Taxation Nation: Which State Taxes Matter to You?

Vladimir · February 21, 2023

1 hour ago, RV_ said:

I posted these here before but I have found them useful for finding the least likely to have drought and another for least likely to have wildfires. We don't have them in town yet but according to the map our neighborhood is likely to not just be where inhaling the smoke from western states, but to burn as well.

I can drill down to my zip code with this one: https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/interactive/2022/wildfire-risk-map-us/?utm_source=pocket_saves.................................

I take it from your comments that you are in Colorado Springs.

I did look at the original document mentioned in the Washington Post article a few months ago. Not impressed. I don't think they had a forester or anybody for that matter with a background in natural resources and fire.

The Forest Service has done a study on communities at risk in the Pacific Northwest. When we moved into our current primary home, my wife asked, "if we have a wildfire what do we do". My answer was "WHEN we have a wildfire, this is what we are going to do."

Our risk of losing our house is 1% EVERY YEAR according to the odds posted by the Forest Service. That is probably about right. In the 20 years we have lived here, wildfires have burned up to our property line three times and we get evacuation notices every other year. I try and schedule a meeting with my insurance agent EVERY year.

Contact your local Forest Service, BLM or state DNR office and talk to them about wildfires. You will get a honest opinion.

I was working a fire in Montana when the Colorado Springs fire broke and all those homes burned. My BLM Supervisor called me into his office and showed me the air photos of the fire. His comment was " those first rows of homes were burned due to a wildfire, the other homes were lost to a urban fire." In Napa, Santa Rosa, Talent, Oregon and a host of other communities the first row of homes were lost to wildfires, but the rest were lost due to URBAN zoning and regulations.

So I would stay out of "urban" settings next to wildlands. Those are ugly areas.

On smoke. It is my professional opinion that we have ANOTHER 40 years of burning down our public lands before smoke is no longer an issue. I have seen ONE study that is more optimistic, that in the southern Sierra's it will be only 25 years before we burn down the National Forests and Giant Sequoia groves and convert them to brushfields.

The Forest Service now shows the Rocky Mountain area with NEGATIVE tree growth for the first time since the Forest Service started keeping records a century ago. We are burning MORE TREES than we GROW on National Forest lands in the Rockies.

But the smoke in Colorado Springs will come from elsewhere. We still have decades to burn down the National Forests of the northern Rockies and the coast ranges of Oregon and Washington.

If your interested in the issue and solutions that work click on this link: https://californiasaf.org/2022/03/24/western-wildfire-position-paper-camp-70/

Wrote parts of it and signed my name to it.

But a lawyer trumps a forester when it comes to forest management. The last 30 years of public forestry has proven that lawyers don't have a clue when it comes to managing forests.

Vladimir

RV_ · February 23, 2023

On 2/21/2023 at 2:51 PM, Vladimir said:

I did look at the original document mentioned in the Washington Post article a few months ago. Not impressed.

If your interested in the issue and solutions that work click on this link: https://californiasaf.org/2022/03/24/western-wildfire-position-paper-camp-70/

Vlad I checked your article and read your 8 recommendations to fix it. This thread is another topic. I'll answer in kind for finding a good rough idea of where is less likely to have wildfires and smoke in your article, "Not impressed."

If the folks sharpshooting the tax article have a better link I would thank them for it. Same with you, do you hasve a link with less or no wildfire smoke? I'd thank you for it.

You and your fellow 1972 grads of wrote a paper on what you think should be done. I am NOT interested in what needs to be done. I am interested in moving away to a place with less smoke and fires and drought. You and your fellows have my kudos for going to school to be foresters.

"I was working a fire in Montana when the Colorado Springs fire broke and all those homes burned." Which fire in the Springs and what year?

I passed the WAPO map along for folks who like me could care less what needs to be done, we are moving - if I can convince SWMBO I am moving away. This thread was not about how to fix it. I hope y'all git R dun. However, like the tax link for states, I do not need to know how to reduce taxes in the west or start fixing what causes the fires either.

Not only off topic but rude about it too. So I answer in kind, I am not impressed with your off-topic post either, neither does fixing it help me pick a place with less chances of smoke like here, and far enough away for some of the smoke to disperse without a blanket of fire smoke.

Might I suggest you start a thread in the RV legislation thread in the top RV topics group here and recommend the folks staying in the West contact their representatives with your group's recommendations. RVrs might want their Western states to do something.

Like I post in Veterans perhaps you could post legislation that helps with it for us in RV legislation whenever you see them and we can write our representatives to pass them.

That is a positive comment. You stay in wildfire country, not me. I might have another 15 - 20 years breathing, or not, but I can do it somewhere without the heat and humidity of the South or the Wildfires of the West, probably live longer too. It seems other people's preferences offend folks here. And draws fire. Newbies here be aware.

You offered less help than the ones criticizing the Tax link. No help for folks moving and looking to get away from the smoke and pollution of wildfires added to an area's normal air pollution.

Vlad I checked your article and read your 8 recommendations to reduce/fix wildfires. This thread is another topic. I'll answer in kind for finding a good rough idea of where is less likely to have them like the maps I linked to, your post? "Not impressed." We have that in common.

You and your fellow 1972 grads of University of California School of Forestry wrote a paper on what you think should be done about the forest fires. I am NOT interested in what needs to be done. I am interested in moving away. You and your fellows have my kudos for going to school to be foresters and writing that paper. Could you show me where it shows best tax base places or the least wildfire places better than mine?

"I was working a fire in Montana when the Colorado Springs fire broke and all those homes burned." Which fire in the Springs and what year?

You have no help for me and folks moving and looking for best, not perfect places to get away from areas most likely to have terrible smoke and wildfires from other states and this one.

I'll stick with my tools to point me in the right direction then take it from there. Look deeper then visit.

For those who live in the East and haven't been in the West during wildfire season which is mostly spring summer and fall, a picture is worth a thousand words. We had wildfire smoke in Louisiana the last few years but when we moved here were shocked and coughing from it. Below is a pic of Pike's Peak in the summer with wildfire smoke for folks far East of here that see a haze but not like here. This smoke was from fires not anywhere near us, or even in our state. This pic is from my front yard.

On sunny days, with no wildfires in states West of us, there's not even much haze. The last pic is sunset with a storm raining on Pike's Peak aside from dusk Pike's Peak is clear as a bell from the same place I took the first one clear as a bell.

Safe Breathing and drinking water aplenty!

Edited February 23, 2023 by RV_

Vladimir · February 24, 2023

The important thing to remember is that we have another 40 years before the wildfire situation will abate on public lands. Nobody is showing ANY interest in preventing the wholesale burning of our National Forests, National Parks, BLM and US Fish and Wildlife lands.

That said.....here is a trustworthy source on the risk to your house. Losing a home in a wildfire is a RARE event. You will burn down your house before a wildfire!!

In a average year, ONLY 5% of homes are lost due to wildfires and that is an overestimate.

Here is the opening page of the website: https://www.fs.usda.gov/managing-land/fire/wildfirerisk

If you want to skip and go to the data: https://wildfirerisk.org/explore/0/53/53007/5300077105/

This will show you the Wenatchee area, but you can add other towns and look at their risk as well.

SMOKE.....is not as cut and dry as risk to your home. Quite frankly, SMOKE not the destruction of homes is the issue. The estimate is that we have 20,000 excess deaths EVERY YEAR in this country due to wildfire smoke. Since the start of the mega-fire era in 1988 that is a LOT of dead people.

This site will give you a fire history since 2000.

https://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=47.48759,-120.29755&z=11&b=om&a=sma%2Cfire

Again, I centered on Wenatchee, but you can scroll around. Smoke is like water, it goes down a drainage. So when your looking at this data set, pay attention to topography. Areas that burned in the past will burn again in the future, until we convert the vegetation to grass and brush which put up much less smoke for a much shorter duration. That is why in 40 years the smoke will abate, we will have burned down all the trees on our public lands.

The next 40 years, smoke will be an issue throughout the US. For downwind communities they will be living with smoke for a long, long time.

So smoke free places to live in the US. The list is pretty short in the western US.

Coastal California north of San Francisco to the Oregon line. Stay away from San Francisco, remember smoke follows the drainage.

In Oregon and Washington the coastal and Cascade forests will burn again, similar to the 2020 events in Oregon. Those were with east winds that blow the smoke to coastal communities. Not bad, your really talking about a month or more in some years. The problem is "little" fires like the one along US2 in Washington state that poured smoke into the Seattle area for weeks last summer.

North Idaho and western Montana are primed to repeat the fire history of the 1910 fire. My professional opinion is that it will happen in the next ten years. That means smoke across the entire tier of US states all the way to New England.

Unlike 1910, I don't think we will burn over a million acres at one time. They will be large fires, year after year that produce the smoke year after year.

I don't know enough about east coast weather patterns to comment on smoke back east, but my guess is I would hug the Gulf Coast.

Hope this helps on your decision where to move to avoid smoke. Really the coast region of California north of San Francisco isn't bad.

RV_ · February 25, 2023

On 2/21/2023 at 2:51 PM, Vladimir said:

I did look at the original document mentioned in the Washington Post article a few months ago. Not impressed.

Paraphrased : "Vlad I did look at the links with wildfire risks - Not impressed.

Same info, same colors, but the WAPO map was much easier to navigate east and west, and did not require a new search for each area.

Perhaps you could start your own thread about long term wildfire solutions for Foresters. Then folks could find it again.

Folks looking for Wildfire risk maps would not search for that by entering "Taxation Nation: Which State Taxes Matter to You?," this thread.

Such excellent information deserves its own thread.

kb0zke · February 25, 2023

Before we decided to become full-time RV'ers we started looking at communities where we might want to retire. Jo Ann and I made up lists of what was important to each of us, then we discussed our lists to make one list. Then we started looking at various communities around the country. If we had found one that completely suited us we probably never would have purchased an RV.

Yes, the day will come when we need to hang up the keys and live a less mobile life. While much of our family is concentrated in one area, we're not greatly impressed with that - now. That may change as we age and more frequent trips to doctors and hospitals become part of our lives. For now, though, we like to keep the tires inflated so we can go elsewhere whenever we want.

Vladimir · February 25, 2023

3 hours ago, RV_ said:

Paraphrased : "Vlad I did look at the links with wildfire risks - Not impressed.

It is my PROFESSIONAL opinion.

You can always go look for a second opinion.

Kirk W · February 25, 2023

10 hours ago, kb0zke said:

Yes, the day will come when we need to hang up the keys and live a less mobile life.

While there are many reasons that people choose to live one place or to avoid another, eventually most of us find it important to be near our children or other family. We were fortunate in that 2 of our sons have chosen to settle in the state of our preference, even though we moved from the state where they grew up. As the years pass proximity to them has begun to grow in importance. Job related factors tend to decline in importance, while health and medical issues become more important. It has been amazing to me the number of things my parents talked about in their declining years that were forgotten, but now incidents in my life trigger those memories. The son who gave us the most grief in his teen years is now our most reliable helper! A neighbor that celebrated his one hundredth birthday last month told me that one of the best things about it was that he has outlived all of his former enemies! Getting old my not be all fun, but it certainly beats the only alternative. 😏

Edited February 25, 2023 by Kirk W
repair a typo

RV_ · February 26, 2023

On 2/24/2023 at 7:34 PM, kb0zke said:

Before we decided to become full-time RV'ers we started looking at communities where we might want to retire. Jo Ann and I made up lists of what was important to each of us, then we discussed our lists to make one list. Then we started looking at various communities around the country. If we had found one that completely suited us we probably never would have purchased an RV.

Yes, the day will come when we need to hang up the keys and live a less mobile life. While much of our family is concentrated in one area, we're not greatly impressed with that - now. That may change as we age and more frequent trips to doctors and hospitals become part of our lives. For now, though, we like to keep the tires inflated so we can go elsewhere whenever we want.

David, yep you guys know the feeling, there is no perfect place to move so we need to find the best compromises. You've found yours and that was ours too for seven years of full-time RVing. We like our neighborhood here and love the views but even though I taught at the USAF academy back in 78-81 it is nothing like it was then. I don't remember wildfire smoke then and after my pulmonary embolisms in both lungs lower altitude would be better. So we are just looking for the best, not perfect, compromises for us.

We are in the making up list stages now again and finding pretty much what you have - it is all about compromise.

I do miss moving at will as you mention too and meeting America one person at a time. There are still a majority of wonderful people out there. Looking at Europe again too.

You know it's a real testament to our freewheeling spirit as RVrs that we have too many choices here in the US. Lots of folks for whatever reason don't have the choices most of us here have.

I am being proactive since I have too much stuff again and have begun my purging/selling/trading hoping to find the right place about when we are down to our the minimum basics.

We paid movers to move too much stuff and they broke a lot of stuff and lost a ladder and destroyed some furniture.

So this time, as I told my son yesterday who is in Germany, we are going to make his job as estate executor much easier.

And other than some clothes and electronics we learned it would be better to just buy all new! Furniture today costs less than movers across country. So we will likely pare down to what we can haul in one box truck ourselves.

Lynda does not want to go back on the road and I'm not looking for a part-time RV until we settle in a new place.

Thanks for chiming in and . . .

Safe Travels!

Edited February 26, 2023 by RV_

RV_ · February 26, 2023

On 2/24/2023 at 8:26 PM, Vladimir said:

It is my PROFESSIONAL opinion.

You can always go look for a second opinion.

I did not know you are a professional realtor! I did not ask for your opinion, and was sharing tools I found useful, but you know that. Sorry I can't participate in your sharpshooting. Life is short. And we are forming up another adventure. I wish you a long drama free life.😏

RV_ · February 26, 2023

On 2/25/2023 at 6:13 AM, Kirk W said:

While there are many reasons that people choose to live one place or to avoid another, eventually most of us find it important to be near our children or other family. We were fortunate in that 2 of our sons have chosen to settle in the state of our preference, even though we moved from the state where they grew up. As the years pass proximity to them has begun to grow in importance. Job related factors tend to decline in importance, while health and medical issues become more important. It has been amazing to me the number of things my parents talked about in their declining years that were forgotten, but now incidents in my life trigger those memories. The son who gave us the most grief in his teen years is now our most reliable helper! A neighbor that celebrated his one hundredth birthday last month told me that one of the best things about it was that he has outlived all of his former enemies! Getting old my not be all fun, but it certainly beats the only alternative. 😏

I'm glad you are happy with your choices Kirk. Live well. We certainly will.

Kirk W · March 1, 2023

For some updated information, listed by state, check this out from USa Facts:

How do state tax burdens stack up?

RV_ · March 5, 2023

Wow on topic. I like your link but since I have been using it for a while I'll stick with mine. At least it is on topic. Thanks for the link I signed up for the newsletter.