Problems, fights and camp pirates at campsites

[slackercruster]

 

Anyone have issues at campsites?

 

Tensions also escalated over reserved campsites, with some recreationists wrongly claiming already-reserved sites by tearing off the reservation tags and replacing them with their own, prompting the nickname “campsite pirates.” The original parties end up angry and confused when they arrive to find their campsite occupied. The practice isn’t common, but it’s happening more than it used to, Carroll said.

“In the past, it was extremely rare,” he said. “Have there been disputes? Yeah, you know that happened previously. But like I said, not on the scale that we saw this year.”

Crowded Oregon campsites see fights, ‘camp pirates’ - oregonlive.com

 

 

[Kirk W]

Quote

 Earlier this year, the Oregon Parks and Recreation Department said it would seek legislation to give rangers added protection because of the increasing level of assaults and harassment targeting rangers.

This quote remindes me of something that I discouvered when we were volunteers for the Oregon State parks. The state park rangers have no arrest authority at all but must call a local law enforcement agency if visitors do not comply with ranger directives. All of the other state parks that we have volunteered in had some LEO rangers, as do most federal parks with the exception of the COE.

[Lou Schneider]

Nomadic Fanatic is a prolific YouTuber who's a fulltimer RVer.  He usually boondocks while on his tours and about a month ago he posted about how a bunch of rowdies pulled in next to him while he was boondocking on the Oregon coast, drinking and playing loud music.  One guy had a dirt bike and started tearing up the area.  Rather than confront them, Eric packed up and left.  A couple of days later he learned the guy with the dirt bike was killed when the bike left the trail at high speed and collided with a tree.

[TXiceman]

1 hour ago, Lou Schneider said:

  A couple of days later he learned the guy with the dirt bike was killed when the bike left the trail at high speed and collided with a tree.

It all goes back to the old saying....You play stupid games you get stupid prizes...

Ken

[TXiceman]

16 hours ago, Kirk W said:

This quote reminds me of something that I discovered when we were volunteers for the Oregon State parks. The state park rangers have no arrest authority at all but must call a local law enforcement agency if visitors do not comply with ranger directives. All of the other state parks that we have volunteered in had some LEO rangers, as do most federal parks with the exception of the COE.

The state and NWR's where we volunteered the LEO rangers were either state or federal officers.  It surprised some people when they got a ticket, and the vehicle plainly was labeled as "State Police" or Federal Game Warden

One state park in Texas, while we were at the office, a lady called in and reported that she had received a speeding ticket in the park and wanted to know if she had to pay the ticket.  She did not feel that they had the authority to issue speeding tickets.  When we told the Park Peace Officer, he just laughed.  He said normally, he would have just given her a verbal warning, but she had too much mouth and attitude and talked herself into a citation for the full amount over the posted limit.

Some people just don't understand or care.

Ken

[Payroll Person]

I can attest. Federal parks have a federal jail in them. Well, at least one housed a young and dumb person who did not bother clearing up a failure to pay ticket which meant “their” 😀 DL was not valid.

On the other hand, the garage did not care I rode my MC out once I posted bail. I suspect they may check DL before leaving with technology being better.

Same park a couple of years ago, a ranger helped my son park a disabled vehicle and left a note on it not to tow it. The kids were able to take their back country hike, and get it towed home after. Kindness goes far. 

[Kirk W]

3 hours ago, TXiceman said:

The state and NWR's where we volunteered the LEO rangers were either state or federal officers.

From the USFWS website" Federal wildlife officers are law enforcement professionals charged with protecting natural resources and public safety across the National Wildlife Refuge System.

The USFWS LEO's are specially designated and trained officers and only occasionally is one of the other rangers also an LEO. The same is true for the NPS.  I looked at the websites for the FS and BLM and both of them also have specific LEO's. It was that way with the state parks where we have spent time also, with the exception of OR. We have volunteered in 3 different OR parks and in each of those the park rangers had no arrest powers but had to call a local agency for that type of support and all 3 were patroled by an occasional HP officer as well as the local sheriff's officers. We have volunteered many times with the COE and they have no LEO positions because they are part of the Army and our constitution prohibits Army arresting of citizens except in times of martial law. For that reason they usually have an arrangement with a local law enforcement agency to patrol there. At Lake Lavon in TX it was the Wyle City Police, at Lake Burleson TX it was the Burleson PD, and at Council Grove Lake in KS it was the Morris Co. Sheriff.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Kirk W

[Ray,IN]

 I replied to your exact post on irv2.com. My reply is the same for here.

 

Edited September 29, 2022 by Ray,IN

[Kirk W]

11 hours ago, Ray,IN said:

I replied to your exact post on irv2.com. My reply is the same for here.

Not sure who you refer to but if me, I have not been on IRV2 for more than a year. 

[Ray,IN]

27 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

Not sure who you refer to but if me, I have not been on IRV2 for more than a year. 

Nooo not you Kirk; the original post about OR CG violence by slackcruster. It is also on irv2.com and to me the link just sounds, well I stop with that.

 

[Kirk W]

8 minutes ago, Ray,IN said:

Nooo not you Kirk; the original post about OR CG violence

😉  Understand.   

[bigjim]

I was surprised to find out the actual LEO's can ticket traffic offense even outside the parks or forests on public roads at least in TX and NM it seems. I was doing a ride along at least 3 times with a Forest Service LEO and people were ticketed and in 2 cases they ended up going to jail as they had warrants for "failure to appear" on previous tickets.  The judge don't like it if you ignore at least contacting the court. One guy went to jail for failure to appear on a seat belt ticket.  In Texas the park did not fixate on the busy road outside the park but sometimes they did cite people depending on circumstances. Usually it was related to trying to access the turn onto the park road leading into the park. In  a lot of cases help or warnings were the norm unless they were really stupid and thick headed.

[Kirk W]

2 hours ago, bigjim said:

I was surprised to find out the actual LEO's can ticket traffic offense even outside the parks or forests on public roads at least in TX and NM it seems.

I am not surprised about TX as I know a TX Game Warden and they are often sent in to natural disaster areas to supplement the other agencies with enforcement. When we lived in WY I used to make an occasional service call at the state LEO acadamy and discovered that all commissioned law enforcement officers of that state attend the same acadamy. When we hosted in KS the park was on both sides of the lake and the park LEO's did the traffic enforcement on the roads between the two parts and often responded as the back-up for both sheriff's officers and for HP. I was told that they too are commissioned by the state as state law enforcement no matter what state agency the work for. I suspect that is true in most states but it seems that not all states have state park rangers who are LEO. I was with one of the KS Park Ranger LEO's when he gave a person a DUI and had the car towed to the impound lot that was almost 30 miles away. He was going to give the fellow a warning and escort him back to his campsite where he had friends until the offender laughed at him and told him to get hosed, "you are just a park ranger." A sheriff's officer met us at the park gate and took the man to jail.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Kirk W

[2gypsies]

Here's the breakdown of park rangers in Yellowstone.  They have full jurisdiction in the park but also give help outside the park.

We volunteered at Sleeping Bear Dunes Nat'l Lakeshore, MI and Rocky Mtn. NP & both covered areas outside the parks, if needed.

Officers once talked to us about the amount of arrests and investigations done in the park. It was staggering - just like a big city. There are murders, suicides, burglaries, domestic arguments, etc.

They are full law enforcement officers & receive the same training as those outside the parks.

https://secretyellowstone.com/ynp-operations/law-enforcement/

[TCW]

On 9/28/2022 at 12:12 PM, Kirk W said:

We have volunteered many times with the COE and they have no LEO positions because they are part of the Army and our constitution prohibits Army arresting of citizens except in times of martial law.

The Posse Comitatus Act (18 U.S.C. § 1385) and its' amendments are what prohibit the military from enforcing laws on civilians. DOD agencies have employed civilian law enforcement officers for many years. Great discretion is given to the agencies and base commanders.  Some military bases use civilian LEOs and the military police to enforce the applicable regulations. Others depend on local LEOs to enforce state and local laws. Examples I am aware of are Fort Sill which has armed civilian game wardens with arrest powers as do the Quantico Marine Base and the Naval Air Engineering Center Lakehurst. The Philadelphia Naval Base has a civilian police force.

2 hours ago, 2gypsies said:

Officers once talked to us about the amount of arrests and investigations done in the park. It was staggering - just like a big city. There are murders, suicides, burglaries, domestic arguments, etc.

They are full law enforcement officers & receive the same training as those outside the parks.

Permanent employees that serve as National Park Law Enforcement Rangers attend the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center as do Forest Service, BLM and USFWS LEOs. Each agency also provides agency specific training and recertification training. Officers enforcing state laws outside their official federal jurisdictions receive additional training in accordance with the support agreements between the agencies involved.

Edited September 29, 2022 by TCW

[bigjim]

I know some agencys have reciprocal agreements with other law enforcement entities. It can be a problem sometimes as they are not familiar with the laws for the area they are reciprocating in so to speak. A good friend of mine who is an FS employee had a wood permit legally and was gathering 100% legally off duty and a county cop answered  a call about someone stealing wood. He nearly went to jail as the cop would not listen or look at the properly display permit. My friend was allowed to leave at least. I guess the cop believed the 911 from the dispatcher and was not interested in any proper investigation of facts. Sad. Happens sometimes but the by and large most cops do what is right.

[dblr]

In our tiny state of Delaware, the park rangers for the state park system are considered to be as equal to any law enforcement officer, they even patrol the roads surrounding the parks for speed enforcement as well as other things as there is parking for hunting and fishing as well. 

[gypsydan]

I have not run into this situation, as a Boondock.What would be of interest to me, though, how many of these “rowdies“ are weekenders or are new full-time RVers on the road because of having lost their housing or job, for whatever reason, And are therefore “forced“ to live on the road.

The subject reminds me of the article I remember reading several years back where some people had parked at a Walmart in Wyoming or Montana and, due to their actions, got into a gun fight when the police were called. 

[Kirk W]

If you put your pointer on slackercruster's avatar you will see that he made that post back in September and has never been back. He must have either been promoting the site in his link or trying to stir things up here. 

[RV_]

On 12/15/2022 at 6:41 PM, Kirk W said:

If you put your pointer on slackercruster's avatar you will see that he made that post back in September and has never been back. He must have either been promoting the site in his link or trying to stir things up here. 

Kirk, the site was "The Oregonian" a leading Oregon newspaper. The Oregonian mission about us

Unless you are a Park Ranger you would not know how often people are tearing off reservation tags and claiming the spot for themselves. I say it is good info for anyone going to that county's park campgrounds.

It was an article about what is happening there. I tend to go with responsible papers on non-partisan journalism. I am not defending Slackercruster for posting an article that is RV centric and might be of interest to us here. But I do tend to believe local reporting over opinions from afar.

"He must have either been promoting the site in his link or trying to stir things up here."

You seem to be shooting the messenger. Are you? Why impugn the integrity of members here?

If you read the article it was Associated Press and it was quoting Carroll, an official with Oregon county parks and recreation, not hearsay.

"Brian Carroll with Linn County Parks and Recreation said park rangers have had to play mediator this summer as would-be campers argue over first-come, first-served campsites at Sunnyside County Park, the Statesman-Journal reported Friday.

“People were literally fighting over campsites,” said Carroll. “What we experienced this year was certainly a general level of increased frustration and anxiety of people not being able to get their campsite. There seems to be less general common courtesy going on.”

 

Tensions also escalated over reserved campsites, with some recreationists wrongly claiming already-reserved sites by tearing off the reservation tags and replacing them with their own, prompting the nickname “campsite pirates.” The original parties end up angry and confused when they arrive to find their campsite occupied. The practice isn’t common, but it’s happening more than it used to, Carroll said.

 

“In the past, it was extremely rare,” he said. “Have there been disputes? Yeah, you know that happened previously. But like I said, not on the scale that we saw this year.”

 That article is linked in the OP, but I'll put it here again: https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2022/09/crowded-oregon-campsites-see-fights-camp-pirates.html

Did anyone actually read the article that disagreed with the facts reported. Or show reporting from Oregon that disputes the report. No one wants to hear about more a lack of courtesy in Oregon campgrounds or anywhere.

 

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by RV_