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bludotinc.com What is it, Old Goat asks


phoenix2013

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Very interesting, but only if you have hydraulic brakes on your fifth.

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Go to their website and learn about this fantastic air over hydraulic braking system. Instantaneous, proportional, no need for stinkn' brake controller, driven by the same semi system that stops tractor trailers.

The Old Goat did the first conversion and installation on his rig almost 20 years ago.

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Since he got to be good at it, he did bunch of these conversions on other RVs (for friends). Few RV makers will install it in new rigs, but most, being ignorant. will try to convince you that there is something wrong with you. Here's a picture of factory installation on a SpaceCraft.

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Two reasons I started this thread, newbies might appreciate further discussion about it's benefits and installation tips and if you are following my shed building thread you know I am getting rid of "treasures". Guess what I found? A brand new pair of these!

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Pay for shipping and they are yours.

 

 

Edited by phoenix2013
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I put BluDot on our Newmar years ago.  Holy cow!!! There's no going back.

Hardest part was deciding where to mount the tank.  I put it under the genny, where the spare tire used to live.  I still haven't decided where to mount that spare, so it lives back in the garage area for now.

Last spring I ditched the red/blue coiled hoses in favor of straight lines.  Far neater look and no more tangling.

About a year ago, Larry Wenning did a nice write-up of how he installed the BluDot while leaving the electric pump in place.  That way someone without an air truck can move his trailer.

KW T-680, POPEMOBILE
Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN
Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row
Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer.
contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net

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2 hours ago, rickeieio said:

About a year ago, Larry Wenning did a nice write-up of how he installed the BluDot while leaving the electric pump in place.  That way someone without an air truck can move his trailer.

Dont know this person but would like to learn about the change.  Where can I find it?

Marcel

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Thanks for posting that, Rick.  

2 hours ago, rpsinc said:

Dont know this person but would like to learn about the change.  Where can I find it?

Please message me if you would like any further details.  The BlueDOT system is great and works wonderful, but the "Kit" is not complete and requires some amount of fabrication and customization.

Warren (WIP) was my inspiration.  I saw his setup at the national back in '21 and was motivated to follow his lead.  He sent me some of his details to the installation and I sort of copied his system, tailored to my rig.

I was very happy because almost right away I needed to switch back to electric over hydraulic when my HDT went down for the count last summer due to being struck by lightning.  Once winter breaks here, it will be switched back and ready to roll and stop on air-power.

Edited by Av8r3400
Spelling edits...

Av8r3400
2012 Volvo VNL 730 D13 iShift & 2021 Grand Design Momentum 397TH

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I'd rather die trying to live - Than live trying not to die.   -Leonard Perry

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I see the "kit" now comes with a regulator and some other bits not included with ours.  My guess is that's to fine tune the brake action?  

When I ordered ours, I was asked about the brakes and axles, and number of same, so that the air chamber/master cylinder would be of the correct displacement for proper braking.

KW T-680, POPEMOBILE
Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN
Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row
Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer.
contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net

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13 hours ago, aknavy said:

Out of curiosity, has anyone had the BluDot and the Tuson DirectLink to compare the two's performance?

DirecLink is the top of the line controller for electric and electric over hydraulic brakes. It gets its information for what to do from the truck computer. Their software is proprietary but I am guessing the algorithm looks at the truck speed and then at the rate of change in that speed when you start braking. The brake light tells it that you are indeed braking so go and apply what you calculated for electric current to the electric brakes. Small amount of current if the change in speed is small, large if it's rapid. Computers are very fast, swinging pendulums not so much. In hydraulic application it's the varying amount of digital signal going to the pump. However the pump introduces another fly in the ointment, it's not instantaneous. Max pressure in hydraulic brakes is 1,500 psi, you don't need anything close to that for most application but remember, there is this 12VDC motor in the pump trying to build this pressure from zero to whatever. The pumps have gotten a lot better but originally there was upwards of 1 second delay between applying brakes and the braking action in the RV.

Hydraulic brakes, whether shoes or disks are better than the shoes activated by magnetic puck hanging on the stick trying to stick to a steel plate which could be full of rust sitting unused. I don't care to argue otherwise.

So the beauty of BluDot is? You can only use it with hydraulic brakes, plus number one. Second, it's instantaneous the air pressure going to your air brakes is pushing that hydraulic cylinder on your trailer brakes, at the same time, same intensity.

The hydraulic brakes on RVs are typically disks which require high hydraulic pressure (the reason for the pump delay). On my rig I had three axles with six hydraulic shoe brakes (yes they do make them, dexter.com), very low hydraulic pressure and low volume to activate.

8McTxjQl.jpg  

These are about $900 a piece these days, but combined with bludot you are in the braking heaven.

Now that you know this, it answers another question you might have. Why these options for BluDot when you order the kit? They have high pressure, low pressure option (disks, shoes). High volume, low volume, primarily for disks. More axles more fluid needed for the the disks, even more fluid needed with Dexter disks which squeeze pucks from both sides.  

Edited by phoenix2013
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3 hours ago, phoenix2013 said:

DirecLink is the top of the line controller for electric and electric over hydraulic brakes. It gets its information for what to do from the truck computer. Their software is proprietary but I am guessing the algorithm looks at the truck speed and then at the rate of change in that speed when you start braking. The brake light tells it that you are indeed braking so go and apply what you calculated for electric current to the electric brakes. Small amount of current if the change in speed is small, large if it's rapid. Computers are very fast, swinging pendulums not so much. In hydraulic application it's the varying amount of digital signal going to the pump. However the pump introduces another fly in the ointment, it's not instantaneous. Max pressure in hydraulic brakes is 1,500 psi, you don't need anything close to that for most application but remember, there is this 12VDC motor in the pump trying to build this pressure from zero to whatever. The pumps have gotten a lot better but originally there was upwards of 1 second delay between applying brakes and the braking action in the RV.

Hydraulic brakes, whether shoes or disks are better than the shoes activated by magnetic puck hanging on the stick trying to stick to a steel plate which could be full of rust sitting unused. I don't care to argue otherwise.

So the beauty of BluDot is? You can only use it with hydraulic brakes, plus number one. Second, it's instantaneous the air pressure going to your air brakes is pushing that hydraulic cylinder on your trailer brakes, at the same time, same intensity.

The hydraulic brakes on RVs are typically disks which require high hydraulic pressure (the reason for the pump delay). On my rig I had three axles with six hydraulic shoe brakes (yes they do make them, dexter.com), very low hydraulic pressure and low volume to activate.

8McTxjQl.jpg  

These are about $900 a piece these days, but combined with bludot you are in the braking heaven.

Now that you know this, it answers another question you might have. Why these options for BluDot when you order the kit? They have high pressure, low pressure option (disks, shoes). High volume, low volume, primarily for disks. More axles more fluid needed for the the disks, even more fluid needed with Dexter disks which squeeze pucks from both sides.  

Nice, thorough response.  Appreciate it!  I'm currently using the Tuson with electric over hydraulic disc brakes, and they work pretty good.    Not too much lag when pushing the brakes and they perform, especially at highway speeds.  The braking at lower speeds is less aggressive, which is a mixed blessing.  I think most emergency stops tend to happen in town at the lower speeds.

2001 VNL 660

2018 DRV Fullhouse JX450

2018 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon

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22 hours ago, aknavy said:

Out of curiosity, has anyone had the BluDot and the Tuson DirectLink to compare the two's performance?

I have.  I will repeat the sentiment of the previous repliy by the esteemed "Old Goat".

Hands down there is no comparison.  While the DirectLink system is one of the best, the control and proportionality of the air system is of no comparison.

Edited by Av8r3400

Av8r3400
2012 Volvo VNL 730 D13 iShift & 2021 Grand Design Momentum 397TH

TEq81qV.jpg

I'd rather die trying to live - Than live trying not to die.   -Leonard Perry

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7 hours ago, aknavy said:

Nice, thorough response.  Appreciate it!  I'm currently using the Tuson with electric over hydraulic disc brakes, and they work pretty good.    Not too much lag when pushing the brakes and they perform, especially at highway speeds.  The braking at lower speeds is less aggressive, which is a mixed blessing.  I think most emergency stops tend to happen in town at the lower speeds.

Do you have Tuson pump or other maker? Tuson started originally as electric over hydraulic system selling their controller and their pump. Must have realized that this market is miniscule compared to straight electric, so they abandoned the pump manufacture.

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Larry,

Interesting (and admirable) that you are set up for both.  I now have the Tuson and like it a lot.  I had a Maxbrake prior but notice the Tuson is much more responsive although I still have the plumbing and Maxbrake stored in the truck if the Tuson were to fail.  Rickeieio have had a discussion at length about BluDot and although a great system, if he were to break down, I couldn’t tow him with brakes.  By the same token he can’t tow me.  The ability to do both is very beneficial IMHO opinion if camping with a group frequently.  So kudos to you and maybe you can convince Rick to spend his money to setup for both so he can tow me when we’re camping together. 😂😂

Edited by SuiteSuccess

2006 Volvo 780 "Hoss" Volvo D12, 465hp, 1650 ft/lbs tq., ultrashift

Bed Build by "JW Morgan's Custom Welding"

2017 DRV 39DBRS3

2013 Smart Passion Coupe "Itty Bitty"

 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first!"

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13 hours ago, phoenix2013 said:

Do you have Tuson pump or other maker? Tuson started originally as electric over hydraulic system selling their controller and their pump. Must have realized that this market is miniscule compared to straight electric, so they abandoned the pump manufacture.

I have the Kodiak pump/controller/etc.

2001 VNL 660

2018 DRV Fullhouse JX450

2018 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon

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I installed air over hydraulic when I upgraded my brakes to hydraulic disc. Wow what a difference. zero lag. instant braking with proper braking power with truck pedal. 

2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1

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3 hours ago, SuiteSuccess said:

Larry,

Interesting (and admirable) that you are set up for both.  I now have the Tuson and like it a lot.  I had a Maxbrake prior but notice the Tuson is much more responsive although I still have the plumbing and Maxbrake stored in the truck if the Tuson were to fail.  Rickeieio have had a discussion at length about BluDot and although a great system, if he were to break down, I couldn’t tow him with brakes.  By the same token he can’t tow me.  The ability to do both is very beneficial IMHO opinion if camping with a group frequently.  So kudos to you and maybe you can convince Rick to spend his money to setup for both so he can tow me when we’re camping together. 😂😂

We have taken the same path. I had the Maxbrake in mine when I got it, and it was ok.  I upgraded to the DirectLink, and have the Maxbrake in one of the cabinets, just in case.  I think it would take all of five minutes to switch it back.

 

2001 VNL 660

2018 DRV Fullhouse JX450

2018 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon

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12 hours ago, SuiteSuccess said:

convince Rick to spend his money to setup for both so he can tow me

It'd be cheaper to chip  in on your towing insurance.😁

Seriously, I still have the HydroStar system sitting on my work bench.  I may just put it back in and plumb it as per Larry.

But I doubt I'll buy a controller to help out those who are too tight to buy into a real system.🤣

KW T-680, POPEMOBILE
Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN
Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row
Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer.
contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net

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All of the conversions I made to BluDot for "friends" and clients were on trailers which already had pump driven electric over hydraulic systems. This was in the pre-DirecLink days. Days of slow hydraulic pumps and crappy controllers to drive them. I would simply yank the pump out install the BluDot and tell the client, "put the pump on the shelf someplace, when you sell the trailer years from now put the crap back in. In the meantime enjoy real brakes and braking".

Looking at Larry's video, if I was that smart back then, I would have done what he did with a three way valve. No need to get rid of the pump, it does no harm shut off.

Having "cheap" option of a friend towing you is a bit of a stretch. If you are in a big Dudu, need to be towed and hire a "real" towing company, they will not care what kind of brakes you have, or any. They'll put a light bar on the bumper, hook it up and off they go.

Edited by phoenix2013
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