2023 ban on older trucks in California question

[runaway parents]

With the new ban on older trucks in California. Are older trucks that are registered out of state  allowed in California? How does this if any effect privately owned RV haulers?

[Darryl&Rita]

Because it's new, it really needs some time to settle out. Haven't heard any reports yet of tourist rigs being affected, but commercial rigs have been voluntarily self-restricting for awhile already.

[runaway parents]

Yeah sure going to be interesting to see how this all shakes out

[mike5511]

There are 10s of thousands of older diesels in RVs and other NON-commercial vehicles in California. They can't ban them all. But, they can, and apparently are, going to do just that in the commercial industry. We shall see.

 

[sandsys]

4 minutes ago, mike5511 said:

They can't ban them all. 

Why would you think that?  

Linda

[2gypsies]

1 hour ago, sandsys said:

Why would you think that?  

Linda

https://dieselemissionsservice.com/2021/11/12/diesel-pickups-motorhomes-and-carb/

[ddm502001]

CA Cannot 'Ban' the entry of Personal Diesel Machines, the state has ZERO right to stop visitors and US Citizens from entering.  They cease sales of Fuels and likely no one will ever enter that uses a Petroleum engine ever again but then that is their bad luck as Tourism always has been major revenue and will slow to a trickle.  Perhaps as Newsum gets a little further along someone will challenge and push his itinerant butt out just for being stupid.

As to HDT diesels, as is my own, they can limit time in state, that has been evolving for awhile.  Will see where it ends up.

[ddm502001]

This more or less fits here, as to EPA and other as CARB environmental departments getting heavy handed.

I just flashed off two letters to my State Senator as to the ineffectiveness and worthlessness of the EPA Mandated devices and equipment on all too many variations on a theme for both Gas and Diesel engines.  Primary law of Chemistry, Human cannot Create nor Destroy elemental materials, Can Combine, separate and otherwise reduce to component parts but NOT remove a compound or elemental material in general, this is the primary Lie of the EPA.  Catalytic Conversion cannot CHANGE the base material, there is no alchemy applicable, can be compounded to a different end result is about all.  This in essence is a Fundamental Physical Law that CANNOT be broken.

To which a Selective Catalytic Conversion or DOC unit on a diesel can only change the release, NOT remove it, the base compounds and basic elemental materials will remain intact on exit which is an Emissions release of some type.  The devices required today are designed for 90% Engine Duty Cycle at peak hp and torque as in Dynamometer loaded.  Placed on a machine frame that equates to fully laden miles 90% of the time which is NOT in any one's imagination practical nor feasible, except to EPA people.  Vocational Enterprizes as Rock or materials haulers, local delivery agencies, RV and Personal machine users will NOT EVER achieve greater than 50% duty cycle, EVER.  The latter likely not ever 20% duty cycle to effectively purpose those devices currently installed.  Thus prominent, Expensive and repetitive failures of Electronic mechanisms will occur.  DPF units will choke as do not achieve regenerative heat level, performing routine regenerations do nothing more than consume excess fuel without saturating the mechanism long enough to fulfill that  regeneration purpose.  DOCs which are the heat creation mechanism cannot achieve the design basis as do not also ever achieve that heat load long enough to perform the function again at a fuel and maintenance expense unduly applied to a low power range use.  Diesel Particulate Filters reduce engine efficiency as they choke up, uses more fuel so chokes even faster.  As to regen sitting at a fast idle making the SCR/DOC heat to regen that DPF the system is consuming Urea to convert to Ammonia to produce a Catalytic Response of Heat to "Consume" (Which it is NOT) the Particulates in that DPF.  In the process it digests them to as small as potentially possible and releases the FINER particulates to atmosphere, It is NOT EVER fully "Consumed".  Carbon can only be reduced to its smallest atomic value as a ELEMENTAL Material, or Fine Ash, IE Particulate.  Finer particulate is ever more deadly to humans with lung diseases as it penetrates DEEPER into those lungs.  Science has Laws that CANNOT be physically Broken, this is one of those.  This is what I noted to my Senator.

 

Dave

I do not care what anyone has noted to you, mansplained to you as a Engine Company rep, these facts are very basic and economically cumbersome upon those individuals in the aforementioned uses of these machines.

[rickeieio]

Where did you come up with the notion catalytic converters were intended to create or destroy elements?  They just "convert" the compounds to something less noxious.  So instead of NOx we get "N" and O2.

Duty cycle....... what if some clever company figured out how to build a power plant where a small engine could run a generator (100% duty cycle) and use that stored energy to power, say a passenger car or locomotive, or anything between.  Oh, Toyota did that some time back.

 

[ddm502001]

Got that from the Engineer that helped develop it for Cat, he lives out by us currently as he Remote Works.  ALL the end results of SCR or DOC is to produce heat by that function of creating N and supposedly 0 from Nitrous oxides, HOWEVER he noted Nitrogen Oxide is the smaller portion leaving Nitrogen Dioxides that do not respond the same, where EPA is pushing now to ADD More crap to reduce that release.  The DPF is supposed to collect ALL the particulate from the exhaust stream to be "CONSUMED" which it does not do during Regenerations or when the SCR/DOC is in full cycle.  He stated was one of the more serious after effects of After Treatment equipment that DOES NOT function as designed.  The ONLY time a SCR/DOC achieves what it was designed to do is at 90% Full HP delivery as he called it 'Duty Cycle'.  Cannot achieve the heat required of the action even spraying DEF into the stream so add fuel to generate more heat, self defeating equipment unless on a Generation Station engine or in a truck that is loaded fully greater than 90% of the time.  Empty, Bobtailing, light loads and the systems fail to produce desired effect.

 

The term Destroyed or Consumed is used by EPA grunts as to the elimination of the materials in the DPF during a Regen, it CANNOT by laws of materials properties.  The current program for Choked DPF units is to exchange them for lab regenerated units, those are cooked in a Natural Gas Fired heat stream to remove the deposited materials from the filtering media.  That Ash is then bagged an sent to landfill.  He noted CAT regenerates more assemblies in house as regenerations in the field do not work than they ever imagined would.  Tier IV is on their offroad machines, he doubts they will ever return to road power for trucks.

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by ddm502001

[Steve from SoCal]

I am concerned about this law, I have a house in California that has a car and household items I need to get with my 2004 truck and drop frame van trailer.     While my truck is registered as an RV in Kansas it is still a 2004 semi tractor, Holland hitch and all.

 

The route I take is I-40/I-15 where the scales are far from the border but the ag stop at the Colorado river may have smog cops?

 

Any real time info on entry would be helpful,

 

Steve

 

[ddm502001]

Neighbor that drives OTR Distance cannot enter CA, has to await his loads at AZ or NV border in swap yards.  He noted there are allowances unless CA has changed the laws, for Out of State NON Commercial as in RV Licensed machines, cannot use a RV plated truck to haul as a True Semi Truck as are skirting Weight restrictive and fees licensing laws.  RV does not pay those fees.  You can only tow RV.

My KW is registered Truck not RV, will have weight rated plates so I can perform as you note yet is not legal in CA commercially either.

Dave

[porky69]

From what I read there are exemption for low mile per year (something like 10,000miles/yr) users and a few other special circumstances ...

[ddm502001]

This just out, and to this, Let the Lawsuits Begin.  California is banning any and EVERY pre 2010 truck from their state.  Guess it is time to cease purchasing anything from CA make every attempt to stop dealing ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM With CA.

California bans 230,000 trucks -- what's next? | Overdrive (overdriveonline.com)

Fines will be levied for use of a Pre 2010 machine in the state that emits at a level THEY determine a hazard to someone, anyone.  And Does NOT matter if Not Registered in CA, Is REQUIRED the machines are established as set up under CA Regs.

[mike5511]

On 1/4/2023 at 3:33 PM, sandsys said:

Why would you think that?  

Linda

I would think even the crazy natives out there wouldn't stand for that! Can you imagine how many vehicles that will be?

On 1/6/2023 at 6:14 PM, ddm502001 said:

This just out, and to this, Let the Lawsuits Begin.  California is banning any and EVERY pre 2010 truck from their state.  Guess it is time to cease purchasing anything from CA make every attempt to stop dealing ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM With CA.

California bans 230,000 trucks -- what's next? | Overdrive (overdriveonline.com)

Fines will be levied for use of a Pre 2010 machine in the state that emits at a level THEY determine a hazard to someone, anyone.  And Does NOT matter if Not Registered in CA, Is REQUIRED the machines are established as set up under CA Regs.

"every truck"...........so RVs are okay. Define a truck.

[usbusin]

I do believe this is for COMMERCIAL trucks.  Maybe Chad will chime in. 

[pjstough]

Most of many people's worst problems never occur.

[rickeieio]

I don't know all the details of California's emission laws, but I can tell you that we sold our 2001 Volvo to a fellow in California, who wanted it because it was both pre-emissions, and had a motorhome title.

The laws banning pre 2010 commercial trucks are nothing new.  Like so many things on the interweb, someone discovers something and it's a big deal all over again.  How many times have you had someone say, "Did you know that most rv's have the same compartment keys?"

 

[runaway parents]

2 hours ago, rickeieio said:

I don't know all the details of California's emission laws, but I can tell you that we sold our 2001 Volvo to a fellow in California, who wanted it because it was both pre-emissions, and had a motorhome title.

The laws banning pre 2010 commercial trucks are nothing new.  Like so many things on the interweb, someone discovers something and it's a big deal all over again.  How many times have you had someone say, "Did you know that most rv's have the same compartment keys?"

 

 Same  Is compartment Key  ?  That's news to me. Hahaha

[Chad Heiser]

9 hours ago, usbusin said:

I do believe this is for COMMERCIAL trucks.  Maybe Chad will chime in. 

I was aware of the law changes coming, but I haven’t actually done any research to see how it is going to be applied.  California has been banning older model pre emissions commercial vehicles for years, so that is not new.  They have banned gas powered small engines for things like lawn mowers and generators as well.  That ban just prevents the sale of those items, not the use (at least for now when the law goes into affect).  I am concerned every year my registration comes due on my 2000 model year Kenworth T2000.  I wonder is this the year they choose to not allow me to renew it?  So far though, they always take my money and send me new stickers.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Chad Heiser

[ddm502001]

Nephews Buddies are still CaHP, he stated from those guys there are far and away NOT enough bodies to enforce this, is no way they can stop every RV, Toter, Horse or Livestock hauler from Out State, only those machines registered in CA as to being Diesel powered and required of the regulations that operate greater than 1000miles IN State will be affected.  So Multiple Double standards do exist, just depends on what inspection idiot decides to try to force feed someone a fine.

 

Dave

[usbusin]

Are you saying Private registered RV's are not exempt?

[docj]

49 minutes ago, usbusin said:

Are you saying Private registered RV's are not exempt?

This article is a couple of years old, but it addresses this issue and states that non-commercial RVs re exempt which is what I've been reading for years on this subject.

https://www.rvtravel.com/will-californias-diesel-law-affect-you-as-an-rver/#:~:text=that operate in California.” Broken,than 2010 is likewise grounded.

Edited January 23, 2023 by docj

[runaway parents]

  So the bottom line is can I or can't I take my truck into California ?  Yes or no ? it's a 2008   780 Volvo .That is licensed as A  RV in Washington State. Who would a person call in California That would confirm all  Of this? CHP    DMV   DOL     DNR  USFS  IRS NCIS ?I'm so 😕 

[mike5511]

5 hours ago, runaway parents said:

  So the bottom line is can I or can't I take my truck into California ?  Yes or no ? it's a 2008   780 Volvo .That is licensed as A  RV in Washington State. Who would a person call in California That would confirm all  Of this? CHP    DMV   DOL     DNR  USFS  IRS NCIS ?I'm so 😕 

For, oh I don't know, the thousandth time maybe? YES! If you are illegally licensed in your domicile state, you can travel anywhere in America legally! What a CONCEPT huh? NOW.....even though our trucks may look like COMMERCIAL vehicles, they are NOT! Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV) DOT rules DO NOT APPLY. NOW, if you want your big ol' truck to be a CMV, you are free to do that, but as long as you are licensed as a RECREATIONAL VEHICLE (RV) you are exempt from the CMV rules and regulations. This isn't hard to understand folks!!!! GO RVing, be HAPPY! Don't worry!