Recirculating Toilet which enables the two of us to go almost two weeks before having to dump.  

 GREAT SYSTEM, gotta love Solar, thanks for sharing, you are an inspiration to those who may be considering upgrades !!! As always, nice sparky chatting with you  

 John T Long retired Electrical Engineer but love this sparky chat and love Solar

 

[dennisvr]

Very impressive setup.  Thanks for the writeup on your system and all the help you have given to me and others on our setups.  I will be asking for some assistance in a few days on a system I'm installing for a friend, I'm not sure of the settings for the various components.  I will be installing a Cerbo so I'm wondering if you could log into it thru VRM and do the setting thru there?  
Again thanks for your expertise.  

[DanZemke]

3 hours ago, dennisvr said:

Very impressive setup.  Thanks for the writeup

👍

[Chad Heiser]

5 hours ago, Kirk W said:

Talk about being impressed!  WOW! Someone like New Horizons or Bowlus should pay you to design a system for them. Would you share a rough estimate of what it would cost for someone to put something similar into their own RV?

You make me wish that we were just starting our fulltme experience and about 20 or so years younger! 

This system is not cheap.  Retail it is around $25 to 30K (depending on the specific components and the time involved in the installation).  Like I said, it is bigger than what most anybody really needs.  Although I have built a handful of systems that are very similar but use two 3KVA Multiplus inverter chargers rather than two 5KVA Quattro inverter chargers like in mine.

I built this system for a couple of reasons.  First, I wanted to show that a large, high power system like this is perfectly viable on a 12 volt battery bank.  A lot of internet "experts" say you have to go to a higher voltage battery bank to run a high output system like this.  That just isn't true as long as the infrastructure for the system (the wiring) is properly designed and installed.  At its maximum capabilities, this system is only 2000 watts less (10000 vs 12000) than a 50 amp power pedestal.  I have said this many times here and other places, I prefer to go with a 12 volt installation in RV's that already have an OEM 12 volt system.  I don't like having to convert back to 12 volt from a higher voltage system as it leads to a potential single point of failure that can strand you.  If the voltage converter fails, then you have no lights, no jacks, no slides, etc. until it is replaced or you do some rewiring. 

The second reason I built this system was to show the possibilities of what can be done to people who are looking to build a system or have a system built.  Sometimes talking about what is possible just isn't enough.  I wanted to be able to show someone specifically what is possible and what it would look like in real life.

[Chad Heiser]

4 hours ago, dennisvr said:

I will be installing a Cerbo so I'm wondering if you could log into it thru VRM and do the setting thru there?  

Yes, this would be possible.

[Kirk W]

6 hours ago, Chad Heiser said:

I wanted to be able to show someone specifically what is possible and what it would look like in real life.

It would seem to me that you accomplished that goal and in fine style. And if one were to get a system like yours in a new RV and then keep it for 15 years or more, that $30k isn't that difficult to amortize with the freedom that it gives and lack of any need to stay in RV parks. When you look at the cost of some of the top line RVs today, another $25-$30k really isn't that far out of line and something scaled down could be very reasonable in today's RV lifestyle. 

Thanks again for sharing your latest project! 

[oldjohnt]

6 hours ago, Chad Heiser said:

This system is not cheap.  Retail it is around $25 to 30K (depending on the specific components and the time involved in the installation)

HOWEVER with your relative high energy requirements your system is much bigger than many people would ever need, so of course, that's gonna cost more. As solar prices keep dropping and technology improves the cost benefit and amortization gets better all the time. For a more reasonable perhaps $2K to $5K a modest energy user can become energy independent. 

 As we often preach when someone asks how much solar and batteries he needs PERFORM AN ENERGY AUDIT first.

 Thanks for the cost figures and I hope they don't scare off those with lower energy requirements.

 John T

 

[Chad Heiser]

39 minutes ago, oldjohnt said:

HOWEVER with your relative high energy requirements your system is much bigger than many people would ever need, so of course, that's gonna cost more. As solar prices keep dropping and technology improves the cost benefit and amortization gets better all the time. For a more reasonable perhaps $2K to $5K a modest energy user can become energy independent. 

 As we often preach when someone asks how much solar and batteries he needs PERFORM AN ENERGY AUDIT first.

 Thanks for the cost figures and I hope they don't scare off those with lower energy requirements.

 John T

 

Like I said, my system is overkill for the vast majority of RVers.  People can definitely get by with a lot less.  I have gotten by with a lot less in previous RVs.  It all comes down to individual needs and budget.  I spend a lot of time talking to people about their style of RVing and how they plan to use their system/what they plan to run before any work ever gets done.  Then we look at the budget and what can get done based on that.  Sometimes more pairing down is required to fit the budget.  I use all high end components in my systems, which does add cost.  They also add quality and functionality with that cost, so it isn't like you are just paying more for a particular name. 

An energy audit is a great place to start before going out and spending a bunch of money.  If your energy needs are low, there is no need to add a bunch of extra capacity to the system (which also adds cost).  If you spend most of your time in RV parks, then there is no need for a large capacity system either.  Boondocking overnight here and there between RV parks requires much less than a die hard boondocker that only occasionally stays in a park.  There is definitely not a one size fits all answer when it comes to RV solar.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Chad Heiser

[lappir]

Chad, 

Thanks for the update and a reminder for me to let you know your system is working very well for me and it exactly what I asked for when building my rig. Too bad it took nearly 10 years for me to get it. 

I'd like to have a system similar to yours. The ability to run everything I need and never have to plug into an outlet every. I'll do it some day, but need to decide if I want to do it with the trailer I have now or if it's better to fix everything at once with a new one. I'm going to start reaching out to some folks about that. 

In reading I saw you went back to a "Regular" RV toilet. I went the other way and purchased a Natures Head composting toilet and will never go back to a "Regular" RV toilet again. It was a little less expensive than the one I think I really want and I could also see it, feel it and evaluate at least the construction before the purchase. (I hate online shopping). 

Now that you have your system completed and know the exact component costs, have you ventured to evaluate the potential cost savings you could have had by going with a 48volt system vs staying with your 12 volt?  If I have a new trailer built I think I will have every thing set up similar to the sticks and bricks as far as voltage. The only converters necessary would be the ones that come with the disposable items, i.e. phone chargers, computer power blocks and such. I remember you had strong feelings about going away from 12 volts. 

 

Thanks again for you post, photos and other information. I'm getting closer to heading west for a bit so I hope I can attend a WCR and then say I've been to them all. 

 

Rod

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Rod, I went with a 24 volt system that is solely used by the inverters for 120v AC power. I still have (2) 12v batteries that are used for hotel loads in the RV that can be charged from shore power, (2) dedicated solar panels or off of the 24v bank. It makes it a little more complicated but allows me to be able to work on each system independently.

In my case I already had most of the system in place before going to solar and decided to stay with a Magnum inverter/charger. The only way to get a 4000 watt inverter from Magnum is by going to a 24v system so that required some way to do that and keep a 12v system available. I don't like a single point of failure that a transformer would create so the decision to use two battery banks was an easy one to make.

This is similar to a motor home with a chassis battery and a house battery setup except that they don't have the capability to boost each other if needed.

[RV_]

Wow! Awesome again Chad. Thanks for the guides from experience rather than research.

I think many look at ROI erroneously when talking about your kind of system and even the smaller units. Or home generator/solar/battery installs.

What I pay for with solar systems and tech is the fun first then peace of mind and with RV systems for almost total freedom from power needs.

Our new house we built in Louisiana in 2016 had numerous power outages. (Above ground semi-rural antique poles/powerlines) I find the heat and humidity intolerable to sleep and relax in without A/C. We started with a Propane system and our own 250 gallon tank but it was only 15kw and stalled sometimes trying to start the 4 ton A/C. It was Air Cooled Generac with a Kohler engine.

So we had a 25kw natural gas generator and Auto switch installed and total having it done was the cost of the four cylinder water cooled Mitsubishi engine generator and install was ~ $11k with our trade in. Maybe more or a bit less.

When we discussed it we acknowledged there would be no ROI. But every time the power went out, often there and for a day or night many times. 

We would count the ten to 15 seconds the generator computer took to come on and every time it did we looked at each other, smiled and said "WORTH IT!" 

We hope to do full solar and PowerWalls to our home soon once we determine where we will live for the rest of our lives. Still looking.

And for all of us it is time to stop the solar panel tariffs we have in place. Once the price comes down enough Tesla and other US solar manufacturers will have to compete with them. And we all win. Since homes have water, sewer, and a grid connection the only thing that could stop free power after panels and PowerWall initial expenses, home or RVs, would be a nuclear winter, or asteroid impact/nuclear winter blocking the sun for decades to hundreds of years. Fortunately saving the money for solar etc. won't mean much then. Spending it won't either as we would all be gone or going anyway.

Safe Travels!

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by RV_

[Chad Heiser]

5 hours ago, RV_ said:

Wow! Awesome again Chad. Thanks for the guides from experience rather than research.

I think many look at ROI erroneously when talking about your kind of system and even the smaller units. Or home generator/solar/battery installs.

What I pay for with solar systems and tech is the fun first then peace of mind and with RV systems for almost total freedom from power needs.

I am similar when it comes to ROI on a system like this.  I kind of geek out on this stuff and really like all the cool stuff I can do with the system in addition to the freedom it gives me.

 

13 hours ago, lappir said:

Now that you have your system completed and know the exact component costs, have you ventured to evaluate the potential cost savings you could have had by going with a 48volt system vs staying with your 12 volt? 

There would be some savings, but it wouldn’t be as much as you would think.  The components themselves cost basically the same whether they are 12 volt or 48 volt (at least with Victron).  You could save money on solar controllers with Victron because the same controller from a 12 volt system can handle four times the wattage on a 48 volt system.  You would loose some redundancy though because if that single solar controller dies, you have no solar production.  With my 12 volt system, one controller is only approximately a third of the production so I can get by until the bad controller is replaced.  You would also save a little bit of money by being able to use smaller gauge wire, but this savings is eaten up in the need to either add a step down converter or a separate 12 volt system to run the OEM 12 volt stuff.

6 hours ago, RV_ said:

When we discussed it we acknowledged there would be no ROI. But every time the power went out, often there and for a day or night many times. 

We would count the ten to 15 seconds the generator computer took to come on and every time it did we looked at each other, smiled and said "WORTH IT!" !

Our RV is our “back generator”.  Whenever we loose power at the house (which happens a lot more frequently now with California’s wonderful Public Safety Power Shutoffs), we just move into the RV and live like normal until the power comes back.  We just did it last week when we got a freak snow storm and lost power for two and a half days due to downed power lines.  We have the same sentiment as you, “worth it.”

[lappir]

Thanks Chad, 

 

Again awesome information. 

Rod

[GlennWest]

You have a first rate system Chad. I went a cheaper route than Victron. Time will tell if good choice or not. I have no problem with 48v system. I did have a hydraulic problem and thought mistakeling it was voltage problem. But I also have electric levelers so not as much 12v load as some. I was considering Scheinder XW Pro. Decided against against it as it was 6500 watt rating. David Poze did a you tube video on that unit. He has no gas appliances at all and runs his whole house with this inverter. It will handle way more than it is rated at. If that had been posted before my purchase I would have went that route. My inverters will handle 500v mppt each unit. I have 4500 watt of panels. 10 total. I have ran 5 to each inverter. I getting avgerage of 233v into each inverter. May go higher on cool mornings with lots of sun but haven't checked. I just ran #10 pv cable to inverters. As many know on here I have Leaf battery packs totaling 21kwh. I have not verified the kwh though. 

[dennisvr]

9 hours ago, Chad Heiser said:

Our RV is our “back generator”.  Whenever we loose power at the house (which happens a lot more frequently now with California’s wonderful Public Safety Power Shutoffs), we just move into the RV and live like normal until the power comes back.  We just did it last week when we got a freak snow storm and lost power for two and a half days due to downed power lines.  We have the same sentiment as you, “worth it.”

I often wondered if I could hook my trailer into an automatic transfer switch and plug it into my house and use the power generated from my rv solar/inverter to power a subpanel in my house to run the circuits that I now power up when the power is out, and I use my back up generater.

[dennisvr]

On 3/1/2023 at 11:37 AM, Chad Heiser said:

Yes, this would be possible.

I hooked up the Cerbo yesterday and somehow messed up the starlink that i connected to.  Guess I'll be looking into this today in between my Nascar duties here in Vegas.  

[Anawilliam850]

Thanks for sharing the details of your new system and how it performed during your boondocking trip! It sounds like you have a very robust system with plenty of power and monitoring capabilities. I'm glad to hear that the switch back to a standard RV toilet has made a big difference in your water usage and allowed you to go longer between black tank dumps.

It's impressive that you can run everything in your rig off battery power, though I can imagine that you would need to be mindful of your solar production and battery capacity to avoid draining your batteries too low. It's also great to hear that you didn't need to run your generator much and were able to rely on your solar setup for most of your power needs.

The Cerbo GX sounds like a really useful addition to your system, especially with the ability to control and monitor your components remotely. It's interesting to hear that it can also integrate with other systems, which could provide even more functionality and flexibility.

Thanks for sharing your experience and the diagram of your system! It's always interesting to hear about how people are customizing their rigs and improving their boondocking setups.